Speculations Zoro will get utterly destroyed in a 1v1 by a swordsman before he surpasses Mihawk

#21
I would agree if Oda cares about the dreams of the crew

But at this point, the only dream he cares about is One Piece

For god's sake, Oda would rather create hundreds more character with unique design and gags than focus on what he has ALREADY

It's not just with Zoro!

When was the last time, we see Nami mention anything about her map?

When was last time we see Sanji say "oh, this fish, isn't supposed to be located in this area... how?" Type of puzzle for discovering all blue

Every arc Usopp shows progression by doing something brave, Oda retracts it one minute later by having Usopp running away

Chopper and his journey to find a miraculous cure to all diseases... and Oda is missing great chances like Tontatta princess ability Playing a part in Chopper evolution

I'm telling you all, the moment the SHs acheive their dreams in this series, the only three impactful ones will be:
- Luffy
- Robin
- Zoro

Cause as of now, the only sHs with highlights that shows advancement towards their dream are the above three...
I agree that he has not treated them and their dreams well lately but i think the list of sh that will have impact when achieving their dream will be longer
I would add Sanji too if the theory of destroying the redline is true then he might be the one that uses an ancient weapon and does it
But i don't care about Nami or Chopper or Franky's dream at all
Brook's reunion with that whale can be emotional
Usupp can be good too getting coc, meeting his dad and leading the giants but Oda should slowly make him braver he shouldn't be hiding from some fodder beast pirate anymore i think he should have been captured and turtured like people predicted and the progression could have gone from there
What is Jinbe's dream?
 
#24
Yeah, exactly.... and where did Oda go from there? like this is what KILLS ME

Oda introduces a plot, and he just ignores it later.... like can you honestly TELL ME that you're confident that Sanji will have a dialog in. this arc once again about that fish he saw? Or trying to discover the reason?

This is exactly the same with "Zoro/Sunnachiii/Ryuuma/Golden City/Shimotsuki clan" etc!

Where Oda ALREADY has TONS of good plots with CURRENT EXISTENT character in this arc to work on... but he would rather waste the new chapter on drawing NEW funny looking characters/subordinates from enemy side... and just waste our time with irrelevant people!
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I agree that he has not treated them and their dreams well lately but i think the list of sh that will have impact when achieving their dream will be longer
I would add Sanji too if the theory of destroying the redline is true then he might be the one that uses an ancient weapon and does it
But i don't care about Nami or Chopper or Franky's dream at all
Brook's reunion with that whale can be emotional
Usupp can be good too getting coc, meeting his dad and leading the giants but Oda should slowly make him braver he shouldn't be hiding from some fodder beast pirate anymore i think he should have been captured and turtured like people predicted and the progression could have gone from there
What is Jinbe's dream?
If the theory of destroying the red line is true... I can guarantee you that the One Piece community/fandom will ruin the moment because they will say "oh, I thought Oda will come with something innovative" LOL

For me, I like a different theory actually... In fact, I made a theory about it long ago, that's why I'm biased for it LOL...
 
#25
I would agree if Oda cares about the dreams of the crew
This is entirely uncalled for

C'mon don't say such disingenuous shit.

The straw hats have different dreams that mean different things both to them and the story.

By design Luffy dream is the most important. Not just because he's the MC but because it means the most to the world and themes of the story.

You are being weirdly narrow-minded to expect Nami to be shouting "I'm gonna draw the map of the world" as much as Luffy shouts about being Pirate king.

Even outside of their character differences, Nami's dream means something different to her than Luffy's dream means to him. Nami's dream is more of a hobby than a dying creed like Luffy's. The biggest advantage of Nami dream to herself is that it allows her to be useful to the crew and all she really wants is to be with the crew.

There's guys like Brook whose dream isn't even useful to the crew and yet all he also wants is to be with the crew. His dream literally only exists so that he can have an end point to his journey.

From the very get go, the story presents these people's dreams as a being fundamentally different in execution and importance. Franky for example has essentially completed his dream since the Sunny is his dream ship. Everything else Franky does ia because he just likes the crew.

That's the binding thing here. The very existence of the crew in itself is enough to drive all the characters and it's what keeps them together


Even zoro btw. Mihawk beats Zoro and Oda makes sure that the lesson Zoro learns from the defeat is that he needs to travel around the world with the crew in order to get anywhere with his dream.

The very adventure and journey is itself a fulfilment of everybody's dreams and goals and desires. The only thing that would destroy their dreams is to no longer be able to sail as a crew.

