Powers & Abilities Zoro and the Scabbards

[Rivaille]

What people don't understand is that no one is claiming Zoro is below or even as strong as Killer or something. He was matching KIller just fine with nitoryu and Oda had to use an excuse for Killer to land the hit(distraction coming from the fox), and did manage to one shot Killer afterwards with santoryu, but the fact is that his endurance display at that moment was very pathetic and there is no excuse about it, with the stomach ache excuse reminiscing the Sanji-Usopp level injuries that were up to date in the Vergo debates, which sounds like a great amount of double standard

I do not see why it is pathetic honestly.
Zoro has always been weak to peircing attack.
This absolutely do not change the endurance feats that he has shown against slashing and blunt attacks. But some people absolutely want to brush off all of Zoro’s feats during the totality of the story because of that (especially the TB’s one).

Why it is different for Sanji? Because:

-Sanji never has his legs bone broken before Vergo
-Sanji’s legs are supposed to be the strongest part of his body
-If Zoro’s swords would have been broke or receive a nick it wouid have been on the same level of Sanji’s broken leg.

 

[ZoroGang]

Sure, but that's on the author to write a better way to hand Zoro enma, there are countless ways to do it. My takeaway from that scene isn't really Zoro has weak endurance, it's Oda doesn't respect Zoro enough to not have him fall in that manner. I can't see someone like Doflamingo, Katakuri any one on that level or even close to it being placed in that situation by Oda, they're handled with more care when it comes to their power. Disappointed Zoro was used in such a manner.

Like Nidai said, a bit of it had to be saving face for Killer, but then again there would be no need to save face for Killer if he got bodied by a commander level character (like Mingo) so that there tells me a lot.

Lmfao did you really say he wouldn’t do doflamingo or katakuri in that manner? Those fools took there l from luffy and are gone from the spotlight forever . No more crazy feats for them we are watching luffy and zoro grow The Pk and Wss gotta go through a lip difficulties bet it won’t happen again

 

[ZenZu]

Lmfao did you really say he wouldn’t do doflamingo or katakuri in that manner? Those fools took there l from luffy and are gone from the spotlight forever . No more crazy feats for them we are watching luffy and zoro grow The Pk and Wss gotta go through a lip difficulties bet it won’t happen again

You got me there, he would totally draw Doflamingo passing out from a stomach ache, gamma knife wasn't potent enough for his stomach.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

You got me there, he would totally draw Doflamingo passing out from a stomach ache, gamma knife wasn't potent enough for his stomach.

Dude, you are having a field day against these weakass replies Not fair

 

[nik87]

Try letting this excuse pass the next time you are debating a Sanji fan. See how it goes.

Seems like another guy whose brain has trouble starting...

Where did Oda go with Sanji's leg crack?
Where did Oda go with Zoro fainting?

Did I give too much away? Did I make it too easy?

 

[ZenZu]

Dude, you are having a field day against these weakass replies Not fair

lmao. I was ignoring them before but the stomache ache thing is just so irresistible. Has this been memed yet? Surprised it hasn't caught on. "Stomache ache GG"

 

[ZoroGang]

Dude, you are having a field day against these weakass replies Not fair

He’s doing nothing get off his nuts

Post automatically merged: Sep 24, 2019

You got me there, he would totally draw Doflamingo passing out from a stomach ache, gamma knife wasn't potent enough for his stomach.

Doflamingo is irrelevant trash . Enma zoro one shots

Post automatically merged: Sep 24, 2019

You got me there, he would totally draw Doflamingo passing out from a stomach ache, gamma knife wasn't potent enough for his stomach.

Ganma knife literally did nothing Lmfaoo zoro and luffy take ganma knife nd one shots law

 

[ZenZu]

Seems like another guy whose brain has trouble starting...

Where did Oda go with Sanji's leg crack?
Where did Oda go with Zoro fainting?

Did I give too much away? Did I make it too easy?

I was gonna give you a point for making sense, but realized that's not even what I was talking about with that response.

