Anyone else finds Andrew Tate's downfall absolutely hilarious?

[Logiko]

You can't reason with such people.

That's an existentialistic point of view. Here, I only see a enigma, I don't see the impossibility of a solution. Plus, what you are talking about are people that represent a very scares % of the carceral population. The majority of criminals do not have pathological problems.


That Pizza turd, for example, is most probably not a psychopath, he is just very very.. very .. VERY VERY Toxic man.

That's something we can work on. With hard work of course, but that's not impossible.

 

[Cross_Marian]

That's an existentialistic point of view. Here, I only see a enigma, I don't see the impossibility of a solution. Plus, what you are talking about are people that represent a very scares % of the carceral population. The majority of criminals do not have pathological problems.


That Pizza turd, for example, is most probably not a psychopath, he is just very very.. very .. VERY VERY Toxic man.

That's something we can work on. With hard work of course, but that's not impossible.

Try to work on rapists, sociopaths, racists/nazis and terrorists like ISIS
Good luck but I’m sure that they would behead you and rape or enslave some woman instead

 

[Logiko]

Try to work on rapists, sociopaths, racists/nazis and terrorists like ISIS
Good luck but I’m sure that they would behead you and rape or enslave some woman instead

I didn't say that it would be easy.

To do such work, we would need to create a lot of structural changes in society, we would need to make a LOT of researches on the radicalization process, we would need to do that worldwide, we would need to live already antipatriarcal society, we would need to develop education... etc.

There is no shortcut in the process of creating a better society. It will be hard, it will be painfull, but it's necessary.

And this potentiality is better than everything the current society has to offer in term of responce to crimes.

 

[Cross_Marian]

I didn't say that it would be easy.

To do such work, we would need to create a lot of structural changes in society, we would need to make a LOT of researches on the radicalization process, we would need to do that worldwide, we would need to live already antipatriarcal society, we would need to develop education... etc.

There is no shortcut in the process of creating a better society. It will be hard, it will be painfull, but it's necessary.

And this potentiality is better than everything the current society has to offer in term of responce to crimes.

But people like them (ISIS) are against the development of education for example. You need to get rid of them
Germany is also for example an educated and democratic country but that doesn’t hinder people from doing bad things per se
There are still "educated" bankers who fuck prostitutes who are full of drugs and are forced to do the job.
Education etc. helps, yes I know that but there are truly evil people with no remorse in this society
You CANNOT change them, they will always abuse every single system
Erdogan used democracy to climb up the stairs and is now ruling like a dictator
There’s a difference between a poor child who steals stuff to survive and a corrupt and educated man who robs the poor and shits on his employee
They will beg for their life but kill you from behind it you show mercy
They’re scum and only deserve a heavy punishment
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The bad won’t change
It’s not because their mind is "blind"
It’s a blindness of the heart
There’s a difference between people who had a bad life and deserve a chance and people who are evil

 

[Logiko]

You need to get rid of them

No, you just need to developp education more. You need to fight regression with awareness, bigotery with education. Crime with humanitarian work. It won't be easy, but it's not impossible.

No country is lost until everyone is dead.

Erdogan used democracy to climb up the stairs and is now ruling like a dictator

No, he used bias, bigotery and conservatism.

Dictator don't rise up because of democracy, they rise because of the laziness of people in front of hatred.

You CANNOT change them, they will always abuse every single system

That's an essentialist point of view. I'm against that type of vision. Sorry. This is not how reality work. People are not evil by nature.

There’s a difference between a poor child who steals stuff to survive and a corrupt and educated man who robs the poor and shits on his employee

Yes, one is toxic because of various reason, the other is just trying to survive.

There are still "educated" bankers who fuck prostitutes who are full of drugs and are forced to do the job.

They’re scum and only deserve a heavy punishment

Not in my book. And that's not a pratical way to look at the future to create a better society.

They may be educated on one subject, they lack social intelligence. And social intelligence is something that you can aquire, that you can developp. So those bankers you are talking about are no different that Kids in school.

What we must do is a HUGE structural changes. No, not huge. RADICAL.

So what you think about education right now...

Forget it.

Because the world of tomorrow will look like an extraterrial world to us.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

That's an existentialistic point of view. Here, I only see a enigma, I don't see the impossibility of a solution. Plus, what you are talking about are people that represent a very scares % of the carceral population. The majority of criminals do not have pathological problems.


That Pizza turd, for example, is most probably not a psychopath, he is just very very.. very .. VERY VERY Toxic man.

That's something we can work on. With hard work of course, but that's not impossible.

Tate sounds more like a narcissist to me.


