Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love

[PuckTheGreat]

Dont know how you all feel about that but I personally hate the forced parallels personality wise between Gaban and Sanji

the whole minister of love was forced to me

I don’t need Roger pirate to be similar to SH

Personally I don’t really mind it.
The Roger Pirate/Straw Hats parallels are not unique to Sanji. We’ve had them with both Luffy & Zoro (I.e. Zoro more so with stuff like the scar across the eye, swordsman, meiou/enou parallels. Ray also seems to love alcohol). I think it could make for interesting dialogue/interactions btw Sanji & Gaban if the opportunity ever arises. Moreover, it completely shuts up the detractors that try to under cut Sanji’s importance in the story & on the crew like the ‘triggers’ mandem or those that have been saying Gaban is Nami or Jinbe’s parallel in an effort to under cut Sanji’s importance ^^

 

[RayanOO]

The Roger Pirate/Straw Hats parallels are not unique to Sanji. We’ve had them with both Luffy & Zoro (I.e. Zoro more so with stuff like the scar across the eye, swordsman, meiou/enou parallels. Ray also seems to love alcohol).

Don’t worry I don’t like at all those parallels too

Roger was portrayed differently compared to Luffy at first : a demon, killed Squardo crew, seems different personality wise and even design. Now in the Oden flashback Oda made a Roger a lot more alike to Luffy.

‘Same with Ray. I loved Ray intro. And the guy really felt like his own character. He wasn’t like Zoro at all. Yet post time skip Oda couldn’t stop himself and scarred Zoro eye to match it, gave him similar title etc etc.

I think those kind of things are killing the vibes.

‘Like they are not character anymore. Just a Roger crew 2.0 or for the Roger pirates a SH crew 0.5

It felt like everything was planned from the start, written into the stars, to gather this crew specifically, with this kind of personality traits.

It would have been much better to have two real different crews.

‘Both crews have different individualities, different stories, times etc.

Moreover, it completely shuts up the detractors that try to under cut Sanji’s importance in the story & on the crew like the ‘triggers’ mandem or those that have been saying Gaban is Nami or Jinbe’s parallel in an effort to under cut Sanji’s importance ^^

Don’t care about those guys

If they didn’t know Sanji was super important to the crew, super strong, had a power ladder/fights that parallels the other M3 etc I cannot do anything for them

Even Jimbo being the Sunbell of the crew is quite lame

Post automatically merged: Today at 7:55 AM

Nami seems to have no parallels into Roger crew
Good point for her

 

[Rumble]

Dont know how you all feel about that but I personally hate the forced parallels personality wise between Gaban and Sanji

the whole minister of love was forced to me

I don’t need Roger pirate to be similar to SH

I understand the dislike of it but I don't think forced is the right word this late in the game when the Sanji/Gaban parallel is only the latest example of such. We've known for a while Luffy is extremely similar to Roger. Zoro and Rayleigh have obvious overlaps in style, aesthetic and personality. Yamato literally goes by Oden's name. I am personally of the believe Sunbell will appear at Lodestar and make Jinbe's importance to getting to Laugh Tale clear.

That Roger had a second dependable comrade that has similar vibes to Sanji was pretty much to be expected. What I like specifically about the way Oda handled Gaban in relation to Sanji is that Luffy himself made the connection based on personality and nothing else.

In terms of aesthetics and fighting style, the two are very different. Really the only thing they have in common is love of women and, it appears, specialising in CoO.

 

[Raiden7]

Hmmm...
None of the poll options really stand out to me as it for Sanji and CoC 🤔
Don't think the final war or all blue are appropriate times for him to manifest it and I personally don't think pudding is it.
Also think Elbaf is a bit too soon given we just had Ifrit and PoL was only just reintroduced into the series, so reckon that would be at the forefront for the time being. Only scenario that comes to mind is Sanji manifesting it in a fight when he's about to dominate someone (i.e. for instance another demon/devil in a. fight), hence why I think it'd be together with a PU.

Sanji has a lot of Devil quotes, and one that really stuck out to me as his statement about Enel hurting Nami "If he hurts Nami, I'll become the devil of the blue sea" or sumin along those lines so my prediction would be that it'd come whenever Oda makes good on the Sanji/Devil connection (i.e. Satan is the king of hell so would be fitting)

Chose during the BB Pirates fight ^^ but don't think Pudding will be the catalyst

I hope it's Elbaf for haoushoku haki unlock, I fear that after that would be too late.

