๐ Satoru vs Ryomen Sukuna
- Thread starter Marimo_420
- Start date
- Tags #go.jo #sukuna smoking that gojoo pack
I don care if Gojo is stronger, I am voting for the king of curses
I was looking through the translation for Sukunaโs page in the databook and hereโs some highlights that answers a few controversies earlier in the thread
(These two QA in the databook seems a little contradictory but Iโll post it anyways)
1. "Golden Era" of Jujutsu is referring to strength, not numbers
Gege confirmed that the Golden Days of Jujutsu wasnโt about numbers but viciousness of the curses. So old era > current era
Both Sukuna and Gojo are strong but the only reason Gojo seemed to get more hype is because compared to all the current fodder sorcerers, he is in a complete different level.
However reminder that Sukuna ruled the Golden Jujutsu Era and he terrified them so much that he already gained the epithet King of Curses before he even became a cursed object. They literally called him the King.
2. Current Sorcerers do not know Sukuna's cursed technique
Current sorcerers only know about Sukuna's slashing technique but they don't know how Sukuna copied Jogo's flames.
So that means they donโt even have Sukunaโs cursed technique well documented and have no idea the extent of Sukunaโs abilities. So there's no reason to believe that Gojo saying he would beat Sukuna is true if he only knows about the slashing technique when thereโs clearly more. Gojo was underestimating Sukuna.
(These two QA in the databook seems a little contradictory but Iโll post it anyways)
1. "Golden Era" of Jujutsu is referring to strength, not numbers
Gege confirmed that the Golden Days of Jujutsu wasnโt about numbers but viciousness of the curses. So old era > current era
Both Sukuna and Gojo are strong but the only reason Gojo seemed to get more hype is because compared to all the current fodder sorcerers, he is in a complete different level.
However reminder that Sukuna ruled the Golden Jujutsu Era and he terrified them so much that he already gained the epithet King of Curses before he even became a cursed object. They literally called him the King.
2. Current Sorcerers do not know Sukuna's cursed technique
Current sorcerers only know about Sukuna's slashing technique but they don't know how Sukuna copied Jogo's flames.
So that means they donโt even have Sukunaโs cursed technique well documented and have no idea the extent of Sukunaโs abilities. So there's no reason to believe that Gojo saying he would beat Sukuna is true if he only knows about the slashing technique when thereโs clearly more. Gojo was underestimating Sukuna.
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D
Okay, after catching up to the manga now, I'm changing my mind on the topic. In my eyes, Sukuna has better portrayal than Gojo and the narrative supports him more. Featswise, Gojo takes it but that's less to do with the fact that he's stronger and more that he has more fights to go off of.
Sukuna's superior portrayal stems from the fact that it is the narrator that has been hyping him. Gojo's hype as "The Strongest" comes from statements from himself and from other characters. Sukuna's hype is coming directly from the narrator. One of the best examples is the "The Honored One" statement.
Sukuna's
This ain't coming from Nanami, Yuji, or Mahito. It comes directly from the narrator, aka, the author.
Gojo's
His version comes from himself. It does not nearly hold as much weight as Sukuna's. Knowing how arrogant and cocky that Gojo is, it's about the equivalent to Doffy saying that Law was no match for Vergo.
It's quite literally Gojo's opinion vs the narrator's opinion. The narrator's opinion is superior.
Another thing that gives Sukuna higher portrayal is his domain.
"The ability to realize one's innate domain without using a barrier is akin to an artist painting a masterpiece not on a canvas, but on air. A truly divine technique."(peep how this is done through a narrator's box) This is undoubtedly tremendous hype of Sukuna. Gege went out of his way to make Malevolent Shrine stand out from the rest of them. He didn't give Infinite Void, Iron Coffin, Self-Embodiment of Perfection, etc. any statement like this. While Gojo, Mahito, and Jogo need a blank canvas to draw their art, Sukuna is doing it straight on thin air and he's drawing masterpieces at that. So objectively looking at a domain battle, Sukuna's should stand on top.
