Chapter Discussion Calm your tits. Luffys not talking about Kizaru.
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So…just the same old childish pretenses?
Whitebeard attacked Akainu from behind and still lost nearly half his head for it, and Akainu still nearly accomplished his goal of killing Luffy anyway. If that’s “demolished”, then Kid & Law demolished Big Mom even worse. We all know you’d never say such a thing though.
Kaido got stopped by Yamato.
So according to you, there aren’t true top elite of one piece universe.
Unless of course you are simply using double standards and giving the Yonko a pass…
Whitebeard attacked Akainu from behind and still lost nearly half his head for it, and Akainu still nearly accomplished his goal of killing Luffy anyway. If that’s “demolished”, then Kid & Law demolished Big Mom even worse. We all know you’d never say such a thing though.
Kaido got stopped by Yamato.
So according to you, there aren’t true top elite of one piece universe.
Unless of course you are simply using double standards and giving the Yonko a pass…
He got demolished quickly like it or not , yes Akainu landed attack on Whitebeard while it was directly stated during fight that he is not dodging attacks that he should be able to, but thats not point , point is that during Marineford Whitebeard was not even close to 50 % of his prime yet he was still able to quickly beat Akainu.
None of the admirals (Akainu , Kizaru Aokiji , Fujitora Aramaki ), have any feats of beating someone extremely strong or any portrayal that puts them on legendary status like Garp and Sengoku had .
None of the admirals (Akainu , Kizaru Aokiji , Fujitora Aramaki ), have any feats of beating someone extremely strong or any portrayal that puts them on legendary status like Garp and Sengoku had .
Luffy didnt sense saturne but the gorosei will eventualy make his presence know. The Title of warriors gods are no joke.. If you cant comprehend this then just google the list of warriors gods you gonna find thor, odin and many other who are peak power level wise. That is what the gorosei are in one piece for WG. Betting against them is a sur flat Ls.
Either you have your own definition of flying speed, or you don't understand what I'm talking about.
Flying speed is not about evasion or attack speed. It's about going from position x to position y. The most basic example is if you race Kaido & King from Onigashima to Wano, who will reach the destination first by flying.
My first comment is about this. An aerial battle where hypothetically, Kizaru is just midair spamming attacks.
Read my last sentence.
It doesn't matter if Kaido/BM can dodge Kizaru's attacks or not (which they eventually can't because Haki runs out sooner or later), they can't catch/hit Kizaru midair because their flying form are not speedy enough to do that.
Flying speed is not about evasion or attack speed. It's about going from position x to position y. The most basic example is if you race Kaido & King from Onigashima to Wano, who will reach the destination first by flying.
My first comment is about this. An aerial battle where hypothetically, Kizaru is just midair spamming attacks.
Read my last sentence.
It doesn't matter if Kaido/BM can dodge Kizaru's attacks or not (which they eventually can't because Haki runs out sooner or later), they can't catch/hit Kizaru midair because their flying form are not speedy enough to do that.
H
There is no difference of going from point A to point B or dodging. Of course you can say Kaido has more aceleration than speed that's how he can dodge and blitz people but... What would be your parameters to say Kaido is slow while flying?
Of course he is not as fast as Kizaru but he is nowhere slow.
Of course he is not as fast as Kizaru but he is nowhere slow.
I didn't say he's slow, just that he'll have a hard time catching him midair.
Well, we can see that for several reasons, like eastern dragon is never about speed, he doesn't have move speed feat in that form, his big body, his attacks in dragon form can be evaded, and the fact that the only way he can hit enemy using his... mouth 😂
These combinations aren't suited for fast paced aerial battle.
Well, we can see that for several reasons, like eastern dragon is never about speed, he doesn't have move speed feat in that form, his big body, his attacks in dragon form can be evaded, and the fact that the only way he can hit enemy using his... mouth 😂
These combinations aren't suited for fast paced aerial battle.
H
If Marco didn't had problem why Kaido would?
We are talking about a move speed feat in Dragon Form and you say he doesn't have a feat on this form??