You should watch the movie 'Adam's apples'
It's a satire that shows where the belief in every human's good core leads to.

 

[Logiko]

Tate sounds more like a narcissist to me.


You should watch the movie 'Adam's apples'
It's a satire that shows where the belief in every human's good core leads to.

Well.. that's the thing. I'm not believing in human here.
I was like that when I was younger but I came to understand that this belief was pointless.

What I believe in is the POTENTIAL of humans and what we create. Science, psychology, politics are all establish fact. Those are things that we can rely on to understand the potential of the future of humanity.

I believe that we have the potential to do good. I do personnaly am very optimistic on that front, but it could very well go the other way.
If we do nothing for example and if we keep the current system and the current beliefs on human nature, we won't go far as right now, human don't believe in change, they are for the most part existantialist and fatalist.

I'm not. And I do believe that with a strong work (i don't know which one) that Pizza turd would be able to at least work on himself and reflect.

 

[Flower]

Tbh just stop giving people like him attention. They only have so much bad influence because people give them a stage to perform on and broadcast their crap.

 

[Adam 🍎]

Tbh just stop giving people like him attention. They only have so much bad influence because people give them a stage to perform on and broadcast their crap.

If he wasn't in the spotlight his trafficking ring wouldn't be discovered that easily

 

[Flower]

If he wasn't in the spotlight his trafficking ring wouldn't be discovered that easily

I meant in general. In this case the attention helped, but in other cases it is bad influence on kids and teens.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Evil people don't exist. It's just a coping mechanism we create to separate ourselves from people who do bad things.

Evil actions yes, those do exist. Evil people, no. People are human, human are neither good or evil, they are just the product of their biology and their society.

Let's start by understanding that and we will be able to move on more freelly. Violence can be indeed a necessity, but "necessity" is just the past name for "justice". It's future one is "change".

So like i said: If you want to really open up the future, don't seek violence, seek change, seek for humanity.

Death sentence are not a necessity neither are they a solution. Prison, right now might be a necessity but they are not the solution either.. that's why we must go beyond.

Toward humanity, toward change.

First step: stop deshumanizing criminals.

But also.. stop giving them a tribune.

Close the thread.

Don't think people realize how horrible prison is. At least for most people who aren't rich like Andrew Tate.

Like normal people who commit the types of crimes that Tate commits usually spend their entire lives behind bars, or spend several decades incarcerated and then are let go, have little to no employment opportunities, and end up homeless.

Now, a lot of violent criminals legitimately do deserve lengthy sentences like that. But it mildly irritates me when people say the punishment needs to be more brutal. Like no, prison is horrible, and even doing a few days in prison is probably a horrible experience.

If you're spending 5, 10 years in prison or more, you're life is probably horrible. Probably even worse than the people you hurt. So I think in many cases, the average convicted criminal either gets what they deserve, or more often, is punished far more than is really necessary because that's how the system is designed.
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At least in America, politicians and the american public is far more interested in stopping crime via means of brutality than any other method.

And this is largely because crime is often associated by the general public with the lower class. Poor people and people of color, people who already tend to be dehumanized to certain extents in society. And so the american public has very little remorse for criminals and views violence and brutality as the end all be all method of stopping crime.

And while extreme sentencing and overpolicing can reduce crime rates, it fails to address any of the underlying problems that cause crime. It also creates a system that is isn't just. Andrew Tate is rich and at least partially due to this, he had multiple allegations against him that the police simply never prosecuted. You can't tell me that the same would be true if he was a homeless man. No, if he was homeless, they might have locked him up even if he didn't do it.
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In any case, fuck andrew tate. This man is a cancer to society. He hurt countless people and truly deserves to be locked up forever for the shit he did.

 

[Logiko]

Don't think people realize how horrible prison is. At least for most people who aren't rich like Andrew Tate.

Like normal people who commit the types of crimes that Tate commits usually spend their entire lives behind bars, or spend several decades incarcerated and then are let go, have little to no employment opportunities, and end up homeless.

Now, a lot of violent criminals legitimately do deserve lengthy sentences like that. But it mildly irritates me when people say the punishment needs to be more brutal. Like no, prison is horrible, and even doing a few days in prison is probably a horrible experience.

If you're spending 5, 10 years in prison or more, you're life is probably horrible. Probably even worse than the people you hurt. So I think in many cases, the average convicted criminal either gets what they deserve, or more often, is punished far more than is really necessary because that's how the system is designed.
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At least in America, politicians and the american public is far more interested in stopping crime via means of brutality than any other method.