@Light D Lamperouge your point about Gojo calling Jogo weak while Sukuna calls him strong don't hold much weight considering that Sukuna called him pathetic only moments only.
The only thing Sukuna calling Jogo strong shows is that he at end of the fight had more respect for Jogo than Gojo did. It doesn't have anything to do with their powers.
And with your point about Gege calling Gojo the strongest in the manga, it's true he is but under the context. 15 Finger Sukuna, Yuji, Megumi, Yuki, Getou, Yuta, etc. are all currently weaker than Gojo. 20 Finger Sukuna and EoS Megumi and Yuji aren't part of the current manga, that's future stuff so it doesn't really apply to them in my eyes.
Narratively, Sukuna as the main villain right now makes much more sense to be the stronger of the two. He's being set up as the big bad boss to defeat and it wouldn't make any sense if he was weaker than Gojo. I don't think there'd be any point in the story if Sukuna once he gains 20 Fingers just gets defeated by Gojo afterward.
This is also a very good point. Gojo's opinion right now on him being stronger is skewed as he is unaware of Sukuna's full power. If he did then his statement of beating Sukuna would hold weight but right now it's moot.
I believe that at some point in the story, these two will fight and Sukuna will come out on top. As of now, Sukuna has my vote.
Sukuna's superior portrayal stems from the fact that it is the narrator that has been hyping him. Gojo's hype as "The Strongest" comes from statements from himself and from other characters. Sukuna's hype is coming directly from the narrator. One of the best examples is the "The Honored One" statement.
Sukuna's
Gojo's
Another thing that gives Sukuna higher portrayal is his domain.
@Light D Lamperouge your point about Gojo calling Jogo weak while Sukuna calls him strong don't hold much weight considering that Sukuna called him pathetic only moments only.
The only thing Sukuna calling Jogo strong shows is that he at end of the fight had more respect for Jogo than Gojo did. It doesn't have anything to do with their powers.
And with your point about Gege calling Gojo the strongest in the manga, it's true he is but under the context. 15 Finger Sukuna, Yuji, Megumi, Yuki, Getou, Yuta, etc. are all currently weaker than Gojo. 20 Finger Sukuna and EoS Megumi and Yuji aren't part of the current manga, that's future stuff so it doesn't really apply to them in my eyes.
Narratively, Sukuna as the main villain right now makes much more sense to be the stronger of the two. He's being set up as the big bad boss to defeat and it wouldn't make any sense if he was weaker than Gojo. I don't think there'd be any point in the story if Sukuna once he gains 20 Fingers just gets defeated by Gojo afterward.
This is also a very good point. Gojo's opinion right now on him being stronger is skewed as he is unaware of Sukuna's full power. If he did then his statement of beating Sukuna would hold weight but right now it's moot.
I believe that at some point in the story, these two will fight and Sukuna will come out on top. As of now, Sukuna has my vote.
@Light D Lamperouge your point about Gojo calling Jogo weak while Sukuna calls him strong don't hold much weight considering that Sukuna called him pathetic only moments only.
The only thing Sukuna calling Jogo strong shows is that he at end of the fight had more respect for Jogo than Gojo did. It doesn't have anything to do with their powers.
It's exactly in the context. I am not sure what you're arguing here. Like I've said at least 75 times in this very thread. Full powered Ryomen Sukuna was shown in chapter 3. In chapter 16 Gege, after revealing Sukuna, decides to call Gojo the strongest character in the manga. Not the current strongest, not currently the strongest, but the strongest character in the manga. Which means that all characters introduced and all characters that reached their peak in the manga up until that moment, which includes Ryomen Sukuna are in Gege's eyes weaker than Gojo. Had the statement been the current strongest, currently the strongest, had full powered Sukuna not been shown there would be an argument around it. EoS Megumi and Yuji are characters that have not reached their peak. But we know Sukuna's peak and the full powered version was shown. 20 finger Sukuna at full power was an established character in the manga by the time Gege decided to call Gojo the strongest. Meaning Gojo>every character in the manga that was shown at their peak or is currently at their peak, which Sukuna was shown. Future versions of Megumi, Yuji the MC, Yuta, might reach and even surpass Gojo(x doubt), same if Sukuna gets a buff from Yuji or whatever, but as he is with his 20 fingers he is weaker than Gojo. Hypothetical scenarios and future versions who might be buffed one way or another don't play a role now.