What attack is Luffy evading in Kaido's dragon form? He pretty much got all boro breath head on. He couldn't dodge his drunk wind cuts or the later ones on G5. He got bite by him when in G4. Which attacks of Dragon Form is Luffy dodging?
You lack to show Kaido being a bad matchup for aerial battle. He and Luffy had that.
We are talking about a move speed feat in Dragon Form and you say he doesn't have a feat on this form??
What attack is Luffy evading in Kaido's dragon form? He pretty much got all boro breath head on. He couldn't dodge his drunk wind cuts or the later ones on G5. He got bite by him when in G4. Which attacks of Dragon Form is Luffy dodging?
You lack to show Kaido being a bad matchup for aerial battle. He and Luffy had that.
Like I already said, by that hypocritical reasoning, Big Mom got demolished even worse.
It was said that he would be able to react to an ally like Squardo turning on him, so that’s not relevant to people he considers enemies and wouldn’t let get that close in the first place.
Throwing around arbitrary numbers won’t help you. Claiming 50% only makes the rest look worse since everybody still placed WB over them, even the manga itself. You’re basically claiming that WB was twice as strong as the other Yonko in his prime which is just silly.
And as already mentioned, he attacked Akainu from behind. When he faced him head on he couldn’t damage him and it was just a stalemate until Akainu got the upper hand when he got a heart attack. Akainu could have even killed him there if he went for the head, but he hit his torso instead.
Your attempt to downplay is doubly useless as well since if it were Akainu hitting WB from behind with a direct hit to the head, he wouldn’t need a 2nd hit.
By your own reasoning, Akainu demolishes WB even quicker given the same position. Neither would WB even be able to return to still nearly succeed in getting Luffy anyway.
It’s kinda sad that you don’t even see how your own double standards bite you in the ass. Who has Big Mom defeated that is extremely strong? What about Sengoku?
Unfortunately for you, it was stated that the Navy is stronger now than ever before under Sakazuki, and that includes Sengoku & Garp’s era. Trying to separate them from the rest of the Admirals that they trained doesn’t work.
It was said that he would be able to react to an ally like Squardo turning on him, so that’s not relevant to people he considers enemies and wouldn’t let get that close in the first place.
Throwing around arbitrary numbers won’t help you. Claiming 50% only makes the rest look worse since everybody still placed WB over them, even the manga itself. You’re basically claiming that WB was twice as strong as the other Yonko in his prime which is just silly.
And as already mentioned, he attacked Akainu from behind. When he faced him head on he couldn’t damage him and it was just a stalemate until Akainu got the upper hand when he got a heart attack. Akainu could have even killed him there if he went for the head, but he hit his torso instead.
Your attempt to downplay is doubly useless as well since if it were Akainu hitting WB from behind with a direct hit to the head, he wouldn’t need a 2nd hit.
By your own reasoning, Akainu demolishes WB even quicker given the same position. Neither would WB even be able to return to still nearly succeed in getting Luffy anyway.
It’s kinda sad that you don’t even see how your own double standards bite you in the ass. Who has Big Mom defeated that is extremely strong? What about Sengoku?
Unfortunately for you, it was stated that the Navy is stronger now than ever before under Sakazuki, and that includes Sengoku & Garp’s era. Trying to separate them from the rest of the Admirals that they trained doesn’t work.
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Oh, this is shounen action manga alright, I know & understand that. X hitting Y will always happen for various reasons such as tension & plot. Your examples are showcase for this. Marco showcasing his strength to establish his character. Luffy got attacked for battle tension.
My first reply is commenting about Kizaru handling both Kaido & BM. Both will be able to hit him alright, there will always be a way for that.
But if we're not bound by manga rules (this is why I said "technically" earlier) : Kizaru can just stay flyjng at range & spam attack. Before both coming at him & be near him, he can just move and spam attacks again. It's the same with Enel's versus scenario, he will almost always lose, but technically he can just do the things above and wins, for example, Big Mom.
So, Kizaru looks okay talking with Akainu about handling Kaido & BM is at least because of that. Unlike Aramaki & Fuji who needs to be in melee range & don't have speed advantage.
My first reply is commenting about Kizaru handling both Kaido & BM. Both will be able to hit him alright, there will always be a way for that.
