Current Events How do you view Luffy vs Kizaru as a fight?

[HurricaneBilly]

Tbh having a goofy Yonko going at it with the character with the most trollish personality had the potential to make for a fun and unique fight. Kizaru's reaction to getting thrown into the sea got a chuckle out of me so that's something at least...

Overall though yeah this wasn't the long awaited Yonko vs Admiral 1v1 showdown that people were expecting. Never had the vibe of a main confrontation with how much of it was off panel or ugly generic clashing (like what is even going on here). With Saturn in the spotlight and how much this flashback is building up Luffy stepping in to confront him as Nika, I doubt this fight will even continue. We will see tho...

Yeah, conceptually speaking, there was plenty of potential here for a memorable and exciting fight between an old fashioned Looney Tunes-esque Yonko versus a troll-inclined Admiral.

However it seems to me like Oda deliberately opted to have them primarily play a game of cat and mouse because one side was seemingly more immediately powerful than the other and had to hold off on a proper fight for plot reasons. And like you said, the flashback content building up the importance of Nika/Luffy in relation to Bonney and Kuma certainly suggests that Luffy will be switching focus over to fighting Saturn once the flashbacks are over and he's back on his feet again.

 

[LemonadeCandy]

Oh yeah cloning move was cool

 

[nik87]

Luffy's fights became something else... I would prefer not to rate them.

 

[LemonadeCandy]

one side was seemingly more immediately powerful than the other and had to hold off on a proper fight for plot reasons.

Still on the fence regarding this. To me it all depends on if Luffy was genuinely holding back CoC during all of these clashes or if that was just Oda being lazy and inconsistent with visual cues. If we happen to have him fighting later in the arc with clear and constant visual indications of CoC then yeah I would definitely agree with your take here.

 

[Thabeast]

trash... oda is too lazy at drawing fights

 

[HurricaneBilly]

Still on the fence regarding this. To me it all depends on if Luffy was genuinely holding back CoC during all of these clashes or if that was just Oda being lazy and inconsistent with visual cues. If we happen to have him fighting later in the arc with clear and constant visual indications of CoC then yeah I would definitely agree with your take here.

Right, there's no way to be entirely certain right now. And for that matter, it is still technically possible that Kizaru was holding back for whatever reason too. However, even if Kizaru can dish out a similar level of raw power and damage as Luffy, it certainly seems like his defense isn't as strong as he'd previously boasted.

 

[ConquistadoR]

Tbh having a goofy Yonko going at it with the character with the most trollish personality had the potential to make for a fun and unique fight. Kizaru's reaction to getting thrown into the sea got a chuckle out of me so that's something at least...

Overall though yeah this wasn't the long awaited Yonko vs Admiral 1v1 showdown that people were expecting. Never had the vibe of a main confrontation with how much of it was off panel or ugly generic clashing (like what is even going on here). With Saturn in the spotlight and how much this flashback is building up Luffy stepping in to confront him as Nika, I doubt this fight will even continue. We will see tho...

Yep. His nonchalant attitude at almost falling into the sea followed by that clone technique was a nice moment.

The main gripe for me is how this fight just seems like a job half done... no stakes were brought up, no great moments for people to remember & such an abrupt "end" (if this is supposed to be it). Major Luffy arc opponents get so much respect from Oda with how he draws the fight & makes it flow. Especially when it really gets going. Think of Snakeman v. Katakuri or Drunken Bagua Kaidou v. G2/3/4 Luffy. He essentially used these fights to tell their stories. Doffy was the sole exception in this pattern since he got it with Law.

We get nothing here, apart from some trolling. And Saturn just seems fated to fight Nika next, his first words on the Island were "Nika!" & he tried to kill him this chapter when he was defenseless.

Ultimately Kizaru will be the loser if he's sidelined like Lucci - a temporary fight & Luffy moves on to Saturn next. It's fine as a writing decision, maybe Oda only wanted to prove Luffy > Kizaru too but Kizaru loses the gravitas & hype if he gets sacrificed.

The major question is will Oda sacrifice Kizaru or not? If he doesnt sideline Kizaru... why did he even hype Saturn like that? Is someone else coming to the Island, like Dragon?

 

[Herrera95]

Dogshit is Luffy vs Kaido. Luffy vs Kizaru is just underwhelming

Post automatically merged: Oct 11, 2023

Right, there's no way to be entirely certain right now. And for that matter, it is still technically possible that Kizaru was holding back for whatever reason too. However, even if Kizaru can dish out a similar level of raw power and damage as Luffy, it certainly seems like his defense isn't as strong as he'd previously boasted.

Defense is not durability. Maybe he could have blocked.

 

[Ven437]

Powerscaling aside. This fight has been off-screened so much to the point where we skipped straight to G4 Snakeman vs Kizaru, the fight barely takes 1/3 of the whole chapter, and the art is so horrible you wonder whether Kizaru turned into a toon before Luffy even hit him with Toon Force.