This is also wrong. Gojo's hype comes from the author lmao.
- Gege calls Gojo the strongest character in the manga.
- Gege says that Gojo is too overpowered for the plot to take place in the Shibuya arc. You know the arc where the Heian era sorcerers appear. According to Gege Gojo could take care of that by himself. So Gojo is once again singled out by the author as too strong for the current plot. The plot that involves the Heian era sorcerers, 15 finger Sukuna who can take hold of Yuji, Yuta, Hakari, Kenjaku, Tengen, etc. All these characters represent no danger to the plot and the plot can move freely, but if Gojo is there he can solve everything on his own.
- Gege says that Gojo can do anything he attempts to do
So we have 3 instances of Gege literally calling Gojo the strongest. This is the author himself saying this guy is the strongest guy, he was created to be the strongest. When you say I think, I believe Sukuna is stronger you are disagreeing with the author. The author himself chose to make Gojo the strongest.
- Gojo is the one who informs us of Sukuna. What he was like, how he looked, and the fact that he was a human.
- Gojo is the head of one of the 3 major clans of Jujutsu Kaisen, established a long time ago.
- Gojo works with Tengen, a guy that's been there for at least 1200 years and has information on the sorcerers from Sukuna's era.
- Sukuna says curse spirits don't know about his flames, implying humans and jujutsu sorcerers do.
- Gege says it is only possible that they do not.
If anyone knows more about Sukuna than others it is certainly Gojo.
I've typed all of this just to actually say I don't care lol. Agree to disagree. I've lost interest in actually debating this. I wouldn't have even responded if you hadn't tagged me lol, like I haven't responded to anything in the past few pages.
D
I think you misunderstood me on that. What I meant was that it doesn't have anything to do with Sukuna and Gojo's powers. As in their power level.
We see a glimpse of the 20 Fingers Sukuna as a Gojo talks about him so we can know what he looks like, I don't think that would count as him actually appearing in the story in the same sense of say, Yuta's appearance. I guess here it gets rather subject since I would make the argument that peak Sukuna has not appeared yet in the story while you would. It's not that he is gonna get a buff later down the line, it's that any proper appearance hasn't been made. When we see a stronger version of Sukuna, Gege always has him actually appear on-screen to have an impact. The 1 Finger Sukuna, then 4 Fingers(not sure if it was 4 or 3 that fought Megumi), and now 15 Fingers.
Yes, that's for the current plot. We get that Gojo is too strong for anyone in the current story to handle. 20 Finger Sukuna, however, isn't part of the current story.
I'm not sure how literal I should be taking this statement considering that Gojo right now is stuck in the Prison Realm and so far can't get out and needs to be rescued. This is not an actual meaningful statement pertaining to actual power levels.
These statements are ones that I didn't know of and are great points. I do admit that I can't argue against Gege's intentions and if they truly are for that Gojo stands as the strongest character he wants to create.
While yes, it's likely that Gojo knows the most about Sukuna's powers, I think it's evident right now that even he is unaware of Sukuna's full strength. I think this is backed up by the statement by Gege.
From the sound of it, a sorcerer can only at best know about Sukuna's slashing techniques if they did their research as the flames aren't documented which is why it's possible that they lack knowledge of it(if the flames were documented then I don't see the point of saying that it's possible they wouldn't know). As far as I can see, the only way to know about those flames or any other hidden powers Sukuna possesses is by witnessing in a battle against Sukuna and living to tell the tale which Gojo or nobody has so far.