The main issue and problem for me it's if Oda has the time to give Sanji the relevance he needs in order to unlock it in this saga. Does Oda have time to focus on Sanji? This is my main concern.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

I want the RS back.

Lackteo

Destroying RS was the best decision ever.

Post automatically merged: Today at 11:03 AM

Dont know how you all feel about that but I personally hate the forced parallels personality wise between Gaban and Sanji

the whole minister of love was forced to me

I don’t need Roger pirate to be similar to SH

Voicing it give clear cut L to many, maybe that's why some love it. I personally don't mind it they aren't carbon copy, their fighting style is different and personality also is aside from Minister of Love thing.

 

[Hiragaro]

The issue with CoC is that Oda has to give it to him now, because other wise he will have to rush it, like he did with Zoro, which writing wise isn't great considering how long it took for Luffy.

Let's look at Luffy:
Luffy unlocked it Pre-TS -> Trained for 2 years to learn to controll it -> unlocked the advanced version by seing it from Kaidou (he got it way too quick and easy here imo, considering how ''special'' it is supposed to be)

Luffy got a pretty long way from unlocking it to AdvCoC, which was always an issue when speculating when and if another SH is gonna get CoC, they would be able to learn it much faster in order for it to matter. Which is how it also turned out with Zoro and probably will also with Sanji.

Zoro:
Apparently used with Ashura against Kaidou -> Activated and used CoC + AdvCoC against King thanks to Enma ''pulling it out'' for him.

With Enma Oda took a short cut and could make Zoro skip the learning part about controlling CoC and go straight to AdvCoC (which i personaly never liked, because Enma already felt like a deus ex machina before that with the whole magical AP Boost, but whatever, it is what it is).

Sanji:
So in order for Sanji to get CoC and AdvCoC and learn how to controll it before the end game, we would probably need some sort of short cut aswell. And here is the problem, i don't see any. Sanji is not gonna get an Enma equivalent that would pull the CoC out of him.
I have thought that maybe the Germa and losing the emotions would play some part in it, maybe something like - Sanji losses his emotions and in order to get controll over them he would need CoC and basicaly to conquer his emotions and maybe even bring out the AdvCoC with it.
That is the only option i see and it's a little of a stretch.

Here is how i see it:
If Sanji doesn't get a short cut like Zoro, then Sanji would need to get basic CoC NOW!
Because this way he would have time to learn to controll it (even tho stil faster than Luffy, but at this point in the story that is to be expected) and then in a hard battle unlock AdvCoC as a PU.

Basic CoC:
Oda missed the perfect chance for Sanji to unlock it back in WCI, when his family was about to be exectued, he should have unlocked CoC, knock the fodder around them out and then break the Candy like he did. But Oda decided to go for a perfectly timed BM scream....
That would have been similar to how Luffy unlocked it.
Now you might say he didn't care enough about them, but he cared enough to not let them die and Reiju was there who he cared about alot.
And now is the question, what would bring out bigger emotions for him to overshadow that and let him unlock it. Nami or some other SH? It would feel kinda forced if all of a sudden an emotional trigger would work, when before it didn't.

AdvCoC:
AdvCoC is a PU, that means Sanji would need to fight someone where he would need this kind off PU.
And i don't see it on Elbaf. The Holy Knights are not gonna be so strong that Sanji would need such a PU to beat them - for that they would need to be way above YC level and i don't see it (outside of Shamrock obviously, but he wouldn't be Sanji's opponent).

Conclusion:
Either Sanji gets a short cut via Germa/Emotionals or something or he has to unlock basic CoC and work his way up to AdvCoC.

I do think that Sanji should get CoC - every Top Tier should have - and not some ''weird or special'' equivalent of it.

 

[Jackteo]

Destroying RS was the best decision ever.

He destroyed the canister, not the RS

 

[Hiragaro]

Destroying RS was the best decision ever.

Unfortunately to late

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Destroying RS was the best decision ever.

