Fanclub Temple of The Grandmaster Zoro
The grandmaster using conqueror's haki on Enma
:zorothink:
:zorothink:
My headcanon is that the mindfuckery Zoro did to Monet is an advanced application of COC, and Mihawk is even more skilled with it.
Zoro could paralyse Monet and shut down her devil fruit abilities. Fodder control COC ain't got shit on that.
Just imagine Mihawk facing another strong DF user, and he's able to disturb the use of their devil fruit power with his killing intent.
The swordsmen are just too stronk.
Zoro could paralyse Monet and shut down her devil fruit abilities. Fodder control COC ain't got shit on that.
Just imagine Mihawk facing another strong DF user, and he's able to disturb the use of their devil fruit power with his killing intent.
The swordsmen are just too stronk.
Anyway, I definitely think Zoro has shown it and the pattern Zoro showed is similar to COC
FIrst let us address what COC is:
- COC intimidates people
- COC is measured by its user's spirit and nothing more.
We have seen different people sensing Zoro's spirit/aura and some compared him to an animal.:
As you can see, different people sensed Zoro's spirit and it was not normal and is represented by a large scary animal. Kaku and Ushimaru were intimidate/scared by the aura, whereas Ryuma was excited to face someone with such an aura.
Now, let us address the pattern Oda normally uses for COC when he decided to focus on the face of the COC user. This pattern has stayed the same since the first time it was used in the begining of the story (BOS) all the way to postTS.:
- Before COC usage: The COC user, has their normal eyes before activating COC
- During COC usage: The COC user's pupils change. It has a pupil that is surrounded by a white ring and black ring. (The COC victim's eyes also change.)
- After COC usage: The COC user's eyes go back to normal
PreTS:
TS:
PostTS:
Now let us look at Zoro:
Zoro vs Monet
Zoro vs Enma
Cracker, has shown a unique ability that is similar to coc but not coc. This ability doesn't follow the COC pattern that has been established. We also have the fact that Luffy also said it is not COC.
Cracker's eyes stayed the same the entire time. his eyes, before, during and after the usage of his ability remained the same.
So yes, Zoro definitely does have COC. Oda is just waiting for some reason to tell us.
@Den_Den_Mushi, may you please translate the onomatopoeia/sfx used for he above.
- Shanks vs Lord of coast, Zoro vs enma look the same
- Luffy vs kuja sisters, Zoro vs Monet look the same
- Luffy vs fishmen, Rayleigh vs elephant, Luffy vs beast pirates look the same
Here are some I found.
I am not 100 percent sure each of them indicate coc, like Luffy vs Chinjao, or Luffy passed out, or Mingo. The rest should indicate it.
I am not 100 percent sure each of them indicate coc, like Luffy vs Chinjao, or Luffy passed out, or Mingo. The rest should indicate it.
Yeah that's right, nice catch!
SFX here reads ใฎใญ which is a sudden glare
And the ones here read ใดใชใฉwhich represent a menacing aura. Very curious, Oda. Very interesting... :unsure:
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I had made a post about Zoro having COC a while back.
Anyway, I definitely think Zoro has shown it and the pattern Zoro showed is similar to COC
FIrst let us address what COC is:
We have seen different people sensing Zoro's spirit/aura and some compared him to an animal.:
As you can see, different people sensed Zoro's spirit and it was not normal and is represented by a large scary animal. Kaku and Ushimaru were intimidate/scared by the aura, whereas Ryuma was excited to face someone with such an aura.
Now, let us address the pattern Oda normally uses for COC when he decided to focus on the face of the COC user. This pattern has stayed the same since the first time it was used in the begining of the story (BOS) all the way to postTS.:
PreTS:
TS:
PostTS:
Now let us look at Zoro:
Zoro vs Monet
Zoro vs Enma
Cracker, has shown a unique ability that is similar to coc but not coc. This ability doesn't follow the COC pattern that has been established. We also have the fact that Luffy also said it is not COC.
Cracker's eyes stayed the same the entire time. his eyes, before, during and after the usage of his ability remained the same.
So yes, Zoro definitely does have COC. Oda is just waiting for some reason to tell us.
@Den_Den_Mushi, may you please translate the onomatopoeia/sfx used for he above.
Anyway, I definitely think Zoro has shown it and the pattern Zoro showed is similar to COC
FIrst let us address what COC is:
- COC intimidates people
- COC is measured by its user's spirit and nothing more.