We see a glimpse of the 20 Fingers Sukuna as a Gojo talks about him so we can know what he looks like, I don't think that would count as him actually appearing in the story in the same sense of say, Yuta's appearance. I guess here it gets rather subject since I would make the argument that peak Sukuna has not appeared yet in the story while you would. It's not that he is gonna get a buff later down the line, it's that any proper appearance hasn't been made. When we see a stronger version of Sukuna, Gege always has him actually appear on-screen to have an impact. The 1 Finger Sukuna, then 4 Fingers(not sure if it was 4 or 3 that fought Megumi), and now 15 Fingers.
Yes, that's for the current plot. We get that Gojo is too strong for anyone in the current story to handle. 20 Finger Sukuna, however, isn't part of the current story.
- Gege says that Gojo can do anything he attempts to do
- Gege when talking about how Gojo was created stated that when creating him he wanted to create the strongest character who is easy to understand.
So we have 3 instances of Gege literally calling Gojo the strongest. This is the author himself saying this guy is the strongest guy, he was created to be the strongest. When you say I think, I believe Sukuna is stronger you are disagreeing with the author. The author himself chose to make Gojo the strongest.
So we have 3 instances of Gege literally calling Gojo the strongest. This is the author himself saying this guy is the strongest guy, he was created to be the strongest. When you say I think, I believe Sukuna is stronger you are disagreeing with the author. The author himself chose to make Gojo the strongest.
While yes, it's likely that Gojo knows the most about Sukuna's powers, I think it's evident right now that even he is unaware of Sukuna's full strength. I think this is backed up by the statement by Gege.
From the sound of it, a sorcerer can only at best know about Sukuna's slashing techniques if they did their research as the flames aren't documented which is why it's possible that they lack knowledge of it(if the flames were documented then I don't see the point of saying that it's possible they wouldn't know). As far as I can see, the only way to know about those flames or any other hidden powers Sukuna possesses is by witnessing in a battle against Sukuna and living to tell the tale which Gojo or nobody has so far.
I think you misunderstood me lol. But it's fine, that's no grand argument in Gojo vs Sukuna lol.
I've given the outline of my reasoning above and I believe it's pretty fair. As I said, had the statement been the current strongest, currently the strongest, had we not seen and gotten to know how full power Sukuna looks like and how powerful he is, I would have admitted that there is a basis to argue around it. However, since all of those things did not happen I can't. Plus couple that with what I said later down the line that Gege created Gojo to be the strongest character I believe it's pretty straightforward. These are the statements from the author. These are not in-story statements made by the characters so that we can argue their validity, these come from the author's mouth directly, outside of the story. They are literally word of God. We can like them or dislike them but we cannot argue against them. Like if tomorrow Gege decides to say that Sukuna is stronger than Gojo in an interview no matter how much I dislike it I would have to accept it.
I was addressing your argument that Gojo's hype doesn't come from the author lol. This is directly from the author. He is telling us that Gojo is literally too strong for the plot. Moreover, this is the plot that involves the Heian era curses and curse users as well as a powered up version of a curse user from that time, Kenjaku. This is legit Gege telling us the Heain era is walk in the park for Gojo.
The thing here is that we know by Gege's own admission that prison realm is literally a plot device to remove Gojo from the plot due to his strength. It would be like arguing Sukuna is weak since he can't take over a human, when we know that Yuji being his vessel is a plot point.
Aight. And yes they do. Gege's vision of Gojo is being the strongest character he created. As such, when discussing matchups Gojo always gets the benefit of the doubt.
