It only makes sense if you for some reason assumed I said or believe economic disparity was the only reason people voted.
It is 100% objective that the #1 driving force behind votes is the economy.
Well you kinda said that and some other comments. And then belittled the racism and sexism, insinuating that we shouldn't talk about it maybe ?

But okay, your opinion is clearer. That's why we're talking.


You also insinuate that I support Trump economics.
I have no idea if you support Trump economics. Where is my insinuation ?

I thought you agreed that trickled down economics was a scam.

Majority of my posts are also about history so your comment about me only wanting to discuss economy as some sort of "gotcha!" was also random and strange.
Nevertheless you love economics don't you ? We always see you dropping definitions of economical schools of thoughts and all.

I was just being sympathetic like "we know you dude".
 
The latter necessitates the former sadly.
Not necesarilly, for example with unions, it's their choice if they choose to fight them or to listen to the workers,

But even if they fight unions, fighting does not mean harming someone and neither is it authoritarian, for example a slave overthrowing their master is not authoritarian, a wife beating her abusive husband is not authoritarian, it is violent, more or less, depending on how much the opressor wants to opress, but it doesn't mean harming the opressing or imposing something on them, it just means stopping the opressor from imposing their will on the opressed an,ymore
 

Uncle Van

Bullets don't hurt. But Taxes do.
Listen, that’s just my perspective. I really do see a lot more charitably from you toward the anti-left users.
How so? Bob ranted at me a few times and got himself perma banned. Herrera called me a woke apologist and requested a deletion after I banned him. Solis is just an instigator. Logiko is the only supposed leftist and we all know his deal. Everyone else is neutral or isn't active.

Rav and Nameless are the only other clear cut aggressive right wingers I know of that I can have calm discussions with. Zemmi is right wing and she's very calm and respectful.

I can have talks with right wingers about how people are so reactionary about Trump. I can have talks with you about how disastrous Trump's run can be.
 
The money the billionaire's stolen from the brainwashed workers you mean?
There's a really funny video of Amazon's stance on workers unions, and they say,

"We are not against unions, but we are not exactly neutral either"

And someone in the comments said

"So you are pro union, great!"

Lol =],

I don't think workers are brainwashed, maybe some have the wrong information, I may be mistaken and I'm not an expert, but leftist political theory has only pretty recently started to have more educational resources shared about it hasn't it?,
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And a lot of people just don't know, haven't heard about it, or didn't see an explanation presented,
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Brainwashed victims, by definition, do not work for their own benefit but actively against it. Your suggestions sound like ''slavery ends when all slaves run away''. Their psychological conditioning won't let them.
But, even though some slaves said they preffered serving the owners, most fought for freedom, didn't they?,
 
But, even though some slaves said they preffered serving the owners, most fought for freedom, didn't they?
Many Ancient societies were reliant on slave economy. Today's economy is not all that different. Who made your phone?
If your statement were true, there would be no slaves because they'd have all left their minimally paid 'jobs'. But do you see this happening?

There's a really funny video of Amazon's stance on workers unions, and they say,

"We are not against unions, but we are not exactly neutral either"

And someone in the comments said

"So you are pro union, great!"
Classic manipulation 🤡
 
Many Ancient societies were reliant on slave economy. Today's economy is not all that different. Who made your phone?
If your statement were true, there would be no slaves because they'd have all left their minimally paid 'jobs'. But do you see this happening?


Classic manipulation 🤡
Today's global economy, maybe so, when looked at slave master relations, but locally it changed a lot, and it only needs to change locally in those regions too, for slavery to have been abolished, except for the idea of the wage relations being slavery, which is something else to talk about, I'm just reffering to general slavery,

I think we should give it a try, many tries first to organise and work together, before we say it hasn't worked or doesn't work,
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It isn't going to be easy, but I think and I hope that it will happen, I wouldn't say it's inevitable that people organise, but I hope they will and I think they will,
 

Uncle Van

Bullets don't hurt. But Taxes do.
Like alrighty the democratic party is left of the republican party, but I think you can group leftists in two groups, the democratic party, and every other type of leftist, and the two groups have a lot of big differences,
Democrats are center-right. Their leftism is in word alone, not actions. Leftist dont have a party to vote for, which is one of the reasons USA has become more right wing as time passed. Especislly since the 70s.

Well you kinda said that and some other comments. And then belittled the racism and sexism, insinuating that we shouldn't talk about it maybe ?

But okay, your opinion is clearer. That's why we're talking.




I have no idea if you support Trump economics. Where is my insinuation ?

I thought you agreed that trickled down economics was a scam.



Nevertheless you love economics don't you ? We always see you dropping definitions of economical schools of thoughts and all.