But if we're not bound by manga rules (this is why I said "technically" earlier) : Kizaru can just stay flyjng at range & spam attack. Before both coming at him & be near him, he can just move and spam attacks again. It's the same with Enel's versus scenario, he will almost always lose, but technically he can just do the things above and wins, for example, Big Mom.
So, Kizaru looks okay talking with Akainu about handling Kaido & BM is at least because of that. Unlike Aramaki & Fuji who needs to be in melee range & don't have speed advantage.
H
But this way you are denying manga feats and traits.
Kizaru was never the type of fighting like that. He can attack from mid/long range but he is constantly going to close range and having his kicks or sometimes even his light sword.
And like I said Kaido showed good flight speed too. Not that he is suppose to keep up with Kizaru but there is a huge gap between what him and Big Mom showed.
And about Greenbull and Fujitora they can attack from distance. Greenbull roots may not go long distance as Kizaru's beams but at least mid range he can play with. And Fujitora... Please the guy invokes meteors from ridiculous distances. And he controls gravity he can slow down or speed up others with that.
Kizaru was never the type of fighting like that. He can attack from mid/long range but he is constantly going to close range and having his kicks or sometimes even his light sword.
And like I said Kaido showed good flight speed too. Not that he is suppose to keep up with Kizaru but there is a huge gap between what him and Big Mom showed.
And about Greenbull and Fujitora they can attack from distance. Greenbull roots may not go long distance as Kizaru's beams but at least mid range he can play with. And Fujitora... Please the guy invokes meteors from ridiculous distances. And he controls gravity he can slow down or speed up others with that.
Whitebeard that fought at marineford was not just restricted by age but also his health condition which was terrible . 50 % was not arbitrary number because old Garp said that his thrown cannons barely travel half the speed thats how much his strength declined just from old age. Whitebeard fighting not just old age but health problems too make it easy to understand why he was not even 50 % of his prime.
I never said prime Whitebeard is 2 times stronger than yonko because I dont consider sick Whitebeard stronger than any yonko.
Really dont care what nonsense you are talking about ( probably some anime filler addition to fight ) but in manga Akainu got 2 shotted. In manga he did fully stand on his feet after first attack so your excuse about attack from behind is pointless. He got up, did damage and still got demolished by second attack which put him out of fight for some time , when he got back Whitebeard already died. And no given same position Akainu would not demolish prime whitebeard because his obervation Haki would sense it .
Details of fight are meaningless after all , what matters is their portrayal where sick , wounded Whitebeard make quick work of Akainu which clearly shows that Akainu is entire level below someone like Prime Whitebeard or Roger.
Navy being stronger refers to entire organization as whole not Akainus own might.
It doesnt matter how hard you try kid , but those admirals dont have any actual feat , or some sort of hype / statement / portrayal that puts them on same level as legendary figures of one piece universe.
Its actually quite the opposite Akainu losing to that sick Whitebeard is just embarrassment to someone when talking about elite level, same with Aokiji who lost to the same guy and Kizaru is not much better given that his best feat is fighting equally to old Rayleigh.
I never said prime Whitebeard is 2 times stronger than yonko because I dont consider sick Whitebeard stronger than any yonko.
Really dont care what nonsense you are talking about ( probably some anime filler addition to fight ) but in manga Akainu got 2 shotted. In manga he did fully stand on his feet after first attack so your excuse about attack from behind is pointless. He got up, did damage and still got demolished by second attack which put him out of fight for some time , when he got back Whitebeard already died. And no given same position Akainu would not demolish prime whitebeard because his obervation Haki would sense it .
Details of fight are meaningless after all , what matters is their portrayal where sick , wounded Whitebeard make quick work of Akainu which clearly shows that Akainu is entire level below someone like Prime Whitebeard or Roger.
Navy being stronger refers to entire organization as whole not Akainus own might.
It doesnt matter how hard you try kid , but those admirals dont have any actual feat , or some sort of hype / statement / portrayal that puts them on same level as legendary figures of one piece universe.
Its actually quite the opposite Akainu losing to that sick Whitebeard is just embarrassment to someone when talking about elite level, same with Aokiji who lost to the same guy and Kizaru is not much better given that his best feat is fighting equally to old Rayleigh.
