[FNZ] Salem of Lies Round 09: Throne of Lies

[Dark Admiral]

Because you voted for me immediately!! And maybe I’m a bother investigative Blue Dragon!

are you claiming or what..??

 

[Natalija]

are you claiming or what..??

I’m claiming you’re very dubious. As I know I am good, you must be shady.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

I really wished I didn't have to explain it to an experienced and a good player like you. Here is the story posted in earlier;

And here's what Drago said in the signups

Feel free to keep your votes on me though. But it will raise my suspicions on you.

this is correct
@Flower
conspiracy part of the right up seems to highlight the unseen.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

So far—It feels like Reborn is playing his usual meta. I don't understand Al Sama at all, so I guess he's doing his usual stuff too (based on limited exposure to him). Feels like Kiwi is taking a back seat so far, the fact she's Queen doesn't make her any less suspect. I also didn't see on the wiki how we get rid of a bad Queen, I assume that's through lynching though?

More players I'd like to hear from that usually have something to say when townie;

@Seraphoenix
@Cinera (I know he's busy, but if he has a moment to spare...)
@Queen
@LANJI CUCKSMOKE

How do you guys feel about the Reborn and Al Sama this game? They've been arguably the most vocal players, so it shouldn't be hard to get reads for them.


I've seen Neutralwatcher assume we have 2 Maf factions twice in the thread, so recent as page 7. So yeah, I think bringing up the basic rules and mechanics is a good move to circulate information. An ignorant town is a dead town.




I'm not sure I fully understand why you're lynching Dark Admiral here Flowa. I know it's probably more of a pressure vote but I feel like he's been pretty much barren by this point in the thread (when you vote him) and the above quote from the OP could be a reason why he believes the Unseen is the antagonists for the game.

But he even mentions the Cult King in the game, so it's not like he's solely focusing on the Unseen. Feels like he saw the OP and that's it, not that he made some slip up. What other reasons do you have for susing him?

What about Flowa's logic do you support? In regards to Dark Admiral? Because I don't think that's much of anything to go off of.

Why do you think they're scum buddying? I haven't seen anything in the thread that'd make that seem likely. Especially so early in the day phase. And the fact that we likely only start off with a small amount of scum (less than normal) kills that pretty evenly.

My first possibility is both of them could be scum.

You can see in page 3 that Flower asked Al: are you trying to buddy?
Al replied: yeah be my buddy

On page 4 Flower voted Dark Admiral and Al voted TAC

But since there are only 2 members for Cult/Unseen, pulling scum buddying at early game is risky and as experienced players I don't think they would do that so my second possibility is either of them is scum trying to take advantage of townie.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

irc before I go to bed

Vote lynch @krogothwolf

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

VOTE LYNCH KROG

forgot to bold

 

[Flower]

I really wished I didn't have to explain it to an experienced and a good player like you. Here is the story posted in earlier;

And here's what Drago said in the signups

Feel free to keep your votes on me though. But it will raise my suspicions on you.

Then what is this?

True to his subjects and loyal to gods of realms beyond this one. The King, as a Cultist, must shepherd his wayward flock into the loving embrace of Mithras and the temptation of power emanating from Corax. He is not evil nor malicious but disappointed in the path his children and court have taken. With The Sage's wisdom of his beloved Cult Leader subtly by his side, he sets about amending the ways of his skeptical subjects.

After all, a King must look out for his people - and the only fitting future for his kingdom is to join with Mithras, lest a fate far worse befalls them all. The disappointment the King endures does not mean that he is without mercy, however. His subjects are given every opportunity to join his righteous path. Only in their refusal is their life forfeit and, only then, would they serve as either blood or as a body.

Not Cult? See, this is what throws me off. You have Cult and Unseen mentioned in the WU. So there is nothing indicating there is no Cult and that we have the Unseen faction in the game. The only way you would assume that is if you are a member of the Unseen and know they are in the game.

 

[Finalbeta]

Top two lynch candidates?

