Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler

Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?


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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Nfufufu, how surprising from Kanki. Lol

Okay so here’s my theory on Kanki’s formation here:

You can basically cripple an army’s lines by striking them at a side-angle. This is the principal behind Rinko’s Rindo, his armies pushing the enemy formations outward, Moubu’sEchelon at Coalition, his army struck at a diagonal angle which crippled Kanki’s lines, and Riboku’s Houmei’s Ryudou, which forces charging armies to get caught up in the current and slowly die off.

So, I think this formation will literally spin like a propeller to act as a mixture of the Ryudou as well as Makou’s wave attack at Shukai. And if Kanki can move this spinning propeller forward at Riboku’s HQ, reserving his strong attackers like Zenou and the Shuma for the moment where Riboku’s head is within reach, I could see a formation like this devastating everything in its path lol, though of course a huge number of Kanki’s men would die in the process. This formation would almost be a suicide charge for the Kanki army. Man, the battle of Gian has been pure carnage thus far lol.

But whatever the case may be, it looks like Kanki sucking at open warfare was just a deception on his part lmfao. Or perhaps just a preference of not liking open warfare. I think we all knew Kanki wouldn’t just fold to Riboku here, but imagine if Kanki’s army turns into a giant death blade that cleaves through the Zhao. Lol

That said, I do think the Zhao will still win this battle. Riboku has reserved his most powerful Generals, and of course, I do still believe the Tiger will soon pounce. Lol
 
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Nfufufu, how surprising from Kanki. Lol

Okay so here’s my theory on Kanki’s formation here:

You can basically cripple an army’s lines by striking them at a side-angle. This is the principal behind Rinko’s Rindo, his armies pushing the enemy formations outward, Moubu’sEchelon at Coalition, his army struck at a diagonal angle which crippled Kanki’s lines, and Riboku’s Houmei’s Ryudou, which forces charging armies to get caught up in the current and slowly die off.

So, I think this formation will literally spin like a propeller to act as a mixture of the Ryudou as well as Makou’s wave attack at Shukai. And if Kanki can move this spinning propeller forward at Riboku’s HQ, reserving his strong attackers like Zenou and the Shuma for the moment where Riboku’s head is within reach, I could see a formation like this devastating everything in its path lol, though of course a huge number of Kanki’s men would die in the process. This formation would almost be a suicide charge for the Kanki army. Man, the battle of Atsuyo has been pure carnage thus far lol.

But whatever the case may be, it looks like Kanki sucking at open warfare was just a deception on his part lmfao. Or perhaps just a preference of not liking open warfare. I think we all knew Kanki wouldn’t just fold to Riboku here, but imagine if Kanki’s army turns into a giant death blade that cleaves through the Zhao. Lol

That said, I do think the Zhao will still win this battle. Riboku has reserved his most powerful Generals, and of course, I do still believe the Tiger will soon pounce. Lol
Riboku said that Kanki's weakness is that he never had the oppportunity to learn the basics of battle, the formal way.

Yet instead, apparently the dude is even more deceptive than what it seemed lol, pulling out something like that. He definitely knows his shit lol.

That being said, I agree that the Zhao are going to win.

But man...Kanki is a real bastard lol.
 
That formation looks like it's constructed in a way so that it can break into every direction at any moment and Kan Ki can escape in the confusion as the Zhao try to pinpoint among which unit he is hiding.

This is an army of bandits and cutthroats. If there's anything they know, it's how to run and survive.

For the Kan Ki Army, victory lies in living to fight another day.
 
First statement is true but still he wasted the great opportunity to finish off Kanki with surprise attack and overwhelming numbers while being overconfident and spending time talking to those standies.
With Heki's Army destroyed, the Northern Army destroyed and the HSU/Mouten fleeing the battlefield, it already looked like overwhelming numbers were already destroying the Qin Army. It really didn't look like it needed anything more doing.
Keep one or two special generals in reserve but he kept four of them. Isn't it too much wasting of resources.

Or now that he lost his favorite Pokémon, Houken, for surprise attack on enemy generals, now he needs more than one general like Banaji to compensate for Houken's loss.
Well Kochou deployed all his Generals at and lost his head for it. Attempting to go straight for overkill can result in overreach.

Yeah he has four Generals in his own army but only Bananji is capable of doing what you are describing and he really needs to be kept in case of unforeseen BS like what Kanki is pulling off now. Lol.
If Ouki hadn't taken the bait :

- He won't be blocked that bell shape mountain where he couldn't retreat.

- In the plains he could have use variety of tactics to either counter incoming Riboku or retreat.

- If not taking the bait, Ouki using Tou and Rokuomi could have destroyed right at that spot. Other than horses, Riboku or his army was below Ouki's army in every aspect.

Just like Riboku, it's all about wild imaginations with the use of "If" and "But".
Alright, I think we are referring to two different scenarios within the same arc as "the bait".

