Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Additionally, what do these skits suggest about race relations in society and the progress we're making overall?

It shows that we have made progress to fight racism since this is not acceptable today. :)

Also lets see :

- Going against the Constitution.
- Giving amnesty to far-right criminals (and some random vandals) to stay in power.
- Making pacts with literal past terrorists to stay in power.
- Making anti-socialist concessions like allowing the richest region to keep all its taxes for itself to stay in power.
- Gift them the railway system as well, while you're at it, that'll keep you in power.
- Of course, they mentioned nothing of the above when they ran for the presidency. Of course they have also been lying non-stop about their intentions until the last moment while steadily going on with it.
- Now the president's wife is on trial because of how being his wife made some really big corporations gift her very expensive pieces of software and contacts that helped build a very big business that she would have never had without his influence (I believe this would translate to English as "influence peddling").
- Of course, every leftist media is framing this as a "right-side witch hunt", because how dare we put the president on trial for anything, even with the proof being public.
- We also have the past vice-president on record talking about how the president offered to introduce him to some judges so he could avoid a little bit of trouble he found himself in.
- Creating laws "for the women" that are clearly anti-men and yet they actually served to put condemned rapists easier back on the streets because of loopholes they introduced.
- Creating services "to protect women" that are now proven bullshit that did nothing but serve to enrich themselves.
- I won't get started on the criminal rates shooting up from completely unrestricted immigration.

I will need reliable sources for all of that. I'm not a Spain specialist, so I won't believe you until there are evidences. Also, a lot of things here are "They did that, but I did not see the impact or the reasons, so they obviously just did that to stay in power"... yeah.. I won't believe this kind of rethoric.

is defending the dictator Maduro from Venezuela and accusing dissidents of being "like Trump supporters"

THose guys where close to his ideology, so yes, it logical. They were definitely not leftists.

I think you are confusing defending the elections and defending Maduro. The left do not necessarily defend Maduro.

I bet "Venezuela isn't real communism"?

Its not even Communist, its corrupted from all side. Maduro is trying to implement some leftist things but it seems that even he is corrupted. There are not saint in this arena.

They just rigged an election in the most obvious way to stay in power

How do you know that ? Do you have proof coming from an international investigation ?

I'm not saying its wrong. But what are the UNDENIABLE evidences ?

You were clearly biased by reading it's a leftists government, because "left is good".

I did not say "left is good" I implied that the left was always on the left of the right side and ASIDE from obvious authoritarian gov on the left... the left will always be better than the right on every subjects.

I don't see how targetting leftists will make your somehow someone with more progressist values mate"

And it still stand. If you are on the right side.. its really not targetting leftist will not be the bright move you think it is. Leftist on the other hand will be much more legitimate to do that.

But I know how to recognize a leftist when I see one. And I didn't see any here.

Again. Like Van, you are making the mistake than because I'm telling you that there are two clear side, you think that I'm telling you that there is no nuance.

This is not the case. Let me show you what I told to Van:

We consider that sometimes, the world IS black and white, not always, but a LOT of time. And that in those case, accepting to make compromises with toxic ideologies is not possible.

Liberals made you believe that rationnality was synonymous of being able to see the nuances in politics. That the right thing to do was to be able to pick and choose what was right and wrong in all sides of the political spectrum.

Problem : This ideology the result of a sophism : the middle-ground fallacy. The belief that the truth lies somewhere in between opposing propositions.

In reality, where you uses that ideology, you put yourself to the right side, simply because taking idea from the right and from the left will ALWAYS benefit the right side.

This is how you might think the political spectrum is:

With two side and a "rationnal" middle ground. But in reality, this is how the political spectrum really is:

Two sides, black and white, bright and dark, blue and red, with NUANCES but two sides that are NOT reconcilable !

Politics exist because of the opposition of values. If we start to make the opposition dissapear, we depoliticize the conflict and we lose the reason why there is a conflict in the first place without resolving the issues behind the conflict.

In other words, we sweep the dust under the carpet.

Centrism and depolitization only helps the status co.

As you can see, two side, a dark and a bright one. BUT with nuance inside of them. And INSIDE those nuance (if you were to zoom in really close) you would find little cluster of color of the other side. Because even in the left, there are rightist biases and in the Right, there are progressive ideas.

