Spoiler One Piece Chapter 999 Spoilers Discussion

[Jo_Ndule]

Xebec=Roger>=Garp>Primebread=Sengoku>Shiki=BigMom>Kaido[/B] back then.

Doesn't make sense

Sengoku was in Prime already alongside Roger and Garp
Wb wasn't.

And Xebec>Roger. Thats why he needed Garp to beta xebec

Now people can stop posting that panel where it shows kaido , bm, wb and xebec vs garp and roger as if the battle was 4 v 2
We know kaido was a rookie...didn't even have a df until after the battle .

The battle went like this probably
Xebec vs garp and Roger
WB vs Rayleigh and scopper
Bm vs Top VAs and marines
Shiki vs rest...

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

You do realise Roger and garp fought rocks, big mom, kaido, whiteboard and Shiki. Logically Roger=garp>rocks>whitebeard>big mom>Shiki>kaido at the time of God valley

We don´t know much the details, what if Whitebeard just stop fighting and don´t help Xebec?
Kaido himself was at best a low top tier and Big mom wasn´t defeated either(otherwise the navy would caught her and she wouldn´t have enough strenght to give Kaido a devilfruit power after Xebec losing). Also we don´t know if Sengoku/Rayleigh und co help Roger out too.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

You do realise Roger and garp fought rocks, big mom, kaido, whiteboard and Shiki. Logically Roger=garp>rocks>whitebeard>big mom>Shiki>kaido at the time of God valley

There's no logic here because we don't know what happened, and considering that Whitebeard was an honourable man and those people were conquerors who would fight each other constantly to the point of destroying their own coleagues achievements (as stated by Sengoku and Whitebeard) it shouldn't surprise us that it wasn't a perfect 2 vs 5 in the slightest.

 

[Garps tekkai]

Like the scaling and it make sense, we know Whitebeard reach his prime later.
In that case how I see the tiering during god valley:

Top top tier Xebec
High top tier Roger
High top tier Garp
High top tier Whitebeard
Mid top tier Big mom
Low top tier Kaido
Low top tier Shiki

I think Roger,Garp,Whitebeard hit the top top tier lvl few years later, I think Big mom hit high top tier also later.

Rocks, Roger and Garp were easily already solid high top tiers, no doubt.
Whitebeard and BM could have lacked awakening for all I know and Whitebeard might not have been as skilled in CoA as he was in the Flash back perhaps.
That's how I can see how Oda could make them all just be low top tiers.

Kaido probably was just a high high tier back then imo.
His base strength was probably lower than it is now and he did not have that "dragon scale" durability yet. He legit could have had the fight of his life against a guy like Katakuri under those circumstances.
Might honestly have been weaker than Hybrid Yamato is now.
Would also fit in with the fact that he was just an apprentice.

And going by the fact that he was highlighted together with BM and WB as that "monster trio", Shiki might legit have been just a high tier. He pretty much stands and falls with his devil fruit. If he did not have it back then, just like Kaido, he could likely have been the weakest.

All that combined would scale pretty well against two high top tiers + whatever they additionally had on their side.

 

[yamashita]

Guys luffy and kaido can't fight yet because we don't know who is kaido really.

 

[Krusher1357]

There's no logic here because we don't know what happened, and considering that Whitebeard was an honourable man and those people were conquerors who would fight each other constantly to the point of destroying their own coleagues achievements (as stated by Sengoku and Whitebeard) it shouldn't surprise us that it wasn't a perfect 2 vs 5 in the slightest.

Not perfect no but the fact that Roger and garp were the winners has to put testiment to their strength. Perhaps Roger=garp=<rocks but the rest are well below

 

[MarineHQ]

@comrade @Bogard
Yo boys since we coming close to the legendary flashback with God valley(I hope it), how you guys would put these characters in powerlvl?
Xebec,Roger,Primebeard,Shiki,Bigmom,Kaido,Garp,Sengoku and the others?
Do you guys believe Xebec,Roger and Primebeard where on their on lvl? Like top top tier?

I personally have it like that:

Xebec > Roger ~ Garp ~ Sengoku >~ WB > Big mom > Kaido

WB and Roger reached Xebecs level while Garp/Sengoku are a tad bit below them. Still, it requires Extreme diff to beat them.

