Yeah but in the Doflamingo and Cracker fight, Luffy didn't progress all that much. It was the Katakuri fight that pushed him to the extreme and allowed him to unlock FS. So it didn't take him three extreme fights to reach that level, just one. And then the second time was because of the exploding collars. Luffy trained to get the basic grasp of how to do it, but couldn't fully bring it out until the collars were about to explode.
Questions & Mysteries Why is Zoro much more relevant than Luffy to the fandom?
- Thread starter ShishioIsBack
- Start date
Or dumbass Zoro haters state their outlandish opinions as fact and when Zoro fans correct them with actual arguments they loose their shit..Its a little bit of both.
Btw Trump is pretty damn relevant in the world an not just cuz of the shit he says, such a weird ass example to give. You are saying Trump would not be ridiculously relevant if he didn't say all that shit on social media? The president of Murica? Or you saying Zoro genuinely is more relevant than Luffy and you agree with me?
You guys don't think through before typing do you?
Btw Trump is pretty damn relevant in the world an not just cuz of the shit he says, such a weird ass example to give. You are saying Trump would not be ridiculously relevant if he didn't say all that shit on social media? The president of Murica? Or you saying Zoro genuinely is more relevant than Luffy and you agree with me?
You guys don't think through before typing do you?
Or dumbass Zoro haters state their outlandish opinions as fact and when Zoro fans correct them with actual arguments they loose their shit..Its a little bit of both.
Btw Trump is pretty damn relevant in the world an not just cuz of the shit he says, such a weird ass example to give. You are saying Trump would not be ridiculously relevant if he didn't say all that shit on social media? The president of Murica? Or you saying Zoro genuinely is more relevant than Luffy and you agree with me?
You guys don't think through before typing do you?
Btw Trump is pretty damn relevant in the world an not just cuz of the shit he says, such a weird ass example to give. You are saying Trump would not be ridiculously relevant if he didn't say all that shit on social media? The president of Murica? Or you saying Zoro genuinely is more relevant than Luffy and you agree with me?
You guys don't think through before typing do you?
Keyword "more". All previous presidents were not as relevant as Trump. And being more relevant isn't always a good thing. The juvenile thought process to even think bad publicity doesn't exist. Sure Zoro is more relevant than Luffy in the idiotic fans department. The irony when your reading comprehension is donkey.
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F
Because he's a badass character type.
Luffy is a typical shonen boring protagonist.
Actually his actions/decisions never surprised me as a reader.
This manga is ongoing for 23 years now and Luffy is still the same idiot he always was.
It was funny till Sabaody.
Yes, I literally believed that the Sabaody incident will help Luffy grow as well as Marineford.
Poor me.
YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKES.
Luffy is a typical shonen boring protagonist.
Actually his actions/decisions never surprised me as a reader.
This manga is ongoing for 23 years now and Luffy is still the same idiot he always was.
It was funny till Sabaody.
Yes, I literally believed that the Sabaody incident will help Luffy grow as well as Marineford.
Poor me.
YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKES.
Exactly. Zoro Stronker than Luffy
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When you accept that luffy had to blackmail Zoro to join because he NEEDED him. Zoro the only SH who was forced to join, all other SH had a say in their joining. The fact luffy went to the extent of blackmailing zoro speaks volumes
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When you accept that luffy had to blackmail Zoro to join because he NEEDED him. Zoro the only SH who was forced to join, all other SH had a say in their joining. The fact luffy went to the extent of blackmailing zoro speaks volumes
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Well, I think it because Zoro is the most traditional character among the strawhats.
If you think about it, Zoro is a solid-built sword weilding samurai-like character that only cares about getting stronger.
You see these types of characters everywhere (and typically main characters), and so people respond to something they are familiar with.
On the other hand, Luffy is very different, outlier type of main character. He's rarely serious, unpredictable personality and he has a really weird fighting style. I think that makes him unique in one sense, but a lot of people do not relate to his eccentricity.
And you look at many people here, who like to powerscale all the charcters, create fictional categories like "YC1, YC2,YC3, Yonko level", debate fights between characters with zero feats, it makes sense why Zoro fits into this atmosphere. Whereas, overall in terms of story and less about fighting, Luffy is probably more popular.