I was referring to Ouki specifically going after Chousa in that bell shaped area while I think you are referring to Ouki pursuing the Zhao Army into the forest in general.

Regardless, if all of Riboku's plans at Bayou had failed and he just rolled up with 40,000 cavalry to a plains battle, the failure of his plan wouldn't have put him at some sizable tactical disadvantage like what happened to Kanki when his plan to kill Keisha failed. Kanki was frowning for a reason.
As for situation of Keisha and him being moving out or not. If Keisha stayed at hill, Kanki would still have removed Kisui by attacking in his city and weakened Keisha army. Imagine Keisha facing Kanki’s brutal army without Kisui's support...... everyone of Keisha's army would get "chopped decorated head" somewhere in the jungles.
The problem here is that this was never Kanki's backup plan, this was a plan Kanki was forced to come up with quickly after his plan to kill Keisha failed hard. He actually straight up gave up on killing Keisha.

Riboku has plan after plan after plan in store. Coalition Army fails to storm Kankoku Pass, Riboku sneaks around Bu Pass, he had been planning that in advance. Battle of Shukai Plains goes tits up, he still has plan to surround Gyou, block river from Qin direction and deploy Kochou to stay at city to stop any reinforcements, would have likely stopped Qi resupply if Toujou hadn't interfered.

Kanki fails to kill Keisha..... Shit, let's revolve plan around Kisui. Thank Hara that Kisui is a softy or Kanki would be in a pickle.

Riboku plans for his failures in advance. Kanki seemingly doesn't.
 
KanKi is still acting the same way as expected in battle. The guy is just one of the best at improvising and making the best of any situation he's in, even when it looks completely hopeless. So I have nothing else to add there.

Riboku said that Kanki's weakness is that he never had the oppportunity to learn the basics of battle, the formal way.

Yet instead, apparently the dude is even more deceptive than what it seemed lol, pulling out something like that. He definitely knows his shit lol.

That being said, I agree that the Zhao are going to win.

But man...Kanki is a real bastard lol.
But Riboku tho...:giogio:

KanKi's weakness is that he's "bad" at traditional warfare? Really?

KanKi's weakness is that if you overwhelm him with sheer numbers in a traditional/plains battle, he'll most likely lose?:saitahu:

I honestly don't know what Hara is thinking here. So just like with KanKi making Ei Sei into his bitch, I'll just wait to see how Hara clarifies/resolves this mess before I form my complete opinion.

I'll give Hara the benefit of the doubt, but for me personally, for a LONG TIME now, Kingdom has felt like all substance, no depth. Everything feels superficial. It looks cool and all, but still superficial.
 
I really fear that Riboku's character will be stained by the fact that another GG level fighter will always be the one to bring him the W. Knowing his capabilities we can guess that Riboku can do it but if Hara used Shibashou as a trump card to come in at the utmost crucial moment when Kanki is cornering Riboku which I'm convinced is going to happen then that's ass for Riboku but insanely hype for Shibashou and Kanki.

Kanki is already fighting the most ridiculous battle period. The only one losing here would be Riboku.
Instead, if said general is included inside Riboku's plan (like for Houken), no issues.
It's definitely going to be SBS who's going to save Riboku's ass at crucial moment. Also SBS needed a good buildup as well and for that Kanki would be the best scapegoat. Last time it felt like Ordo going to become that sacrifice but that didn't happened.

As for using Banaji or others if not SBS than most likely that's not going to happen to kill Kanki as MouTen most probably would try to hold every possible aid for Riboku at this moment. Banaji most likely can only save Riboku at any critical moment.
But whatever the case may be, it looks like Kanki sucking at open warfare was just a deception on his part lmfao. Or perhaps just a preference of not liking open warfare. I think we all knew Kanki wouldn’t just fold to Riboku here, but imagine if Kanki’s army turns into a giant death blade that cleaves through the Zhao. Lol
That's the symptom of being high class bandit. Lolllll

Btw Major, Ousen said Kanki used SunBin's strategy while handling KouChou and later it was exactly similar just like what and how SunBin achieved in past. So Kanki did it by devising this plan himself or he actually learnt it either through self reading or under someone else (which is not disclosed yet). Even Naki has indicated that there's some past story behind Kanki’s vengefulness and being bandit (and he might has some amazing background as well).

May be Riboku is wrong here as Kanki doesn't have any knowledge/teaching of strategies......
That said, I do think the Zhao will still win this battle. Riboku has reserved his most powerful Generals, and of course, I do still believe the Tiger will soon pounce. Lol
Riboku definitely need to use those generals to counter this ludo board of Kanki but for winning this let's see if either Shin going to reach Riboku first or SBS with his special entry going to chop Kanki.
 