I honestly disagree lol. It should have gotten the redesign he planned to make Franky pull off and kept it. It's a shame it would have turned him completely like his brothers emotion wise

 

[kekaro]

Dont know how you all feel about that but I personally hate the forced parallels personality wise between Gaban and Sanji

the whole minister of love was forced to me

I don’t need Roger pirate to be similar to SH

Eh im fine, he dropped the title so Luffy could say it
His personality his own clearly not forced. His dynamic with rayleigh is not like sanjis with zoros either.


I cant prove this, but after the Sanji-Robin-Black Maria, and Kizaru on Egghead debacle, where in both instances Oda needed to post-chapter/volume needed to clarify, i think oda, RIGHTLY SO, has lost all trust in the general audience reading the manga so he needs to elaborate this stuff now cause he legit thinks the reactionary audience is too dumb to read

It is sad but it is what it is, i fully believe this

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Dont know how you all feel about that but I personally hate the forced parallels personality wise between Gaban and Sanji

the whole minister of love was forced to me

I don’t need Roger pirate to be similar to SH

Oda had to do it otherwise there would be one piece fans denying the connection to Sanji. This is the same fandom denies Aramaki posing a blackblade depsite Oda drawing him with one.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Dont know how you all feel about that but I personally hate the forced parallels personality wise between Gaban and Sanji

the whole minister of love was forced to me

I don’t need Roger pirate to be similar to SH

If Oda didn’t make it obvious we’d have people arguing if its Nami or Jinbe

 

[PuckTheGreat]

The issue with CoC is that Oda has to give it to him now, because other wise he will have to rush it, like he did with Zoro, which writing wise isn't great considering how long it took for Luffy.

Let's look at Luffy:
Luffy unlocked it Pre-TS -> Trained for 2 years to learn to controll it -> unlocked the advanced version by seing it from Kaidou (he got it way too quick and easy here imo, considering how ''special'' it is supposed to be)

Luffy got a pretty long way from unlocking it to AdvCoC, which was always an issue when speculating when and if another SH is gonna get CoC, they would be able to learn it much faster in order for it to matter. Which is how it also turned out with Zoro and probably will also with Sanji.

Zoro:
Apparently used with Ashura against Kaidou -> Activated and used CoC + AdvCoC against King thanks to Enma ''pulling it out'' for him.

With Enma Oda took a short cut and could make Zoro skip the learning part about controlling CoC and go straight to AdvCoC (which i personaly never liked, because Enma already felt like a deus ex machina before that with the whole magical AP Boost, but whatever, it is what it is).

Sanji:
So in order for Sanji to get CoC and AdvCoC and learn how to controll it before the end game, we would probably need some sort of short cut aswell. And here is the problem, i don't see any. Sanji is not gonna get an Enma equivalent that would pull the CoC out of him.
I have thought that maybe the Germa and losing the emotions would play some part in it, maybe something like - Sanji losses his emotions and in order to get controll over them he would need CoC and basicaly to conquer his emotions and maybe even bring out the AdvCoC with it.
That is the only option i see and it's a little of a stretch.

Here is how i see it:
If Sanji doesn't get a short cut like Zoro, then Sanji would need to get basic CoC NOW!
Because this way he would have time to learn to controll it (even tho stil faster than Luffy, but at this point in the story that is to be expected) and then in a hard battle unlock AdvCoC as a PU.

Basic CoC:
Oda missed the perfect chance for Sanji to unlock it back in WCI, when his family was about to be exectued, he should have unlocked CoC, knock the fodder around them out and then break the Candy like he did. But Oda decided to go for a perfectly timed BM scream....
That would have been similar to how Luffy unlocked it.
Now you might say he didn't care enough about them, but he cared enough to not let them die and Reiju was there who he cared about alot.
And now is the question, what would bring out bigger emotions for him to overshadow that and let him unlock it. Nami or some other SH? It would feel kinda forced if all of a sudden an emotional trigger would work, when before it didn't.

AdvCoC:
AdvCoC is a PU, that means Sanji would need to fight someone where he would need this kind off PU.
And i don't see it on Elbaf. The Holy Knights are not gonna be so strong that Sanji would need such a PU to beat them - for that they would need to be way above YC level and i don't see it (outside of Shamrock obviously, but he wouldn't be Sanji's opponent).

