Controversial General Political Discussion

[Haoshoku]

I don't think Roo is ignorant on the history of the conflict. He's just taking the "enlightened centrist" position.

Taking positions like that is tantamount to ignorance on it as a whole regardless. The reality is that what you have there is one of the last colonization projects in the world and an active apartheid. I’m not one that likes to use these charged terms but it’s simply the reality. Acting like there’s an equal tit for tat going on couldn’t be more telling of ignorance.

Speaking from experience? considering you think Israel fought a bunch of farmers with a shotgun with b-2 stealth bombers lol

Where did I even say that?

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Taking positions like that is tantamount to ignorance on it as a whole regardless. The reality is that what you have there is one of the last colonization projects in the world and an active apartheid. I’m not one that likes to use these charged terms but it’s simply the reality.

I mean, anyone with an unbiased approach will agree, but you're not talking to someone that's exactly "unbiased"

 

[Roo]

Where did I even say that?

ill equipped locals in comparison since the 1900s get your history right.

I literally bold it. Israel and Arab nations(yes, nations not random locals) were both equipped with western and soviet weaponry.

 

[Haoshoku]

I literally bold it. Israel and Arab nations(yes, nations not random locals) were both equipped with western and soviet weaponry.

Strictly talking about the local Palestinians from then till now, they’ve either been unarmed (as was the case in the beginning, look at the Deir Yasin massacre) or ill equipped in most other cases. Countries have jumped in to support their resistance but they were defeated and eventually normalized (Jordan, Eygpt) before they could even accomplish anything. The other Arab countries fell into their own chaos. The local populace have been otherwise resisting mostly by themselves and have not been successful in the face of the far more powerful occupier who’s been routinely armed to the teeth by the West.

On the other hand we got the most ahistorical take on your end:

There has been, literally a tit for tat since the early 1900s.

According to Merriam Websters

tit for tat

noun phrase

ˌtit-fər-ˈtat ​

: an equivalent given in return (as for an injury) : retaliation in kind

Where is the tit for tat in all of this:

Spoiler

 

[Roo]

Strictly talking about the local Palestinians from then till now, they’ve either been unarmed (as was the case in the beginning, look at the Deir Yasin massacre) or ill equipped in most other cases. Countries have jumped in to support their resistance but they were defeated and eventually normalized (Jordan, Eygpt) before they could even accomplish anything. The other Arab countries fell into their own chaos. The local populace have been otherwise resisting mostly by themselves and have not been successful in the face of the far more powerful occupier who’s been routinely armed to the teeth by the West.

But this is outright wrong. The local Palestinians were provided weapons by the nations who governed them(ones I mentioned earlier) and by proxy by both the soviets and the west.

Egypt and Jordan weren't fighting wars on behalf of the Palestinians, they were fighting WITH them.

On the other hand we got the most ahistorical take on your end:

According to Merriam Websters

Where is the tit for tat in all of this:

Spoiler

Ahistorical?

yes tit for tat lmao. Inforgraphics from Al Jazeera? seriously man? it doesn't get more propagandistic than that

 

[Haoshoku]

But this is outright wrong. The local Palestinians were provided weapons by the nations who governed them(ones I mentioned earlier) and by proxy by both the soviets and the west.

Egypt and Jordan weren't fighting wars on behalf of the Palestinians, they were fighting WITH them.



Ahistorical?

yes tit for tat lmao. Inforgraphics from Al Jazeera? seriously man? it doesn't get more propagandistic than that

And @Toby D. Dog was saying this was the “enlightened centrist” position lmao y’all got me weak out here for such a serious issue. Convinent how you only pull up a Wikipedia list of mostly minor clashes in the 30s in response and ignore the rest of what happened afterwards. These very clashes are as a result of Europeans occupying their land to begin with. Don’t give me that cop out this is all sourced and backed go read what Ilan Pappe, a Israeli historian has to say surely he ain’t as “propagandistic” lol.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

And @Toby D. Dog was saying this was the “enlightened centrist” position lmao y’all got me weak out here for such a serious issue. Convinent how you only pull up a Wikipedia list of mostly minor clashes in the 30s in response and ignore the rest of what happened afterwards. These very clashes are as a result of Europeans occupying their land to begin with. Don’t give me that cop out this is all sourced and backed go read what Ilan Pappe, a Israeli historian has to say surely he ain’t as “propagandistic” lol.

