House of the Dragon
- Thread starter Rhea
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Just caught the latest episode tonight.
- I am starting to like Alicent ngl. She is a much better character than Rhaenyra imo.
- This mf Criston Cole has turned into an insufferable prick. Get him off my screen.
- Princess Rhaenys could really have ended the series right there. I take back all the slander.
- I am starting to like Alicent ngl. She is a much better character than Rhaenyra imo.
- This mf Criston Cole has turned into an insufferable prick. Get him off my screen.
- Princess Rhaenys could really have ended the series right there. I take back all the slander.
Personally didnt like the shows attempt at neutering Aemond's character.
Him killing Lucaerys is supposed to be his "Things I do for love" moment. Now imagine if Bran slipped instead? The further events wont hit nearly as much both from Aemond's side and from the black's side.
Plus the excuse that Aemond simply chased Luke and Arrax with Vhagar, which is 50x larger than Arrax & not with intent to take back revenge that he was owed makes zero sense.
Him killing Lucaerys is supposed to be his "Things I do for love" moment. Now imagine if Bran slipped instead? The further events wont hit nearly as much both from Aemond's side and from the black's side.
Plus the excuse that Aemond simply chased Luke and Arrax with Vhagar, which is 50x larger than Arrax & not with intent to take back revenge that he was owed makes zero sense.
idk about you but he just became my favorite character
he’s so badass and cool
as a show only i quite liked it
luce was dumb af you have 3 brothers, betroth Joffrey to one of them and if it’s still not enough use the kid that just died as another kid to marry, they still don’t know the new born died
boom thats how you win them over, luce is just not a man of action he would have been a worse lord than aegon
as for the eye he should have just put out his eye
1- you will look cool af and can even get a gemstone there instead like ruby as aemond did with his sapphire
2-solve the conflict between the two
if jace went there things would have went differently
anyways time to start reading the books
he’s so badass and cool
as a show only i quite liked it
luce was dumb af you have 3 brothers, betroth Joffrey to one of them and if it’s still not enough use the kid that just died as another kid to marry, they still don’t know the new born died
boom thats how you win them over, luce is just not a man of action he would have been a worse lord than aegon
as for the eye he should have just put out his eye
1- you will look cool af and can even get a gemstone there instead like ruby as aemond did with his sapphire
2-solve the conflict between the two
if jace went there things would have went differently
anyways time to start reading the books
Fair enough, to me they're humanizing Aemond.
Huh? Firstly, Luke's character is besides the entire point. I'm talking about Aemond, not Luke here.
Luke's just a 14 year old kid lol. Stop being that harsh on him.
It's also not about Joffrey being there, it's about how Aegon's coronation, Luke's death & the Black's response to Luke's death singlehandedly started a war which engulfed the entire realm & severely weakened Targeryen power. I mean, do you really think someone like Daemon is going to let this slide? Rhaenyra just lost her daughter, her father, her birthright was stolen from her and then Aemond with his gigantic Vhagar mercilessly (in their eyes) kills her teenage son & his tiny Dragon.
Besides my points are about Aemond.
When I read the book, to me it seemed like it was never about the eye in the first place although that was what was used to enact revenge. This conflict goes much deeper than that, starting from Otto vs Daemon.
Huh? Firstly, Luke's character is besides the entire point. I'm talking about Aemond, not Luke here.
Luke's just a 14 year old kid lol. Stop being that harsh on him.
It's also not about Joffrey being there, it's about how Aegon's coronation, Luke's death & the Black's response to Luke's death singlehandedly started a war which engulfed the entire realm & severely weakened Targeryen power. I mean, do you really think someone like Daemon is going to let this slide? Rhaenyra just lost her daughter, her father, her birthright was stolen from her and then Aemond with his gigantic Vhagar mercilessly (in their eyes) kills her teenage son & his tiny Dragon.
Besides my points are about Aemond.
When I read the book, to me it seemed like it was never about the eye in the first place although that was what was used to enact revenge. This conflict goes much deeper than that, starting from Otto vs Daemon.
i know i know i was just talking unrelated to your point should have made that clear
true but young aemond who was younger went n faced vhagar to try to claim him
i haven’t read the books yet but i do feel giving out an eye would calm the animosity between just them n aemond thats what i meant earlier by solving the conflict
true but young aemond who was younger went n faced vhagar to try to claim him
i haven’t read the books yet but i do feel giving out an eye would calm the animosity between just them n aemond thats what i meant earlier by solving the conflict
Aemond is cut from the same cloth as Daemon.
He's simply built different than the other younger generation Targs.
That comparision itself is futile.
And that's what I said, the conflict goes much deeper than just that incident & this alone won't solve much.
For years, Blacks & Greens have been against each other to back Rhaenyra's & Aegon ii's claims to the throne (including the kid generation) that one eye means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
He's simply built different than the other younger generation Targs.
That comparision itself is futile.
And that's what I said, the conflict goes much deeper than just that incident & this alone won't solve much.
