Controversial General Political Discussion

[Blax Blah]

I think its bullshit too. Factory workers for the most part add zero value to anything, they literally push buttons and do the simplest of tasks. Meanwhile, the factory owners had to raise the money to buy raw materials and build a fucking factory. Who do you think is more important : Some random guy that pushes buttons and carries boxes or a guy that has the wits and intelligence to create a large scale business? Workers are paid for their skills and time spent being productive. A product's worth is determined by costs of production and how much it is valued on the market. Workers influence the price of things by being influecing the cost of production. The more skilled you are, the more expensive it is to hire you and that will translate into a higher priced product, cause businessman need to cover their expenses. Surplus value in reality means return of investment. If businessmen didn't price their products to cover production costs. They would be literally having 0 profit. What is the point of a product that doesn't earn money? You might as well don't hire anyone and keep your money in your bank account, casue afterall the result will be the same.
Marxism is silly and stupid. It thrives on the envy of the uneducated.

I will edit a response into this message in a bit, but I would like to say, marxism is not socialism, not that it hasn't made some additions to the overall political theory of socialism, and not that those additions are small, but socialism doesn't mean marxism,
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Can any of his workers raise billions and administer that large enterprise as to be profitable? Elon is an extreme example,cause he is a genius and a inventor. i'm self employed, i have my own business. It takes smarts to keep things profitable. People that never tried to own a business have no idea how hard it is to be successful.

Yes, because the workers make the products that are valued at billions,

 

[NAMELESS]

I will edit a response into this message in a bit, but I would like to say, marxism is not socialism, not that it hasn't made some additions to the overall political theory of socialism, and not that those additions are small, but socialism doesn't mean marxism,

I get that it people in Europe have moved on from Marxism. Social democracy is quite different from the ideas of Marx, but that is not the case in the rest of the world.

 

[Zenos7]

kids contribute to society ? Are kids productive ?

They are getting education to eventually contribute

 

[Blax Blah]

I get that it people in Europe have moved on from Marxism. Social democracy is quite different from the ideas of Marx, but that is not the case in the rest of the world.

Well, not necesarilly that people have moved on from marxism, both marxism, anarchism, and social democracy, come from around the same time, I'm just saying that just as socialism is not anarcho-communism or social democracy, neither is it marxism, marxism is just a part of it,

 

[NAMELESS]

Well, not necesarilly that people have moved on from marxism, both marxism, anarchism, and social democracy, come from around the same time, I'm just saying that just as socialism is not anarcho-communism or social democracy, neither is it marxism, marxism is just a part of it,

Anyway, business need to profit in order to survive. Surplus Value is BS. ROI is a better term for the phenomena.
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Well, not necesarilly that people have moved on from marxism, both marxism, anarchism, and social democracy, come from around the same time, I'm just saying that just as socialism is not anarcho-communism or social democracy, neither is it marxism, marxism is just a part of it,

The most developed nations are the freest economies btw. I assume the first world uses Marxism as a political tool to keep third worlders underdeveloped. No industrialization means your people will be perpetually behind financially wise. Market regulation causes poverty.

 

[Blax Blah]

Anyway, business need to profit in order to survive. Surplus Value is BS. ROI is a better term for the phenomena.

Yeah, I think the issue isn't that surplus value exists, it's that it's taken by a group of shareholders, when the workers could own the factory together instead and share it,

 

[NAMELESS]

Yeah, I think the issue isn't that surplus value exists, it's that it's taken by a group of shareholders, when the workers could own the factory together instead and share it,

Bro, you don't understand. Try to create a hotdog shop and give it a go. Hire some random bozo and give him ownership over a share of the thing. You will see that you profitability will take a huge dive. In reality, you would be wasting time and resources. The most sane thing to do in this case is to close the damn business.
It sounds beautiful and virtuous on paper, but it doesn't work in reality.

 

[Logiko]

Honestly, bro, you're reaching. It's not inhuman to have limits. Grow up.

When I tell you "we should help people who need help" and you tell me "some people do not deserve to be helped (even when they need it)" well, you are giving me a inhuman stance.

Own you sh*t bra

his work would still be relatively nothing compared to the work of his workers,

Good stuff

They are getting education to eventually contribute

A potential. Yes.

We always need to invest in the future

Which is why we must invest on everyone and not just those who fit your vision.

but I'd rather invest in a child than an adult who does fuck all with their life and claims they cannot work when they probably could

Again, everyone is productive in their own way, the fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it not there.

Leftist usually tell people to underperform when they are exploited. Specifically because if they were doing more than needed, they would be stolen from the difference. Liberals will usually say that those people are lazy, but in reality they do not see that those people uses this time to do other things outside of the spectra of exploitation. Outside of the control of liberals and capitalist wankers.