My vision of politic.. in reality, in far for complex than you think. Its simply, clearly structured.

And for saying that. Its obvious that you are a [FIND YOUR LABEL HERE] and I'm not proud of you.

 

[Mathias]

It shows that we have made progress to fight racism since this is not acceptable today. :)

Also lets see :



I will need reliable sources for all of that. I'm not a Spain specialist, so I won't believe you until there are evidences. Also, a lot of things here are "They did that, but I did not see the impact or the reasons, so they obviously just did that to stay in power"... yeah.. I won't believe this kind of rethoric.



THose guys where close to his ideology, so yes, it logical. They were definitely not leftists.

I think you are confusing defending the elections and defending Maduro. The left do not necessarily defend Maduro.


Its not even Communist, its corrupted from all side. Maduro is trying to implement some leftist things but it seems that even he is corrupted. There are not saint in this arena.



How do you know that ? Do you have proof coming from an international investigation ?

I'm not saying its wrong. But what are the UNDENIABLE evidences ?



I did not say "left is good" I implied that the left was always on the left of the right side and ASIDE from obvious authoritarian gov on the left... the left will always be better than the right on every subjects.



And it still stand. If you are on the right side.. its really not targetting leftist will not be the bright move you think it is. Leftist on the other hand will be much more legitimate to do that.

But I know how to recognize a leftist when I see one. And I didn't see any here.

Again. Like Van, you are making the mistake than because I'm telling you that there are two clear side, you think that I'm telling you that there is no nuance.

This is not the case. Let me show you what I told to Van:



As you can see, two side, a dark and a bright one. BUT with nuance inside of them. And INSIDE those nuance (if you were to zoom in really close) you would find little cluster of color of the other side. Because even in the left, there are rightist biases and in the Right, there are progressive ideas.

My vision of politic.. in reality, in far for complex than you think. Its simply, clearly structured.






And for saying that. Its obvious that you are a [FIND YOUR LABEL HERE] and I'm not proud of you.

 

[Logiko]

I never left

 

[Mathias]

what have I been telling you this far?? lol

It escalated so fast, I barely had the time to follow through

I never left

You were silenced

 

[Logiko]

You were silenced

That's what the Government wants to make you believe..

But...

 

[AL sama]

Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈænti(ˌ)fə/) is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It consists of a highly decentralized array of autonomous groups that use nonviolent direct action, incivility, or violence to achieve their aims.[1][2] Antifa political activism includes non-violent methods such as poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, speeches, protest marches, and community organizing.[3][4][5] Some who identify as antifa also use tactics involving digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage. Members of antifa aim to combat far-right extremists, including neo-Nazis and white supremacists.[6]

from wiki

yeah a pretty peaceful and non violent group I'd say

 

[Logiko]

from wiki

yeah a pretty peaceful and non violent group I'd say

Antifascist are not always peacefull lol

There are not supposed to be. They are the front line of defense against fascists.

You might not know that, but Antifa actually have groups in a lot of important places of the western world where fascists are growing in power. And what they do is called "de la veille et de la dissuasion" in French. In English you would translate that by watch and deterrence.

They work mostly in the shadow and they are the ones who alerts on the creation of far rights groups. And when those groups are making actions (like taking the streets and beating up muslim or black people) Antifascist will go on the front line in the street to face them, sometimes with violence to make them retriet.

Without antifascists, Trump would not be our first sources of concern.

 

[AL sama]

 

[Logiko]

A good and moral behavior is not always synonym of a peacefull behavior.

When there are oppressions, when some people are threatenning others, when others are being dangerous... A peacefull behavior is not necessarily the solution.

Sometimes.. Fighting is the solution.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

Trump survived an assassination attempt in an extremely unlikely way, that looked almost like a divine intervention, just to lose to a mid politician lol

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

It is a bit insane how in 21st century the right in USA can't find someone better than Trump. Like really?

What happened to the likes of Romney and McCain?

USA politics used to look like this:

Democrats and Republicans = Work for their constituents, and look after their own business interests.