If you think about it, Zoro is a solid-built sword weilding samurai-like character that only cares about getting stronger.
You see these types of characters everywhere (and typically main characters), and so people respond to something they are familiar with.
On the other hand, Luffy is very different, outlier type of main character. He's rarely serious, unpredictable personality and he has a really weird fighting style. I think that makes him unique in one sense, but a lot of people do not relate to his eccentricity.
And you look at many people here, who like to powerscale all the charcters, create fictional categories like "YC1, YC2,YC3, Yonko level", debate fights between characters with zero feats, it makes sense why Zoro fits into this atmosphere. Whereas, overall in terms of story and less about fighting, Luffy is probably more popular.
If I recall well his eye scar is result of his extreme training under Mihawk.
Considering the type of character he is I think the author is just saving his cards.
( There was no other to train with cuz monkeys defeated before the training started so Mihawk was the only one).
With that in mind Oda can place him in higher echelons if he wants tbh and I don't think ppl would have much room to complain.
(Well the ones complaining would be the ones who place Mihawk low to justify Zoro not having a high lvl).
Considering the type of character he is I think the author is just saving his cards.
( There was no other to train with cuz monkeys defeated before the training started so Mihawk was the only one).
With that in mind Oda can place him in higher echelons if he wants tbh and I don't think ppl would have much room to complain.
(Well the ones complaining would be the ones who place Mihawk low to justify Zoro not having a high lvl).
You need evidence to prove anything. Only a religious cultist arguing earth is flat would say "you don't need evidence"
Bad publicity is tricky to quantify because if Zoros name would be constantly mentioned, both positively and negatively, people who are not aware of One Piece would wonder who this guy is and would possibly look him up, and that could result in Zoro getting more fans. So its bad publicity resulting in good publicity.
Zoro is more relevant to anti Zoro crowd then he is to Zoro crowd so are you saying anti Zoro crowd is idiotic? That makes sense sure.
Bad publicity is tricky to quantify because if Zoros name would be constantly mentioned, both positively and negatively, people who are not aware of One Piece would wonder who this guy is and would possibly look him up, and that could result in Zoro getting more fans. So its bad publicity resulting in good publicity.
Zoro is more relevant to anti Zoro crowd then he is to Zoro crowd so are you saying anti Zoro crowd is idiotic? That makes sense sure.
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Luffy went through doffy too.
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And yet you don’t see the anti zoro crowd mention him as often and as persistently as the zoro crowd, which spares no respite or rest for the rest of the forums before going: but muuuuh shishi sonson! Zoro this, zoro that!
Even in unrelated topics. You man go and count how many zoro threads popped up or have been hijacked by his cultists. There is a reason why the rest of the forums or as you call it the “anti zoro crowd” which is more like the anti zoro fan crowd react so aggressively. It’s because his fanbase is extremely overbearing.
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So you want a Mary Sue character?
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Killua> gon thi killua is as much of an mc as gon do idk
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I wonder whos more irreplaceable, the ships cook which has been shown to be super valuable when he wasn’t there and the crew almost died from starvation and food poisoning, the navigator which is a key part to any ship, the ships doctor or another meathead fighter which the captain of the ship already fills the role of.
Luffy went through doffy too.
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And yet you don’t see the anti zoro crowd mention him as often and as persistently as the zoro crowd, which spares no respite or rest for the rest of the forums before going: but muuuuh shishi sonson! Zoro this, zoro that!
Even in unrelated topics. You man go and count how many zoro threads popped up or have been hijacked by his cultists. There is a reason why the rest of the forums or as you call it the “anti zoro crowd” which is more like the anti zoro fan crowd react so aggressively. It’s because his fanbase is extremely overbearing.
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So you want a Mary Sue character?
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Killua> gon thi killua is as much of an mc as gon do idk
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I wonder whos more irreplaceable, the ships cook which has been shown to be super valuable when he wasn’t there and the crew almost died from starvation and food poisoning, the navigator which is a key part to any ship, the ships doctor or another meathead fighter which the captain of the ship already fills the role of.
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See that's problem and generally I would agree with you scaling should be used where feats are not available though what exactly is scaling in One Piece.
