Yes! This should be the main lesson for Ousen from this battle. He needs couple of martial brutes in his own army who can go up against any top tier martial power. He can’t just depend on other armies to fill in for his weaknesses. Imagine what would happen if Ousen faces SBS alone without any allied armies on both sides. The result will be the same. This is a good time to improve his core army and become unbeatable in the future
Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
- Start date
- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
Here’s how I see it:
-As a great general, you don’t want to micromanage your generals. We really rarely seen great generals interfere with the actions of their subordinate commanders because you want your subs to be able to operate freely without micromanaging them, because they know their own strengths better than you do.
Look at Shukai, the HSU and Gyoku Hou awakened specifically because Ousen did nothing. Just as an example. The best generals like Riboku/Renpa/Ouki largely gave their subordinates completely free rein over how they approached their battlefields. Even at Bayou Ouki never ordered Moubu not to pursue too deeply, he simply recommended that Moubu not do that while leaving the ultimate decision up to Moubu.
So when Akou and Shin moved to slay Riboku, no GG would go and reverse the decisions of their own subs like that. Especially when Ousen was that confident in Akou to begin with. And btw @Xione , Ousen probably didn’t need to send messengers to Akou, he could’ve probably communicated instantly via flags like Ouki did or what not. Some other visual way of giving orders that doesn’t rely on messengers.
-As for Ousen being too dependent on Shin, I always had the opposite issue with Hango lmfao. From the start I said my biggest issue with Ousen at Hango was this mf actually thought Sou Ou and Akou could slay Shibashou lol. But the more I look at it, the more Ousen had no choice but to bank on those two since the alternative was retreat which would’ve been an immediate Qin L. So really Ousen had no choice but to bet on Akou and Sou Ou there.
-To defend Ousen, the greatest generals of all time are the ones who make effective use of their subs. As great as Ouki and Renpa were, they also had amazing subordinates and had to utilize them intelligently to win. Riboku himself has always taken advantage of huge martial units, so I don’t blame Ousen for being this dependent on Shin because that’s just what the best generals do.
Ultimately it’s like Riboku said, Zhao won because they had more information. Riboku knew Shibashou could curbstomp Ousen so long as Ousen couldn’t utilize Shin or Ouhon. Meanwhile Ousen knew nothing about Shibashou, and so it was harder for him to formulate a strategy without knowing what his enemy was capable of.
People are dogpiling on Ousen but it’s not so easy to make an actual battle plan when you don’t know shit about the army directly across from you. Meanwhile Riboku had all the intel, so he recognized exactly how to put Ousen in checkmate on day 1. Things would’ve been much different for Zhao if Ousen had intel on Shibashou from the start.
-As a great general, you don’t want to micromanage your generals. We really rarely seen great generals interfere with the actions of their subordinate commanders because you want your subs to be able to operate freely without micromanaging them, because they know their own strengths better than you do.
Look at Shukai, the HSU and Gyoku Hou awakened specifically because Ousen did nothing. Just as an example. The best generals like Riboku/Renpa/Ouki largely gave their subordinates completely free rein over how they approached their battlefields. Even at Bayou Ouki never ordered Moubu not to pursue too deeply, he simply recommended that Moubu not do that while leaving the ultimate decision up to Moubu.
So when Akou and Shin moved to slay Riboku, no GG would go and reverse the decisions of their own subs like that. Especially when Ousen was that confident in Akou to begin with. And btw @Xione , Ousen probably didn’t need to send messengers to Akou, he could’ve probably communicated instantly via flags like Ouki did or what not. Some other visual way of giving orders that doesn’t rely on messengers.
-As for Ousen being too dependent on Shin, I always had the opposite issue with Hango lmfao. From the start I said my biggest issue with Ousen at Hango was this mf actually thought Sou Ou and Akou could slay Shibashou lol. But the more I look at it, the more Ousen had no choice but to bank on those two since the alternative was retreat which would’ve been an immediate Qin L. So really Ousen had no choice but to bet on Akou and Sou Ou there.
-To defend Ousen, the greatest generals of all time are the ones who make effective use of their subs. As great as Ouki and Renpa were, they also had amazing subordinates and had to utilize them intelligently to win. Riboku himself has always taken advantage of huge martial units, so I don’t blame Ousen for being this dependent on Shin because that’s just what the best generals do.
Ultimately it’s like Riboku said, Zhao won because they had more information. Riboku knew Shibashou could curbstomp Ousen so long as Ousen couldn’t utilize Shin or Ouhon. Meanwhile Ousen knew nothing about Shibashou, and so it was harder for him to formulate a strategy without knowing what his enemy was capable of.
People are dogpiling on Ousen but it’s not so easy to make an actual battle plan when you don’t know shit about the army directly across from you. Meanwhile Riboku had all the intel, so he recognized exactly how to put Ousen in checkmate on day 1. Things would’ve been much different for Zhao if Ousen had intel on Shibashou from the start.