I've said it before, but the argument that Sukuna is the final villain and if Gojo is stronger Sukuna cannot be a threat doesn't hold much. Firstly, I think it's obvious that whoever one believes is stronger, is only stronger by a small margin. Neither is gonna just drop the other like a fly. Sukuna can be a credible threat even while being weaker than Gojo, and can win against Gojo in the story even if he is weaker than Gojo. Firstly, Gojo functions best when he is alone, literally stated in the manga. Others are a hindrance to him. The battle between two of the strongest characters in the manga would wipe out entire cities if not much more. While Sukuna can afford to do so and doesn't care Gojo is different. Gojo having to fight while trying to protect the people and the city etc is a credible way of showing that Gojo is stronger but he would lose the battle. Secondly, Sukuna is located and is taking over the body of one of Gojo's students. Gojo deeply cares for Yuji. It's a question if he could bring himself to seriously harm Yuji. Then the thing with Sukuna and Megumi. Sukuna could take advantage of Megumi somehow. See there are ways for Sukuna to win the battle against Gojo in the story if it happens but still be weaker. But in an arena setting Gojo would win.
What I am saying here is that first Sukuna says cursed spirits wouldn't know, implying there are other beings that would. That leaves humans.
Secondly a thing being documented does not mean everyone would have access to it. But Gojo with his position in the society, the strongest guy, the head of the strongest clan, etc, is definitely one of the most likely people to know about it.
Thirdly, as I said above, Tengen is someone who has been around for 1200+ years. He has witnessed the Heian era. He definitely knows about it, and Gojo works with him. And like I said Gege says it's possible they don't know about the flames. He doesn't say they don't know, because there might be people that do, and as Sukuna says cursed spirits don't know but he believes others do.
Anyway, even if we take that away, we still come back to the fact that Gege says Gojo is the strongest character multiple times. That is an insurmountable piece of evidence.
I hope you get what I am saying lol. For me it's impossible to come to a conclusion that Sukuna wins. Like yeah something might change in the future, etc, but now Gojo being the winner of this fight, Gojo vs Full Power Sukuna, is the only logical conclusion, for me, looking at everything presented and everything the author stated.
I took the time to answer seriously lol, since you just caught up and are probably itching to talk about these things, but as you've probably noticed I've lost the desire to powerscale lmao. That's why you don't see me in OP arena threads anymore, nor here actually arguing. The only series I've been powerscaling recently is ROR, and that's because we just got a section for it lol, so it's kinda something new to talk about.
Like I said earlier we can agree to disagree, I probably won't spend much time making a new post lol, I kinda lost the will for it. And as I said, it's impossible for me to see an argument based on everything presented that Gojo loses. Plus I got a midterm in the morning lmao.
I've given the outline of my reasoning above and I believe it's pretty fair. As I said, had the statement been the current strongest, currently the strongest, had we not seen and gotten to know how full power Sukuna looks like and how powerful he is, I would have admitted that there is a basis to argue around it. However, since all of those things did not happen I can't. Plus couple that with what I said later down the line that Gege created Gojo to be the strongest character I believe it's pretty straightforward. These are the statements from the author. These are not in-story statements made by the characters so that we can argue their validity, these come from the author's mouth directly, outside of the story. They are literally word of God. We can like them or dislike them but we cannot argue against them. Like if tomorrow Gege decides to say that Sukuna is stronger than Gojo in an interview no matter how much I dislike it I would have to accept it.
I was addressing your argument that Gojo's hype doesn't come from the author lol. This is directly from the author. He is telling us that Gojo is literally too strong for the plot. Moreover, this is the plot that involves the Heian era curses and curse users as well as a powered up version of a curse user from that time, Kenjaku. This is legit Gege telling us the Heain era is walk in the park for Gojo.
The thing here is that we know by Gege's own admission that prison realm is literally a plot device to remove Gojo from the plot due to his strength. It would be like arguing Sukuna is weak since he can't take over a human, when we know that Yuji being his vessel is a plot point.
Aight. And yes they do. Gege's vision of Gojo is being the strongest character he created. As such, when discussing matchups Gojo always gets the benefit of the doubt.