I don't understand how Riboku's hypothesis even makes sense. Even if Kanki truly couldn't use orthodox battle tactics in straightforward battles, how is that an issue? He's a 6GG with many generals in his army. Or you suggesting Riboku thought that none of them knew basic warfare either?
And that statement right after seeing Kanki showing similar play that SunBin showed more than hundreds of years ago. Who's SunBin, the descendant of SunTzu , the creator of "Art of war".

With Heki's Army destroyed, the Northern Army destroyed and the HSU/Mouten fleeing the battlefield, it already looked like overwhelming numbers were already destroying the Qin Army. It really didn't look like it needed anything more doing.
He overwhelmed his opponent with great numbers but didn't used his main generals so that could use them in reserve while chipping down Qin's soldiers. Here soldiers are more important or enemy general who's also a 6GG? You can also kill those soldiers later after killing main general.

Riboku just gave away too much time to Kanki to make a counter attack.
Well Kochou deployed all his Generals at and lost his head for it. Attempting to go straight for overkill can result in overreach.

Yeah he has four Generals in his own army but only Bananji is capable of doing what you are describing and he really needs to be kept in case of unforeseen BS like what Kanki is pulling off now.
Different Terrain and different scenarios. Here Riboku encircled and attacked an incoming army which also in plain area and Riboku also calculated it as weakness of opponent. He has overwhelming advantages than why not even use your best commanders as well to finish of enemy.

Also i believe SSJ might also be a martial beast, as shown in the beginning against YTW army.
I was referring to Ouki specifically going after Chousa in that bell shaped area while I think you are referring to Ouki pursuing the Zhao Army into the forest in general.
But still even using the ifs and but like Riboku, if Ouki hadn't gone after killing Houken before the arrival of new army as he already deduced, even after the arrival of Riboku, Ouki could have either used different strategy to counter them or if needed than retreat. A 6GG who knew a new enemy is coming and also could guess that he was the one who orchestrated this whole scenario, could have also prepare a well suited strategy to tackle.

Regardless, if all of Riboku's plans at Bayou had failed and he just rolled up with 40,000 cavalry to a plains battle, the failure of his plan wouldn't have put him at some sizable tactical disadvantage like what happened to Kanki when his plan to kill Keisha failed. Kanki was frowning for a reason.
Still Kanki already started his next move and for that he targeted Kisui and removing his army to reduce numbers of Keisha. But before that Keisha came down the hill to get killed.

If he hadn't came down than Kanki would have first sow internal dispute along with removing Rigan army by targeting Kisui.
The problem here is that this was never Kanki's backup plan, this was a plan Kanki was forced to come up with quickly after his plan to kill Keisha failed hard. He actually straight up gave up on killing Keisha.
So if his plan fails than he can't counter or use another plan ?

Even his counter would have successfully harmed Zhou's army. He gave up on killing Keisha because he first needed to remove advantages held up by Zhao army.
Battle of Shukai Plains goes tits up, he still has plan to surround Gyou, block river from Qin direction and deploy Kochou to stay at city to stop any reinforcements, would have likely stopped Qi resupply if Toujou hadn't interfered
Accept this that Riboku clearly lost to the supply plan made by Ousen.

He kept them under the delusion of being successfully destroying every possible way of supply whether it was Retsubi or yellow river but he used Qi's side of Yellow river which clearly went out of the supervision of Riboku and SSJ, and that was when he wasn't arrested. The moment he got grasp this situation, food supply was overwhelmingly coming from other side of the Gyou which even Kaine present there couldn't se through (don't know she overlooked that or she was so much near Gyou that she couldn't see through other side). So no matter if Riboku is present there or not , till he could grasp or scrutinize the whole big area of Gyou, most of the supply would still be inside Gyou).

Western/southern Zhao campaign from the very beginning till the capture of Gyou is clear and exact victory of Ousen, no matter how many Ifs and buts Riboku could get in his defense.
Kanki fails to kill Keisha..... Shit, let's revolve plan around Kisui. Thank Hara that Kisui is a softy or Kanki would be in a pickle.

Riboku plans for his failures in advance. Kanki seemingly doesn't.
If that was true than Kanki would have lost pretty badly. As if Kanki didn't already knew about the weaknesses of his opponent than till he got to knew about them he would have lost already. Also if he didn't knew beforehand than how he perfectly counter instantly by targeting Rigan, after first plans failure .

Zhao hold all the advantages and even after Keisha's death, they were going to fight against Qin. If they could hold than Riboku would have sent another general as well. But Kanki removed whole Rigan army. That's a huge loss for Zhao at that moment, thus concluded in clear victory for Qin.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Btw Major, Ousen said Kanki used SunBin's strategy while handling KouChou and later it was exactly similar just like what and how SunBin achieved in past. So Kanki did it by devising this plan himself or he actually learnt it either through self reading or under someone else (which is not disclosed yet). Even Naki has indicated that there's some past story behind Kanki’s vengefulness and being bandit (and he might has some amazing background as well).