My compass is on Reborn right now since he dodged my accusation with an outright: "I already answered this" which is not his usual reaction at all lol imo he felt in difficulty and so he tried to avoid a deeper conversation.

However I noticed this as well:

In the name of our Majesty the King, I've come here to serve as the shield the throne.
On the other news, since Unseen has been mentioned is it safe to assume we have no cult..?? Cause it's said there will be only one of them,

Basically someone wouldn't point blank assume the game features one or the other scum faction beforehand since unless you are part of it you have no clue about which one is present. So this could indeed be a TMI slip here. Also DA is not very experienced with this game from what I recall, so that raises the chance of such event. Unless he didn't read the game rules which I doubt.

 

[Flower]

Didn't find anything substantial in previous day Reborn - Al n Flower case.

Had Kiwi read Townie last night, bt Lanji pointing out her inconsistentency on Reborn being Townie picked my interest. Not much, bt something i think i should give a reread to, a king might be most imp player in this Game to us townies and so if we are to protect him, we need to be sure bout his alliegance.

Tac post was wild, bt also feel it was intentional, he just like messing up on 1st day.

Beta, Lanji feels Townie.

Natalija unusual gameplay for a noobie. Any other day, i would have sus her for this confidence and Game play as Mafia buddies coaching and helping her. Bt since Unseen/Cult only has 2 players at start i am expecting em to be experienced players.

No particular idea about Dark Gameplay, n Neutral is playing his usual game. Reborn also feels the same.
Al, these one liners is safe play, got something to hide @AL sama?

My major sus right nw is Flower. Timing of one of her posts gave me unusual feeling, so i am gonna give her posts a reread. This post here, it was mins after Reborn called her out on inactivity.

I was legit sleeping and just woke up back then.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Then what is this?



Not Cult? See, this is what throws me off. You have Cult and Unseen mentioned in the WU. So there is nothing indicating there is no Cult and that we have the Unseen faction in the game. The only way you would assume that is if you are a member of the Unseen and know they are in the game.

cult and unseen are both mentioned flower but why is unseen the only one highlighted in the conspiracy portion

 

[Flower]

cult and unseen are both mentioned flower but why is unseen the only one highlighted in the conspiracy portion

Because this is Lore story. Also, the WU wouldn't reveal what scum faction there is in the first place.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

I actually asked Dragomir in PM and he said not to pay attention to WU since It's just the lore from the wiki he copied.

I think WU has nothing to do with whether we have Unseen or Cult.

You all can ask Dragomir in PM to confirm this.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

I actually asked Dragomir in PM and he said not to pay attention to WU since It's just the lore from the wiki he copied.

I think WU has nothing to do with whether we have Unseen or Cult.

You all can ask Dragomir in PM to confirm this.

got ya
so flower was right
but I could see how dark might misconstrue that
his reason for voting on Natalija hasnt been clarified tho.

 

[Flower]

This is what Wiki says about this:

"In Throne of Lies, there are two distinct enemy factions: the Cult and the Unseen, but only one faction will appear in any game. Before members of the Blue Dragon can eliminate the opposition, they must determine which faction they are up against."

 

[NeutralWatcher]

got ya
so flower was right
but I could see how dark might misconstrue that
his reason for voting on Natalija hasnt been clarified tho.

I'm neutral toward Dark Admiral. I think he questioned the WU. I think if he is scum, he would vote other player who has been voted since Dark Admiral has 1 vote on him (by Flower) however I'm questioning why did he vote Natalija so I'm neutral toward him atm. I am sus of TAC right now. In the sign up Dragomir said both have the power to convert during the night instead of faction kills and Unseen/Cult gain killing power by converting specific Blue Dragon roles.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is Throne of Lies?