Conclusion:
Either Sanji gets a short cut via Germa/Emotionals or something or he has to unlock basic CoC and work his way up to AdvCoC.

I do think that Sanji should get CoC - every Top Tier should have - and not some ''weird or special'' equivalent of it.

You make some really good points ^^
And I see what you're saying with regards to WCI but I think Oda follows a pattern with regard to how he gives the M3 stuff. For instance, Luffy first got a bounty, then Zoro and then Sanji so don't think Oda was ever gonna have Sanji manifest it before Zoro did, even if it'd have been more organic from a writing perspective to give it to him on WCI.

Not really gonna comment on Zoro's CoC, can't really remember how I felt about it on Wano or the intricacies with regard to Enma tbh but it's true that he did go from 0~100 lol but then again, Advanced CoC in itself is not some extremely intricate PU, it's basically just coating your attacks with CoC so long as you have CoC and can coat it, you can use it. Fully expect Sanji to go from 0~100 as well if he ever unlocks it 😂.

I do get what you're saying on build-up with regard to Sanji in particular but tbh, in the first place, CoC was said to be something that cannot be trained, will just get stronger the stronger you get so Oda kinda has that get out of jail card, if Sanji unlocks it and is suddenly able to use powerful CoC attacks. Sanji or Zoro for that matter are never really gonna get the type of training focus that Luffy gets. They just learn on the job and progress with each arc lol

Oda missed the perfect chance for Sanji to unlock it back in WCI, when his family was about to be exectued, he should have unlocked CoC, knock the fodder around them out and then break the Candy like he did. But Oda decided to go for a perfectly timed BM scream....
That would have been similar to how Luffy unlocked it.
Now you might say he didn't care enough about them, but he cared enough to not let them die and Reiju was there who he cared about alot.
And now is the question, what would bring out bigger emotions for him to overshadow that and let him unlock it. Nami or some other SH? It would feel kinda forced if all of a sudden an emotional trigger would work, when before it didn't.

Bolded bit is exactly why I also can't see this scenario where he suddenly manifests CoC out of desperation to save someone. Sanji was literally in a similar kinda situation on Egghead when he got frozen by Saturn and couldn't save Bonney so yh, I'm not really seeing that "desperation" leading to unlocking it scenario even if it's Nami. Think the series has progressed way too far for him to unlock it that way hence why I'm betting on it happening with his next PU, feel like that'd be the most organic way for it to happen. If anyone is gonna unlock it in that "desperation to save someone" way, I think it'd be Usopp.

I hope it's Elbaf for haoushoku haki unlock, I fear that after that would be too late.

The main issue and problem for me it's if Oda has the time to give Sanji the relevance he needs in order to unlock it in this saga. Does Oda have time to focus on Sanji? This is my main concern.

If it's not Elbaf then I think it'd have to be with his next power-up if Oda's ever gonna make him manifest it but I can't really think of how, only thing I feel could potentially trigger it is a really intense fight on Elbaf where he just coats it subconsciously but Elbaf's villains are not really giving me that all or nothing vibe tbh

 

[Hedfi]

The issue with CoC is that Oda has to give it to him now, because other wise he will have to rush it, like he did with Zoro, which writing wise isn't great considering how long it took for Luffy.

Let's look at Luffy:
Luffy unlocked it Pre-TS -> Trained for 2 years to learn to controll it -> unlocked the advanced version by seing it from Kaidou (he got it way too quick and easy here imo, considering how ''special'' it is supposed to be)

Luffy got a pretty long way from unlocking it to AdvCoC, which was always an issue when speculating when and if another SH is gonna get CoC, they would be able to learn it much faster in order for it to matter. Which is how it also turned out with Zoro and probably will also with Sanji.

Zoro:
Apparently used with Ashura against Kaidou -> Activated and used CoC + AdvCoC against King thanks to Enma ''pulling it out'' for him.

With Enma Oda took a short cut and could make Zoro skip the learning part about controlling CoC and go straight to AdvCoC (which i personaly never liked, because Enma already felt like a deus ex machina before that with the whole magical AP Boost, but whatever, it is what it is).