And this is largely because crime is often associated by the general public with the lower class. Poor people and people of color, people who already tend to be dehumanized to certain extents in society. And so the american public has very little remorse for criminals and views violence and brutality as the end all be all method of stopping crime.

And while extreme sentencing and overpolicing can reduce crime rates, it fails to address any of the underlying problems that cause crime. It also creates a system that is isn't just. Andrew Tate is rich and at least partially due to this, he had multiple allegations against him that the police simply never prosecuted. You can't tell me that the same would be true if he was a homeless man. No, if he was homeless, they might have locked him up even if he didn't do it.

Exactly. Prisons will probably be seen in a centuries or two in the same light we are seeing the talion law today

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Nah

And I do believe that with a strong work (i don't know which one) that Pizza turd would be able to at least work on himself and reflect.

 

[Logiko]

Nah

Let's be optimistic for a change

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Let's be optimistic for a change

You gotta come to terms with the fact that not every person can change
They don't want to change because they think they're the greatest ever

 

[copiumoncope]

2022 was a great year

 

[Uncle Van]

Don't think people realize how horrible prison is. At least for most people who aren't rich like Andrew Tate.

Like normal people who commit the types of crimes that Tate commits usually spend their entire lives behind bars, or spend several decades incarcerated and then are let go, have little to no employment opportunities, and end up homeless.

Now, a lot of violent criminals legitimately do deserve lengthy sentences like that. But it mildly irritates me when people say the punishment needs to be more brutal. Like no, prison is horrible, and even doing a few days in prison is probably a horrible experience.

If you're spending 5, 10 years in prison or more, you're life is probably horrible. Probably even worse than the people you hurt. So I think in many cases, the average convicted criminal either gets what they deserve, or more often, is punished far more than is really necessary because that's how the system is designed.
[automerge]1673893156[/automerge]
At least in America, politicians and the american public is far more interested in stopping crime via means of brutality than any other method.

And this is largely because crime is often associated by the general public with the lower class. Poor people and people of color, people who already tend to be dehumanized to certain extents in society. And so the american public has very little remorse for criminals and views violence and brutality as the end all be all method of stopping crime.

And while extreme sentencing and overpolicing can reduce crime rates, it fails to address any of the underlying problems that cause crime. It also creates a system that is isn't just. Andrew Tate is rich and at least partially due to this, he had multiple allegations against him that the police simply never prosecuted. You can't tell me that the same would be true if he was a homeless man. No, if he was homeless, they might have locked him up even if he didn't do it.
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In any case, fuck andrew tate. This man is a cancer to society. He hurt countless people and truly deserves to be locked up forever for the shit he did.

The Nixon and Reagon administration initiated and oushed the war on drugs to incarcerate people of color(Reagan's advisor admitted ut)it. They locked up so many that ran out of room and had to go to the private sector. With the amount of privately owned prisons, they demand a minimum incarceration rate(at least 94% at all time) and give the state some funding in return. This system literally encourages punishment over rehabilitation cause it will keep the prisoners coming back and filling the quota, making the people in charge richer.

In America, it will always be about power and profit first.

 

[Logiko]

You gotta come to terms with the fact that not every person can change
They don't want to change because they think they're the greatest ever

Everyone can change, to be at least decent human being. Now, it will take longer for some than other, of course, but we can do that.

Sometime, not much is needed, even in seemingly lost causes like the Pizza Turd. All we need is a spark.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

With the amount of privately owned prisons, they demand a minimum incarceration rate(at least 94% at all time) and give the state some funding in return. This system literally encourages punishment over rehabilitation cause it will keep the prisoners coming back and filling the quota, making the people in charge richer.

Ironic how the Land of the Free turned into a prison state.

Everyone can change, to be at least decent human being. Now, it will take longer for some than other, of course, but we can do that.

Sometime, not much is needed, even in seemingly lost causes like the Pizza Turd. All we need is a spark.

Point is these guys have zero will to change. They don't care about your opinion on what is good. They care only about themselves and their own satisfaction.

 

[Logiko]

Point is these guys have zero will to change. They don't care about your opinion on what is good. They care only about themselves and their own satisfaction.

That's why we need to change the entire system. Those people will mostly change by interest. If they discover that there point of view doesn't get them enough clout, they will move on to the next best thing.

So, if we manage to structure the society more positively and we succeed in creating an example of prosperity, then it will only be a matter of time before those people soften up by sheer environmental pressure.

This is what happened to the right wing with homosexuals issues in my country after the legalization of gay mariages. When they were completely against it a decade or so ago, they have now partly embraced it by interest. In short, we managed to make them change their mind (at least partly) by sheer environmental and representative pressure.