Powers & Abilities Could it be that Zoro actually did go all out in dressrosa? Zoro doesn't know how to use asura

[duckman]

It's literally not that.

I just don't think it makes sense from a writing perspective to make Zoro the only straw hat who hasn't gone all out. Its been about a decade since sabaody.

it would have cost Oda zero dollars to make Pica a worthy opponent for Zoro. So from my perspective there are two options:

1. Zoro did actually go all out in dressrosa, similar to how Sanji and jinbe went all out in fishman island
2. Oda is unecessarily prolonging zoro showing his full strength

If Zoro actually did master asura over the timeskip, then why doesn't he use it all the time? Why did he choose to get thrown by orolumbus instead of just use asura? Why doesn't he use asura like sanji and Luffy use diable jambe and the gears?

Zoro fans say that Zoro hasn't used more than 10% of his power or whatever, but I don't see why Oda would do that to us.

The sheer fact that Zoro's non asura attacks are so powerful indicates that instead of spending time developing asura to the point to where he could use it casually(Like sanji and luffy with their power ups), he just focused on improving santoryu. Why would he do that? I suspect its because Zoro cannot master asura with only the sandai kitetsu.

Post automatically merged: Aug 8, 2020

I think at the very least, I would have had Zoro use asura before the final war of wano. But here we ware, 10 years past sabaody and no asura.

Look, logically speaking, if Zoro was that much above Pica he would have owned him the moment they were sword fighting. Zoro didn't lay a finger on Pica. He didn't touch him. And yes, because Pica was running? No, because he was dodging. What kind of Vergo idiot takes a sword strike with his body? Wasnt Katakuri also dodging all of Luffy's hits? If Zoro can't stop him then he can't stop him, all else is just excuses.

Zoro was clearly out of breath after defeating Pica, and his face was a proud expression as well. He went all out. He used "Secret Arts" at least twice. Everyone who reads manga knows Secret Arts is the top tier technique. I mean what else do you need?

Zoro said: Three Swords Style Ultimate Technique and you're arguing over whether he went all out or not?

 

[BossYimz]

Pica himself was never on Zoro's level I'll agree, but still having to take that long to locate and beat him, says alot about Zoro. He's just not up to YC par.

I think people underestimate Pica's ability as well as underestimate Zoro's coo ability.

When Luffy and co were running on golem arm, Luffy attacked the head with grizzly mugnum as Pica was controlling the golem at the time
However, immediately after, Zoro had to tell Luffy that the golem was just stone. Luffy was surprised upon hearing this. He couldn't believe the golem head was just stone as well as couldn't believe that the golem they were walking on was stone. He was later also surprised when Zoro pointed out that Pica was outside the golem and infront of them.

From the above panel it is evident that:

• Zoro demonstrated the ability sense when the golem was "alive" and when the golem was just stone. He was able to sense when Pica was controlling the golem and when he was not. He could even locate Pica's relative position when in the golem and outside.
• Luffy was unable to determine when the golem was "alive" and when the golem was just stone. He was unable to sense when Pica was controlling the golem and when he was not. He couldn't locate Pica's relative position when in the golem and outside.

Sensing Pica's position and whether the golem is "alive"/"dead" is a feat from Zoro that people sleep on and assume anyone with coo at the very least on Zoro's lvl can do it which is clearly not the case. Luffy, who people say has better COO than Zoro was unable to sense Pica whereas Zoro was able to do this despite both having been in the same situation at the same time. Both of them had seen Pica for the same amount of time at that point however, we see Zoro could sense Pica and when golem is "alive", whilst Luffy couldn't.

 

[Ravagerblade]

I think people underestimate Pica's ability as well as underestimate Zoro's coo ability.

When Luffy and co were running on golem arm, Luffy attacked the head with grizzly mugnum as Pica was controlling the golem at the time
However, immediately after, Zoro had to tell Luffy that the golem was just stone. Luffy was surprised upon hearing this. He couldn't believe the golem head was just stone as well as couldn't believe that the golem they were walking on was stone. He was later also surprised when Zoro pointed out that Pica was outside the golem and infront of them.

