General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Uncle Van
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- Tags #c4ng2g carrot fans are still losers carrot haters are real losers seethe at the rabbit carrot is doing nothing because she doesn't matter carrot will never join the straw hats carrot's story never even began cry about carrot everyone else in the verse neg diffs the bunny imagine thinking stussy won't join its over furry bros keep the bunny on zou nobody else needs her let it go furry bros momo is breeding yamato no character is less relevant than carrot oden larper fans can't read stussy > carrot & yamato stussy supremacy who will be the next nakama of the week? yamato always had a better chance than carrot yamato story is over
Careful, that's actually part of the lie she told Momo
Nothing is proving that Yamato still wants to go to the sea when we know that panel.
What kind of proof have you to say that Momo is "not far" from having the level to protect Wano from admiral and other threats ?
That Momo would take it pretty hard but accept it. Hence why Yamato invented a lie.
No you didn't. As I said, it was part of the lie. She would LOVE to go out to sea, but that's not her main desire anymore.
Nakama ? Debatable. But here we are not debating about Nakama as friends, but Nakama as crewmates. I don't care if Luffy consider Yamato his Nakama like Vivi what is important is who will be the next crewmate. And in that sence, a crewmate, what I calll a REAL nakama in my blog (I explained the difference) is someone with the attributes of the strawhats (on the SUNNY).
No. THere is a LOT more to be done for Yamato in term of storytelling. Yamato needs a new storyline, a post etc.
I'm sorry, but again, you just proving that you are ignoring what the strawhat have in common just to fit Yamato in the crew
Yes they means that SHE DID. Because its the THEMATIC of the arc !
1. This is not what happened.
2. Oda would have choosed a negative option, a man that his known for ALWAYS (on two exception) finishing his arc positively for all ally characters
Needless to say that what you are describing is an exception for a secondary character. This makes absolutely no sence. No logic.
Only you is saying that its bad writing. I'm saying that Yamato's story is an actual very good one with a very sweet ending that ALL OF YOU GUYS missed because of your inability to admit being wrong.
This is your logic. You prefer saying that Oda made an exception by writing a negative ending for a character in a very positive ended arc rather than admitting that you are wrong and choosing the simplest answer that is:
Oda just wrote something you didn't understand. Simple. its okay to admit it.
Nothing is proving that Yamato still wants to go to the sea when we know that panel.
What kind of proof have you to say that Momo is "not far" from having the level to protect Wano from admiral and other threats ?
That Momo would take it pretty hard but accept it. Hence why Yamato invented a lie.
No you didn't. As I said, it was part of the lie. She would LOVE to go out to sea, but that's not her main desire anymore.
Nakama ? Debatable. But here we are not debating about Nakama as friends, but Nakama as crewmates. I don't care if Luffy consider Yamato his Nakama like Vivi what is important is who will be the next crewmate. And in that sence, a crewmate, what I calll a REAL nakama in my blog (I explained the difference) is someone with the attributes of the strawhats (on the SUNNY).
No. THere is a LOT more to be done for Yamato in term of storytelling. Yamato needs a new storyline, a post etc.
I'm sorry, but again, you just proving that you are ignoring what the strawhat have in common just to fit Yamato in the crew
Yes they means that SHE DID. Because its the THEMATIC of the arc !
1. This is not what happened.
2. Oda would have choosed a negative option, a man that his known for ALWAYS (on two exception) finishing his arc positively for all ally characters
Needless to say that what you are describing is an exception for a secondary character. This makes absolutely no sence. No logic.
Only you is saying that its bad writing. I'm saying that Yamato's story is an actual very good one with a very sweet ending that ALL OF YOU GUYS missed because of your inability to admit being wrong.
This is your logic. You prefer saying that Oda made an exception by writing a negative ending for a character in a very positive ended arc rather than admitting that you are wrong and choosing the simplest answer that is:
Oda just wrote something you didn't understand. Simple. its okay to admit it.
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Yamato says here that she really still wants to go to sea with them. Zoro says that momo has a lot of pride. Yamato says I’ll come up with a reason to stay. That is the lie. The lie is that she wants to stay in Wano. The truth is she wants to go to see, but can’t. Luffy also says it would be a load of his mind.
Okay! I will not post the pages as I believe you know them and I want to save myself some time.(Sorry busy life don’t have much time for all the research). You know the panel after Momo says that he can’t rely on Luffy and co and then he uses blast burn on Greenbull, also his body is tough now that he is a grown up. Also he has Odens potential. Now that he is older, stronger and is also starting to learn how to use his DF abilities he can very quickly grow to a level where he is a power house. Maybe not a Top tier, but a high tier. At a level where he can fight admirals and together the scabbards even defeat them.