 

[Cyrus the Cactus]

Sure, but that's on the author to write a better way to hand Zoro enma, there are countless ways to do it. My takeaway from that scene isn't really Zoro has weak endurance, it's Oda doesn't respect Zoro enough to not have him fall in that manner. I can't see someone like Doflamingo, Katakuri any one on that level or even close to it being placed in that situation by Oda, they're handled with more care when it comes to their power. Disappointed Zoro was used in such a manner.

Like Nidai said, a bit of it had to be saving face for Killer, but then again there would be no need to save face for Killer if he got bodied by a commander level character (like Mingo) so that there tells me a lot.

Eh, it's like Oda having Kid break out of jail then get captured off screen by fodder to be brought back I guess.

And it's a little unfair to compare the final boss of an arc, who only gets taken down at the very end to one of the protagonists who have to suffer set backs for "tension"

 

[nik87]

I was gonna give you a point for making sense, but realized that's not even what I was talking about with that response.

You said plot element wasnt going to be acknowledged by X fans. Who cares if someone accepts it or not?
In Zoro's case, it is obvious plot element which didnt go anywhere while in Sanji's case he got RS so his legs dont crack next time.

 

[ZenZu]

Eh, it's like Oda having Kid break out of jail then get captured off screen by fodder to be brought back I guess.

In some ways you can say that, but atleast in that case we know Kidd was so mindblown he didn't care about his surroundings at all.

And it's a little unfair to compare the final boss of an arc, who only gets taken down at the very end to one of the protagonists who have to suffer set backs for "tension"

fair enough but then the panel time distribution isn't exactly "fair" to begin with when it comes to the protags and supporting cast.

You said plot element wasnt going to be acknowledged by X fans. Who cares if someone accepts it or not?
In Zoro's case, it is obvious plot element which didnt go anywhere while in Sanji's case he got RS so his legs dont crack next time.

This is a very oddly specific comparison you've brought up, did I say I disagree with this in particular anywhere?

How about bringing up Zoro bleeding against Hawkins? What storyarc did that provide for the plot? Mans really think they're slick putting words in my mouth lmao.

 

[Finalbeta]

Doffy was pretty fazed for the internal trauma the GK caused him on the other hand Luffy mostly had fatigue :cheers:

 

[HA001]

In some ways you can say that, but atleast in that case we know Kidd was so mindblown he didn't care about his surroundings at all.


fair enough but then the panel time distribution isn't exactly "fair" to begin with when it comes to the protags and supporting cast.



This is a very oddly specific comparison you've brought up, did I say I disagree with this in particular anywhere?

How about bringing up Zoro bleeding against Hawkins? What storyarc did that provide for the plot? Mans really think they're slick putting words in my mouth lmao.

So what if he bled ?
Ls lmfao zoro won both encounters he one shot killer and held hawkins off so they could get tama to safety. Even inverse people were saying zoro held him off but these are ls now. Thats reaching if ive ever seen.

 

[Guan Yu]

Ashura, Kawamatsu, and Denjiro is more or less on an equal level.

Spoiler

And this is what happened when Ashura and Jack fight.

Spoiler

Jack is fully prepared to fight Ashura, yet Ashura was able to not only slashed Jack, but also cut Jack's sword i n the process.

While this is what happened when Kawamatsu tried to attack Zoro from behind.

Spoiler

Kawatsu tried to attack Zoro from behind who was still fighting with Gyukimaru, yet Zoro was able to block it with ease. Not only that, Kawamatsu was also seen to be surprised by that and then back tracked to put some distance between him and Zoro.

Both Zoro and Jack was attacked by people who's more or less on the same level, yet the result is totally different.


And then Zoro was given Enma, a sword which ever since it's forged no one have ever tamed it. Not Kawa, Ashura, or Denjiro. Not Hyougoro, who's teaching Luffy Ryuo. Not Yasui'e who's said to be the candidate for the new Shogun of Wano after Shukiyaki. Not even Ushimaru, a master swordsman who was able to resist Kaido and his forces for two years. No one except for Oden.

Spoiler

Yet Zoro was able to tamed it swiftly.

At first use, Zoro cut off a cliff when he was just trying to cut off a tree.

