[FNZ] Role Madness Round 08: Tokyo Ghoul

[Yo Tan Wa]

Kiwi meta till that last post was a bit defensive and diplomatic which not her usual townie game play.

Last time your reads about players playstyle was on point, i will consider Kiwi a possible scum for nw.

1. @Don DaSlayer
2. @LANJI CUCKSMOKE
3. @Finalbeta
9. @Rej
11. @playa4321
12. @All_Red
Give us your opinion guys.

16. @NeutralWatcher you are bit more inactive than last time(?)
18. @Seraphoenix what are your readings so far.

 

[Reborn]

bogard's reaction to tac's "mistake" was over the top, then he just voted tac and left
tac brought up shit that happened last game. why? tac complained when people did this last game, but now he is using that "strategy" just to save his ass
everything here smells fishy, it seems to me like they are just acting
and the only result of the scene they are making will be: if one of them flip scum, everyone will just assume the other one is a confirmed town, that's too convenient for mafia

Two Scums going at each other right at the beginning of 48 hours day phase seem less likely.

Also, Bogard was hell bent on pushing tac case as if he was sure he caught scum. I have played with Bogard when he was both scum and townie. As scum he is quite Smart so I doubt he will take such huge risk of pushing someone's Lynch so early at the cost of highlighting himself.

Also, If two Scums would go after eachother then they would still try to maintain some distance instead of one being hell bent on lynching other that too so Early in 20 players game and on first day being 48 hours.


Btw, Bogard didn't leave abruptly after vote. It's night time at his place and he could be sleeping so I won't look much into Bogard leaving

Pretty late here, so going to sleep

And, tac respond isn't enough to cast him as scum

 

[NeutralWatcher]

@Bogard gives me Townie vibe. He definitely pushed tac case hard but I think that's more because of his meta reads on tac which he picked and it doesn't brand him scum.



@TheAncientCenturion I don't see him as townie as of now. His arguments aren't so convincing enough for me. However, lynchin him based on that is tin foil and doesn't make sense.

I would be More cautious of players who tried to take advantage of this situation than Bogard and tac themselves.

@Dragomir you put Bogard and tac as townie and I understand your reasoning.

But what makes you think there is scum among kiwi/Celestia/cinera?

Also tell me what you think of final safe play?


@Jew D. Boy @HA001 @LANJI CUCKSMOKE I understand that you guys don't want to repeat what happened in last game but you guys have to understand that every game is different. You can be cautious but don't push aside Bogard vs tac as something similar to what happened in last game. That's not keeping open mind.

Also, putting vote so early don't amount to lynching.


@Rej @Yo Tan Wa @NeutralWatcher @All_Red @playa4321 @Seraphoenix @RayanOO @Queen give me your reads on Bogard vs tac situation and on othe players

Tbf I was the first one to bring 48 hours since I thought each day phase lasts for 48 hours. TAC said he read OP but he did't read 48 hours part and I find it weird. 48 hours is clearly mentioned in both OP and write up.

Don't want to bring up previous game but he was very informative and in this game he asked for information from me.

Last time your reads about players playstyle was on point, i will consider Kiwi a possible scum for nw.

1. @Don DaSlayer
2. @LANJI CUCKSMOKE
3. @Finalbeta
9. @Rej
11. @playa4321
12. @All_Red
Give us your opinion guys.

16. @NeutralWatcher you are bit more inactive than last time(?)
18. @Seraphoenix what are your readings so far.

I don't know which one of use is scum. I active in scum hunting when I know which one of us is the most sus. I also haven't read Tokyo Ghoul and I want to see reaction and interaction of each players before deciding who to vote.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

absolutely no reason for me to believe two scums would draw attention to themselves like this on the first day. this is role madness , drawing attention to yourself makes a target for investigative role . my read on both as I have said before are both townies.


more curious as to why queen ,cinera are leaning scum.
dragomir and reborn's exchange is another one to look out for.
absolutely no one is above the cards. everyone is sus and treat this game as such.

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

Good morning guys :)

Give us your opinion guys.

@Reborn

A lot of thing happen here and I need to check again most details. For the part with Kiwi I can't say much but as someone who play a lot with Bogard and TaC I can say that we had manytimes that both attacking each other from the start xD. Because that I don't know how to feel about it, we should take more opinions about it.