I was just being sympathetic like "we know you dude".
Then we have big misunderstandings on both sides. I said the main reason was economics, and elaborated that when people lose money they will flip out and blame the guy in charge.

When you mention the social problems, it came in opposition to what I said in my first line. Then you said "you know me" along with the sarcasm with the trinkle down stuff. The whole post came off as "Lol this economics obsessed dude thinks economics are the only reason people vote."
 
Unfortunately my dude, I've met enough dole dossers who claim mental illness but spend all day on their hobbies; have a fulfilled social life, and are able to function normally UNTIL they have to work and suddenly they're too ill. That's not a person who is disabled - it's a leech.
Again, you prove the point I keep making about you people here. Amazingly.

I have limits to what I'd like to support with my tax payer money. Why is my labour and thus liberty less important than other people's?
You are in a society, in society, we help people in need, that's called equality. If you are not willing to do that, go outside of the society.

Create yourself a nice little house in the desert and have fun living on your own. The moment you put conditions to help when people are in dire need, you are part of the problem and not the solution.


Nah bro, think it's just racism. :seriously:
It is. Defacto it is. But not only, it's also ableism, sexism, anti LGBTQI + etc.

It's identitary politic. It's when one's vote is conditionned by ythe fear to be replaced by people they consider not worthy to benefit from their help.


I mean the democrats didn't really looked like they tried to go after these points but about " communities
Hence why we should not be voting for liberals but leftists. I agree, democrates completely forgot those point. But you are mentionning "communities", but in fact even in that domain, they are not making the job. It's pure facade.


which the people who can barely afford food or live paycheck to paycheck dont really give a damn about.....
Class struggles and anti-racism or feminism or the LGBTQI+ militantism are fight that need to be fought at the same time. NOT separated.

Simply because they are all linked with eachothers, especially concerning the impact of capitalism on all those problems.

This is the importance of intersactionnality that I'm talking about in The Leftist Library here:

- [VIDEO] - Understanding intersectionality - Kimberlé Crenshaw on TED Talk - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - What is intersectionality ?

- [VIDEO] - How capitalism creates oppression - A basic overview - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - No really, capitalism is destroying us and the climate... Wake the F up - IMPORTANT
- [ARTICLE AND STUDY] - How capitalism impacts and is killing science

- [VIDEO] - Feminism and anticapitalism are deeply linked - Or why Capitalist feminism (liberal feminism) can't work

- [VIDEO] - The struggle of being disabled under capitalism


but the migrants point it's a legit concern
It's not. Migration, even illegal is beneficial for the economy, it's documented.

The only reason why you can fear immigration is if you consider that we should not change our system to welcome migrants better in order for them to be less octracized by society. Which leads to poverty, which leads to violences and insecurity.

the LGBT/minorities have just been hella obnoxious
No.

The far right make the LGBTQI+ look obnoxious.

It's like something showing your a star, asking you to fix it instantly and suddenly, everything else vanish around it until your are only able to see that one point.

The problem is not the star. The problem is the person pushing you to focus your point of view and preventing you from seeing all the other stars.

LGBTQI+ simply want to live their lives in peace, be respected, be accepted and not to have the fear to get out of the closet. It's people who point at THEM for who they are and what right they should not have access to that creates the fallacious impression that LGBTQI+ are obnoxious.


How would Superman deal with Ukraine and Palestine? I wonder...
Superman is pro-status co. Meaning that he would not intervene to create war even in the case of a genocide.

Now, if Superman was to intervene - at least the superman I know - he would instantly become the FIRST treath of human kind since Superman would reason with anti-oppressive values.

BUT Starting from that, things are simple:


- Before starting, he would stay on constant alert for any bombing in order to stop them in time
- First, he would check for any remaining survivor under collapsed building.
- Second, he would bring all the potential wounded into the nearest hospitals
- Third, he would neutralize all the equipment of Israelian soldier in Gaza and would fly all of them back to Israel
- Fourth, he would fly all over the continent in order to fill multiple truck of necessary aid and food
- Fifth, he would deliver all of that quickly
- Then he would create massive underground holes, and would create basics emergency hospital rooms inside of them
- He would displace all the equipment and personnal into those "bunkers" and bring new personnal from outside.
- He would create temporary massive bunch of emergency housing all over the city for people to rest and eat.
- He would neutralize the weapons of Hamas and force them to stop fighting.
- He would make sure to put a few US soldier in Gaza to help supervize the transition and the civilians and prevent any kind of crimes.

I'm sure this can be done in less than a day. You can repeat those operations for all the current conflict on the planet. The idea is to reach a point where everyone is safe from armed conflict.

Of course, he would do the same for Ukraine, this time pushing all the soldier out of the country and neutralizing the weapons on both side.