I've said it before, but the argument that Sukuna is the final villain and if Gojo is stronger Sukuna cannot be a threat doesn't hold much. Firstly, I think it's obvious that whoever one believes is stronger, is only stronger by a small margin. Neither is gonna just drop the other like a fly. Sukuna can be a credible threat even while being weaker than Gojo, and can win against Gojo in the story even if he is weaker than Gojo. Firstly, Gojo functions best when he is alone, literally stated in the manga. Others are a hindrance to him. The battle between two of the strongest characters in the manga would wipe out entire cities if not much more. While Sukuna can afford to do so and doesn't care Gojo is different. Gojo having to fight while trying to protect the people and the city etc is a credible way of showing that Gojo is stronger but he would lose the battle. Secondly, Sukuna is located and is taking over the body of one of Gojo's students. Gojo deeply cares for Yuji. It's a question if he could bring himself to seriously harm Yuji. Then the thing with Sukuna and Megumi. Sukuna could take advantage of Megumi somehow. See there are ways for Sukuna to win the battle against Gojo in the story if it happens but still be weaker. But in an arena setting Gojo would win.
hile yes, it's likely that Gojo knows the most about Sukuna's powers, I think it's evident right now that even he is unaware of Sukuna's full strength. I think this is backed up by the statement by Gege.
From the sound of it, a sorcerer can only at best know about Sukuna's slashing techniques if they did their research as the flames aren't documented which is why it's possible that they lack knowledge of it(if the flames were documented then I don't see the point of saying that it's possible they wouldn't know). As far as I can see, the only way to know about those flames or any other hidden powers Sukuna possesses is by witnessing in a battle against Sukuna and living to tell the tale which Gojo or nobody has so far.
From the sound of it, a sorcerer can only at best know about Sukuna's slashing techniques if they did their research as the flames aren't documented which is why it's possible that they lack knowledge of it(if the flames were documented then I don't see the point of saying that it's possible they wouldn't know). As far as I can see, the only way to know about those flames or any other hidden powers Sukuna possesses is by witnessing in a battle against Sukuna and living to tell the tale which Gojo or nobody has so far.
Thirdly, as I said above, Tengen is someone who has been around for 1200+ years. He has witnessed the Heian era. He definitely knows about it, and Gojo works with him. And like I said Gege says it's possible they don't know about the flames. He doesn't say they don't know, because there might be people that do, and as Sukuna says cursed spirits don't know but he believes others do.
Anyway, even if we take that away, we still come back to the fact that Gege says Gojo is the strongest character multiple times. That is an insurmountable piece of evidence.
I hope you get what I am saying lol. For me it's impossible to come to a conclusion that Sukuna wins. Like yeah something might change in the future, etc, but now Gojo being the winner of this fight, Gojo vs Full Power Sukuna, is the only logical conclusion, for me, looking at everything presented and everything the author stated.
I took the time to answer seriously lol, since you just caught up and are probably itching to talk about these things, but as you've probably noticed I've lost the desire to powerscale lmao. That's why you don't see me in OP arena threads anymore, nor here actually arguing. The only series I've been powerscaling recently is ROR, and that's because we just got a section for it lol, so it's kinda something new to talk about.
Like I said earlier we can agree to disagree, I probably won't spend much time making a new post lol, I kinda lost the will for it. And as I said, it's impossible for me to see an argument based on everything presented that Gojo loses. Plus I got a midterm in the morning lmao.
D
I think you misunderstood me lol. But it's fine, that's no grand argument in Gojo vs Sukuna lol.
I've given the outline of my reasoning above and I believe it's pretty fair. As I said, had the statement been the current strongest, currently the strongest, had we not seen and gotten to know how full power Sukuna looks like and how powerful he is, I would have admitted that there is a basis to argue around it. However, since all of those things did not happen I can't. Plus couple that with what I said later down the line that Gege created Gojo to be the strongest character I believe it's pretty straightforward. These are the statements from the author. These are not in-story statements made by the characters so that we can argue their validity, these come from the author's mouth directly, outside of the story. They are literally word of God. We can like them or dislike them but we cannot argue against them. Like if tomorrow Gege decides to say that Sukuna is stronger than Gojo in an interview no matter how much I dislike it I would have to accept it.