If you know who Bill Maher is then you'd understand what I mean by "enlightened centrist"

 

[Haoshoku]

If you know who Bill Maher is then you'd understand what I mean by "enlightened centrist"

Bill Maher….that’s a clown I haven’t heard in a while. I get it now. @Roo Take your L, even Logiko agrees with us on this.

 

[Ravagerblade]

And @Toby D. Dog was saying this was the “enlightened centrist” position lmao y’all got me weak out here for such a serious issue. Convinent how you only pull up a Wikipedia list of mostly minor clashes in the 30s in response and ignore the rest of what happened afterwards. These very clashes are as a result of Europeans occupying their land to begin with. Don’t give me that cop out this is all sourced and backed go read what Ilan Pappe, a Israeli historian has to say surely he ain’t as “propagandistic” lol.

Couldn't anybody literally just claim anybody from the opposing side is a "propagandist"? What is the definitive standard that separates such?

 

[Roo]

And @Toby D. Dog was saying this was the “enlightened centrist” position lmao y’all got me weak out here for such a serious issue.

Having a more nuanced opinion than a tiktoker makes me an "enlightned centrist" lmao

It's called using your brain and not being driven by ideology.

Convinent how you only pull up a Wikipedia list of mostly minor clashes in the 30s in response

bruh it's not "convenient", it's literally the record of massacres in mandatory palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

It is tit for tat is they're both attacking each other.

and ignore the rest of what happened afterwards. This is all sourced and backed go read what Ilan Pappe, a Israeli historian has to say surely he ain’t as “propagandistic” lol.

Yes, a guy known for being insanely pro palestinian lmao.

What is propagandistic is the painting here. "poor palestinian getting killed for no reason" when a quickly google search shows they were both attacking each other

Post automatically merged: Apr 17, 2024

Bill Maher….that’s a clown I haven’t heard in a while. I get it now. @Roo Take your L, even Logiko agrees with us on this.

bruh I don't think that's the shining endorsement you think it is

 

[Haoshoku]

Having a more nuanced opinion than a tiktoker makes me an "enlightned centrist" lmao

It's called using your brain and not being driven by ideology

Tiktoker? I never downloaded that Chinese app, don’t take me for one of those people just because I called you out for your ahistorical nonsense lol.

Yes, a guy known for being insanely pro palestinian lmao.

Roo when provided with facts about the colonization of Palestinians “That’s Pro Palestinian Propaganda!”

What’s next?
The UN is pro Palestinian with all of their condemnatory statements regarding Israel?

Was the Balfour Declaration pro Palestinian?

What is propagandistic is the painting here. "poor palestinian getting killed for no reason" when a quickly google search shows they were both attacking each othe

So when the Europeans started settling in their land were they attacked by Palestinians prior?

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Tiktoker? I never downloaded that Chinese app, don’t take me for one of those people just because I called you out for your ahistorical nonsense lol.


Roo when provided with facts about the colonization of Palestinians “That’s Pro Palestinian Propaganda!”

What’s next?
The UN is pro Palestinian with all of their condemnatory statements regarding Israel?

Was the Balfour Declaration pro Palestinian?



So when the Europeans started settling in their land were they attacked by Palestinians prior?

But Palestinians need to be civilised. They are primitive and must be saved for their own good.

…is what I would say if I were a bigot and raging racist

 

[Toby D. Dog]

But Palestinians need to be civilised. They are primitive and must be saved for their own good.