Here you are not being truthful. Momo would be hurt and send Yamato out to live her dreams. This is one of the reason why people do not want to engage with you. Because that opinion is completely biased.
Also the panel that you showed and the page that I show above is from chapter 1059.
The panels I showed earlier are from the chapter 1055 and 1056. So what’s my point. This is the chronological order of things in the one piece world
Green bull attacks
Momo and Co fight
Yamato realizes that Momo wants to protect Wano by himself and not feel useless(although he isn’t). he want to have the strength to protect his country
Shanks interferes
Yamato realizes that Momo is not on that level yet
Yamato speaks to Luffy(page above) and decides to stay a little longer. She is completely honest with Luffy and Co here as she doesnt need to lie. Also Luffy would know anyway as he is good at sensing peoples true feelings. (Explain to me from a story telling perspectives. Why would some write a flashback like that? A flashback which are used to reveal information to the reader and then have it be a lie?) The lie is what she told Momo.
Yamato tells Momo: I will start my journey here in Wano as Oden did, but I still plan to go to see. This is a lie to Momo to not make him feel bad about making her stay there.
I do agree with your point. For me a true nakama is one that sails with them. So Yamato has not joined until she joins the ship.
Come on. This statement is totally for Yamato, not Carrot.
I’m dead serious here.
Carrot actually had some chances to join the crew around the end of Whole Cake Arc (I also rooted for her at that time because I like rabbits lol), but after that she lost all her momentum since Wano has started.
You are way too biased if you didn’t see that her chance has declined significantly in Wano Arc = =
I’m dead serious here.
Carrot actually had some chances to join the crew around the end of Whole Cake Arc (I also rooted for her at that time because I like rabbits lol), but after that she lost all her momentum since Wano has started.
You are way too biased if you didn’t see that her chance has declined significantly in Wano Arc = =
I view Wano as confirming Carrot is nakama.
Each Straw Hat has a dream, significant death, mentor, and tragic backstory regarding that mentor. Luffy learned from Sabo and Ace, Luffy thought they both died, but Sabo survived. Zoro with Kuina. Nami with Bellemere. Usopp with Banchina. Sanji with Zeff (with his mother being the death, missed that before the edit). Chopper with Hiriluk. Robin with Clover. Franky with Tom. Brook with his crew. Jinbei with Otohime. Yamato with the Daimyo/Oden. Momo and Kinemon with Oden. Tama with Ace.
Any character invited to the crew in a serious fashion requires a dead mentor character and dream.
Carrot is unique along with Vivi in that her dream was originally different, but the death of their mentor characters happened in the story, rather than in a flashback.
Pedro wished to bring about the Dawn on the Pirate King's crew. Who inherited Pedro's Will? Carrot. What is One Piece about? Inherited Will. What will Carrot do? Bring about the Dawn on the Pirate King's crew. Who is the future Pirate King? Luffy. So, Carrot's on board.
Vivi's dream was what? To bring peace to Alabasta and sail with the Straw Hats. She stayed behind to rebuild Alabasta. Who is trying to destroy Alabasta? The WG, who just murdered Vivi's father, Cobra, and considers Alabasta to be enemies of the World Government. So, Vivi will rejoin now that the WG is her known enemy.
Each Straw Hat has a dream, significant death, mentor, and tragic backstory regarding that mentor. Luffy learned from Sabo and Ace, Luffy thought they both died, but Sabo survived. Zoro with Kuina. Nami with Bellemere. Usopp with Banchina. Sanji with Zeff (with his mother being the death, missed that before the edit). Chopper with Hiriluk. Robin with Clover. Franky with Tom. Brook with his crew. Jinbei with Otohime. Yamato with the Daimyo/Oden. Momo and Kinemon with Oden. Tama with Ace.
Any character invited to the crew in a serious fashion requires a dead mentor character and dream.
Carrot is unique along with Vivi in that her dream was originally different, but the death of their mentor characters happened in the story, rather than in a flashback.
Pedro wished to bring about the Dawn on the Pirate King's crew. Who inherited Pedro's Will? Carrot. What is One Piece about? Inherited Will. What will Carrot do? Bring about the Dawn on the Pirate King's crew. Who is the future Pirate King? Luffy. So, Carrot's on board.
Vivi's dream was what? To bring peace to Alabasta and sail with the Straw Hats. She stayed behind to rebuild Alabasta. Who is trying to destroy Alabasta? The WG, who just murdered Vivi's father, Cobra, and considers Alabasta to be enemies of the World Government. So, Vivi will rejoin now that the WG is her known enemy.
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Interesting, so indeed character arc don't have to be finished in one arc. But in the case of Yamato it was. And need what ? I didn't say that Yamato needed anything beside a new storyline if she is meant to become a strawhat.