WB is not Garp, and neither is a particular translation of Garp’s statement supposed to be a precise measure of his power. The Gura fruit also has no such limitation with age.
And no, what you consider is irrelevant when the manga itself and the characters have WB above every other Yonko, even after he died. You’d have to provide what made the likes of Bog Mom stronger than WB in the first place.
It’s likely going to be the same old pretense that strength is dependent on only 1 stat or ignoring the context of disparate situations to pretend they are the same. I’m open to you surprising me, but these tired old arguments almost always end up being that predictable.
You are the one thinking about anime filler. Unsurprisingly, that is the go-to resort of everyone trying to downplay the situation. It’s literally like clockwork:
1. You ignore the 1st fight completely because you don’t like the implications.
2. You ignore the context of the 2nd fight because it’s inconvenient for you that it begins with an attack from behind.
Like I said, predictable.
Next you are now pretending like a free shot to the back of the head doesn’t matter. Yet if it were Akainu that were hitting the back of WB’s head and melted it, you’d be the first to cry bloody murder about how it’s so unfair. Disgusting.
You simply can’t ignore it because a 2nd hit wouldn’t even be needed if the positions were reversed, so there’s no sweeping it under the rug.
The fact that Akainu could endure the first hit to retaliate only works in his favour. Poor Oden couldn’t do the same after Kaido clubbed him from behind with a weaker attack.
Big Mom sacrificed a year of her life after 2 injured Supernova did the same to her.
Your disingenuousness is just painfully transparent. If Akainu didn’t get up from the first hit then it’s a bad thing and he’s weak….but Akainu getting up from it doesn’t matter, so it’s still bad for him. Get real.
Trying to downplay his retaliation doesn’t work either: he didn’t just do damage, he did fatal damage. He made it so that it was guaranteed to kill WB regardless of whatever happened afterwards.
He fell into the chasm that opened up but stopped himself from falling into the sea, then burrowed his way underground to catch up to Jimbe who had been running away with Luffy and even managed to cut them off anyway.
That is not a two shot any more than Robin rolling Big Mom off of Onigashima is a one shot. Or the Supernova combo to knock her off the rooftop was a two shot.
Ah…and there’s the predictable dishonest excuse: WB would dodge it. Nice try. We all know why you’re avoiding it because you know precisely what would happen if Akainu were the one hitting him.
Who said anything about “prime” either? Old WB was still a Yonko…so unless you are going to try and ignore that too, there’s no escape for you there.
Ah…details of the fight are now meaningless too when they disprove your silly claims. So predictable.
There’s also the pretense that anyone else in Akainu’s position would do much better. Did you think that Oda was going to have Akainu kill Ace and then WB afterwards so he’d be free to kill Luffy and One Piece ends? Nice try.
All that shows is that Akainu is a caliber of opponent that can get blindsided by the top pirate and still nearly accomplish his goal anyway of killing his target. Even needing to be blindsided to be taken out temporarily because the author couldn’t do it in a direct way says it all.
By your reasoning, Kaido & Big Mom losing to rookies is far worse portrayal since “details of the fight are meaningless.”
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Lmao at you trying to use “kid” unironically when your arguments are so childish, even 12 year olds would be appalled.
“The details don’t matter”…you want people to believe that an adult tried an excuse that transparent?
You also show an accompanying puerile comprehension. No one said that the Navy being stronger is due to only Akainu’s strength, that’s silly. It just exposes the claim that the current Admirals are much weaker than the past ones like Sengoku is baseless.
Why would the Navy randomly drop their standards in the first place? What sort of sense did that make to you?
We even have one of the recent Admirals (now former Admiral) shown to match the physical strength of one of those legendary figures, Garp. I’ll pre-empt the predictable attempt to whine that “are you saying he’s exactly as powerful as Garp” with the point that they are simply at comparative levels, regardless of how much that galls you.
Trying to pretend that anyone getting hit directly in the head with a Gura quake from an enraged WB wouldn’t be staggered….or that getting hit by an island-splitting quake wouldn’t fall into a chasm that opens up doesn’t fool anyone with the ability to reason their way out of a paper bag.