Spoiler

The sword sucked off Zoro's haki and make his arm shriveled, and yet Zoro was able to instantly command it to return his haki and his arm get back to normal. Even Hitetsu himself commend him and said that if it were any normal swordsman, he would have been sucked off dry.

Spoiler

And Kawamatsu who was previously against the idea of giving Enma to Zoro was then amazed by it.

Spoiler

And only after a couples of day of training with Enma, Zoro was already able to command it to cut as he wishes, such as demonstrated when he cut the bamboo forest.

Spoiler

Zoro has able to tame Enma, a sword which ever since it's forged no one have ever tamed it. No one except for Oden, yet Zoro was capable of taming it too.

It's a clear cut portrayal by Oda that Zoro is more or less on the same level of Oden, or at least close to it, And above any of the scabbards including Kawa, Ashura, Denjiro, Inu, and Neko.

 

[Geo]

It is true that Zoro passed out mainly from Killer's attack. However, I don't see the point of using that to claim that he has poor endurance etc when he defeated his opponent before going down.
Just like how you wouldn't claim that Luffy's endurance was poor because he almost died from Hody's bite... The same should be applied here when Zoro got hit with an even stronger attack.
Using that to say Zoro has poor endurance will only make you look stupid later in the arc.


Also how do you all explain Kawamatsu praising Zoro for being able to tame the sword? Isn't that more portrayal of Zoro being above him and by extension above the others?

 

[OmegaPsyche]

If u support Zoro & go against Zenzu u better bring good arguments cause he ain't a Sanjiboy which u can easily troll. & unlike Sanjiboys he actually makes accurate points.

 

[nik87]

I wonder what ZenZu's point was in the first place... Looked like he doesn't accept plot as a reason because Sanji fans wont accept it and then he says he doesn't disagree with it... Then mentions Zoro bleeding to Hawkins' nails...

 

[Inspector_Mu]

Wait this is a thing? Lmfao good lord.

Not even the fact that he did or didn't have a stomache ache. I think his stomach possibly affected him but Ace and Jimbei were being held in prison for ages. Hunger, fatigue, injuries. You name it, and they were released immediately into the biggest war we've ever seen. Jimbei was stopping Admirals, picking off shichibukai, and tons more, lasted virtually the entire war.

But a little skirmish, and one attack by Killer was enough for Zoro to pass out thanks to hunger or a tummy ache. Call it what you want but it doesnt really make much of a difference, does it mean that's his limit under natural conditions? No, but it's a bad look for Zoro either way.

And I used to think the Sanji fandom was bad with the damage control but I'm seeing new heights reached.

Just replace g4 wankers and Sanji fans with zoro fans and Enma wankers

There you have I... same effect, same delusional posts

 

[ZenZu]

And this is what happened when Ashura and Jack fight.

Spoiler

Jack is fully prepared to fight Ashura, yet Ashura was able to not only slashed Jack, but also cut Jack's sword i n the process.

While this is what happened when Kawamatsu tried to attack Zoro from behind.

Spoiler

Kawatsu tried to attack Zoro from behind who was still fighting with Gyukimaru, yet Zoro was able to block it with ease. Not only that, Kawamatsu was also seen to be surprised by that and then back tracked to put some distance between him and Zoro.

Both Zoro and Jack was attacked by people who's more or less on the same level, yet the result is totally different.

Let me just address this since this seems to be the main argument being presented by the Zoro proven > scabbards crowd.

Your entire argument is held together by something as trivial as this? Lol...a casual attack in which he wasn't even aiming to hurt Zoro (more likely aiming to disarm him).

He yelled out to wait ("cease the fight" in viz) before he threw the sword.

Spoiler

Meaning he was clearly just trying to stop the two from fighting, not hurting anyone. Also remind me the next time I'm trying to sneak attack someone I'll let them know I'm there before I attack, bet it'll work wonders.

Then he pointed out how the two of them weren't even trying to kill themselves.

Spoiler

But sure one of the nicest and most honourable people who follows a Samurai code, would stoop to stabbing a man (he knows isn't even in a serious battle) in the back before he knows who that man is or what his motives are?