May be Riboku is wrong here as Kanki doesn't have any knowledge/teaching of strategies......
Well, there is no proof that Kanki even knows who Sun Bin is lol, for all we know Kanki could’ve just made this tactic up himself without being aware that it’s been used before.

I don't understand how Riboku's hypothesis even makes sense. Even if Kanki truly couldn't use orthodox battle tactics in straightforward battles, how is that an issue? He's a 6GG with many generals in his army. Or you suggesting Riboku thought that none of them knew basic warfare either?
None of Kanki’s generals seem to know much about traditional strategy though to be fair. Only Maron seems to be knowledgeable in this regard, and Kanki mostly ignores Maron’s advice anyway. Lol
 
Well, there is no proof that Kanki even knows who Sun Bin even is lol, for all we know Kanki could’ve just made this tactic up himself without being aware that it’s been used before lol.
True. Then he might be genius amongst the genius generals of current era. Even Ousen said he couldn't think of using/implement SunBin's strategy the way Kanki did. Lol

Riboku might also comment on Kanki’s current formation as well, like this : ohh this the great LUDO formation created by SunTzu, the creator of Art of War.
:kayneshrug:

Maron seems to be knowledgeable in this regard, and Kanki mostly ignores Maron’s advice anyway. Lol
I think he's there only for checking the positions of soldiers and sweating bullets at every situation.
:josad:
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Riboku doesn't know that though. And I remeber Koku'ou having a solid read of the battle and where to move people.

I think Riboku is moreso paying attention to the larger moves the Kanki army makes to reverse engineer Kanki’s style of warfare, he is not so much factoring in minor commanders like Koku’ou. Like I said here:

Kaishibou attacks Kanki’s HQ, and what does Kanki do? He immediately abandons his own HQ and retreats into the forest.

Kanki defeats Keisha how? Not by engaging Keisha directly but by identifying Kisui as someone who would abandon the battle if Rigan was in danger, and then by promising to violate Rigan unless Kisui retreated to save them. (And by Shin slaying Keisha, lol.)

Kanki defeats Kochou how? Not by engaging him head on, but by using the terrain to deceive Kochou’s men and then effectively assassinating Kochou with a small strike force.
Because Riboku is focusing on how to defeat Kanki himself while the task of defeating people like Koku’Ou will fall to Riboku’s own commanders.

And obviously Riboku should’ve never known with certainty that he was correct, but this to me seems like your best bet when facing a commander you’ve never fought before, you look at their past battles and try to decipher their abilities as a commander from them.
 
All instinctual generals are like they don’t know conventional warfare lol. Duke Hyou, Keisha did not fight like conventional generals. Kanki being instinctual (that too extremely talented instinctual general) fights in an unconventional way.

Difference between Duke, Keisha and Kanki being they atleast had excellent traditional warfare guys who are good at strategizing but Kanki doesn’t have one except for maybe Maron?

This battle is gonna be ultimate battle between a strategical general and instinctual one! Kanki already knew that he was going into a trap before.
 
RBK was clearly proven to be wrong in his assessment of Kan Ki lacking ability in conventional warfare methods.

The only way what he said can still make sense is if it was meant in the sense that Kan Ki's understanding of conventional warfare simply isn't as high level as that of the foes he vanquished because he never had the need nor inclination to learn.
 
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None of Kanki’s generals seem to know much about traditional strategy though to be fair. Only Maron seems to be knowledgeable in this regard, and Kanki mostly ignores Maron’s advice anyway. Lol
I'd say Kanki's most prominent commanders/clan leaders are on par with decent generals.


Koku'Ou / Ringkyoku / Kohaku Kou

Raido / Ryuuhaku Kou

Even someone like Naki (who's still a 1K commander) seems to posses a lot of talent.
 
Riboku said that Kanki's weakness is that he never had the oppportunity to learn the basics of battle, the formal way.

Yet instead, apparently the dude is even more deceptive than what it seemed lol, pulling out something like that. He definitely knows his shit lol.

That being said, I agree that the Zhao are going to win.

But man...Kanki is a real bastard lol.
No matter what Formation Kanki uses it's irrelevant, like Riboku said they just need to slowly chip away at the edges with their numbers.. Kanki is just trying as a last attempt to mess up with their minds because he got nothing.. The only thing that formation can do right now is buy more time for night fall and run or something..
 
This chapter looks pure hype based on sheer number of people posting after reading the spoilers. Finally Hara is delivering another battle to us,

I'm going to take a guess Riboku will be able to somehow manage to get to Kanki here but Shin/Mouten would make that job difficult and impossible. In the end SSJ will come to shift the advantage again to Riboku side.

Love to see Kanki surprising each one of us.​
 
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