Sengoku and Rayleigh had to be present. It doesn't make sense otherwise unless there was a betrayal from a Rocks member.

 

[Krusher1357]

We don´t know much the details, what if Whitebeard just stop fighting and don´t help Xebec?
Kaido himself was at best a low top tier and Big mom wasn´t defeated either(otherwise the navy would caught her and she wouldn´t have enough strenght to give Kaido a devilfruit power after Xebec losing). Also we don´t know if Sengoku/Rayleigh und co help Roger out too.

Sengoku is out the question, it would've been stated if he was there. Ray is a possibility though

 

[Garps tekkai]

The thing is it pretty much is an Eastern dragon fruit.

Eastern dragons are deeply related to the sea. Even though there are many variants of it, not only they have many traits of water animals (carp scales, catfish whiskers, lobster eyes) but crustaceans (especially lobsters, crayfish, shrimp...) are commonly associated to them in most if not all Eastern cultures, and in One Piece speciffically it's common that they are referred in aquatic contexts (Luffy thinks Momonosuke is an eel when transformed, Neptune's kingdom is called Ryugu and the palace has a huge dragon statue, Alabasta's baths had dragon-shaped fountains...).

There were pretty much two options with the dragon fruit:

1) Make it related to fishes or sea animals in general because of their deep cultural connections.

2) Follow a semantic approach with the "ryu" family as in saurians and make it the mythical model of what some Western readers know as "Dragon Dragon fruit", which so far only contains dinosaurs and pterosaurs.

Odds are Oda just followed the first option and the "Ryu Ryu" family was mistranslated and should have been called "Saurian Saurian" because the author didn't name it because of the ryu as dragon but the "ryu" as a particle in many Japanese reptile names like lizards, dinosaurs or pterosaurs.

Wow okay, thanks for the explanation. That definitely makes sense. So it's more of a lack of knowledge on my side.
Really appreciate it, mate.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

So maybe Kaido is a mythical carp that can turn into a dragon but that would have to be the awakening or something.

But then whats the carp form for? I mean it can't breathe on land right? And it can't swim in the ocean right?

Is the carp form just a meme then? Why even give Kaido a useless form

I think Kaido's fruit is Fish fish mythical Long Model. Thats it. The fish part is there to indicate a reference to the myth and has o bearing on Kaido actually turning into one

 

[WoronoaWoro]

Ace wanted to kill Kaido , he couldnt even kill a sleeping Whitebeard :cantseeme:

 

[Krusher1357]

Ace wanted to kill Kaido , he couldnt even kill a sleeping Whitebeard :cantseeme:

He couldn't even melt a fucking dragon statue properly

 

[Paperchampion23]

Ace wanted to kill Kaido , he couldnt even kill a sleeping Whitebeard :cantseeme:

This was before he fought Whitebeard.

 

[Fallen Prince]

I get the feeling big mom was like mentor to kaido back in rocks days.

That devil fruit probably rescued kaido but i am pretty sure he was angry at linlin because it was likely he hates his own devil fruit ?

 

[kom5]

Like the scaling and it make sense, we know Whitebeard reach his prime later.
In that case how I see the tiering during god valley:

Top top tier Xebec
High top tier Roger
High top tier Garp
High top tier Whitebeard
Mid top tier Big mom
Low top tier Kaido
Low top tier Shiki

I think Roger,Garp,Whitebeard hit the top top tier lvl few years later, I think Big mom hit high top tier also later.

Roger prob did defeat Xebec himself
Garp and the others prob stalled the crew

Roger (healthy) top top tier
Xebec top top tier
the rest ist hight top tier

 

[Buusatan94]

Did some seriously believe that Ace would have been able of having any chance against Kaido ?

 

[Krusher1357]

I get the feeling big mom was like mentor to kaido back in rocks days.

That devil fruit probably rescued kaido but i am pretty sure he was angry at linlin because it was likely he hates his own devil fruit ?

Probs the mother Carmel kicking in, making kids into monsters for her own benefit

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Chapter 1000: Beginning of Kaido sad flashback

Would Fish Kaido be able to swim?

 

[Krusher1357]

Did some seriously believe that Ace would have been able of having any chance against Kaido ?

No, that's why we were pissed at the thought of it

 

[Fallen Prince]

Oda is angling to rocks flashback. I am pretty sure this will connect to kaido's past and how Rocks recruited him .