I was addressing your argument that Gojo's hype doesn't come from the author lol. This is directly from the author. He is telling us that Gojo is literally too strong for the plot. Moreover, this is the plot that involves the Heian era curses and curse users as well as a powered up version of a curse user from that time, Kenjaku. This is legit Gege telling us the Heain era is walk in the park for Gojo.
The thing here is that we know by Gege's own admission that prison realm is literally a plot device to remove Gojo from the plot due to his strength. It would be like arguing Sukuna is weak since he can't take over a human, when we know that Yuji being his vessel is a plot point.
Aight. And yes they do. Gege's vision of Gojo is being the strongest character he created. As such, when discussing matchups Gojo always gets the benefit of the doubt.
I've said it before, but the argument that Sukuna is the final villain and if Gojo is stronger Sukuna cannot be a threat doesn't hold much. Firstly, I think it's obvious that whoever one believes is stronger, is only stronger by a small margin. Neither is gonna just drop the other like a fly. Sukuna can be a credible threat even while being weaker than Gojo, and can win against Gojo in the story even if he is weaker than Gojo. Firstly, Gojo functions best when he is alone, literally stated in the manga. Others are a hindrance to him. The battle between two of the strongest characters in the manga would wipe out entire cities if not much more. While Sukuna can afford to do so and doesn't care Gojo is different. Gojo having to fight while trying to protect the people and the city etc is a credible way of showing that Gojo is stronger but he would lose the battle. Secondly, Sukuna is located and is taking over the body of one of Gojo's students. Gojo deeply cares for Yuji. It's a question if he could bring himself to seriously harm Yuji. Then the thing with Sukuna and Megumi. Sukuna could take advantage of Megumi somehow. See there are ways for Sukuna to win the battle against Gojo in the story if it happens but still be weaker. But in an arena setting Gojo would win.
What I am saying here is that first Sukuna says cursed spirits wouldn't know, implying there are other beings that would. That leaves humans.
Secondly a thing being documented does not mean everyone would have access to it. But Gojo with his position in the society, the strongest guy, the head of the strongest clan, etc, is definitely one of the most likely people to know about it.
Thirdly, as I said above, Tengen is someone who has been around for 1200+ years. He has witnessed the Heian era. He definitely knows about it, and Gojo works with him. And like I said Gege says it's possible they don't know about the flames. He doesn't say they don't know, because there might be people that do, and as Sukuna says cursed spirits don't know but he believes others do.
Anyway, even if we take that away, we still come back to the fact that Gege says Gojo is the strongest character multiple times. That is an insurmountable piece of evidence.
I hope you get what I am saying lol. For me it's impossible to come to a conclusion that Sukuna wins. Like yeah something might change in the future, etc, but now Gojo being the winner of this fight, Gojo vs Full Power Sukuna, is the only logical conclusion, for me, looking at everything presented and everything the author stated.
I took the time to answer seriously lol, since you just caught up and are probably itching to talk about these things, but as you've probably noticed I've lost the desire to powerscale lmao. That's why you don't see me in OP arena threads anymore, nor here actually arguing. The only series I've been powerscaling recently is ROR, and that's because we just got a section for it lol, so it's kinda something new to talk about.
Like I said earlier we can agree to disagree, I probably won't spend much time making a new post lol, I kinda lost the will for it. And as I said, it's impossible for me to see an argument based on everything presented that Gojo loses. Plus I got a midterm in the morning lmao.
I've given the outline of my reasoning above and I believe it's pretty fair. As I said, had the statement been the current strongest, currently the strongest, had we not seen and gotten to know how full power Sukuna looks like and how powerful he is, I would have admitted that there is a basis to argue around it. However, since all of those things did not happen I can't. Plus couple that with what I said later down the line that Gege created Gojo to be the strongest character I believe it's pretty straightforward. These are the statements from the author. These are not in-story statements made by the characters so that we can argue their validity, these come from the author's mouth directly, outside of the story. They are literally word of God. We can like them or dislike them but we cannot argue against them. Like if tomorrow Gege decides to say that Sukuna is stronger than Gojo in an interview no matter how much I dislike it I would have to accept it.