We have seen different people sensing Zoro's spirit/aura and some compared him to an animal.:
As you can see, different people sensed Zoro's spirit and it was not normal and is represented by a large scary animal. Kaku and Ushimaru were intimidate/scared by the aura, whereas Ryuma was excited to face someone with such an aura.
Now, let us address the pattern Oda normally uses for COC when he decided to focus on the face of the COC user. This pattern has stayed the same since the first time it was used in the begining of the story (BOS) all the way to postTS.:
- Before COC usage: The COC user, has their normal eyes before activating COC
- During COC usage: The COC user's pupils change. It has a pupil that is surrounded by a white ring and black ring. (The COC victim's eyes also change.)
- After COC usage: The COC user's eyes go back to normal
PreTS:
TS:
PostTS:
Now let us look at Zoro:
Zoro vs Monet
Zoro vs Enma
Cracker, has shown a unique ability that is similar to coc but not coc. This ability doesn't follow the COC pattern that has been established. We also have the fact that Luffy also said it is not COC.
Cracker's eyes stayed the same the entire time. his eyes, before, during and after the usage of his ability remained the same.
So yes, Zoro definitely does have COC. Oda is just waiting for some reason to tell us.
@Den_Den_Mushi, may you please translate the onomatopoeia/sfx used for he above.
- Shanks vs Lord of coast, Zoro vs enma look the same
- Luffy vs kuja sisters, Zoro vs Monet look the same
- Luffy vs fishmen, Rayleigh vs elephant, Luffy vs beast pirates look the same
I do agree with the pattern. But perhaps it's merely a necessary condition for the application of COC and not a sufficient one.
Asura, is definitely a haki based technique and is created by COC.
Due to the fact that asura is a haki technique, I believe this is the reason why Oda has not yet reintroduced it. I have a feeling asura is a combination of all 3 types of haki.
Bruh, when we finally see asura again, all hell will break loose and the grandmaster's greatness will finally be displayed.
- Kaku stated it is created with Zoro's spirit
- Rayeligh stated COC is measured by the user's spirit
- We saw people sense Zoro's spririt. Kaku sensed it before they even started to fight. Same with Ryuma and Ushirama
Due to the fact that asura is a haki technique, I believe this is the reason why Oda has not yet reintroduced it. I have a feeling asura is a combination of all 3 types of haki.
- COC creates it
- COA allows it to manifest in the material plane and interact with physical things. Flow (Advanced COA) is used to make it as it appears outside of Zoro's body
- COO allows it to sense things, and talk. Below, you see Zoro's second head talking
Bruh, when we finally see asura again, all hell will break loose and the grandmaster's greatness will finally be displayed.
We know COC is an ability that intimidates people.
Cracker used a different ability that intimidated the homies that looks similar to COC but isn't. This is also coupled with the fact that Cracker ability doesn't follow the COC pattern.
As for your last point, one piece has been going on for over 20years, and the pattern for coc has stayed the same and no other ability in the series has displayed the pattern of coc, Cracker's ability included.
Cracker used a different ability that intimidated the homies that looks similar to COC but isn't. This is also coupled with the fact that Cracker ability doesn't follow the COC pattern.
As for your last point, one piece has been going on for over 20years, and the pattern for coc has stayed the same and no other ability in the series has displayed the pattern of coc, Cracker's ability included.
I disagree. The point with Cracker showed that fear manipulation is possible without haki involvement. Furthermore as far as Oda is retconning preskip powers into haki (e.g. the ability to hear the breath of all things), Asura doesn't really fit the bill for a COC ability IMO. It involves physical manifestations of your spirit/will/haki. That seems more compatible with what we've learned of colour of armaments haki (e.g creating invisible armour and barriers) than COC (overpowering others of a weaker will).
This is a non sequitur. That COC is measured by the user's spirit and Asura was created by Zoro's spirit does not at all imply that Asura is an application of COC. It doesn't even suggest it in the slightest. They aren't that related, beyond both involving Zoro's spirit. The common cause here would be the users spirit. It influences the strength of their Conqueror's haki and allows them to create physical manifestations of the spirit.
As an application of haki, it being a pseudo distinct form, or an application of armament makes the most sense. Your explanation of COO doesn't really hold water, why would COO enable speech? It has nothing to do with that. How would it be needed for sensing, when Zoro can already use COO to sense from his main body. Like there's not much reason to think COO is involved. Your explanation of COC's involvement is unconvincing and relies on a logical fallacy.