Judging by the state of One Piece fan base, can any body reach a consensus on how to scale, and to whom we can scale who?
The role that preconceived notions play when it comes to One Piece fan base almost makes it impossible for anyone to respectfully scale any character.
Take Luffy and Zoro for example, we used ridiculous argument of "Captain Has to be stronger than Vice Captain" which, has it really been established in manga? Is that a written rule and if it is then how come both Luffy and Zoro wondering who is stronger when they fought. You would think neither Luffy nor Zoro subscribe to the idea that captain has to be stronger so where exactly did that change? Has Oda given us explicit statement contradicted that notion, has Luffy and Zoro's attitude towards what is and isn't required to be captain and Vice Captain?
In the midst of all this confusion where at one point scaling was created, where Luffy and Zoro fought equally and Oda hasn't gone out of his way to contradict that scaling rather its up in the air, what can we use? If primary canon can not be used, we subscribe to secondary canon such as databooks, when 3 data books say Luffy and Zoro are equal, do you think its reasonable to assume Oda that can be used to scale Luffy to Zoro?
Or you think Oda disagrees with that scaling, and he disagrees with secondary material that he himself as promoted as a source of information? is that really a good financial decision or good publicity in general for secondary canon that is there to help readers with confusion regarding events of manga they have?
I mean you can say data books has stated things such as Sabo being dead, which have been proven wrong but what do you expect? Do you expect Oda to know 10 years early that he will bring Sabo back and if he did do you think he is willing to spoil people when it comes to such a massive surprise 10 years early? I mean the job of a data book is to just reaffirm what is already available in manga, they are not reinventing the wheel, like they stated Mihawk and Vista fought in MF but Vista knew Mihawk is stronger which why won't he, the whole world knows Mihawk is stronger hence they call him strongest?
So when Data book is explicitly telling us Luffy and Zoro are equal and Luffy has plethora of feats but Zoro doesn't, why aren't we using established scaling there?
It gets even worse when we have CONCRETE scaling in One Piece where author has introduced people as "World's Strongest" such as Mihawk the WSS yet there are some people who disagree with Mihawk being stronger than Shanks.
And there reasoning is Yonko > Mihawk, like how does that work? What exactly does Yonko title represent that allows you to ignore the concrete scaling?
Idk if every fandom does that, I have honestly not debated any other fiction the way I have One Piece, this is the nerdiest I have ever gone though I have seen comic vine where they mostly use feats and terms such as mountain level, mega tons, planet level, Mach 100 etc and that seems a lot more concrete than One Piece fans using fluid hype and confusing it as scaling while ignoring the actual scaling.
I would be more than happy to use scaling if One Piece fandom unanimously respected established scaling.
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But a lot more Zoro threads are from anti Zoro crowd though. Who made biggest deal about Zoro getting stabbed? Or Zoro getting slashed by Apoo?
Idk man, I feel like Zoro fan base just has a bad name, they don't seem that bad. The most "Questioning humanity" things that I have ever heard are from either a)Shanks fans b)Sanji fans c)Anti Zoro crowd
@Jo_Ndule said "Katakuri > End of story Zoro" a few days ago, like how come one with a working brain make a statement like that?
Judging by the state of One Piece fan base, can any body reach a consensus on how to scale, and to whom we can scale who?
The role that preconceived notions play when it comes to One Piece fan base almost makes it impossible for anyone to respectfully scale any character.
Take Luffy and Zoro for example, we used ridiculous argument of "Captain Has to be stronger than Vice Captain" which, has it really been established in manga? Is that a written rule and if it is then how come both Luffy and Zoro wondering who is stronger when they fought. You would think neither Luffy nor Zoro subscribe to the idea that captain has to be stronger so where exactly did that change? Has Oda given us explicit statement contradicted that notion, has Luffy and Zoro's attitude towards what is and isn't required to be captain and Vice Captain?
In the midst of all this confusion where at one point scaling was created, where Luffy and Zoro fought equally and Oda hasn't gone out of his way to contradict that scaling rather its up in the air, what can we use? If primary canon can not be used, we subscribe to secondary canon such as databooks, when 3 data books say Luffy and Zoro are equal, do you think its reasonable to assume Oda that can be used to scale Luffy to Zoro?