Sanji:
So in order for Sanji to get CoC and AdvCoC and learn how to controll it before the end game, we would probably need some sort of short cut aswell. And here is the problem, i don't see any. Sanji is not gonna get an Enma equivalent that would pull the CoC out of him.
I have thought that maybe the Germa and losing the emotions would play some part in it, maybe something like - Sanji losses his emotions and in order to get controll over them he would need CoC and basicaly to conquer his emotions and maybe even bring out the AdvCoC with it.
That is the only option i see and it's a little of a stretch.

Here is how i see it:
If Sanji doesn't get a short cut like Zoro, then Sanji would need to get basic CoC NOW!
Because this way he would have time to learn to controll it (even tho stil faster than Luffy, but at this point in the story that is to be expected) and then in a hard battle unlock AdvCoC as a PU.

Basic CoC:
Oda missed the perfect chance for Sanji to unlock it back in WCI, when his family was about to be exectued, he should have unlocked CoC, knock the fodder around them out and then break the Candy like he did. But Oda decided to go for a perfectly timed BM scream....
That would have been similar to how Luffy unlocked it.
Now you might say he didn't care enough about them, but he cared enough to not let them die and Reiju was there who he cared about alot.
And now is the question, what would bring out bigger emotions for him to overshadow that and let him unlock it. Nami or some other SH? It would feel kinda forced if all of a sudden an emotional trigger would work, when before it didn't.

AdvCoC:
AdvCoC is a PU, that means Sanji would need to fight someone where he would need this kind off PU.
And i don't see it on Elbaf. The Holy Knights are not gonna be so strong that Sanji would need such a PU to beat them - for that they would need to be way above YC level and i don't see it (outside of Shamrock obviously, but he wouldn't be Sanji's opponent).

Conclusion:
Either Sanji gets a short cut via Germa/Emotionals or something or he has to unlock basic CoC and work his way up to AdvCoC.

I do think that Sanji should get CoC - every Top Tier should have - and not some ''weird or special'' equivalent of it.

Imo, Oda doesn't like to repeat himself so he'll not make AdvCoC another plot point PUwise for no one else after Wano. It's the same for FS, Sanji will never learn FS because said PU was already a major fucus point back at WCI and Oda won't repeat it again.

However, I'm very sure Sanji will unlock basic CoC. After that, there's three ways Oda could go with it:

First, Sanji will learn the Anti-CoO CoC ability that Shanks has, and it'll perfectly complement his invisible speed fighting style by becoming more than just invisible through sheer speed and become totally undetectable.

Second, Sanji will learn the advanced form of the nullification aspect of CoC, which imo may actually be the PoL, and becomes nigh invulnerable. Consequently, this PU is natural progression for his prior Exo PU, and may actually be the requirement for him to finally unlock black flames DJ.

Third, he'll learn them both. Possibly one in Elbaph then the other by EOS.

 

[Hiragaro]

CoC was said to be something that cannot be trained, will just get stronger the stronger you get

You can't train it to make it stronger, it gets stronger the stronger you are, but you stil have to train to learn how to controll it.

Sanji was literally in a similar kinda situation on Egghead when he got frozen by Saturn and couldn't save Bonney so yh

I thought about this and i remember when it was happening, some people speculated him unlocking CoC here, which would have been good imo, but i didn't mentioned it, because you could say Sanji doesn't have a deep enough connection to Bonney to trigger it.

Would be cool if Sanji gets it this Arc, because we got the introduction of Gaban and it would be kind off symbolic - the Left Hand of Roger and the Hand left of Luffy.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Imo, Oda doesn't like to repeat himself so he'll not make AdvCoC another plot point PUwise for no one else after Wano. It's the same for FS, Sanji will never learn FS because said PU was already a major fucus point back at WCI and Oda won't repeat it again.

However, I'm very sure Sanji will unlock basic CoC. After that, there's three ways Oda could go with it:

First, Sanji will learn the Anti-CoO CoC ability that Shanks has, and it'll perfectly complement his invisible speed fighting style by becoming more than just invisible through sheer speed and become totally undetectable.

Second, Sanji will learn the advanced form of the nullification aspect of CoC, which imo may actually be the PoL, and becomes nigh invulnerable. Consequently, this PU is natural progression for his prior Exo PU, and may actually be the requirement for him to finally unlock black flames DJ.