Overall, I think it's plausible that Asura is an application of haki (especially as Oda has retconned other previously distinct powers into applications of haki), but you didn't make a good case that it was an application of COC in particular.
- Kaku stated it is created with Zoro's spirit
- Rayeligh stated COC is measured by the user's spirit
Due to the fact that asura is a haki technique, I believe this is the reason why Oda has not yet reintroduced it. I have a feeling asura is a combination of all 3 types of haki.
- COC creates it
- COA allows it to manifest in the material plane and interact with physical things. Flow (Advanced COA) is used to make it as it appears outside of Zoro's body
- COO allows it to sense things, and talk. Below, you see Zoro's second head talking
Overall, I think it's plausible that Asura is an application of haki (especially as Oda has retconned other previously distinct powers into applications of haki), but you didn't make a good case that it was an application of COC in particular.
Luffy used COC while unconscious, so it's the first counterexample:
I will understand scepticism as Luffy was knocked out, but it's not the only counterexample.
Everytime Mihawk did anything of significance, his eyes were highlighted:
Mihawk's eye highlighting seems to follow the same COC pattern you described. That is another counterexample.
Zoro vs Monet, seems to more reflect Mihawk vs Luffy than any application of COC IMO (and especially so given all the Mihawk mirror situations Oda has constructed for postskip Zoro). Mihawk didn't seem to apply COC on Luffy, and even if he did, his eyes were also highlighted like that in other scenes.
At any rate, if fear projection was an application of COC, it would be different from the normal applications we've been introduced to so far. Cracker has shown us fear manipulation abilities that aren't haki. Only two people have clearly shown fear manipulation abilities, Zoro and Cracker. A potential third is Hawkeyes himself. What all three of them have in common is that they are all swordsmen of some skill. As of now, this fear manipulation seems to be a swordsmen exclusive skill (akin to the abillity to hear the breath of all things). At some point it may get retconned into an application of haki (and COC is indeed the best bet for that), but for now, it's premature to categorise it as COC.
I will understand scepticism as Luffy was knocked out, but it's not the only counterexample.
Everytime Mihawk did anything of significance, his eyes were highlighted:
Mihawk's eye highlighting seems to follow the same COC pattern you described. That is another counterexample.
Zoro vs Monet, seems to more reflect Mihawk vs Luffy than any application of COC IMO (and especially so given all the Mihawk mirror situations Oda has constructed for postskip Zoro). Mihawk didn't seem to apply COC on Luffy, and even if he did, his eyes were also highlighted like that in other scenes.
At any rate, if fear projection was an application of COC, it would be different from the normal applications we've been introduced to so far. Cracker has shown us fear manipulation abilities that aren't haki. Only two people have clearly shown fear manipulation abilities, Zoro and Cracker. A potential third is Hawkeyes himself. What all three of them have in common is that they are all swordsmen of some skill. As of now, this fear manipulation seems to be a swordsmen exclusive skill (akin to the abillity to hear the breath of all things). At some point it may get retconned into an application of haki (and COC is indeed the best bet for that), but for now, it's premature to categorise it as COC.
Yes, Cracker did show this, not denying it.
We have not gotten the explaination of what COC is other than the fact that it intimidates and is measured by spirit.
I do agree that the manifestarion of asura is a coa ability as normal people can see it.
Maybe we are seeing it from different angles. However, from how I see it, spirit is the measure of COC. We also know that not everyone has coc. Only those born with it have COC.
Therefore, people with out coc will not have the spirit that is used to measure it. (If you don't have current, you can't measure it using amps, you will have 0 amps reading which tells you there is no current flowing.)
You can't measure something you don't have and you can create something using the measurement of something you don't posses.
So asura can only exist if the user has coc as asura is created from the measure of coc
I agree that the physical manifestation of asura is a coa thing.
This doesn't take away from the fact that you need spirit to create it. Spirit, which is something only COC user's should have as it is a measure of COC
For COO I do agree that am reaching. I have no evidence for it which is why I said I think it is involved in asura, didn't say it was
As for COC, refer to the above
Refer to the above.
We have not gotten the explaination of what COC is other than the fact that it intimidates and is measured by spirit.
I do agree that the manifestarion of asura is a coa ability as normal people can see it.
Maybe we are seeing it from different angles. However, from how I see it, spirit is the measure of COC. We also know that not everyone has coc. Only those born with it have COC.