Overall I make later a post about the user and which note I get from the post here.

 

[Ena]

absolutely no reason for me to believe two scums would draw attention to themselves like this on the first day. this is role madness , drawing attention to yourself makes a target for investigative role . my read on both as I have said before are both townies.


more curious as to why queen ,cinera are leaning scum.
dragomir and reborn's exchange is another one to look out for.
absolutely no one is above the cards. everyone is sus and treat this game as such.

you say no one is above the cards and everyone is sus yet you already have bogard and tac as townies?

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

you say no one is above the cards and everyone is sus yet you already have bogard and tac as townies?

my reads arent exactly gospel
neither is it something am 100% on
but thats what I lean on. doesnt mean the other possibility isnt there but its unlikely based on this
" this is role madness , drawing attention to yourself makes a target for investigative role . my read on both as I have said before are both townies."

 

[Finalbeta]

@Finalbeta @Celestia

You guys seem to think Bogard is pushing hard for tac.

Answer these questions

1) why a scum would push a case on someone so hard that too so early in 48 hours day phase


2) what your reads are on tac vs bogard situation

Weird that you are asking me this in that I explained my vision over their situation long in the thread before going to sleep.

Are you forcing for reads?

Either way it's

TAC = Lining town
Bogard = Lining scum

TAC's behaviour is pretty similar to the one he observed in the previous game, however it is still weird that he missed such a visible part, whilst Bogard instead isn't making sense by pushing the slip argument, since it's straight up illogical. So that renders him suspicious.

 

[Finalbeta]

I would like to point something about Dragomir.

It doesn't strike me right that an experienced player like him is failing to notice that Bogard's offence is not right.

He is keeping push the town vs town scenery relentlessly, as if he is almost sure of it. Whereas points are against Bogard thus far.

Also when @Yo Tan Wa made him notice how his intro was a bit off, he answered with a "don't nitpick me" when a player generally has all the right to do that.

Not the Drago I know.

 

[Dragomir]

I would like to point something about Dragomir.

It doesn't strike me right that an experienced player like him is failing to notice that Bogard's offence is not right.

He is keeping push the town vs town scenery relentlessly, as if he is almost sure of it. Whereas points are against Bogard thus far.

Also when @Yo Tan Wa made him notice how his intro was a bit off, he answered with a "don't nitpick me" when a player generally has all the right to do that.

Not the Drago I know.

Don't start nitpicking now

 

[Dragomir]

Adding Lanji and Queen to my town core. Feeling pretty good about my town reads right now.

 

[Bogard]

Ok just woke up now, seems like i have pages to catch up to. I'd go into details as to why i voted TAC before going to sleep later

 

[Seraphoenix]

Alright I am set to go....

you will watch few episodes to learn about game.
That's so nice of you.

Do share what you learnt after that. I will wait

I watched the first three and basically:
-The Main Character seems to be the only half-ghoul
-He is helped by full ghouls
-There is also a 'bad' ghoul who tries to kill the MC and his friend
-The MC's best friend is a human
-There are also police who hunt ghouls though some of them are made to look like bad guys

So there is space for mafia and a lot of indies imo based on what I watched so far.

 

[Seraphoenix]

Last time your reads about players playstyle was on point, i will consider Kiwi a possible scum for nw.

1. @Don DaSlayer
2. @LANJI CUCKSMOKE
3. @Finalbeta
9. @Rej
11. @playa4321
12. @All_Red
Give us your opinion guys.

16. @NeutralWatcher you are bit more inactive than last time(?)
18. @Seraphoenix what are your readings so far.

@Bogard gives me Townie vibe. He definitely pushed tac case hard but I think that's more because of his meta reads on tac which he picked and it doesn't brand him scum.



@TheAncientCenturion I don't see him as townie as of now. His arguments aren't so convincing enough for me. However, lynchin him based on that is tin foil and doesn't make sense.

I would be More cautious of players who tried to take advantage of this situation than Bogard and tac themselves.

@Dragomir you put Bogard and tac as townie and I understand your reasoning.

But what makes you think there is scum among kiwi/Celestia/cinera?

Also tell me what you think of final safe play?


@Jew D. Boy @HA001 @LANJI CUCKSMOKE I understand that you guys don't want to repeat what happened in last game but you guys have to understand that every game is different. You can be cautious but don't push aside Bogard vs tac as something similar to what happened in last game. That's not keeping open mind.

