General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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Carrot was a complete non-entity on Zou and it was the furthest thing from a Strawhat introduction I have ever seen. Her relationship with Pedro was not mentioned once, Wanda was given the emotional hook of begging the Strawhats to help in the flashback, and Inu and Neko were given the link to the overarching Kaido plot by being revealed as Oden’s retainers.
You could genuinely take Carrot out of her introductory arc without a single thing changing. The argument for her literally needs her lack of anything resembling focus on Zou to be a deliberate plot by Oda to try and hide her later showing up on the Sunny.
If on Zou Carrot had been included in the discussions about the Road Poneglyphs and the Minks, had her relationship with Pedro at least hinted at and was the one to have the Jack flashback- to the extent that we could be thinking right now that maybe she’d be the one to beat him this arc- then she’d be in a hell of a lot stronger position than she is now.
You could genuinely take Carrot out of her introductory arc without a single thing changing. The argument for her literally needs her lack of anything resembling focus on Zou to be a deliberate plot by Oda to try and hide her later showing up on the Sunny.
If on Zou Carrot had been included in the discussions about the Road Poneglyphs and the Minks, had her relationship with Pedro at least hinted at and was the one to have the Jack flashback- to the extent that we could be thinking right now that maybe she’d be the one to beat him this arc- then she’d be in a hell of a lot stronger position than she is now.
She already knew about the road ponegliff. But if we're talking about discussions setting up future plot lines, what about Carrot being included in the talk with Nami and Chiffon about meme, Lola and Loki? Carrot now knows all about that and even expressed interest in the giants.
Likewise, Carrot was also included in the talk with the rest of the crew when Kin emon revealed the true story of Wano at the beginning of the arc. The talk that mentioned Oden's life and adventures and what happened to him.
Her relationship to Pedro WAS hinted at.
Every single musketeer uses a sword except Carrot who uses her special gauntlets given to her by Pedro. The guardians use more unconventional weapons.
Every musketeer also wears a blue cloak. Carrot wears green, the same colour of the guardians which also hinted her connection to Pedro.
She's already got a link to Perospero who has relevance to the dawn plot from the Pedro flashback. That's fine. The straw hats never have the most impressive fights when they join. Franky fought Fukuro, Brook didn't even win his fight. Jinbe fought Wadatsumi in a shared fight.
Likewise, Carrot was also included in the talk with the rest of the crew when Kin emon revealed the true story of Wano at the beginning of the arc. The talk that mentioned Oden's life and adventures and what happened to him.
Her relationship to Pedro WAS hinted at.
Every single musketeer uses a sword except Carrot who uses her special gauntlets given to her by Pedro. The guardians use more unconventional weapons.
Every musketeer also wears a blue cloak. Carrot wears green, the same colour of the guardians which also hinted her connection to Pedro.
She's already got a link to Perospero who has relevance to the dawn plot from the Pedro flashback. That's fine. The straw hats never have the most impressive fights when they join. Franky fought Fukuro, Brook didn't even win his fight. Jinbe fought Wadatsumi in a shared fight.
Yama the sheep guy knows about it, it doesn’t make her stand out. Actually including her in the conversation would have made her stand out.
She also expressed interest with the dead walking and talking back on Thriller Bark in the same scene, that doesn’t mean she’s going to hunt down Moria so he can show his fruit off.
It’s comparing apples and oranges. The scene on Zou was the climax of the arc and one of the most important exposition drops in the series. The bath scene was a relatively minor one in WCI. It did not give us any gamechanging information, neither Luffy or Usopp (who will be the main figure in Elbaf) were involved, and Carrot herself has a completely negligible role in the conversation.
A scene where all the majority of the interesting information was omitted from the reader, and where again, Carrot played no role whatsoever. I said I wanted Carrot to have been included in the discussion, maybe I should have specified that means participation. Not floating around in the background occasionally inserting some inane comment about how wonderful adventures are, actually driving the conversation and making us think “yes, Oda is setting this character up to be a Strawhat.” Take Carrot out of the two scenes you’ve mentioned, and nothing changes. The conversation continues in the exact same way. Her presence is completely meaningless.
I can’t see the picture, is it the Zou volume cover with Swirlyhats in the middle and the two Mink sides running parallel to them?
If it is- that’s not counting as a hint. There is no indication that Carrot is using a weapon given to her by Pedro, because there’s no indication Pedro had anything to do with the claws. Nobody looked at that and thought, ah, I bet Pedro was the one to give her those, because we had absolutely no reason to think that, because the two gave no indication that they had anything resembling a more than casual relationship until the chapter Pedro blew himself up.
As to the colour argument- the manga’s in black and white. We didn’t know there was a colour split to how the Minks dressed until WCI had already begun. When reading Zou, we couldn’t tell that Wanda was wearing a blue cape and Carrot a green. We’re looking for things that made Carrot stand out at the time, not retrospectively looking over minutiae to try and answer her lack of presence.
It still displays how Oda failed to make Carrot stand out in the Zou arc though, and how Oda has failed to give Carrot consistent relevance. Imagine if the Zou flashback had been framed from Carrot’s perspective, giving us some insight into her daily life, wish to escape and go on an adventure, a training session or something with Pedro, interrupted by Jack’s invasion, with the final scene being her wondering what Pedro means when he talks about the world waiting for Inu and Neko. And then her getting invited or sneaking into the talk in the Whale Tree and expressing a desire to help in the fight against Kaido, being told no because she’s too young, and then sneaking out and going to the Sunny anyway. That’s a strong setup for Carrot to be an important future character and Strawhat character.