We've really hit the peak of overselling something now haven't we? Even Sanji's jellybean dodge starts looking like a way more impressive feat (aim was to kill, and it was a complete sneak attack), that sure showed us how superior Sanji was to Katakuri.

And you thought comparing this to a serious battle against Jack was a good idea how? Not to mention let's wait for this frog to even get some feats.

Also how do you all explain Kawamatsu praising Zoro for being able to tame the sword? Isn't that more portrayal of Zoro being above him and by extension above the others?

He never praised Zoro for being able to tame the sword, is that a future sight feat days into the future? He praised Zoro for taking up the challenge to try and tame the sword.

He is impressed with Zoro's attitude more than anything, notice when the cliff was cut not one single scabbard gave a shit, they aren't surprised by that power because they're probably familiar with Enma, nor were they surprised by Zoro's power to cut the cliff (meaning it's not that great of a feat in their eyes), specifically Ashura Doji (most likely the strongest scabbard) has not been shown on panel even once giving a single shit about Zoro.

I said this in my original post, we are really going to hang on and oversell such ambiguous scenes, and ignore arcs worth of battle feats and portrayal for what exactly?

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Sure, but that's on the author to write a better way to hand Zoro enma, there are countless ways to do it. My takeaway from that scene isn't really Zoro has weak endurance, it's Oda doesn't respect Zoro enough to not have him fall in that manner. I can't see someone like Doflamingo, Katakuri any one on that level or even close to it being placed in that situation by Oda, they're handled with more care when it comes to their power. Disappointed Zoro was used in such a manner.

Like Nidai said, a bit of it had to be saving face for Killer, but then again there would be no need to save face for Killer if he got bodied by a commander level character (like Mingo) so that there tells me a lot.

Luffy almost died to a fish/hody, BM could of gotten thrown in water when she passed out, Ceasar one shotted Luffy, seducing woods manhandled Chopper. Oda isn't afraid to make any character look bad no matter how strong they are especially the SH who are more prominent in the story so they will eventually look bad.

Post automatically merged: Sep 26, 2019

Let me just address this since this seems to be the main argument being presented by the Zoro proven > scabbards crowd.

Your entire argument is held together by something as trivial as this? Lol...a casual attack in which he wasn't even aiming to hurt Zoro (more likely aiming to disarm him).

He yelled out to wait ("cease the fight" in viz) before he threw the sword.

Spoiler

Meaning he was clearly just trying to stop the two from fighting, not hurting anyone. Also remind me the next time I'm trying to sneak attack someone I'll let them know I'm there before I attack, bet it'll work wonders.

Then he pointed out how the two of them weren't even trying to kill themselves.

Spoiler

But sure one of the nicest and most honourable people who follows a Samurai code, would stoop to stabbing a man (he knows isn't even in a serious battle) in the back before he knows who that man is or what his motives are?

We've really hit the peak of overselling something now haven't we? Even Sanji's jellybean dodge starts looking like a way more impressive feat (aim was to kill, and it was a complete sneak attack), that sure showed us how superior Sanji was to Katakuri.

And you thought comparing this to a serious battle against Jack was a good idea how? Not to mention let's wait for this frog to even get some feats.



He never praised Zoro for being able to tame the sword, is that a future sight feat days into the future? He praised Zoro for taking up the challenge to try and tame the sword.

He is impressed with Zoro's attitude more than anything, notice when the cliff was cut not one single scabbard gave a shit, they aren't surprised by that power because they're probably familiar with Enma, nor were they surprised by Zoro's power to cut the cliff (meaning it's not that great of a feat in their eyes), specifically Ashura Doji (most likely the strongest scabbard) has not been shown on panel even once giving a single shit about Zoro.

I said this in my original post, we are really going to hang on and oversell such ambiguous scenes, and ignore arcs worth of battle feats and portrayal for what exactly?

I think your literally ignoring everything to come to this conclusion. Kapa didn't even want Zoro to have the Sword and thinks Zoro has mental issues. He goes from thinking that to calling him amazing. Hitesu who seems to be well verse in Swords starts to play with the idea that this guy can do something Oden couldn't after watching train for a few days. This is the man who cut Kaido and Tamed Enma, but he thinks some random guy he met 4 days ago will surpass him.