Controversial General Political Discussion

[Okamakama]

I'm not gonna call you wtf??

Post automatically merged: Oct 19, 2023

How can you compare 70 years of contemporary history to some shit that happened more than a thousand years ago. Askhenazi Jews are mostly of European ancestry, there's a reason as to why the Palestinians are considered indigenous to the region. You clearly lack basic knowledge on the matter, and you're more than willing to draw false equivalences just for the sake of winning the argument.

Well, I tried. It's called civil discussion and actual dialogue rather than arguing over text.

I'm done. You speak of false equivalences, but you're cherry picking what is indiginous and what is not. You are taking the argumentations of the alleged oppressed as truth and running with it. The people in Palestine are not being accepted as refugees in other countries for a reason. If given impunity, I sincerely doubt they would coexist with the Jews.

Unfortunately, you're seeing the world as you want it to be, not what it is. People of vast cultural differences do not melt together, they tend to grind against each other. Do I condone Israel's actions? Not particularly. Do I believe that the Palestinians are poor victims who would live peacefully with the Jews without expecting them to change? Fuck no. There is propaganda on Palestinian Television about killing Jews -- but let's pretend like Israel is not at threat and they're just terrorists.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Well, I tried. It's called civil discussion and actual dialogue rather than arguing over text.

I'm done. You speak of false equivalences, but you're cherry picking what is indiginous and what is not. You are taking the argumentations of the alleged oppressed as truth and running with it. The people in Palestine are not being accepted as refugees in other countries for a reason. If given impunity, I sincerely doubt they would coexist with the Jews.

Unfortunately, you're seeing the world as you want it to be, not what it is. People of vast cultural differences do not melt together, they tend to grind against each other. Do I condone Israel's actions? Not particularly. Do I believe that the Palestinians are poor victims who would live peacefully with the Jews without expecting them to change? Fuck no. There is propaganda on Palestinian Television about killing Jews -- but let's pretend like Israel is not at threat and they're just terrorists.

I'll say this to you in a civil way just so we're clear. I have absolutely no interest in calling you or showing my face to you, and you shouldn't care that much in the first place. Do I find your views repugnant? Yes, but that doesn't mean I care enough about what you think to literally hop in on a call with a complete stranger just for the sake of squashing some irrelevant forum drama. You and I are neither friends nor enemies. I don't know you so it's hard for me to actually genuinely hate you or any other person in this forum. I can find the things you say disgusting and dislike the way you present yourself, but that doesn't mean I care enough about you or what you think to go out of my way to talk to you in any other way. If you want to ft do it with your friends or your family.

 

[Okamakama]

I'll say this to you in a civil way just so we're clear. I have absolutely no interest in calling you or showing my face to you, and you shouldn't care that much in the first place. Do I find your views repugnant? Yes, but that doesn't mean I care enough about what you think to literally hop in on a call with a complete stranger just for the sake of squashing some irrelevant forum drama. You and I are neither friends nor enemies. I don't know you so it's hard for me to actually genuinely hate you or any other person in this forum. I can find the things you say disgusting and dislike the way you present yourself, but that doesn't mean I care enough about you or what you think to go out of my way to talk to you in any other way. If you want to ft do it with your friends or your family.

You know, this is a fair and measured response. I accept that. I was under an impression that, no matter what we said, we'd just end up arguing. I'm kind of sick of it -- especially of mischaracterizations. You read some of what I say, but ignore the other parts. I am not gung-ho excited about death, destruction, misery and oppression. But I don't want to oversimplify these topics with: "X good and Y bad." Still, I guess this is the politics thread, so idfk man.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1714706863349027317

Post automatically merged: Oct 18, 2023

I agree here. We should just sanction the shit out of Israel and economically force them to stop this genocide.