At this point, it's safe to say that people there are ""safe"" and that Superman managed to organize a few people to make them aware of his following actions to help him a little. Now start the second part of his action (the one that will make leaders angry):

- FIRST, he would either neutralize ALL the nuclear ammunitions of the ENTIRE world and take all the nuclear component, or would take all those ammunition to space to destroy them all in a flash.
- Second, he would take Netanyahou and the other leaders Hamas/Israel that are charged with crime against humanity and take all those little people directly to the haye, making sure of course that those people are "safe" and "well surrounded".
- Third, he would neutralize ALL the IDF equipment and personnal in Lebanon and fly them back to Israel and force them all to retreat.
- Fourth he would scatter the entierity of Palestine for IDF soldiers and new settlers to fly them ALL back to israel.
- Then he would remove ALL possible IDF restriction and personnal on Gaza and its inhabitants.
- He would make sure that no ammunition launched by either Hamas, Israel or the Hezbolla hit anyone anywhere in the region.
- Then, he would search the entire Israelian institutions documentation and network in research for evidences about the colonization of Palestine, the genocide, the oppressions of Palestinian, lebanon etc.
- After that, it's time to make things public. He would make all the informations known to Israeli people and available without any restrictions
- From this point he would ask Israeli people to create new elections at three condition: for them to respect the right of minorities in Israel, for them to not go behind the wall toward Gaza, for the new government to push the ideas of peace with Palestinian.
- He would go in Gaza, install big screen all over the country and do the same for ALL Palestinians. The election of a city leader with the condition to make Peace with Israelian. He would also prevent anyone from crossing the walls with Israel (both side needs time to cool down from the anger).
- He woull requisition massive ammount of ressources and equipment from Israel forces and transfert them in Gaza for the reconstruction by Palestinians.
- He would create and open a safe road between Gaza and the occupied Palestine to help people flee Gaza if they want to.

After that it gets a little complicated so i'll let you on that. Imagine a LOT of small political actions. (you can't imagine just how happy people will already feel when all the nuclear weapons are neutralized).

Anyway... This was actually quite fun to imagine.



Like I said some days ago, people think they voted for a better economy but in reality they elected a billionaire whose only interest is to enrich himself and his butt buddies.
Indeed.

This is the second call Elon Musk sat in on. Why is he sitting in on these conversations?
Sadly, It's a but too late to ask that. I think you people are about to see the real reason why quite soon. I suggest you find a union or tell your friends to find and join one before that, just in case.

Uugh...hopefully is not another one of the "anyone who doesn't despise Trump 24/7 must love the guy" people...
No one is saying that here. No even me.


Ravager and Nameless don't direct it towards me.
Quite logical if you ask me. When someone points the fact that there are problematic, you come in and laugh at those people. (those people being me mostly lol). You are acting for their interest (even if they do not agree) so why would they attack you since you see no problems with what they say ?


Like alrighty the democratic party is left of the republican party, but I think you can group leftists in two groups, the democratic party, and every other type of leftist, and the two groups have a lot of big differences,
By nature democrats are liberals, by nature it places them on the right spectrum (the center right but still right), now it's a spectrum so some can be leftist and other completely conservatists. Overall, they are at the center right.

Now, I agree that we can divide leftist into twogroups. I would even go further and divide them into 3 groups:
- The soft social democrats (some democrates would go there)
- The radical social democrats (I'm on the left of this one)
- The revolutionnaries




Logiko is the only supposed leftist and we all know his deal
Not anymore. Now I'm simply the most radical one.

Actually I can safely say that there are 5 leftists in this thread.

And a lot of people just don't know, haven't heard about it, or didn't see an explanation presented,
The problem are not the worker, it's what pushes the worker not to rebel :

- The alienation of work
- The pressure of capitalism on all the aspect of the working class's life (from sunrise to the bed at night)
- Meritocracy that push people to self-justify their own exploitation


Democrats are center-right. Their leftism is in word alone, not actions
And this is why I think there is still a way to have a discussion with you compared to others. The problem is that your view of leftism is narrow and you assimilate any radical position to fake leftism. Which by logic push you to adopt the ideology of the social traitors (not you) who keep dividing the left by trying to push out radicals from the left when they are in fact the problem. Which pushes some of you to have adopt some anti-leftist vision (the idea of refusing to moderate ALL transphobia for ex is one)

We have people like that in France: Ruffin / Hollande / Roussel (who is supposed to be a communist btw, lol...) etc.

Radicals are not your ennemies, we are the solution.
 

Uncle Van

Bullets don't hurt. But Taxes do.
No one is saying that here. No even me.
It's an obvious exaggeration to express how irrational people can act.

Quite logical if you ask me. When someone points the fact that there are problematic, you come in and laugh at those people. (those people being me mostly lol). You are acting for their interest (even if they do not agree) so why would they attack you since you see no problems with what they say ?
The very fact I've punished them in this thread and had discussions where we're in disagreement, is proof alone that I don't agree with everything they say. Finding your argumentation ridiculous=/=supporting others.