No idea tbh, since the flags at that time were used due to it being a mountainous terrain. Was it ever used in Shukai? Idrr. And of course even if he did, do a flag Akou would've had to have seen it on time while charging. Him looking at Riboku and then charging happened pretty quick. Then once caught in the trap, had he tried retreat bro was going to get killed No doubt by some backstab, Boku would've made sure.
The best idea after getting caught in the gangbang was def. to try and repell it on his own. Rather than attempt a retreat and/or have Ousen move his formations and SBS n co fucking them by finding a key opening.
But yea like you said info was the big issue. Rather than Ousen, I'm more curious to see how the HSU will grow from this. Them being sealed off by falling for Boku's trap was the catalyst for all this after all.
The best idea after getting caught in the gangbang was def. to try and repell it on his own. Rather than attempt a retreat and/or have Ousen move his formations and SBS n co fucking them by finding a key opening.
But yea like you said info was the big issue. Rather than Ousen, I'm more curious to see how the HSU will grow from this. Them being sealed off by falling for Boku's trap was the catalyst for all this after all.
Fair, but somewhere we all know that even though lack of information played a crucial factor, Ousen army or Ousen itself stood no chance against Seika..
During Coalition, Qin Generals knew very little about their opponents, but they managed quite well even though numbers were not in their favour.
A Qin 6, or GG of heavens is at that level where excuses like that don't really cover it.
Ouki only wanted to retreat when he got aware of Riboku forces, because he was aware it was a trap. It happened because of miscalculation of horse speed, which goes to show how wide his level of thinking was.
Ousen couldn't grasp Riboku plan, which is why he lost this battle. Had he grasped I'm sure he'd have tried interfering and change the outcome. He was completely outsmarted by Riboku on strategy front and his Generals/Army by Seika.
Ik you didn't talk about Ouki thing, just summarising my views.
During Coalition, Qin Generals knew very little about their opponents, but they managed quite well even though numbers were not in their favour.
A Qin 6, or GG of heavens is at that level where excuses like that don't really cover it.
Ouki only wanted to retreat when he got aware of Riboku forces, because he was aware it was a trap. It happened because of miscalculation of horse speed, which goes to show how wide his level of thinking was.
Ousen couldn't grasp Riboku plan, which is why he lost this battle. Had he grasped I'm sure he'd have tried interfering and change the outcome. He was completely outsmarted by Riboku on strategy front and his Generals/Army by Seika.
Ik you didn't talk about Ouki thing, just summarising my views.
That’s what I said when we first got that chapter lmfao. Ousen knew enough about Shibashou that he should’ve been shitting his pants when Akou and Sou Ou arrived. By that point, Ousen knew:
1. That Shibashou was an 8 foot tall mongoloid
2. That Shibashou was a Three Great Heaven, equivalent in rank to the likes of Riboku and Houken
3. That Riboku had orchestrated this exact scenario, because he was confident that Shibashou would defeat Ousen.
That’s all Ousen needed to know to know Akou and Sou’Ou were fucked lol. Like I said I guess he really needed to bet on them but…if I was Ousen I would’ve called the retreat before that point. Akou and Sou’Ou already knew Ousen was checkmated by that point lol.
1. That Shibashou was an 8 foot tall mongoloid
2. That Shibashou was a Three Great Heaven, equivalent in rank to the likes of Riboku and Houken
3. That Riboku had orchestrated this exact scenario, because he was confident that Shibashou would defeat Ousen.
That’s all Ousen needed to know to know Akou and Sou’Ou were fucked lol. Like I said I guess he really needed to bet on them but…if I was Ousen I would’ve called the retreat before that point. Akou and Sou’Ou already knew Ousen was checkmated by that point lol.
Yup this is the only thing I hold against Ousen. Homie just ain't want to accept a L, until he was forced to. The moment Shiryou got killed he should've hit the retreat button. Bro just had wayyy too much faith and ego.
So the issue with Ousen ain't the fact he lost, it's the fact he ain't call the damn retreat way sooner.
So the issue with Ousen ain't the fact he lost, it's the fact he ain't call the damn retreat way sooner.
Why are you so hardpressed by this you donkey, you could've engaged in meaningful argument at one point or another. Lmao
Yes weekly reading was shitty, yes I read every single chapter with agenda brain, and I only read spoilers and raws
Upon rereading the arc properly without obsessing over dumb shit like powerscaling, the drama was surprisingly complex and worthwhile
From a tactical standpoint it's not that good, besides that great work. Ousen's villain arc just started, great things in store for the future.
Also didn't you cry and complain about leaving this place because someone compared Bananji to Earl Shi
Now's your perfect chance
Yes weekly reading was shitty, yes I read every single chapter with agenda brain, and I only read spoilers and raws
Upon rereading the arc properly without obsessing over dumb shit like powerscaling, the drama was surprisingly complex and worthwhile
From a tactical standpoint it's not that good, besides that great work. Ousen's villain arc just started, great things in store for the future.
Also didn't you cry and complain about leaving this place because someone compared Bananji to Earl Shi
Now's your perfect chance