Also, putting vote so early don't amount to lynching.


@Rej @Yo Tan Wa @NeutralWatcher @All_Red @playa4321 @Seraphoenix @RayanOO @Queen give me your reads on Bogard vs tac situation and on othe players

@Queen @Reborn @Seraphoenix @Don DaSlayer @Dragomir
any comments so far

I'll first have to read all 14 pages

I hope there is something worthwhile in so many pages

 

[Seraphoenix]

Even though I haven't read everything I see there is a lynch vote. Has Neutral sussed Bogard for this? He was adamant last game that a Lynch D1 is sus.

 

[Celestia]

I'm not twisting anything lol. You explicitly said that his reasons are forced. I've been asking you why it was forced. You have literally failed to explain that. You can think that it's weak or whatnot, that's fine but weak reasons =/= forced reasons. Then, you wanted to act as if he could still be genuine and town with forced reasoning. Like no. That's not possible. Forced and genuine are antonyms, a townie can't have a forced reason, it means their case is fake and why would a townie fake a case? You cannot suggest that Bogard can still be town or scum with forced reasoning.

If you don't think they're forced, just tell me. It's not that hard. You find the case weak? That's cool. Now, what does that tell you about Bogard? Do you think his weak case is coming from a town or scum?

I explained already what make it forced you seems like u ignoring my posts and just wanna focus on the word forced
It was weak and forced to me cuz he kept on being aggressive on him for something small and then when tac responds he is like I was joking but u now seems sus
Seemed like whatever TAC gonna reply he had set his mind on him being scum

Also wth drago I am not native why you still going on about how they are antonyms I already said what I mean yet you still go back to this
Cinera and Yon Tan Wa said the same word why you ain't making a big thing of it
What are you trying to achieve ? Cuz it don't look good at all this approach

Bogard is either a excited town who is overdoing it or a flop scum who thought it was a good case and went with being aggressive
He didn't post much out of that I can't say which I am more leaning on yet

@Finalbeta @Celestia

You guys seem to think Bogard is pushing hard for tac.

Answer these questions

1) why a scum would push a case on someone so hard that too so early in 48 hours day phase


2) what your reads are on tac vs bogard situation

I didn't put Bogard as scum yet
But you know in a long phase 48 what is said early actually might not be more memorable from my experience things gets heated when it is closer to day end and anything will get more attention and might cost in a lynch toward the end

Like I said before I don't like why Bogard is pushing TAC it seems so trivial

Bogard could either be town/scum maybe after last game he thought that TAC might be easy mislynch and went for that or he thought genuinely he caught him slipping

Still the case and narrative is bad
Tac on the other hand I didn't see anything bad about what he said this game I am more leaning towards him being town, I understands where his frustrations is coming from

scum would more likely ignore the accusations and won't bother with arguing this much
But there could also be possibility about him not being town but for now I am more convinced by his reactions

Bringing past game act to defend yourself in on going game is lame reason and hold no credibility.

To me it implies more of scummy move than townie

from what I heard he got lynched day 1 last game cuz of unnecessary arguments? if he is also a town in this game then he ofc will be mad about same thing happening to him it seems more genuine he mentioned it
U saying it is scummy move don't have much logic in it, why you think that ?

hmm this is an interesting point. Can you expand on what you mean by take advantage of the situation?

So far, the reactions I saw were:
a) Bogard is scummy (FB, Celestia, Cinera)
b) Bogard has a point (Reborn)
c) they're both town (Me, Drago)
d) No opinion but Bogard should unvote (Jew, Don, HA001)

So which category would be consider take advantage?


Eh alright, fair enough. I wasn't really feeling the Bogard vs TAC argument and the other player's posts felt a bit like a echo chamber of "don't vote D1" so I didn't have much to say.


What are you trying to imply?

I didn't say he was scum.

 

[Dragomir]

I've decided to reread this entire game before I sleep and try to see if I can come up with any new thoughts.

And yes, I'm frustrated. As I said again. Not because you've outed me due to that keen sixth sense you have Bogard, but because my second comment (first comment on the game, as my actual first comment was about just getting online) is being broken down as some hidden scum agenda for absolutely no fucking reason.