From the above panel it is evident that:

• Zoro demonstrated the ability sense when the golem was "alive" and when the golem was just stone. He was able to sense when Pica was controlling the golem and when he was not and could even locate Pica's relative position when in the golem and outside.
• Luffy was unable to determine when the golem was "alive" and when the golem was just stone. He was unable to sense when Pica was controlling the golem and when he was not and could

Sensing Pica's position and whether the golem is "alive"/"dead" is a feat from Zoro that people sleep on and assume anyone with coo at the very least on Zoro's lvl can do it which is clearly not the case. Luffy, who people say has better COO than Zoro was unable to sense Pica whereas Zoro was able to do this despite both having been in the same situation at the same time. Both of them had seen Pica for the same amount of time at that point however, we see Zoro could sense Pica and when golem is "alive", whilst Luffy couldn't.

This is easily countered by the fact that they aren't in the same position. One just attacked while the other was watching. GG

What I'm saying is, that shit doesn't matter in the long run. Just nitpicky bullshit.

 

[Albino 👑]

He "went all out" in the same way jinbe did at fmi
Jinbei showed off his strongest attack during fmi and zoro showed his strongest attacks non ashura

If jinbe was near water his attack would be stronger if zoro used ashura his attacks would be stronger

 

[BossYimz]

This is easily countered by the fact that they aren't in the same position. One just attacked while the other was watching. GG

What you say doesn't hold water.
In FI Luffy and Zoro showed the ability to sense Caribou whilst he was very far away.

The distance of where Luffy was and Zoro relative to each other on the golem is insignificant when compared to the distance they sense Caribou from. If they could sense Caribou from such a long distance, then they could sense Pica from the distance they were at

Your argument also skips over the fact that Zoro was the one that told Luffy where Pica's real body was. This information suprised Luffy as we can see the exclaimation marks. They were next to each other when Zoro pointed out Pica's body location. So your distance location is thrown out the window

As for the argument that Luffy can't sense Pica whilst attacking the golem, this doesn't hold much water as we saw Zoro do just that whilst fighting Pica later in the arc.
We also saw Luffy display the ability to sense things with COO whilst fighting through out the new world so that is not the issue here. In fact in the flashback when Ray was training him, he could sense the attacks whilst blindfolded showing he can sense without even seeing things.

 

[Ravagerblade]

What you say doesn't hold water.
In FI Luffy and Zoro showed the ability to sense Caribou whilst he was very far away.

The distance of where Luffy was and Zoro relative to each other on the golem is insignificant when compared to the distance they sense Caribou from. If they could sense Caribou from such a long distance, then they could sense Pica from the distance they were at

Your argument also skips over the fact that Zoro was the one that told Luffy where Pica's real body was. This information suprised Luffy as we can see the exclaimation marks.

As for the argument that Luffy can't sense Pica whilst attacking the golem, this doesn't hold much water as we saw Zoro do just that whilst fighting Pica later in the arc.
We also saw Luffy display the ability to sense things with COO whilst fighting through out the new world so that is not the issue here. In fact in the flashback when Ray was training him, he could sense the attacks whilst blindfolded showing he can sense without even seeing things.

Saying it doesn't hold water isn't much.
Luffy attacked the head believing that was good, Zoro was watching and sensed, that's the difference. Nothing special about it. Just hyping Zoro to better for some reason.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Anyways, im not trying to downplay zoro. ISDS could honestly be on par with KKG if not stronger.

I just don't think it makes sense for Oda to have held back Zoro in dressrosa and hence I think that ISDS is effectively his best move. While asura exists, I think he either doesn't have full control over it, or that it perhaps has some sort of negative side effects that make it unusable in 99% of circumstances.