So if you want Zoro to lose again supposedly so that his loss can somehow inform his dream then remember the last time he lost. Oda had Zoro lose to Mihawk so that zoro can learn the importance of this adventure with Luffy towards achieving his goal. And its been 1000 chapters and we can all agree that this lesson was very useful and Zoro took it to heart.

Therefore for Zoro to lose again, you would expect a lesson of similar magnitude to be learned, RIGHT? I mean you wouldnt want zoro to lose just so he can learn the lesson that he needs to get a better sword right?

I mean really, try and compare the significance of these scenarios. Mihawk beat Zoro and 400 chapters later that loss informs Zoro's decision to lay down his life for Luffy since he knows the importance of this journey and his goal is now tied to the success of this journey. Then according to you, Zoro loses again in Wano so that a few chapters later he learns that he should get a better sword. Wow. What great storytelling.

This is all forgetting the fact that Zoro winning for 1000 chapters IS THE PROGRESSION of his dream. If you're saying that a loss is what would create progression in his dream then that means the last 1000 chapters of him winning are the opposite right? Him winning is NOT progressing his dream?
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And about the thread yeah Zoro will get atleast defeated 1 more time it could be in this raid because i think the raid will fail
@Bullet
No he won't. The raid can fail without Zoro losing a 1v1.

In fact if the raid fails and EVERYBODY is taken out then how will they survive? I mean if the entire alliance is knocked out or killed then who will save them.

Coincidentally, this has happened before. Kuma knocked out the strawhats and the lola pirates and the Villain was the last man standing. Until someone stood up and saved the day.

See, the raid failing doesn't equal Zoro losing
 
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#26
This is entirely uncalled for

C'mon don't say such disingenuous shit.

The straw hats have different dreams that mean dif fervent things both to them and the story.

By design Luffy dream is the most important. Not just because he's the MC but because it means the most to the world and themes of the story.

You are being weirdly narrow-minded to expect Nami to be shouting "I'm gonna draw the map of the world" as much as Luffy shouts about being Pirate king.

Even outside of their character differences, Nami's dream means something different to her than Luffy's dream means to him. Nami's dream is more of a hobby than a dying creed like Luffy's. The biggest advantage of Nami dream to herself is that it allows her to be useful to the crew and all she really wants is to be with the crew.

There's guys like Brook whose dream isn't even useful to the crew and yet all he also wants is to be with the crew. His dream literally only exists so that he can have an end point to his journey.

From the very get go, the story presents these people's dreams as a being fundamentally different in execution and importance. Franky for example has essentially completed his dream since the Sunny is his dream ship. Everything else Franky does ia because he just likes the crew.

That's the binding thing here. The very existence of the crew in itself is enough to drive all the characters and it's what keeps them together


Even zoro btw. Mihawk beats Zoro and Oda makes sure that the lesson Zoro learns from the defeat is that he needs to travel around the world with the crew in order to get anywhere with his dream.

The very adventure and journey is itself a fulfilment of everybody's dreams and goals and desires. The only thing that would destroy their dreams is to no longer be able to sail as a crew.

So if you want Zoro to lose again supposedly so that his loss can somehow inform his dream then remember the last time he lost. Oda had Zoro lose to Mihawk so that zoro can learn the importance of this adventure with Luffy towards achieving his goal. And its been 1000 chapters and we can all agree that this lesson was very useful and Zoro took it to heart.

Therefore for Zoro to lose again, you would expect a lesson of similar magnitude to be learned, RIGHT? I mean you wouldnt want zoro to lose just so he can learn the lesson that he needs to get a better sword right?

I mean really, try and compare the significance of these scenarios. Mihawk beat Zoro and 400 chapters later that loss informs Zoro's decision to lay down his life for Luffy since he knows the importance of this journey and his goal is now tied to the success of this journey. Then according to you, Zoro loses again in Wano so that a few chapters later he learns that he should get a better sword. Wow. What great storytelling.

This is all forgetting the fact that Zoro winning for 1000 chapters IS THE PROGRESSION of his dream. If you're saying that a loss is what would create progression in his dream then that means the last 1000 chapters of him winning are the opposite right? Him winning is NOT progressing his dream?
How is this uncalled for?

First of all, I have NEVER asked Oda to highlight the crew dreams on same level of highlight as Luffy!
I understand Luffy is main character of all, and that his dream comes first...

But what is truly a crime and a sin for me, is to see people who DID NOT NEED TO EXIST in this story, and take panel/screen time in every arc, when they are irrelevant.... and I'm not talking about characters like "Red Scabbard" whom people are angry at them for some reason... I'm talking about the shittiest of all shittiest character... who exist in the story ONLY for Oda to draw their quirky design while and they fill up the space of many chapters!