This is where the bias shows. When Putin attacked Ukraine our politicians went on tangents about why each and every connection to Russia must be destroyed, be it economically or culturally by firing Russian museum directors etc.
And when Israel commits acts of genocide against little kids we StaNd aGAinSt AntiSemiTiSM

 

[Phoenix D. King]

This is where the bias shows. When Putin attacked Ukraine our politicians went on tangents about why each and every connection to Russia must be destroyed, be it economically or culturally by firing Russian museum directors etc.
And when Israel commits acts of genocide against little kids we StaNd aGAinSt AntiSemiTiSM

unfortunately, as long as its only small non-players like Spain, Israel wont be shaken


until the United States does something, dont expect anything

 

[Roo]

The Palestinians are in fact indigenous to what you now call Israel, genetic studies deem it so.

what study?

A study found that the Palestinians, like Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis and Kurds have what appears to be Female-Mediated gene flow in the form of Maternal DNA Haplogroups from Sub-Saharan Africa. 15% of the 117 Palestinian individuals tested carried maternal haplogroups that originated in Sub-Saharan Africa. These results are consistent with female migration from eastern Africa into Near Eastern communities within the last few thousand years. There have been many opportunities for such migrations during this period. However, the most likely explanation for the presence of predominantly female lineages of African origin in these areas is that they may trace back to women brought from Africa as part of the Arab slave trade, assimilated into the areas under Arab rule.

A 2013 study by Haber et al. found that "The predominantly Muslim populations of Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians cluster on branches with other Muslim populations as distant as Morocco and Yemen." The authors explained that "religious affiliation had a strong impact on the genomes of the Levantines. In particular, conversion of the region's populations to Islam appears to have introduced major rearrangements in populations' relations through admixture with culturally similar but geographically remote populations leading to genetic similarities between remarkably distant populations."

The levant has gone through periods of mass immigration + emigration. You'd be twisting your head around trying to figure out who's really "indigenous" to the area.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

what study?




The levant has gone through periods of mass immigration + emigration. You'd be twisting your head around trying to figure out who's really "indigenous" to the area.

Relatively. At the very least we know that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to central and eastern Europeans than they are to the Jews that spoke Aramaic 2000 years ago. Palestinians are unquestionably more tied to the region.

 

[Roo]

Relatively. At the very least we know that spehardic jews and Ashkenazi jews are more closley related to central and eastern europeans than they are to the Jews that spoke Aramaic 2000 years ago. Palestinians are unquestionably more tied to the region.

Not really

In recent years, genetic studies have demonstrated that, at least paternally, Jewish ethnic divisions and the Palestinians are related to each other.[97] Genetic studies on Jews have shown that Jews and Palestinians are closer to each other than the Jews are to their host countries.[98][99] At the haplogroup level, defined by the binary polymorphisms only, the Y chromosome distribution in Arabs and Jews was similar but not identical

According to a 2010 study by Behar et al. titled "The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people", Palestinians tested clustered genetically close to Bedouins, Jordanians and Saudi Arabians which was described as "consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula".[101] In the same year a study by Atzmon and Harry Ostrer concluded that the Palestinians were, together with Bedouins, Druze and southern European groups, the closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish populations

several studies have shown even the whitest jewish people share a lot of genetic similarity to the people in the arab peninsula, meaning they are genetic neighbors

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Not really





several studies have shown even the whitest jewish people share a lot of genetic similarity to the people in the arab peninsula, meaning they are genetic neighbors

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

 

[Roo]

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

You’re using 1 article written in 2013, while I’m using Wikipedia which has an aggregate of studies as late as 2021.

You should keep reading about this instead of relying on 1 article that seems to have very little validity amongst geneticist

 

[NikaInParis]

A June 2023 poll conducted by Khalil Shikaki, professor of political science and director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, indicated that 79% of Gazans supported armed opposition to Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory. A Washington Institute poll from July 2023 found that only 57% of Gazans held a “somewhat positive” opinion of Hamas.


https://theconversation.com/hamas-was-unpopular-in-gaza-before-it-attacked-israel-surveys-showed-gazans-cared-more-about-fighting-poverty-than-armed-resistance-215640#:~:text=Gazans hold mixed views of Hamas&text=A Washington Institute poll from,somewhat positive” opinion of Hamas.