And this is why I think there is still a way to have a discussion with you compared to others. The problem is that your view of leftism is narrow and you assimilate any radical position to fake leftism. Which by logic push you to adopt the ideology of the social traitors (not you) who keep dividing the left by trying to push out radicals from the left when they are in fact the problem. Which pushes some of you to have adopt some anti-leftist vision (the idea of refusing to moderate ALL transphobia for ex is one)

We have people like that in France: Ruffin / Hollande / Roussel (who is supposed to be a communist btw, lol...) etc.

Radicals are not your ennemies, we are the solution.
Once again, you must have missed my posts calling radical leftism a necessity and what changes society for the better, using figures like MLK who was a radical leftist.

Stop hiding about other leftist and leftism as a whole. I find your tactics and argumentation to be terrible. Disagreeing with your misuse of terms and definitions, and your attitude and argumentation, doesn't =disagreeing with radical leftist.
 
Not you, but they often do it to me and to logiko even when he’s being reasonable.

All I’m saying is that I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I do think you hold a lot more contempt for users like solis than for people like nameless and ravager, who lie and gaslight others to oblivion just for the sake of their narrative, which is basically just their hatred for liberals and anything that resembles left-wing ideas.
Quote where i lied or gaslighted anyone.
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It's an obvious exaggeration to express how irrational people can act.



The very fact I've punished them in this thread and had discussions where we're in disagreement, is proof alone that I don't agree with everything they say. Finding your argumentation ridiculous=/=supporting others.





Once again, you must have missed my posts calling radical leftism a necessity and what changes society for the better, using figures like MLK who was a radical leftist.

Stop hiding about other leftist and leftism as a whole. I find your tactics and argumentation to be terrible. Disagreeing with your misuse of terms and definitions, and your attitude and argumentation, doesn't =disagreeing with radical leftist.
By radical, I hope you don't mean genocidal like Stalin and Mao.
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=definition of a biased mod
Wait, what did i miss. Why did he get axed? lmfao
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@Toby D. Dog Stop projecting. I use historical facts to fight your narratives. There is no ideology as genocidal as leftism. You guys are the ones that need to come up with mental gymnastics to justify your bullshit.
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Rav and Nameless are the only other clear cut aggressive right wingers/QUOTE]
Damn... I feel like a templar knight now lol
 
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Uncle Van

Bullets don't hurt. But Taxes do.
By radical,i hope you don't mean genocidal like Stalin and Mao.
Stalin and Mao aren't radical leftist; they are Authoritarian left. Adolf Hitler was Authoritarian right.

To be radical is to seek great change. If slavery is legal and the norm, seeking to abolish it made you a radical leftist for example, as getting rid of it requires geeat social and economic changes.

@Toby D. Dog Stop projecting. I use historical facts to fight your narratives. There is no ideology as genocidal as leftism. You guys are the ones that need to come up with mental gymnastics to justify your bullshit.
This is what I mean by aggression.

Damn...i feel like a templar knight now lol
You kinda are lol
 
Stalin and Mao aren't radical leftist; they are Authoritarian left. Adolf Hitler was Authoritarian right.

To be radical is to seek great change. If slavery is legal and the norm, seeking to abolish it made you a radical leftist for example, as getting rid of it requires geeat social and economic changes.



This is what I mean by aggression.



You kinda are lol
Ok, i get your point. Radical is just one those many words that can sound very aggressive. It could be misinterpreted.
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
Stalin and Mao aren't radical leftist; they are Authoritarian left. Adolf Hitler was Authoritarian right.

To be radical is to seek great change. If slavery is legal and the norm, seeking to abolish it made you a radical leftist for example, as getting rid of it requires geeat social and economic changes.
I think by definition then, all of them are radical. They're all revolutionaries or failed revolutionaries.
 
Quote where i lied or gaslighted anyone.
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By radical, I hope you don't mean genocidal like Stalin and Mao.
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Wait, what did i miss. Why did he get axed? lmfao
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@Toby D. Dog Stop projecting. I use historical facts to fight your narratives. There is no ideology as genocidal as leftism. You guys are the ones that need to come up with mental gymnastics to justify your bullshit.
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Damn... I feel like a templar knight now lol
I was just using you as an example. I don't consider you to be particularly honest or consistent. You're more than welcome to pretend I'm the same way.
 
Dude, i don't need to pretend anything. Your way of treating users that slightly annoy does a better job of showing people your true colors than anything i can say about you.
You advocate for death-squads, I'm pretty sure you can take a little bit of heat from some internet rando.

There's nothing left to discuss, I'm not really interested in having the same convo with you over and over again.
 
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