Like dude, the amount of irrelevant Samurai characters, or Smile/pleasures panels who didn't need to exist.... Or Oda on a whim, deciding that Big Mom will have 100+ children and he needs to SHOW ALL OF THEM, when ONLY a handful bunch of them are important.... Like, dude, he can still make Big Mom have 25 kids, and her nickname STILL can work as being called "Big Mom"... why the need for 100+ characters!

and no, I'm not asking for Oda to make Nami to shout "I will draw the map of the world"
But I need him to EXPLAIN how the fuck Nami will draw a map of the world, with all the islands, when the crew is NOT visiting each island in the world.... if there is some navigational skills in drawing we don't know, we NEED an explanation for it.... How the fuck is her dream making any sense.... if she didn't visit "North Blue/South Blue/West Blue" and many islands in Grandline are NOT visited cause there are different routes...

What I mean, Oda needs to work on making shit BELIEVABLE and gradual... and not somehow... by EoS... Nami just announces she finished drawing... or just show the aftermath of final arc, a panel of her drawing, and publishing her world map ad taking pics... what the fuck is kind of bullshit is this!

So, you guys would rather have someone like Rebecca have a GREAT resolution for her story arc "father and daughter" with Kyrus... a minor side character, while Main cast, have the WORST unsatisfactory ending?

It's not uncalled for... I am of the opinion that I have complaints. then I should say it, cause otherwise, words cannot spread... I believe in the "spreading the words" in the community until one day those complaints reach the ears of the authors... it's the only way we remind them of WHAT IS IMPORTANT... it's a story about Dreams... that theme is one of the BIGGEST most important aspect of the show

People go on youtube or advertise for the show they love saying "One of the best world building, a great theme of Nakama/friendship/ a Dreams are highlight of the show" yet when the show lacks in those important aspects, we start saying "it's uncalled for" when they are discussed?

- Oda skips fights? yeah, sure let's ignore it's an action shonen manga, and never mention it... after all, it's an adventure story before being action, its important aspect is "dreams/adventure/friendship"

- Oda ignore dreams? yeah sure, let's ignore having the SH crew steps closer every arc for their dreams being highlighted

- Oda shows plotholes? yeah, sure let's turn a blind eye to it

this is actually destroying the series if not addressed and if Oda didn't pay attention to it... I know my voice will not reach him, but at least, it can reach more fandom, and more fandom can talk about it to others, and words can spread gradually until it reaches youtubers, or possibly even One Piece Podcast, or maybe even later people working in magazine... I think voicing your complaints is what is right, not just hiding it
 
J

Jo_Ndule

#28
I would agree if Oda cares about the dreams of the crew

But at this point, the only dream he cares about is One Piece

For god's sake, Oda would rather create hundreds more character with unique design and gags than focus on what he has ALREADY

It's not just with Zoro!

When was the last time, we see Nami mention anything about her map?

When was last time we see Sanji say "oh, this fish, isn't supposed to be located in this area... how?" Type of puzzle for discovering all blue

Every arc Usopp shows progression by doing something brave, Oda retracts it one minute later by having Usopp running away

Chopper and his journey to find a miraculous cure to all diseases... and Oda is missing great chances like Tontatta princess ability Playing a part in Chopper evolution

I'm telling you all, the moment the SHs acheive their dreams in this series, the only three impactful ones will be:
- Luffy
- Robin
- Zoro

Cause as of now, the only sHs with highlights that shows advancement towards their dream are the above three...
Zoro's dream mattered until he placed his dream beneath Luffy's

Only Luffy and Robin gets to progress toward their dreams
Zoro has been facing trash sword users or nerfed ones

Oda isn't doing his dream justice
The others, Oda doesn't even care much about their dreams anymore
 
#29
Zoro's dream mattered until he placed his dream beneath Luffy's

Only Luffy and Robin gets to progress toward their dreams
Zoro has been facing trash sword users or nerfed ones

Oda isn't doing his dream justice
The others, Oda doesn't even care much about their dreams anymore
It's why I said Zoro to a less degree.... Luffy and Robin are the only ones with "Proper build up" thus far
 
#30
How is this uncalled for?

First of all, I have NEVER asked Oda to highlight the crew dreams on same level of highlight as Luffy!
I understand Luffy is main character of all, and that his dream comes first...

But what is truly a crime and a sin for me, is to see people who DID NOT NEED TO EXIST in this story, and take panel/screen time in every arc, when they are irrelevant.... and I'm not talking about characters like "Red Scabbard" whom people are angry at them for some reason... I'm talking about the shittiest of all shittiest character... who exist in the story ONLY for Oda to draw their quirky design while and they fill up the space of many chapters!