Grow up, it’s 2023.
And no, what you consider is irrelevant when the manga itself and the characters have WB above every other Yonko, even after he died. You’d have to provide what made the likes of Bog Mom stronger than WB in the first place.
It’s likely going to be the same old pretense that strength is dependent on only 1 stat or ignoring the context of disparate situations to pretend they are the same. I’m open to you surprising me, but these tired old arguments almost always end up being that predictable.
You are the one thinking about anime filler. Unsurprisingly, that is the go-to resort of everyone trying to downplay the situation. It’s literally like clockwork:
1. You ignore the 1st fight completely because you don’t like the implications.
2. You ignore the context of the 2nd fight because it’s inconvenient for you that it begins with an attack from behind.
Like I said, predictable.
Next you are now pretending like a free shot to the back of the head doesn’t matter. Yet if it were Akainu that were hitting the back of WB’s head and melted it, you’d be the first to cry bloody murder about how it’s so unfair. Disgusting.
You simply can’t ignore it because a 2nd hit wouldn’t even be needed if the positions were reversed, so there’s no sweeping it under the rug.
The fact that Akainu could endure the first hit to retaliate only works in his favour. Poor Oden couldn’t do the same after Kaido clubbed him from behind with a weaker attack.
Big Mom sacrificed a year of her life after 2 injured Supernova did the same to her.
Your disingenuousness is just painfully transparent. If Akainu didn’t get up from the first hit then it’s a bad thing and he’s weak….but Akainu getting up from it doesn’t matter, so it’s still bad for him. Get real.
Trying to downplay his retaliation doesn’t work either: he didn’t just do damage, he did fatal damage. He made it so that it was guaranteed to kill WB regardless of whatever happened afterwards.
He fell into the chasm that opened up but stopped himself from falling into the sea, then burrowed his way underground to catch up to Jimbe who had been running away with Luffy and even managed to cut them off anyway.
That is not a two shot any more than Robin rolling Big Mom off of Onigashima is a one shot. Or the Supernova combo to knock her off the rooftop was a two shot.
Ah…and there’s the predictable dishonest excuse: WB would dodge it. Nice try. We all know why you’re avoiding it because you know precisely what would happen if Akainu were the one hitting him.
Who said anything about “prime” either? Old WB was still a Yonko…so unless you are going to try and ignore that too, there’s no escape for you there.
Ah…details of the fight are now meaningless too when they disprove your silly claims. So predictable.
There’s also the pretense that anyone else in Akainu’s position would do much better. Did you think that Oda was going to have Akainu kill Ace and then WB afterwards so he’d be free to kill Luffy and One Piece ends? Nice try.
All that shows is that Akainu is a caliber of opponent that can get blindsided by the top pirate and still nearly accomplish his goal anyway of killing his target. Even needing to be blindsided to be taken out temporarily because the author couldn’t do it in a direct way says it all.
By your reasoning, Kaido & Big Mom losing to rookies is far worse portrayal since “details of the fight are meaningless.”
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Lmao at you trying to use “kid” unironically when your arguments are so childish, even 12 year olds would be appalled.
“The details don’t matter”…you want people to believe that an adult tried an excuse that transparent?
You also show an accompanying puerile comprehension. No one said that the Navy being stronger is due to only Akainu’s strength, that’s silly. It just exposes the claim that the current Admirals are much weaker than the past ones like Sengoku is baseless.
Why would the Navy randomly drop their standards in the first place? What sort of sense did that make to you?
We even have one of the recent Admirals (now former Admiral) shown to match the physical strength of one of those legendary figures, Garp. I’ll pre-empt the predictable attempt to whine that “are you saying he’s exactly as powerful as Garp” with the point that they are simply at comparative levels, regardless of how much that galls you.
Trying to pretend that anyone getting hit directly in the head with a Gura quake from an enraged WB wouldn’t be staggered….or that getting hit by an island-splitting quake wouldn’t fall into a chasm that opens up doesn’t fool anyone with the ability to reason their way out of a paper bag.
Grow up, it’s 2023.
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