Can any of his workers raise billions and administer that large enterprise as to be profitable?

Put them on the same position as him with the same priviledges and they will. Elon is a very bad business man, it's very well known.. so it wouldn't be even that hard.

People that never tried to own a business have no idea how hard it is to be successful.

That's sooooo hard.. I mean people live under the limit of poverty but damn... poor Elon.

 

[Reborn]

Yeah, I think the issue isn't that surplus value exists, it's that it's taken by a group of shareholders, when the workers could own the factory together instead and share it,

Idealism is different from the reality


If you see few companies making profits then 1000s suffer losses


In a situation of loss,

Will workers be willing to share the burden? Not take profit/salary and pay interest on loans and pay rent out of their own pocket?

If yes then they are free to be shareholders but reality is majority people likes to play it safe​

 

[NAMELESS]

When I tell you "we should help people who need help" and you tell me "some people do not deserve to be helped (even when they need it)" well, you are giving me a inhuman stance.

Own you sh*t bra



Good stuff







A potential. Yes.



Which is why we must invest on everyone and not just those who fit your vision.



Again, everyone is productive in their own way, the fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it not there.

Leftist usually tell people to underperform when they are exploited. Specifically because if they were doing more than needed, they would be stolen from the difference. Liberals will usually say that those people are lazy, but in reality they do not see that those people uses this time to do other things outside of the spectra of exploitation. Outside of the control of liberals and capitalist wankers.


Put them on the same position as him with the same priviledges and they will. Elon is a very bad business man, it's very well known.. so it wouldn't be even that hard.





That's sooooo hard.. I mean people live under the limit of poverty but damn... poor Elon.

Dude...shut up.

 

[Zenos7]

potential. Yes.

Yes,and if they then turn out to be lazy bums, fuckem

 

[NAMELESS]

Idealism is different from the reality


If you see few companies making profits then 1000s suffer losses


In a situation of loss,

Will workers be willing to share the burden? Not take profit/salary and pay interest on loans and pay rent out of their own pocket?

If yes then they are free to be shareholders but reality is majority people likes to play it safe​

Exactly, you don't get a free handout just cause you work for someone. I literally have 0 employees. If i decide to hire someone tomorrow, why would they be entitled to what i have built so far? This is exactly what Marxists want. They want a share of the cake without paying for the costs and putting in effort to cook the cake. It's theft. Straight up. The ideology of envy.

 

[Starbound Beast D. Draig]

Exactly, you don't get a free hand out just cause you work for someone. I literally have 0 employees. If i decide to hire someone tomorrow, why would they be entitled to what i have built so far? This is exactly what Marxists want. They want a share of the cake without paying for the costs and putting in effort to cook the cake. It's theft. Straight up. The ideology of envy.

 

[NAMELESS]

@Blax Blah did you get my points or was everything too confusing?
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Holy shit, i didn't know Marx's father was that based.

 

[Logiko]

Idealism is different from the reality

Idealism is the opposite of materialism and therefore the opposite of marxism mate.

Dude...shut up.

Nah

Yes,and if they then turn out to be lazy bums, fuckem

There is no such thing as lazy people.

I learned that the hard way.

I literally have 0 employees. If i decide to hire someone tomorrow, why would they be entitled to what i have built so far? This is exactly what Marxists want. They want a share of the cake without paying for the costs and putting in effort to cook the cake. It's theft. Straight up. The ideology of envy.

Lmao no.

 

[Blax Blah]

@Blax Blah did you get my points or was everything too confusing?
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Holy shit, i didn't know Marx's father was that based.

I think I get what you mean and to answer I would like to talk about the topics you mentioned but I should do something before that for an hour or two,

 

[Starbound Beast D. Draig]

There is no such thing as lazy people.

Please look into the mirror for once

 

[Blax Blah]

Here is a cool story though, this may not be true, I will give a source after I say what I have heard to check it, but apparently one of the few, or the only, factories left in Europe is a factory in Greece named with V like maybe Veritasium or Viome, and Viome was a factory abandoned by its owners because of lack of profits, that the workers took ownership of, and now run democratically and use to make things that help the enviroment,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIO.ME. .,

 

[NAMELESS]

Idealism is the opposite of materialism and therefore the opposite of marxism mate.



Nah


There is no such thing as lazy people.

I learned that the hard way.



Lmao no.

 

[Logiko]

Please look into the mirror for once

You would lost it in less that 1 month if I gave you my place mate.

Come on don't talk about what you don't understand.