For years, Blacks & Greens have been against each other to back Rhaenyra's & Aegon ii's claims to the throne (including the kid generation) that one eye means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Its quite different though? Him offing Luke leads to the war, heck his mom and grandads reaction to him doing it were to chastize him. Also you are acting as if we know what happened between them far up in the clouds, the book is a retelling of the events done by maesters that had no actual way to know what truly happened, eye witnesses in storms end saw Luke leave with Aemond in tow and then luke ending up dead so the conclusion that Aemond killed him ( and he did) is correct in their eyes, except they dont know the details of what truly happened.
I dont think they neutered Aemond's character at all, if anything it made him more complex instead of the anime villainesque portrayal he had in the books. I mean what teenager would murder his own kin ( especially since kinslaying is super taboo in Westeros) in cold blood? This also makes his descent into madness that much more interesting.
Him chasing Luke to take an eye from him/ scare him shitless makes sense to me, he was bullied as a kid and he is now bullying one of his bullies.
I like this post explaining Aemonds character arc so far:
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The war was coming regardless. IIRC, Aegon asked for Rhaenyra's and Daemon's heads before Storms End even happened after hearing of her coronation in the books. And he throws a feast for Aemond after learning of what happened.
The point is Aemond explicitly asks for Luke's eye or his life at Storms End in the book.
I'll just quote that part verbatim, feel free to draw your own conclusion.
This is like a character defining moment for Aemond in the books. He is just like Daemon in multiple ways, cold, ruthless to his enemies while being fearlessly loyal and protective of his side.
And I never called it "bad writing" or anything - I simply said that I personally did not like this change like the many others in the show: Laena's death, Laenor's "death", the "Aegon" misunderstanding b/w Alicent & Viserys, taking away some of the iconic stuff Rhaenyra & Alicent say in the books, involving Daemon's daughters when Aemond claimed Vhagar etc,.
The Greens & the Blacks have been against each other for almost decades at this point - to say that Aegon's coronation was not a power grab (in which Alicent was explicitly involved in the books) & the official start of the Dance at Storm's End being an accident - you are effectively taking away key character moments from a host of characters who drove the situation to that point and blaming it all on accidents & misunderstandings.
In an attempt to make all characters more human & relatable, they are essentially changing their key motivations & actions which makes them look like indecisive airheads who can't make a decision to save their lives at the end of it. Which is why I asked, had Jaime hesitated & Bran slipped - would Jaime's character arc be any good?
Atp, the show changed so much that it can very well be considered the showrunner's interpretation of the events of the Dance & not what the books say.
It really doesn't, you don't openly say that you're gonna take someone's life & then chase them with a Dragon 50x the size of their own and then suddenly not want to kill them.
Plus, the "bullying" that you're talking about is infantile stuff which was started by Aegon in the first place lol. Do you honestly expect Aemond to hold onto a grudge that's almost a decade old, during a time where war was all but inevitable, and when his side was in a severe Dragon deficit - to just chase Luke to bully him back and not take his and his Dragon's life?
Which again can be executed well by the showrunners provided they change further events to fit the story they are telling. I just personally don't like the decision (as of now).
Yep.
That being an accident & Aegon's coronation being based on a "misunderstanding" makes the Dance itself look pointless.
The point is Aemond explicitly asks for Luke's eye or his life at Storms End in the book.
I'll just quote that part verbatim, feel free to draw your own conclusion.
He must surely have known what Vhagar’s presence meant, so it would have come as no surprise when Aemond Targaryen confronted him in the Round Hall, before the eyes of Lord Borros, his four daughters, septon, and maester, and twoscore knights, guards, and servants. (Amongst those who witnessed the meeting was Ser Byron Swann, second son of Lord of Stonehelm in the Dornish Marches, who would have his own small part to play later in the Dance.) So here for once we need not rely entirely on Grand Maester Munkun, Mushroom, and Septon Eustace. None of them were present at Storm’s End, but many others were, so we have no shortage of firsthand accounts.
“Look at this sad creature, my lord,” Prince Aemond called out. “Little Luke Strong, the bastard.” To Luke he said, “You are wet, bastard. Is it raining or did you piss youself in fear?”
Lucerys Velaryon addressed himself only to Lord Baratheon. “Lord Borros, I have brought you a message from my mother, the queen.”
“The whore of Dragonstone, he means.” Prince Aemond strode forward and made to snatch the letter from Lucerys’s hand, but Lord Borros roared a command and his knights intervened, pulling the princelings apart. One brought Rhaenyra’s letter to the dais, where his lordship sat upon the throne of the storm kings of old.
No man can truly know what Borros Baratheon was feeling at that moment. The accounts of those who were there differ markedly one from the other. Some say his lordship was red-faced and abashed, as a man might be if his lawful wife found him abed with another woman. Others declare that Borros appeared to be relishing the moment, for it pleased his vanity to have both king and queen seeking his support. Mushroom (who was not there) says he was drunk. Septon Eustace (who was not there) says he was fearful.
Yet all the witnesses agree on what Lord Borros said and did. Never a man of letters, he handed the queen’s letter to his maester, who cracked the seal and whispered the message into his lordship’s ear. A frown stole across Lord Borros’s face. He stroked his beard, scowled at Lucerys Velaryon, and said, “And if I do as your mother bids, which one of my daughters will you marry, boy?” He gestured at the four girls. “Pick one.”