 

[Just a member]

He maybe went all out, for sure serious, for a few seconds vs Kamazou and that was enough to one shot him despite Zoro was already wounded... We will most likely see Zoro's limit vs King (it has to be this time since until now it has almost been a 100% walk in the park for him).

Also about Asura it could simply be that at this point he found something better than it? Anyway, be Asura or some other power, he didn't use it yet cause there was no need to given who he fought until now.

 

[BossYimz]

Saying it doesn't hold water isn't much.
Luffy attacked the head believing that was good, Zoro was watching and sensed, that's the difference. Nothing special about it. Just hyping Zoro to better for some reason.

Your argument is not sound.
Luffy was unable to sense whether golem was "alive" or just stone. He also didn't sense where Pica's real body was. It is in the panel. If you want to deny it that is up to you but saying am hyping Zoro doesn't change this fact.

 

[HA001]

Anyways, im not trying to downplay zoro. ISDS could honestly be on par with KKG if not stronger.

I just don't think it makes sense for Oda to have held back Zoro in dressrosa and hence I think that ISDS is effectively his best move. While asura exists, I think he either doesn't have full control over it, or that it perhaps has some sort of negative side effects that make it unusable in 99% of circumstances.

Youre contradicting yourself.
Hes either gone all out or he has asura. It cant be both because 9 swords >>>

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

ashura seems to function in similar way like king kong gun.
More of a finishing move rather than a form (G4 or diable jambe).
Zoro used ashura on durable enemies like zoan kaku or pacifista.
up to now, zoro can oneshot his enemies. I would say that he would only need to pull ashura when the enemy has ridiculous durability. Kaido, for example

 

[Geo]

just don't think it makes sense from a writing perspective to make Zoro the only straw hat who hasn't gone all out. Its been about a decade since sabaody.

Robin hasn't gone all out either. It only means he hadn't met an opponent who would push him to all out

it would have cost Oda zero dollars to make Pica a worthy opponent for Zoro. So from my perspective there are two options:

1. Zoro did actually go all out in dressrosa, similar to how Sanji and jinbe went all out in fishman island
2. Oda is unecessarily prolonging zoro showing his full strength

Or
1. Zoro didn't go all out
2. Oda isn't unnecessarily prolonging it

Oda could've easily let Fuji fo the pushing but he didn't because he wanted to save Zoro's full power for later. So your reasons are weak.

Zoro actually did master asura over the timeskip, then why doesn't he use it all the time? Why did he choose to get thrown by orolumbus instead of just use asura? Why doesn't he use asura like sanji and Luffy use diable jambe and the gears?

Why would he do that when his base is already stronger than the G3/G2 and the DJ?
That's like asking why Luffy used G3 against Noah instead of G4. Different attacks for different purposes

Zoro fans say that Zoro hasn't used more than 10% of his power or whatever, but I don't see why Oda would do that to us.

Nobody reasonable has said that. Stop generalizing

The sheer fact that Zoro's non asura attacks are so powerful indicates that instead of spending time developing asura to the point to where he could use it casually(Like sanji and luffy with their power ups), he just focused on improving santoryu. Why would he do that? I suspect its because Zoro cannot master asura with only the sandai kitetsu

Why can't he do both.
Your logic is implying Luffy didn't grow his G2/G3 (canonically false) in order to maintain G4 over the timeskip.

As I said in my initial post, it stems from you being too entrenched in your position about Zoro's power level. If you just accept that Zoro was just that strong, non of this would be needed. You wouldn't be making arguments like "why didn't Oda do this /that etc". The earlier you accept it the better it would be for you.. friendly advice

 

[Ravagerblade]

Your argument is not sound.
Luffy was unable to sense whether golem was "alive" or just stone. He also didn't sense where Pica's real body was. It is in the panel. If you want to deny it that is up to you but saying am hyping Zoro doesn't change this fact.