Factions: as you can see from the banner, it is a game of deception just like normal Mafia but again with different mechanics. The first thing you'll notice will be the factions. Town is called Blue Dragon. There are 2 scum teams. Cult and the Unseen. You can only have 1 of these teams in the game. Both have the power to convert during the night instead of a factional kill. They gain a killing power by converting specific Blue Dragon roles. Also, both cannot exist at the same time. The wincons are still the same. BD must kill Cult/Unseen(as well as harmful indies) and vice versa.

And TAC said if there is no killing, we are dealing with cult but if there is killing, we are dealing with Unseen which contradicts what is stated in the sign up.

So the way we see the difference between Cult and Unseen is going to be if anyone dies N1. Looking at both of these strategies, the biggest difference is the fact that Unseen can convert and kill the same night, but has less people in their ranks overall. Whereas the cult can only convert or kill at night. And they immediately want to convert, according to the wiki's optimal strategy guide. So, that means that if by tomorrow, we don't have anyone dead? We're dealing with the Cult.

Looking at the rest of Cult's loose abilities—keep in mind Drago mentioned that this wasn't a 1 | 1 with the wiki so I expect powers and rules to be loosely adjusted—tells us that the Cult will work through indirect measures. This could be post restrictions, role blocking, forcing a player to vote for another set player for a day phase. If we do have Cult, we all have an obligation to keep in mind their inherit trickery as we sus people. It seems like they are most comfortable with almost framing other players for their means.

Their Day kill ability, if it's in this round as well, is a little frightening. It means, above all else, we do not want to risk getting close to parity with them. Even a close lynch could be turned aside because of the Cult Leader's ability. Also, according to the wikia for Cult leader;


So this is an ever present sword of Damocles over our heads.

For the Unseen, I feel like it's similar but to a lesser extent;

Krogothwolf later pointed out that TAC was wrong that Unseen can convert and kill at night.

Not true.

Per game mechanics in signup thread



No where in the mechanics does it say that unseen can do what you suggest can do in drago's signup thread for the mechanics.

Why did you vote Krogothwolf?

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

I'm neutral toward Dark Admiral. I think he questioned the WU. I think if he is scum, he would vote other player who has been voted since Dark Admiral has 1 vote on him (by Flower) however I'm questioning why did he vote Natalija so I'm neutral toward him atm. I am sus of TAC right now. In the sign up Dragomir said both have the power to convert during the night instead of faction kills and Unseen/Cult gain killing power by converting specific Blue Dragon roles.



And TAC said if there is no killing, we are dealing with cult but if there is killing, we are dealing with Unseen which contradicts what is stated in the sign up.



Krogothwolf later pointed out that TAC was wrong that Unseen can convert and kill at night.



Why did you vote Krogothwolf?

based on low activity for now
his post have barely given any insight to the game but has spent more time talking about worst post of the day/best post of the day and game mechanics.
I want his reads but he doesnt seem active at the moment. certainly one vote isnt enough for his lynch here.


as for tac not sure where his source is on that
@TheAncientCenturion
care to explain?
lmao

 

[Dark Admiral]

Then what is this?



Not Cult? See, this is what throws me off. You have Cult and Unseen mentioned in the WU. So there is nothing indicating there is no Cult and that we have the Unseen faction in the game. The only way you would assume that is if you are a member of the Unseen and know they are in the game.

This is the possible character maps written before our story is told. You can see it’s later said on the below at the conspiracy part where our story takes place.

Basically someone wouldn't point blank assume the game features one or the other scum faction beforehand since unless you are part of it you have no clue about which one is present. So this could indeed be a TMI slip here. Also DA is not very experienced with this game from what I recall, so that raises the chance of such event. Unless he didn't read the game rules which I doubt.

I was just making assumptions based on the story given for us. It says only cult or unseen can be present at once and here is says on our story:

The corrupt King forges a meeting in the deepest reaches of the castle, calling upon his members of the Unseen.​

I may not be an experienced player but trying get ahead of the mafia by using the information given to us seemed like a good idea. It would just be dumb if we all spent the first day guessing on which faction is there while the answer was in front of us.