…is what I would say if I were a bigot and raging racist

 

[Roo]

Tiktoker? I never downloaded that Chinese app, don’t take me for one of those people just because I called you out for your ahistorical nonsense lol.

Ahistorical? I don't think you know what that word means lol

I literally provided records. Posting emotes won't really help your case.

Roo when provided with facts about the colonization of Palestinians “That’s Pro Palestinian Propaganda!”

What’s next?
The UN is pro Palestinian with all of their condemnatory statements regarding Israel?

???

We are talking about the violence. You provided an infographic that was propagandistic. it literally paints the violence on one side, I pointed out that no, they've been killing each other for a while.

and yes, Pappe has been criticized for being extremely biased.

In August 2021, following the translation of his book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine into Hebrew, the historian Adam Raz published a review in Haaretz[50] criticizing Pappé as a historian whose work "suffers from negligence, manipulations and mistakes galore, and the result is not serious research". In the article, Raz presents various examples of "lies", inaccuracies, and the lack of sources for Pappé's various claims, the most prominent of which is the latter's claim that "rape took place in every village," without citing a source, while ignoring publications that contradict this claim, such as Tal Nitzan's study: "Boundaries of Occupation: The Rarity of Military Rape in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict".[51] The title of the article "Selective Reading" refers, among other things, to such a reading of the diaries of Theodor Herzl and Ben-Gurion, Berl Katzenelson and Israel Galili.[50] This critique is consistent with the critique of other historians such as Morris and Yoav Gelber

You bolded "Israeli Historian" as if it was supposed to make him unbiased but the reality is he probably has bias against early israelis.

it's like me quoting an anti palestinian historian to paint the palestinians as savages or something

Was the Balfour Declaration pro Palestinian?

what the fuck are you babbling about lmao, fighting ghost over there?

So when the Europeans started settling in their land were they attacked by Palestinians prior?

You do realize you could have 2 thoughts at the same time right?

Palestinians were violently rejecting the jewish settlers, the jewish settlers attacked back

oh no, is that what we call...tit for tat???

 

[Haoshoku]

But Palestinians need to be civilised. They are primitive and must be saved for their own good.

…is what I would say if I were a bigot and raging racist

People who think that there’s an equivalent distribution of violence and war between both sides will always sound bigoted when confronted with the bloody reality.

Ahistorical? I don't think you know what that word means lol

I literally provided records. Posting emotes won't really help your case.


???

We are talking about the violence. You provided an infographic that was propagandistic. it literally paints the violence on one side, I pointed out that no, they've been killing each other for a while.

and yes, Pappe has been criticized for being extremely biased.




You bolded "Israeli Historian" as if it was supposed to make him unbiased but the reality is he probably has bias against early israelis.

it's like me quoting an anti palestinian historian to paint the palestinians as savages or something


what the fuck are you babbling about lmao, fighting ghost over there?



You do realize you could have 2 thoughts at the same time right?

Palestinians were violently rejecting the jewish settlers, the jewish settlers attacked back

oh no, is that what we call...tit for tat???

Man talking about propagandistic…Adam Raz and the Haaretz couldn’t be more propagandistic for the Israeli Zionist narrative. Give me a source that’s unbiased and not anti-Palestinian, you not even holding up to your own lame standards lol. No part of your argument has been “nuanced” so far, the fact that you seem to be clueless about the Balfour Declaration says it all.

At first they weren’t, the locals actually opened their doors out of hospitality. Things went violent when terrorist gangs like the Irgun started forming and killing people and when the locals realized there was a whole colonist ploy to displace them from their own homeland. Where are the numerous massacres, displacements and occupation of the Israelis by the local Palestinian populace in the “tit for tat” between them?