The story is not over because I decided it to be but because there are all the elements of the end of a character arc:
A Desire fulfiled
A Need taken care of
A Revelation
A Choice
Its pure storytelling logic. I'm not inventing anything here. And you should know all of that.
Same thing as Ravager:
Do you think that Vivi is necessary to Alabasta ?
And
Do you think that Yamato is necessary to Wano ?
I'm not against that.
You are right, I'm wrong here. This is indeed a sign that Yamato is still wanting to go to the sea. But what you must understand is that there are two desire in Yamato mind, just like Vivi. One is just stronger that the other.
Just like Vivi
This is far from being the case tho. We see that Momo is having hard time even breathing fire and we know that a single blast breath can be countered by a single scabbard.
Momo is FAR from being ready here. Nothing proves it otherwise. We are talking about admiral coming in, the main force of the marine.
No, its just a debatable option. I can accept your opinion of this as this is just theorizing. Nothing tells us what Momo would do so your opinion is as good as mine.
Maybe, but my point is that its another story with an entirely different storyline.
I'm not against Yamato joining, not at all, I would love that. But her storyline is right now, over. the choices were made. Now, to start again, Oda would need new desires, new needs, new things to add to Yamato's storyline. Its possible. But unlikely.
You need to understand that when I say "last minute" I'm talking about the begiining of Wano, not the end.
For example ?
The story is not over because I decided it to be but because there are all the elements of the end of a character arc:
A Desire fulfiled
A Need taken care of
A Revelation
A Choice
Its pure storytelling logic. I'm not inventing anything here. And you should know all of that.
Same thing as Ravager:
Do you think that Vivi is necessary to Alabasta ?
And
Do you think that Yamato is necessary to Wano ?
I'm not against that.
You are right, I'm wrong here. This is indeed a sign that Yamato is still wanting to go to the sea. But what you must understand is that there are two desire in Yamato mind, just like Vivi. One is just stronger that the other.
Just like Vivi
This is far from being the case tho. We see that Momo is having hard time even breathing fire and we know that a single blast breath can be countered by a single scabbard.
Momo is FAR from being ready here. Nothing proves it otherwise. We are talking about admiral coming in, the main force of the marine.
No, its just a debatable option. I can accept your opinion of this as this is just theorizing. Nothing tells us what Momo would do so your opinion is as good as mine.
Maybe, but my point is that its another story with an entirely different storyline.
I'm not against Yamato joining, not at all, I would love that. But her storyline is right now, over. the choices were made. Now, to start again, Oda would need new desires, new needs, new things to add to Yamato's storyline. Its possible. But unlikely.
You need to understand that when I say "last minute" I'm talking about the begiining of Wano, not the end.
For example ?
Your argument is that we know her arc is over because everything was tied up by her choosing freely to stay in Wano. But your justification for saying she chose freely to stay in Wano is that since she needs to choose her path freely and her arc is over, she must have chosen freely. That's basic circular reasoning, just like I said before.
And spare me the Vivi thing, you know full well that their circumstances are not remotely similar beyond the surface level "stayed behind for a country" aspect. A so called master storyteller should be able to see more nuance than that.
And spare me the Vivi thing, you know full well that their circumstances are not remotely similar beyond the surface level "stayed behind for a country" aspect. A so called master storyteller should be able to see more nuance than that.
Yes and that the simplest and most beautiful answer.
Really I don't know how to say that in another way, maybe I should try french, it could work..
You know what needs are in a story right ?
The circumstances with Vivi are EXACTLY THE SAME:
- Vivi wants to join the strawhat
- Vivi is necessary to her people
- Vivi chooses the responsibility over selfishness
- Vivi stays
- Yamato wants to join the strawhat
- Yamato is necessary to wano survival
- Yamato chooses the responsibility over selfishness
- Yamato stays
Its amazing how similar those character arc are in fact. They are literally the SAME with different reasonnings.
Really I don't know how to say that in another way, maybe I should try french, it could work..
You know what needs are in a story right ?
The circumstances with Vivi are EXACTLY THE SAME:
- Vivi wants to join the strawhat
- Vivi is necessary to her people
- Vivi chooses the responsibility over selfishness
- Vivi stays
- Yamato wants to join the strawhat
- Yamato is necessary to wano survival
- Yamato chooses the responsibility over selfishness
- Yamato stays
Its amazing how similar those character arc are in fact. They are literally the SAME with different reasonnings.
I see you have no excuse. Give me evidence that Vivi chose freely that doesn't require her story to be over or give me evidence her story is over that doesn't require her to have chosen freely. If you can't, then it's circular reasing. Speaking french isn't an excuse.
I'm not going to argue about Vivi because it's just distracting from the point.
I'm not going to argue about Vivi because it's just distracting from the point.