Now it's this:

Democrats = Sell out to rich people and push horrible old candidates in high positions of power, but also give a lot of the base what they want, and have a lot of people in the party who still care about the country. Was trying to push ANOTHER FAILED OLD PERSON into office, but, finally, the old person in question, Biden, just collapsed fully (like Trump is on the other side), and they had to replace him. Kamala has then saved them from themselves by... not being a crazy ass old white man half the country hates, like Biden and Trump. Literally. Harris just has to NOT BE THOSE TWO and it does so much for so many people's enthusiasm levels.

Republicans = Almost totally sold out to rich people on every level. Anyone who actually respects the Constitution, or Christ, are treated like crap, because people are willing to say whatever it takes to get money and power. Still some good people, but they have to work behind the scenes because if they speak up crazy people will go after them. Like, I always knew the right in the US was willing to sell out Jesus for policy and money, but, this is just ridiculous. These people have no religion, they are literally selling the Bible to try to fundraise for politics. My word.


TLDR: Both parties used to be pretty similar, now both are a mess, but the Republicans are way worse because they lie about everything for the sake of money and power, and the Democrats got lucky Biden got Covid and Trump survived the attempt. The Democrats still suck, and I don't trust them for this, but, MAN, some of the crap I've heard from Republicans in the last few months has actually blown me away. Brainwashing is real, and it's fucking scary. And I don't mean hypno beams or some shit, I just mean the media turning people mad with lies and propaganda. It's so hard for people to figure out what to trust.

 

[Owl Ki]

Trump survived an assassination attempt in an extremely unlikely way, that looked almost like a divine intervention, just to lose to a mid politician lol

In short, God only wanted Trump to live that day so his death didn't potentially send a nuclear armed nation into civil war.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

In short, God only wanted Trump to live so his death didn't potentially send a nuclear armed nation into civil war.

Yes. Only Trump and his cultists think otherwise.

 

[Zenos7]

from wiki

yeah a pretty peaceful and non violent group I'd say

the antifas who use violence and/or want to censor their political opponents are fascists themselves. it is what it is.

it always depends on the particular antifa group though.

 

[Logiko]

the antifas who use violence and/or want to censor their political opponents are fascists themselves. it is what it is.

- First, that's not what fascism is.
- Second, censoring/using violence against harmfull ideologies and individuals who have extrem harmfull and oppressive behavior - if said individual are left unchecked - is perfectly legitimate.

To understand why, here are ressources on the nature of Fascism from the Leftist Library :

- [VIDEO] - What is fascism ?
- [RESSOURCE] - A practical guide for understanding and identifying "Ur Fascism" - Umberto Eco's speech - IMPORTANT

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

the antifas who use violence and/or want to censor their political opponents are fascists themselves. it is what it is.

it always depends on the particular antifa group though.

I used to know this guy who was a neonazi and then became antifa. Very weird energy. You know some people just want to wreck shit, the actual ideology is of secondary importance. There's also neonazis who converted to Islam to become terrorists, same thing.

 

[Zenos7]

I used to know this guy who was a neonazi and then became antifa. Very weird energy. You know some people just want to wreck shit, the actual ideology is of secondary importance. There's also neonazis who converted to Islam to become terrorists, same thing.

lmao. football hooligans are like that too.

 

[Logiko]

I used to know this guy who was a neonazi and then became antifa.

Yeah. I'm sorry but a sketchy testimony will not be the proof of a demonstration against antifascism. While yes, some people might seek violence. AntiFa are organized with a clear purpose.

Stopping Fascism and far right ideologies.

They mostly act in reaction. For example, the violences in the UK.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Yeah. I'm sorry but a sketchy testimony will not be the proof of a demonstration against antifascism. While yes, some people might seek violence. AntiFa are organized with a clear purpose.

Stopping Fascism and far right ideologies.

They mostly act in reaction. For example, the violences in the UK.

My point is that to a whole lot of people with too much aggressive energy, the ideology at hand is secondary or even tertiary, as long as joining said group allows them to wreck shit.

lmao. football hooligans are like that too.

Remember ''Hooligans gegen Salafisten''?

 

[Zenos7]

Remember ''Hooligans gegen Salafisten''?

nah, i guess i missed that one