Third, he'll learn them both. Possibly one in Elbaph then the other by EOS.

I like this~! ^^
Sanji being able to kill CoO with his speed with be OP as shit.
Can't remember it ever having being mentioned that Shanks can kill CoC though but if Sanji ever had the ability to outright kill Haki then it'd defo be through Power of Love ^^. Really like this thought pattern :p

 

[Reborn]

Dont know how you all feel about that but I personally hate the forced parallels personality wise between Gaban and Sanji

the whole minister of love was forced to me

I don’t need Roger pirate to be similar to SH

Ya idk why oda is so fascinated by parallels with the past.

Joyboy/Nika - Ancient kingdom parallel + Roger parallel ---> worse thing isn't the parallel but oda making all of them like Luffy.


And, I fear Oda is doing the same with Ray - Zoro and Sanji - Gaban

Problem with all of these is we have seen SHs for a long time now. So, if Roger pirates turn out to be same then it's kind of boring for me. There is no originality in personality.


On CoC -

Tbh, not a big fan of RS and Exoskeleton. Haki should have been the way for Sanji.

Every power system in one piece is centered around Haki and dfs. Every top tier in one piece has mastery over atleast one of either of these two.

So, why oda took different path for Sanji is beyond my understanding..

And, I will tell you why this different path is quite concerning - oda is really bad at power levels but atleast he still focuses on developing Haki and Dfs because every top tier have it..

Sanji having different path could end up suffering from lack of focus from Oda (like in case of Usopp)

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Ya idk why oda is so fascinated by parallels with the past.

Joyboy/Nika - Ancient kingdom parallel + Roger parallel ---> worse thing isn't the parallel but oda making all of them like Luffy.


And, I fear Oda is doing the same with Ray - Zoro and Sanji - Gaban

Problem with all of these is we have seen SHs for a long time now. So, if Roger pirates turn out to be same then it's kind of boring for me. There is no originality in personality.


On CoC -

Tbh, not a big fan of RS and Exoskeleton. Haki should have been the way for Sanji.

Every power system in one piece is centered around Haki and dfs. Every top tier in one piece has mastery over atleast one of either of these two.

So, why oda took different path for Sanji is beyond my understanding..

And, I will tell you why this different path is quite concerning - oda is really bad at power levels but atleast he still focuses on developing Haki and Dfs because every top tier have it..

Sanji having different path could end up suffering from lack of focus from Oda (like in case of Usopp)

Odas probably just retconning an additional power system into the story. Power of Love or whatever it’ll be ultimately called. Oda did confirm that Garp could hurt Luffy with love and no haki since fishman island after all and after Oda showed Roger haki ~ Whitebeard haki, Rogers needed a power to combat the ultimate paramecia

 

[kekaro]

Ya idk why oda is so fascinated by parallels with the past.

Joyboy/Nika - Ancient kingdom parallel + Roger parallel ---> worse thing isn't the parallel but oda making all of them like Luffy.


And, I fear Oda is doing the same with Ray - Zoro and Sanji - Gaban

Problem with all of these is we have seen SHs for a long time now. So, if Roger pirates turn out to be same then it's kind of boring for me. There is no originality in personality.


On CoC -

Tbh, not a big fan of RS and Exoskeleton. Haki should have been the way for Sanji.

Every power system in one piece is centered around Haki and dfs. Every top tier in one piece has mastery over atleast one of either of these two.

So, why oda took different path for Sanji is beyond my understanding..

And, I will tell you why this different path is quite concerning - oda is really bad at power levels but atleast he still focuses on developing Haki and Dfs because every top tier have it..

Sanji having different path could end up suffering from lack of focus from Oda (like in case of Usopp)

I call cap on the power system focus thing
Re-read egghead (AKA the first arc of the final saga, oda own words)

We got way more power of love and tech set up in the arc oda promised us he will "explain to us all about DFs" as dfs and haki is such a hated system that even half of this forum hates it as oda appreantly just stopped to draw it for 3 years now

This is just your bias talking

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

the Left Hand of Roger and the Hand left of Luffy.

Left hand of PK introduced this arc, should naturally lead for an important role for Sanji this arc. Like at the end of Water 7 when he followed Robin on the train.​