How do you sense? By using Haki CoO. Clearly Luffy wasn't using it then and by your own argument that he sensed Caribou in FI. That's why I'm calling bullshit on your argument.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Why can't he do both.
Your logic is implying Luffy didn't grow his G2/G3 (canonically false) in order to maintain G4 over the timeskip.

G2 and G3 is part of his gears. If Luffy trained like zoro did he would never use G2/G3 post skip and instead just use stronger versions of the attacks he used in base form.

As I said in my initial post, it stems from you being too entrenched in your position about Zoro's power level. If you just accept that Zoro was just that strong, non of this would be needed. You wouldn't be making arguments like "why didn't Oda do this /that etc". The earlier you accept it the better it would be for you.. friendly advice

I never said anything about Zoro's powerlevel. I don't mind zoro being that strong, that's not my grievance here. I think Oda should have shown zoro's full power before the onigashima war. Because he's done that with every other straw hat.

If Zoro was really above Luffy in dressrosa or however strong you say he is, fine. But then why not give him a fight in dressrosa that shows this? Unless the reason for making zoro this strong is because Oda didn't want to develop him much post-skip. If that is the case then it is tbh lazy writing.

Robin hasn't gone all out either. It only means he hadn't met an opponent who would push him to all out

I think she has, in that I don't think she has any power up we are unaware of.

 

[duckman]

Saying it doesn't hold water isn't much.
Luffy attacked the head believing that was good, Zoro was watching and sensed, that's the difference. Nothing special about it. Just hyping Zoro to better for some reason.

also it was his second fight with Pica

 

[WesMidnight]

Asura is not a flat mode that is applicable to all of his techniques, neither is Ni Gorilla.

It would massively deride the concept of Santoryu if all his peak moves required the illusory 9 sword style to be in peak power.

It's like saying Luffy's Axe is significantly stronger than his pistol, why doesn't he have a gattling+rifle+red hawk+gear 3rd form of it ?

Why didn't Zoro use Asura to multiply shishi sonson x3 against his loss vs. Kuma? Why didn't he stack Asura with Sanzensekai vs. Oz. It doesn't work that way, treating Asura as a flat boost to all of his moves and extrapolating his powers as a result is very strange.

 

[Ravagerblade]

also it was his second fight with Pica

What ever the case is, Luffy has/had more important business to take care of.

 

[PurpleSwordsman]

Ofc he went all out in Dressrosa.
The last attack against Pica was his strongest attack, the same one that he used against Mihawk or Oars. He showed all of his stronger moves except Ashura.

The thing with Ashura is that there is no proof of spiritual things coated with CoA, Ashura is a manifestation of his spirit.
So, for now, we can't say that he can use CoA with Ashura, that means Ashura without CoA < other attacks with CoA.

 

[Geo]

G2 and G3 is part of his gears. If Luffy trained like zoro did he would never use G2/G3 post skip and instead just use stronger versions of the attacks he used in base form.

But Luffy is not Zoro. He has a DF which he must train. Even preskip , Zoro wasn't using Asura in order to be comparable to G3/G2...he was already comparable without Asura.

I never said anything about Zoro's powerlevel. I don't mind zoro being that strong, that's not my grievance here. I think Oda should have shown zoro's full power before the onigashima war. Because he's done that with every other straw hat.

If Zoro was really above Luffy in dressrosa or however strong you say he is, fine. But then why not give him a fight in dressrosa that shows this? Unless the reason for making zoro this strong is because Oda didn't want to develop him much post-skip. If that is the case then it is tbh lazy writing.

I still do not see the issue. What does Zoro going all out have to do with anything...why is it needed?

I don't see anything wrong with how Oda has portrayed Zoro. It could very well be that there wasn't an opponent on DR suitable for Zoro to go all out on. The moment Zoro pushed back an admiral and countered the admiral's attack, that was the moment you should've known that there wasn't going be an enemy among DD's underlings who will push Zoro to go all out.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Still a shame that we didn't get Zoro vs Doffy in the Dr arc