winning without claiming indie requires good threadplay to stay alive from both town and mafia. thats how a neutral plays. this makes the indie win much more fun and unexpected.
I will agree to disagree on this in general, but this part I just don't think is right at all. Because it's not about thread play, it's about who you are too and what you can get away with.
Let's say I roll Survivor. I play like Town, but not accurate in my reads. What are the chances I make it to the end of the game? Probably slim. Mafia will usually shoot me thinking I'm a power role making myself look scummy, or town will say because I've been wrong too many times I must be scum power wolfing.
If I play scummy, but not quite scummy enough to be easy to case, I probably get shot later in the game due to power role fears or get lynched too. Same reasons.
I play super townie I get killed with two cycles. Maybe one. I play super scummy I'd get investigated and lynched.
It's not possible. I would have to just coast and barely play the game and skate by as an inactive. When the role essentially asks me to not play, it's not a good role. There is no element of skill there, if I win after that it's luck at best. More likely is I claim Survivor, Town gets rolled and scum happily accept my extra vote at the end of the game.