Therefore, people with out coc will not have the spirit that is used to measure it. (If you don't have current, you can't measure it using amps, you will have 0 amps reading which tells you there is no current flowing.)
You can't measure something you don't have and you can create something using the measurement of something you don't posses.
So asura can only exist if the user has coc as asura is created from the measure of coc
I agree that the physical manifestation of asura is a coa thing.
This doesn't take away from the fact that you need spirit to create it. Spirit, which is something only COC user's should have as it is a measure of COC
For COO I do agree that am reaching. I have no evidence for it which is why I said I think it is involved in asura, didn't say it was
As for COC, refer to the above
Refer to the above.
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Yeah, I think it could be retconned to a COC ability, but currently it seems to function differently. It feels more like leveraging one's "killing intent" or "fighting aura". This is often a separate ability in many franchises, but in One Piece it may not be sufficiently different from haki for Oda to distinguish them.
I think you're interpreting it wrongly. Everyone is born with haki. Most people never unlock it. Even fewer have the talent to wield their haki such as to exert dominance on the natural world. I think everyone has haki/spirit, but only the chosen few possess the ability to wield their haki in such a manner. This feels more congruent with Rayleigh's words.
I think you started from the false premise of: "only those who can use COC have spirit" and so reached a false conclusion.
I think you're interpreting it wrongly. Everyone is born with haki. Most people never unlock it. Even fewer have the talent to wield their haki such as to exert dominance on the natural world. I think everyone has haki/spirit, but only the chosen few possess the ability to wield their haki in such a manner. This feels more congruent with Rayleigh's words.
I think you started from the false premise of: "only those who can use COC have spirit" and so reached a false conclusion.
Luffy used COC while unconscious, so it's the first counterexample:
I will understand scepticism as Luffy was knocked out, but it's not the only counterexample.
I will understand scepticism as Luffy was knocked out, but it's not the only counterexample.
A better example would be when he used coc in Udon, wano whilst consious. This happened after the unconsious usage of COC
Everytime Mihawk did anything of significance, his eyes were highlighted:
Mihawk's eye highlighting seems to follow the same COC pattern you described. That is another counterexample.
Mihawk's eye highlighting seems to follow the same COC pattern you described. That is another counterexample.
Mihawks eyes never changed throughout that entire encounter against Luffy. They were the same before he fought Luffy, whilst he fought Luffy and after he fought Luffy. His eyes always look like they look in the panel below.
Whereas everytime COC has been used and Oda focused on the coc user's face, the eyes changed during the coc usage then went back to normal after the coc usage
First time COC was used
One of the most recent time COC was used
No it doesn't.
Look at the eyes before COC usage, during COC usage and after COC usage. They always change when COC is being used then revert back to normal afterwards.
Mihawks eyes stayed the same. Zoro's eyes when confronting Monet, then reverted back to normal after confronting Monet
Zoro has not shown what Cracker showed. His display followed the COC patter of eye changing during the usage then reverting to normal after the usage.
Both Mihawk and Cracker's eyes never changed. They stayed the same.
This is the big difference am trying to emphasis. The focus is on the changing eyes
Everyone is born with coa and coc, however, not everyone is born with coc.
I didn't start on a wrong premise that resulted in a false premise. I just read different translations I got and it is how I got there.
So of the 2 translation, COC and spirit are directly linked to each other. Zoro creates asura using spirit. Therefore asura is coc.
Is there someone with the viz translation of the panel above or does anyone have the raw so that @Den_Den_Mushi can translate it for us ?
@Bogard, @Rivaille if am not mistaken, you have access to viz translations?
The Rayleigh panel is from chapter 597 whilst the Kaku panel is from chapter 417
I didn't start on a wrong premise that resulted in a false premise. I just read different translations I got and it is how I got there.
- The first translation. Rayleigh says spirit is used to measure COC. In otherwords, those who have COC will all have spirit since spirit is what shows someone has COC.
- The second translation. Rayleigh says COC is the manifestation of the user's spirit. If you go by this translation, COC is spirit. Only COC users will be able to manifest their spirirts. Non COC users have spirit but can't manifest their spirirts
So of the 2 translation, COC and spirit are directly linked to each other. Zoro creates asura using spirit. Therefore asura is coc.
Is there someone with the viz translation of the panel above or does anyone have the raw so that @Den_Den_Mushi can translate it for us ?
@Bogard, @Rivaille if am not mistaken, you have access to viz translations?
The Rayleigh panel is from chapter 597 whilst the Kaku panel is from chapter 417
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