Most dogshit Top Tier fight ever. Add to the fact we know Luffy has been sandbagging this whole time cuz no ACoC, and Kizaru is just playing mouse and cat using Vegapunk as an excuse to run away, makes this very very low-stakes and repulsive.

It could’ve been easier to just skip to current outcome of both knocked out so we didn’t have to suffer through terrible amounts of empty soulless hype.

 

[LemonadeCandy]

Right, there's no way to be entirely certain right now. And for that matter, it is still technically possible that Kizaru was holding back for whatever reason too. However, even if Kizaru can dish out a similar level of raw power and damage as Luffy, it certainly seems like his defense isn't as strong as he'd previously boasted.

Yeah I believe it was pointed out that Kizaru had to avoid using his most large scale moves here since York, the Mother Flame facility and Punk Records can't be lost for their mission to be successful. Stuff like the attack he used to destroy the mangrove tree back at Sabaody are thus out of the equation.

As you said, his defense definitely isn't up there though that's for sure.

 

[HurricaneBilly]

Yeah I believe it was pointed out that Kizaru had to avoid using his most large scale moves here since York, the Mother Flame facility and Punk Records can't be lost for their mission to be successful. Stuff like the attack he used to destroy the mangrove tree back at Sabaody are thus out of the equation.

As you said, his defense definitely isn't up there though that's for sure.

Ooh, that's a very good point!

Defense is not durability. Maybe he could have blocked.

That's a fair point! Defense isn't just about durability; obviously it goes without saying that Kizaru's speed is a key element to his defense, for example.

Although I would argue it's a central element of defense when it comes to this matchup, given the sort of power that Luffy and Kizaru can respectively dish out. So the fact that Kizaru appears to be unable to hold out and endure too many of Luffy's stronger/strongest attacks still suggests that Kizaru would have a harder time pulling out a win here.

 

[zzShinichi]

It's hard to enjoy a fight where both sides just want to get away from êachother

 

[Yomi]

Kizaru's attack power should easily match or surpass the laser barrier.
Luffy should have been using acoc. This fight could have been tough, high stakes, and respectful to both characters.

This, along with WiFi haki on Greenbull proves that Oda just wants to move on to the celestial dragons as enemies.

 

[zerofifth]

Kind of disappointing that we got two admirals fight in this arc and it was more about exchanges than an actual fight. Didn't need to be 5 chapters long but feels like it should at least be a full chapter without cutaways

 

[MonsterKaido]

It was barely a fight and more running around.

 

[HellBlazer04]

Kuma will be there to stall for time, nothing more and add an extra moment of dramatic effect as he gets eliminated.

Maybe that random theory of Franky getting the fruit is true after all? Someone please bring counter arguments to that theory, I know it's headcannon but things are headed there.

I agree for some part. If Kuma appears, all he will do is push Bonney out of Saturn's hand and sacrificing himself to save her.

"Insane amounts of copium" yet you cant tell me who is stopping Kizaru lol.

Actually, you say its Luffy, but you make it seem like VP isnt going to escape from Saturn due to some other factor.

If the Robot stops Saturn, then Kizaru will continue to go after Vegapunk.

That's the point, no one is stopping Kizaru. The WG is going to come out of this incident with atleast 1 W. And it will be Kizaru securing Mother Flame and York (both part of his initial mission)
Kizaru who has been hesitating this whole time to not kill his friends has just been relieved from killing VP. Securing Mother flame and York is a straight forward job where he doesn't have do anything drastic.

Spoiler

Bonney is equivalent of Rebecca in this arc. Tell me, how do you read this and still don't think luffy won't fight saturn?

Im sure the Robot will come in play, but he ain't gonna fight Saturn. That robot will be SHs ticket out of egghead.

Dealing with the ancient robot that attacked Mariejoa 200 years ago

You're saying that, Saturn's big moment as the main villian of this arc will be against a fucking fodder Robot?
Smh you guys need to get with the program, Luffy is the one who always faces against the main antag.

 

[Hako Sama]

fodder Robot?

No way that thing is fodder

The robot climbed the whole Red Line and attacked Mary Geoise all alone.

It's an ancient technology, It's massive, It has some sort of connection with Nika, like... No way It's fodder.

 

[HellBlazer04]

No way that thing is fodder

The robot climbed the whole Red Line and attacked Mary Geoise all alone.

It's an ancient technology, It's massive, It has some sort of connection with Nika, like... No way It's fodder.

Fodder in the sense that, the robot is just sitting there collecting rust and looks already damaged.
My point is that Saturn isn't getting stalled by a machine. At best the robot may land 1-2 hits after that it either gets destroyed or its used as SH's escape ticket

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Pretty fun up until the last chapter. Hopefully it gets a round 2 where they're using their powers more conventionally.

 

[Oliver]

Blueno vibes, Kizaru spent all his time running away from Luffy and waiting for his yonko form gear 5 to run out then he gets blasted and overshadowed by Saturn.

I personally think it should have lasted longer though, Oda is disrespecting the admirals too much even for me. They should have been a little more menacing.