I was addressing your argument that Gojo's hype doesn't come from the author lol. This is directly from the author. He is telling us that Gojo is literally too strong for the plot. Moreover, this is the plot that involves the Heian era curses and curse users as well as a powered up version of a curse user from that time, Kenjaku. This is legit Gege telling us the Heain era is walk in the park for Gojo.
The thing here is that we know by Gege's own admission that prison realm is literally a plot device to remove Gojo from the plot due to his strength. It would be like arguing Sukuna is weak since he can't take over a human, when we know that Yuji being his vessel is a plot point.
Aight. And yes they do. Gege's vision of Gojo is being the strongest character he created. As such, when discussing matchups Gojo always gets the benefit of the doubt.
I've said it before, but the argument that Sukuna is the final villain and if Gojo is stronger Sukuna cannot be a threat doesn't hold much. Firstly, I think it's obvious that whoever one believes is stronger, is only stronger by a small margin. Neither is gonna just drop the other like a fly. Sukuna can be a credible threat even while being weaker than Gojo, and can win against Gojo in the story even if he is weaker than Gojo. Firstly, Gojo functions best when he is alone, literally stated in the manga. Others are a hindrance to him. The battle between two of the strongest characters in the manga would wipe out entire cities if not much more. While Sukuna can afford to do so and doesn't care Gojo is different. Gojo having to fight while trying to protect the people and the city etc is a credible way of showing that Gojo is stronger but he would lose the battle. Secondly, Sukuna is located and is taking over the body of one of Gojo's students. Gojo deeply cares for Yuji. It's a question if he could bring himself to seriously harm Yuji. Then the thing with Sukuna and Megumi. Sukuna could take advantage of Megumi somehow. See there are ways for Sukuna to win the battle against Gojo in the story if it happens but still be weaker. But in an arena setting Gojo would win.
What I am saying here is that first Sukuna says cursed spirits wouldn't know, implying there are other beings that would. That leaves humans.
Thirdly, as I said above, Tengen is someone who has been around for 1200+ years. He has witnessed the Heian era. He definitely knows about it, and Gojo works with him. And like I said Gege says it's possible they don't know about the flames. He doesn't say they don't know, because there might be people that do, and as Sukuna says cursed spirits don't know but he believes others do.
Anyway, even if we take that away, we still come back to the fact that Gege says Gojo is the strongest character multiple times. That is an insurmountable piece of evidence.
I hope you get what I am saying lol. For me it's impossible to come to a conclusion that Sukuna wins. Like yeah something might change in the future, etc, but now Gojo being the winner of this fight, Gojo vs Full Power Sukuna, is the only logical conclusion, for me, looking at everything presented and everything the author stated.
I took the time to answer seriously lol, since you just caught up and are probably itching to talk about these things, but as you've probably noticed I've lost the desire to powerscale lmao. That's why you don't see me in OP arena threads anymore, nor here actually arguing. The only series I've been powerscaling recently is ROR, and that's because we just got a section for it lol, so it's kinda something new to talk about.
Like I said earlier we can agree to disagree, I probably won't spend much time making a new post lol, I kinda lost the will for it. And as I said, it's impossible for me to see an argument based on everything presented that Gojo loses. Plus I got a midterm in the morning lmao.
We shall see.
It's definitely non linear.
Recall what Jogo said when fighting Sukuna. He's thinking back to when Kenjaku told him he was, being generous, 8 or 9 fingers level. Jogo (taking that generosity into account) STILL thinks that the gap between him and 15 finger Sukuna was far larger than he expected
Not anymore 
Recall what Jogo said when fighting Sukuna. He's thinking back to when Kenjaku told him he was, being generous, 8 or 9 fingers level. Jogo (taking that generosity into account) STILL thinks that the gap between him and 15 finger Sukuna was far larger than he expected
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Perfectly balanced poll