She also expressed interest with the dead walking and talking back on Thriller Bark in the same scene, that doesn’t mean she’s going to hunt down Moria so he can show his fruit off.
It’s comparing apples and oranges. The scene on Zou was the climax of the arc and one of the most important exposition drops in the series. The bath scene was a relatively minor one in WCI. It did not give us any gamechanging information, neither Luffy or Usopp (who will be the main figure in Elbaf) were involved, and Carrot herself has a completely negligible role in the conversation.
A scene where all the majority of the interesting information was omitted from the reader, and where again, Carrot played no role whatsoever. I said I wanted Carrot to have been included in the discussion, maybe I should have specified that means participation. Not floating around in the background occasionally inserting some inane comment about how wonderful adventures are, actually driving the conversation and making us think “yes, Oda is setting this character up to be a Strawhat.” Take Carrot out of the two scenes you’ve mentioned, and nothing changes. The conversation continues in the exact same way. Her presence is completely meaningless.
I can’t see the picture, is it the Zou volume cover with Swirlyhats in the middle and the two Mink sides running parallel to them?
If it is- that’s not counting as a hint. There is no indication that Carrot is using a weapon given to her by Pedro, because there’s no indication Pedro had anything to do with the claws. Nobody looked at that and thought, ah, I bet Pedro was the one to give her those, because we had absolutely no reason to think that, because the two gave no indication that they had anything resembling a more than casual relationship until the chapter Pedro blew himself up.
As to the colour argument- the manga’s in black and white. We didn’t know there was a colour split to how the Minks dressed until WCI had already begun. When reading Zou, we couldn’t tell that Wanda was wearing a blue cape and Carrot a green. We’re looking for things that made Carrot stand out at the time, not retrospectively looking over minutiae to try and answer her lack of presence.
It still displays how Oda failed to make Carrot stand out in the Zou arc though, and how Oda has failed to give Carrot consistent relevance. Imagine if the Zou flashback had been framed from Carrot’s perspective, giving us some insight into her daily life, wish to escape and go on an adventure, a training session or something with Pedro, interrupted by Jack’s invasion, with the final scene being her wondering what Pedro means when he talks about the world waiting for Inu and Neko. And then her getting invited or sneaking into the talk in the Whale Tree and expressing a desire to help in the fight against Kaido, being told no because she’s too young, and then sneaking out and going to the Sunny anyway. That’s a strong setup for Carrot to be an important future character and Strawhat character.
One thing that doesn't work in Carrot's favor is that every SH had some kind of connection to a main villain at one point or another
- Zoro got "captured" by Morgan's son then he defeated Morgan himself
- Kuro worked for and tried to kill Kaya, who was Usopp's friend
- Sanji fed Krieg when he nearly died from starvation and bonded with his right hand man, Gin
- Nami worked for Arlong, who killed her adoptive mother and made Cocoyasi people suffer for years
- Wapol killed Hiluluk, who was Chopper's mentor
- Robin worked for Crocodile, who tried to kill her
- Franky's mentor, Tom, got killed by Spandam, then CP9 tried to kill Iceburg, his best friend, then they captured Franky
- Brook got his shadow stolen by Moria
- Hody tried to take over FI and ruined Jinbe's efforts to bring peace between humans and fishmen
What is Carrot's connection to Kaido ? Ok, one of his subordinates attacked her home and made her people suffer, but that has more to do with Inu and Neko themselves. And their mentor was Oden, whom Kaido killed. Carrot barely knows anything about Kaido, to the point where she's content with fighting a BM pirate that caused Pedro's death. Nothing to do with Kaido himself.
Yamato, on the other hand... Well, I don't think any explanation is needed here.
- Zoro got "captured" by Morgan's son then he defeated Morgan himself
- Kuro worked for and tried to kill Kaya, who was Usopp's friend
- Sanji fed Krieg when he nearly died from starvation and bonded with his right hand man, Gin
- Nami worked for Arlong, who killed her adoptive mother and made Cocoyasi people suffer for years
- Wapol killed Hiluluk, who was Chopper's mentor
- Robin worked for Crocodile, who tried to kill her
- Franky's mentor, Tom, got killed by Spandam, then CP9 tried to kill Iceburg, his best friend, then they captured Franky
- Brook got his shadow stolen by Moria
- Hody tried to take over FI and ruined Jinbe's efforts to bring peace between humans and fishmen
What is Carrot's connection to Kaido ? Ok, one of his subordinates attacked her home and made her people suffer, but that has more to do with Inu and Neko themselves. And their mentor was Oden, whom Kaido killed. Carrot barely knows anything about Kaido, to the point where she's content with fighting a BM pirate that caused Pedro's death. Nothing to do with Kaido himself.
Yamato, on the other hand... Well, I don't think any explanation is needed here.
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The foundation of Luffy’s friendship and potential recruitment with Carrot could have been partially founded on him kicking Jack’s ass, because Jack basically got in Carrot’s way, but instead it was Zunesha who ended up kicking Jack’s ass after Momo told Zunesha to do so. I suppose we’ll just have to see what becomes of the Carrot vs. Perospero situation.
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