Prince Lucerys could only blush. “My lord, I am not free to marry,” he replied. “I am betrothed to my cousin Rhaena.”
“I thought as much,” Lord Borros said. “Go home, pup, and tell the bitch your mother that the Lord of Storm’s End is not a dog that she can whistle up at need to set against her foes.” And Prince Lucerys turned to take his leave of the Round Hall.
But Prince Aemond drew his sword and said, “Hold, Strong. First pay the debt you owe me.” Then he tore off his eye patch and flung it to the floor, to show the sapphire beneath. “You have a knife, just as you did then. Put out your eye, and I will let you leave. One will serve. I would not blind you.”
Prince Lucerys recalled his promise to his mother. “I will not fight you. I came here as an envoy, not a knight.”
“You came here as a craven and a traitor,” Prince Aemond answered. “I will have your eye or your life, Strong.”
“Look at this sad creature, my lord,” Prince Aemond called out. “Little Luke Strong, the bastard.” To Luke he said, “You are wet, bastard. Is it raining or did you piss youself in fear?”
Lucerys Velaryon addressed himself only to Lord Baratheon. “Lord Borros, I have brought you a message from my mother, the queen.”
“The whore of Dragonstone, he means.” Prince Aemond strode forward and made to snatch the letter from Lucerys’s hand, but Lord Borros roared a command and his knights intervened, pulling the princelings apart. One brought Rhaenyra’s letter to the dais, where his lordship sat upon the throne of the storm kings of old.
No man can truly know what Borros Baratheon was feeling at that moment. The accounts of those who were there differ markedly one from the other. Some say his lordship was red-faced and abashed, as a man might be if his lawful wife found him abed with another woman. Others declare that Borros appeared to be relishing the moment, for it pleased his vanity to have both king and queen seeking his support. Mushroom (who was not there) says he was drunk. Septon Eustace (who was not there) says he was fearful.
Yet all the witnesses agree on what Lord Borros said and did. Never a man of letters, he handed the queen’s letter to his maester, who cracked the seal and whispered the message into his lordship’s ear. A frown stole across Lord Borros’s face. He stroked his beard, scowled at Lucerys Velaryon, and said, “And if I do as your mother bids, which one of my daughters will you marry, boy?” He gestured at the four girls. “Pick one.”
Prince Lucerys could only blush. “My lord, I am not free to marry,” he replied. “I am betrothed to my cousin Rhaena.”
“I thought as much,” Lord Borros said. “Go home, pup, and tell the bitch your mother that the Lord of Storm’s End is not a dog that she can whistle up at need to set against her foes.” And Prince Lucerys turned to take his leave of the Round Hall.
But Prince Aemond drew his sword and said, “Hold, Strong. First pay the debt you owe me.” Then he tore off his eye patch and flung it to the floor, to show the sapphire beneath. “You have a knife, just as you did then. Put out your eye, and I will let you leave. One will serve. I would not blind you.”
Prince Lucerys recalled his promise to his mother. “I will not fight you. I came here as an envoy, not a knight.”
“You came here as a craven and a traitor,” Prince Aemond answered. “I will have your eye or your life, Strong.”
This is like a character defining moment for Aemond in the books. He is just like Daemon in multiple ways, cold, ruthless to his enemies while being fearlessly loyal and protective of his side.
And I never called it "bad writing" or anything - I simply said that I personally did not like this change like the many others in the show: Laena's death, Laenor's "death", the "Aegon" misunderstanding b/w Alicent & Viserys, taking away some of the iconic stuff Rhaenyra & Alicent say in the books, involving Daemon's daughters when Aemond claimed Vhagar etc,.
The Greens & the Blacks have been against each other for almost decades at this point - to say that Aegon's coronation was not a power grab (in which Alicent was explicitly involved in the books) & the official start of the Dance at Storm's End being an accident - you are effectively taking away key character moments from a host of characters who drove the situation to that point and blaming it all on accidents & misunderstandings.
In an attempt to make all characters more human & relatable, they are essentially changing their key motivations & actions which makes them look like indecisive airheads who can't make a decision to save their lives at the end of it. Which is why I asked, had Jaime hesitated & Bran slipped - would Jaime's character arc be any good?
Atp, the show changed so much that it can very well be considered the showrunner's interpretation of the events of the Dance & not what the books say.
It really doesn't, you don't openly say that you're gonna take someone's life & then chase them with a Dragon 50x the size of their own and then suddenly not want to kill them.
Plus, the "bullying" that you're talking about is infantile stuff which was started by Aegon in the first place lol. Do you honestly expect Aemond to hold onto a grudge that's almost a decade old, during a time where war was all but inevitable, and when his side was in a severe Dragon deficit - to just chase Luke to bully him back and not take his and his Dragon's life?
Which again can be executed well by the showrunners provided they change further events to fit the story they are telling. I just personally don't like the decision (as of now).
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Yep.
That being an accident & Aegon's coronation being based on a "misunderstanding" makes the Dance itself look pointless.
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