Or you think Oda disagrees with that scaling, and he disagrees with secondary material that he himself as promoted as a source of information? is that really a good financial decision or good publicity in general for secondary canon that is there to help readers with confusion regarding events of manga they have?
I mean you can say data books has stated things such as Sabo being dead, which have been proven wrong but what do you expect? Do you expect Oda to know 10 years early that he will bring Sabo back and if he did do you think he is willing to spoil people when it comes to such a massive surprise 10 years early? I mean the job of a data book is to just reaffirm what is already available in manga, they are not reinventing the wheel, like they stated Mihawk and Vista fought in MF but Vista knew Mihawk is stronger which why won't he, the whole world knows Mihawk is stronger hence they call him strongest?
So when Data book is explicitly telling us Luffy and Zoro are equal and Luffy has plethora of feats but Zoro doesn't, why aren't we using established scaling there?
It gets even worse when we have CONCRETE scaling in One Piece where author has introduced people as "World's Strongest" such as Mihawk the WSS yet there are some people who disagree with Mihawk being stronger than Shanks.
And there reasoning is Yonko > Mihawk, like how does that work? What exactly does Yonko title represent that allows you to ignore the concrete scaling?
Idk if every fandom does that, I have honestly not debated any other fiction the way I have One Piece, this is the nerdiest I have ever gone though I have seen comic vine where they mostly use feats and terms such as mountain level, mega tons, planet level, Mach 100 etc and that seems a lot more concrete than One Piece fans using fluid hype and confusing it as scaling while ignoring the actual scaling.
I would be more than happy to use scaling if One Piece fandom unanimously respected established scaling.
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But a lot more Zoro threads are from anti Zoro crowd though. Who made biggest deal about Zoro getting stabbed? Or Zoro getting slashed by Apoo?
Idk man, I feel like Zoro fan base just has a bad name, they don't seem that bad. The most "Questioning humanity" things that I have ever heard are from either a)Shanks fans b)Sanji fans c)Anti Zoro crowd
@Jo_Ndule said "Katakuri > End of story Zoro" a few days ago, like how come one with a working brain make a statement like that?
Well Mihawk seems the kinda guy who can adjust to opponents level, like he adjusted to Zoro's level because logically Mihawk would send Zoro flying even with butter knife if we look at Wano butter knife Zoro, and in MF he adjusted to Vista's level.
I am sure Mihawk can restrain himself enough to have sparring competitions with Zoro to improve him but idk.
Zoro usually gets stronger through lifting weights and getting new swords.
Big jump from Water 7 to EL and no extreme battle
Big jump from EL to TB and no extreme battle but new ridiculously good sword.
Though Idk Zoro currently only seems to have improved in Attack power and CoA. But if he can compete with YC1 in speed, durability etc, wouldn't it mean he always has been capable of since post TS?
I am sure Mihawk can restrain himself enough to have sparring competitions with Zoro to improve him but idk.
Zoro usually gets stronger through lifting weights and getting new swords.
Big jump from Water 7 to EL and no extreme battle
Big jump from EL to TB and no extreme battle but new ridiculously good sword.
Though Idk Zoro currently only seems to have improved in Attack power and CoA. But if he can compete with YC1 in speed, durability etc, wouldn't it mean he always has been capable of since post TS?
Those powerups pre skip weren’t haki powerups, I want to follow you guys on your claim of him being this strong since post skip but I don’t see anything. Like that.
Yes mihawk can adjust but then as a teacher of his how would they have this so called extreme battle? For things to be extreme he would have to be in actual life or death battles but then it contradicts with you saying mihawk was adjusting his power level to match zorosz
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He did it with vista but it wasn’t an extreme diff life or death battle adjustment of powerlevel is what I mean.
Yes mihawk can adjust but then as a teacher of his how would they have this so called extreme battle? For things to be extreme he would have to be in actual life or death battles but then it contradicts with you saying mihawk was adjusting his power level to match zorosz
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He did it with vista but it wasn’t an extreme diff life or death battle adjustment of powerlevel is what I mean.