And the more I explain this to you, the more obtuse you get and persistent that I did something wrong by asking a basic question.

I didn't fuck up. I was helping new players. Jesus fucking Christ.

I didn't even get to play this game before Bogard comes at me.

These two posts from TAC are reinforcing my TvT read. @Queen you told me that TAC faked his frustration in the last game you played scum with him. While that may have been true, he was a jester in that game. He had to fake everything to look as suspicious as he can. We have no jesters in this game(highly doubt it, if there were any, Noctis would have mentioned it). Mafia has no need to fake frustration. They don't need to fake anything besides productivity so it's likely that TAC is actually genuinely frustrated for either alignment. He can be a frustrated townie cause he's being suspected for poor reasoning, or he can be a frustrated mafia for the same thing. I have been both, we will all be both one day.

I want you to read these two posts and really tell me if he's faking his frustration here. His reasons for being frustrated are legit. Bogard is attacking him for a really small thing that isn't alignment indicative at all. Bogard is tunneling him on a weak premise. With these things in mind, it makes sense for him to be frustrated. That "Jesus fucking Christ" in the 2nd post really speaks to his genuineness even more. It's a reaction that I would definitely be having in his case.

Now, again for Bogard. He really thinks he caught TAC in a slip. His progression with his read is legit and he is not beating around the bush about it. He is coming across as a townie that thinks they're on the right path and thus continue walking that path. I'm having major troubles seeing a scenario where he is scum and doing all this.

One last thing Queen, I do appreciate your hot take on them both being SvS faking an interaction to distance, it's super unlikely. They are going at each other's throats hard. TAC was frustrated by the reasoning that Bogard was conjuring up. Bogard really thought he caught TAC in a slip. The possibility of these two guys bussing each other is out in the dumpster. Never would a mafia bus each other for no reason so early in D1. Bussing would only occur in later phases or at the end of a phase in order to gain town cred. For example, at EoD when there are two wagons and one buddy votes for his own buddy's wagon when they didn't have to. That would be done to make it look one they're(the guy bussing) is town because he did something so insane at EoD. Another scenario would be later in the game when the buddy is gathering heat but not too much for a wagon so one other buddy makes a hard push to get maximum town cred. Bogard vs TAC this phase is not at all any of these things. TAC was never going to be suspected for what Bogard called him out for. Bogard has zero to come at him. You only bus if it puts you in an advantageous position to win the game. Going after your buddy at the start of D1 doesn't do that. You make winning harder.

 

[Dragomir]

I explained already what make it forced you seems like u ignoring my posts and just wanna focus on the word forced
It was weak and forced to me cuz he kept on being aggressive on him for something small and then when tac responds he is like I was joking but u now seems sus
Seemed like whatever TAC gonna reply he had set his mind on him being scum

Also wth drago I am not native why you still going on about how they are antonyms I already said what I mean yet you still go back to this
Cinera and Yon Tan Wa said the same word why you ain't making a big thing of it
What are you trying to achieve ? Cuz it don't look good at all this approach

Bogard is either a excited town who is overdoing it or a flop scum who thought it was a good case and went with being aggressive
He didn't post much out of that I can't say which I am more leaning on yet

Forget about our whole interaction ok? I think you look fine.

 

[Celestia]

I am here to carry town with the fullest content of my heart, let's do it bois

Here to carry town yet still to do anything?

 

[NeutralWatcher]

Even though I haven't read everything I see there is a lynch vote. Has Neutral sussed Bogard for this? He was adamant last game that a Lynch D1 is sus.

I didn't sus Bogard. There is still not enough info to lynch. Why are you thinking that I sus Bogard? Also it seems like you want to portray me to have different meta in this game because according to you my meta in last game is no lynch on D1 while in this game you said I sus Bogard.

I asked if it's better for no lynch since there is no claim in this game.

Wouldn't it be safe for no lynch since no claim in this game?

Depends. As seen with the other game, it only takes one player to mess it up last minute. Moreover, even if mislynches costs, no lynch costs too. Mislynch could provide info and help with night phase and reads. It’s up to town to decide to be a sitting duck or to take action.

but don’t take this as an encouragement to lynch someone just for the sake of it. We have 48 hours to figure something out, I think something is ought to come up. There is always going to be a person more suspicious than others

There isn't any.

No. It being no claim is more of a reason for why we should lynch someone.