Like dude, the amount of irrelevant Samurai characters, or Smile/pleasures panels who didn't need to exist.... Or Oda on a whim, deciding that Big Mom will have 100+ children and he needs to SHOW ALL OF THEM, when ONLY a handful bunch of them are important.... Like, dude, he can still make Big Mom have 25 kids, and her nickname STILL can work as being called "Big Mom"... why the need for 100+ characters!

and no, I'm not asking for Oda to make Nami to shout "I will draw the map of the world"
But I need him to EXPLAIN how the fuck Nami will draw a map of the world, with all the islands, when the crew is NOT visiting each island in the world.... if there is some navigational skills in drawing we don't know, we NEED an explanation for it.... How the fuck is her dream making any sense.... if she didn't visit "North Blue/South Blue/West Blue" and many islands in Grandline are NOT visited cause there are different routes...

What I mean, Oda needs to work on making shit BELIEVABLE and gradual... and not somehow... by EoS... Nami just announces she finished drawing... or just show the aftermath of final arc, a panel of her drawing, and publishing her world map ad taking pics... what the fuck is kind of bullshit is this!

So, you guys would rather have someone like Rebecca have a GREAT resolution for her story arc "father and daughter" with Kyrus... a minor side character, while Main cast, have the WORST unsatisfactory ending?

It's not uncalled for... I am of the opinion that I have complaints. then I should say it, cause otherwise, words cannot spread... I believe in the "spreading the words" in the community until one day those complaints reach the ears of the authors... it's the only way we remind them of WHAT IS IMPORTANT... it's a story about Dreams... that theme is one of the BIGGEST most important aspect of the show

People go on youtube or advertise for the show they love saying "One of the best world building, a great theme of Nakama/friendship/ a Dreams are highlight of the show" yet when the show lacks in those important aspects, we start saying "it's uncalled for" when they are discussed?

- Oda skips fights? yeah, sure let's ignore it's an action shonen manga, and never mention it... after all, it's an adventure story before being action, its important aspect is "dreams/adventure/friendship"

- Oda ignore dreams? yeah sure, let's ignore having the SH crew steps closer every arc for their dreams being highlighted

- Oda shows plotholes? yeah, sure let's turn a blind eye to it

this is actually destroying the series if not addressed and if Oda didn't pay attention to it... I know my voice will not reach him, but at least, it can reach more fandom, and more fandom can talk about it to others, and words can spread gradually until it reaches youtubers, or possibly even One Piece Podcast, or maybe even later people working in magazine... I think voicing your complaints is what is right, not just hiding it
Who said Nami is going to just reveal that she drew a map of every island in the world?

Do you know what the first maps of our world looked like? They barely had anything in them. They were maps of the world only because they had distances between key areas that sailors could use to approximate where they are and where they are going around the world.

The mere fact that Nami can make a measured scaled approximation of key ares like reverse mountain, fish man island and maybe even raftel is enough of an achievement that no body has ever pulled off. There already exists maps of Tottoland and maps of sabaody and maps of the The Justice islands. But there's no map connecting all these plus laugh tale plus logue town in East blue plus Wano. That's what Nami will accomplish.

It seems you all re starting out with a misunderstanding of what these dreams are, and then misunderstanding their importance to the very characters who have them.

Anha? Do you have an assessment about how zoro losing so that he can learn that he should focus in getting a better sword is supposedly the best thing for his dream.

Your main complaints all overy this post are seemingly talking points you are gathering from other people without considering any specifics. Just pick in thing and we can discuss it. Otherwise you are memeing. You are arguing using memes
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#31
Zoro will not lose again

This was the point of promise and so far this is correct

He didn't even lose against Kizaru or Sentomaru since that wasn't an actual fight and he technically didn't lose against Kuma either since Kuma technically went away without defeating him
 
#34
Oda has already teased a Zoro flashback which tend to happen during an emotional moment. I know Oda can set them up after the battle is over such as in TB with Brook and Luffy after MF. Usually, its better do that before a big battle to raise the stakes.

Pacing wise, I can't see Oda throw another flashback now for Marimo in the same act. In addition, Ace's visit in Wano keeps being teased and we have to know how it contributed to Yamato wanting even more to fufill Oden's wish. Luffy's brother is really beloved and it might be a nice way to see him in action one last time. In other words, we might have two flashbacks in wait.
 
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Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#35
You know sanji fans, just because your boy sanji gets beaten a lot in 1v1, doesn't mean other characters will suffer the same fate
Well if not Sanji isn't the weakest SH, so although some characters suffer much worse fates like being forgotten (weak trio) or even mid trio, others will also shine much more :P
 
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