 

[Reborn]

I am not inclined to push Lynch on dark admiral or anyone on day one for two reasons

1) primary reason is this game Mechanic is new for most if not all and one or two mistakes can happen regarding mechanics in initial phase unless its not something big enough to ignore.

2) probability of mislynch is high on day one especially if we consider that in last few games we ended up doing so.



As far as Dark Admiral is concerned then I think it's case of misunderstanding the write up. He is mixing up lore with game mechanics.


Also, Pardon me for lack of inactivity and scum hunting on my part today. I am not feeling well and I am quite exhausted to dig more posts and ask questions and using phone is putting strain on my eyes. I would be offline because of med.

 

[Dark Admiral]

Yeah, I understood that, but in terms of how many good players vs how many mafia.

We need to know how many bastards to kill etc.

If we all remember this was a same newbie mistake that certain someone did in a past game and we know how it turned out. Majority of us were there

Yeah, then even investigation can be kinda pointless if anyone can turn...... :’)

Uh oh, I’ve had about 5 minutes time to get to know everyone on the forum, character judgement will be difficult

Don’t really get this point here but it looks like making a safe pass.

Hehehe see, the ladies are far too smart, that's exactly why I suspect you. I'm a rookie Blue Dragon. I wish I was a killer tbh

Nowhere in the post is mentioned either kill or killer.

Because you voted for me immediately!! And maybe I’m a bother investigative Blue Dragon!

This seems like an oddly satisfying answer coming from the new player.

I just wanted to see if someone comes out to defend him. But time is running out and no one’s pointed these out yet.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I'm thinking that Al might be fulfilling some requirement of his role. One of his posts was very peculiar.

Can you expand on this? Which post in particular was odd?

I can't reply to everyone and read everything because I just have no time today, but @TheAncientCenturion you're just asking questions as well, and you're on my list after the ladies. I have no idea what I am doing, hence the honesty. But I'm playing because Dragomir asked nicely ~

Asking questions is pretty much the best way to get information on people. Especially when a lot of the discussion doesn't seem to shed any light—for me—on anyone's particular allegiance. But if I can get people to talk more, especially those inactive? Better for me.

Because just as the post mentions the Unseen it also mentions the Cult. There is nothing indicating we have the Unseen in the game. The only way somebody would know that for sure was if they were in fact Unseen. This is why my vote stays on DA because to me that looks like a TMI slip.

Yeah, I haven't really seen anything in the first few pages that would come off as a slip though? There's no real smoking gun. If I missed anything, quote it so I can see it, but I have no reason to suspect Dark Admiral off of that.

I'm neutral toward Dark Admiral. I think he questioned the WU. I think if he is scum, he would vote other player who has been voted since Dark Admiral has 1 vote on him (by Flower) however I'm questioning why did he vote Natalija so I'm neutral toward him atm. I am sus of TAC right now. In the sign up Dragomir said both have the power to convert during the night instead of faction kills and Unseen/Cult gain killing power by converting specific Blue Dragon roles.



And TAC said if there is no killing, we are dealing with cult but if there is killing, we are dealing with Unseen which contradicts what is stated in the sign up.



Krogothwolf later pointed out that TAC was wrong that Unseen can convert and kill at night.



Why did you vote Krogothwolf?

How does that make me sus? I went to the wiki to get information and put out a strat. I thought would help us tell the difference between which enemy faction we have. Once Krog put out info contrary, I acknowledged it. I'm not sure how you get scum out of that Neutral.

based on low activity for now
his post have barely given any insight to the game but has spent more time talking about worst post of the day/best post of the day and game mechanics.
I want his reads but he doesnt seem active at the moment. certainly one vote isnt enough for his lynch here.


as for tac not sure where his source is on that
@TheAncientCenturion
care to explain?
lmao

My source on what, Lanji? The fact I said that Unseen can kill / convert each night versus the Cult's only conversion? The Wikipedia mechanics, which I outlined earlier. But that's not entirely accurate as Krog pointed out to me some pages ago. If you read my posts you'd know this.