Armed opposition to Israeli occupation is a right given to Palestinians by the UN itself. That does no equate to support for Hamas.

And, more importantly, the majority of Gazans are underage, as I have already stated. Any poll that includes a statistic above 50% either willfully includes opinions of children willfully ignores the demographics of Gaza.


Of course, children were the majority before these recent IDF bombings. The IDF and Israel's political leaderships are working hard to rectify these statistics

 

[NAMELESS]

Armed opposition to Israeli occupation is a right given to Palestinians by the UN itself. That does no equate to support for Hamas.

And, more importantly, the majority of Gazans are underage, as I have already stated. Any poll that includes a statistic above 50% either willfully includes opinions of children willfully ignores the demographics of Gaza.


Of course, children were the majority before these recent IDF bombings. The IDF and Israel's political leaderships are working hard to rectify these statistics

That some sad stuff to hear,man.I suppose most orphans will end up as Hamas fighters since they will hold the strongest grudge.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

That some sad stuff to hear,man.I suppose most orphans will end up as Hamas fighters since they will hold the strongest grudge.

Peace is the only way for this shit to stop.

 

[NikaInParis]

That some sad stuff to hear,man.I suppose most orphans will end up as Hamas fighters since they will hold the strongest grudge.

And who can blame them? Decades of opression and apartheid have ensured a constant stream of combatants for any militia in the region.
All by design so that there's always an enemy to fight against and teritorry to take away.

 

[Roo]

I think it’s pretty safe to assume the people in Gaza are likely radicalized against Israel. But if they’re mostly children they can be as easily de radicalized.

 

[NikaInParis]

That rethoric goes both ways: Israelis are radicalized against Palestinians

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Relatively. At the very least we know that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to central and eastern Europeans than they are to the Jews that spoke Aramaic 2000 years ago. Palestinians are unquestionably more tied to the region.

are you talking purely about dna now?

A June 2023 poll conducted by Khalil Shikaki, professor of political science and director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, indicated that 79% of Gazans supported armed opposition to Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory. A Washington Institute poll from July 2023 found that only 57% of Gazans held a “somewhat positive” opinion of Hamas.


https://theconversation.com/hamas-was-unpopular-in-gaza-before-it-attacked-israel-surveys-showed-gazans-cared-more-about-fighting-poverty-than-armed-resistance-215640#:~:text=Gazans hold mixed views of Hamas&text=A Washington Institute poll from,somewhat positive” opinion of Hamas.

There's nothing surprising about oppressed people supporting armed resistance.

Peace is the only way for this shit to stop.

Tell a child that was traumatised to the core to choose peace.🤡 The side that is in power must come forward to make the first step at offering peace. And in this conflict this side is represented by Israel

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Tell a child that was traumatised to the core to choose peace.🤡 The side that is in power must come forward to make the first step at offering peace. And in this conflict this side is represented by Israel

Idk why you think I'd be under the delusion that the Palestinians have any sort of power to stop this conflict. Israel holds all the cards, they're the ones that have to stop this madness. America "could" and does have the power to intervene and force Israel to stop, but we know that ain't happening.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Idk why you think I'd be under the delusion that the Palestinians have any sort of power to stop this conflict. Israel holds all the cards, they're the ones that have to stop this madness. America "could" and does have the power to intervene and force Israel to stop, but we know that ain't happening.

Israel is like a mini Murica in the middle east when it comes to being a surveillance state incl. racial profiling and the way they express their worship for the armed forces also reminds me of Murica's army worship

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Israel is like a mini Murica in the middle east when it comes to being a surveillance state incl. racial profiling and the way they express their worship for the armed forces also reminds me of Murica's army worship

Millennial and gen Z don't engage in troop worship anymore, at least not the majority. Our generation is relatively very progressive in America.