Post automatically merged: Apr 17, 2024

Ayo if THIS is the “enlightened” centrist position then Murica is doomed not that Murica wasn’t already on the decline. Even normies know about what’s been happening.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

People who think that there’s an equivalent distribution of violence and war between both sides will always sound bigoted when confronted with the bloody reality

If we took one factor out, the European Jews would have never had a need to settle in Israel.

And that factor is Christian Europe's relentless antisemitism. It's not like the Nazis invented that shitty, nonsensical mindset

 

[Haoshoku]

If we took one factor out, the European Jews would have never had a need to settle in Israel.

And that factor is Christian Europe's relentless antisemitism. It's not like the Nazis invented that shitty, nonsensical mindset

You’re sounding educated for once, I was scanning the post for any baiting

Yeah Europe has a history of putrid antisemitism while in the East it was far different. Many Jews fleeing the violence in Christendom found refuge and flourished in places like Andalusia or in Ottoman lands. The greatest legal scholar in Judaism Maimonides grew up in Andalusia and didn’t only benefit from living there but also used theological aspects of Islam to revive Judaism he even later on became the doctor of the famed Saladin

 

[Roo]

.

Man talking about propagandistic…Adam Raz and the Haaretz couldn’t be more propagandistic for the Israeli Zionist narrative. Give me a source that’s unbiased and not anti-Palestinian, you not even holding up to your own lame standards lol. No part of your argument has been “nuanced” so far, the fact that you seem to be clueless about the Balfour Declaration says it all.

Hareetz is pro Zionist? LMAO


Do you realize you just called the biggest left wing Israeli publication pro Zionist?

Andrea Levin, executive director of the pro-Israel Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), said Haaretz was doing "damage to the truth" and sometimes making serious factual errors without correcting them.[59]According to The Jerusalem Post, Haaretz editor-in-chief David Landau said at the 2007 Limmudconference in Moscow that he had told his staff not to report on criminal investigations against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in order to promote Sharon's 2004–2005 Gaza disengagement plan.[60] In April 2017, Haaretz published an op-ed by a staff writer that said the Israeli religious right was worse than Hezbollah.[61][62] Condemnation followed, including from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, President Reuven Rivlin, and other government ministers and MPs, as well as from Opposition Leader Isaac Herzog.[63]

bruh you instantly assume anybody Israeli is pro Israeli without even looking into them. You did the same with Pappe. Is this a reflection? Are you that blindly loyal to your ethnic group?

trust me there’s a bunch of Americans who are anti USA.

.
At first they weren’t, the locals actually opened their doors out of hospitality. Things went violent when terrorist gangs like the Irgun started forming and killing people and when the locals realized there was a whole colonist ploy to displace them from their own homeland. Where are the numerous massacres, displacements and occupation of the Israelis by the local Palestinian populace in the “tit for tat” between them?

I literally provided you a Wikipedia page of all the recorded mass killings. If you can’t find them there you probably made the up in your head

.

Post automatically merged: Apr 17, 2024

Ayo if THIS is the “enlightened” centrist position then Murica is doomed not that Murica wasn’t already on the decline. Even normies know about what’s been happening.

Next to retards who can’t even waste a second to verify what they say ofc I’m enlightened lol

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Hareetz is pro Zionist? LMAO


Do you realize you just called the biggest left wing Israeli publication pro Zionist?



bruh you instantly assume anybody Israeli is pro Israeli without even looking into them. You did the same with Pappe. Is this a reflection? Are you that blindly loyal to your ethnic group?

trust me there’s a bunch of Americans who are anti USA.


I literally provided you a Wikipedia page of all the recorded mass killings. If you can’t find them there you probably made the up in your head


Next to retards who can’t even waste a second to verify what they say ofc I’m enlightened lol

I’m pretty sure Haaretz is liberal Zionist

 

[Roo]

I’m pretty sure Haaretz is liberal Zionist

https://english.elpais.com/opinion/...acks-on-israeli-democracy.html?outputType=amp

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-774848

Define Zionist