Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)
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I found this post in a search unrelated to Kingdom, but since its contents are also somewhat related to kingdom, the way some Kingdom era generals were regarded by later chinese rulers and historians IRL, I thought it would be interesting to post it here.
The info on warring states generals is among the comments, not on the OP.
The info on warring states generals is among the comments, not on the OP.
Ou Sen's relation to the royal family of Qi is entirely plausible, but I don't see how it makes the truth of Ou Hon's parentage even more important. It's already as important as it can get for the leader of a great family with - apparently - only heir to his name.
There's really no time in history close to the current or future timeline in which an Ou Family rebellion can fit within the accepted history..
It makes sense if they were royals subsumed into an expanding Qin. It makes sense if they even had rebellions in the past. Even the relation to Qi can fit here.
What I can't see fitting in the story is a rebellion happening at all, never mind it ending in anything other than the total annihilation of the Ou Family.
It's a cool premise, just not one that can happen in a story that is ostensibly trying to follow the historical records.
I didn't think of it as a move motivated by wanting power, but needing it to never feel so helpless and afraid again.
Mou Ten was close to losing it when the ambush unfolded, and this 10K army took enormous losses. To me, it made sense for him to seek out Ou Sen's tutelage to become stronger.
imo, we should've seen Mou Ten prominently placed among the Ou Sen vassals at the beginning of the arc, followed by a revelation he was the new First General and right hand man of Ou Sen, a change A Kou predictably accepted without complaint.
That debate could happen. The timing would be important it to, because just having the debate would be acknowledging of a real clash.
I don't think Ou Sen would give up and retire into obscurity. I think he would still hold on to some of his ideals as Ryo Fui did, only satisfied that he wouldn't be the one to act on them. Perhaps instead Ou Sen would focus his efforts on making the Ou Family great shareholders in Qin's success and set up them up as a potential dynasty down the like because "foolish kings are inevitable" or whatever.
There's really no time in history close to the current or future timeline in which an Ou Family rebellion can fit within the accepted history..
It makes sense if they were royals subsumed into an expanding Qin. It makes sense if they even had rebellions in the past. Even the relation to Qi can fit here.
What I can't see fitting in the story is a rebellion happening at all, never mind it ending in anything other than the total annihilation of the Ou Family.
It's a cool premise, just not one that can happen in a story that is ostensibly trying to follow the historical records.
I didn't think of it as a move motivated by wanting power, but needing it to never feel so helpless and afraid again.
Mou Ten was close to losing it when the ambush unfolded, and this 10K army took enormous losses. To me, it made sense for him to seek out Ou Sen's tutelage to become stronger.
imo, we should've seen Mou Ten prominently placed among the Ou Sen vassals at the beginning of the arc, followed by a revelation he was the new First General and right hand man of Ou Sen, a change A Kou predictably accepted without complaint.
That debate could happen. The timing would be important it to, because just having the debate would be acknowledging of a real clash.
I don't think Ou Sen would give up and retire into obscurity. I think he would still hold on to some of his ideals as Ryo Fui did, only satisfied that he wouldn't be the one to act on them. Perhaps instead Ou Sen would focus his efforts on making the Ou Family great shareholders in Qin's success and set up them up as a potential dynasty down the like because "foolish kings are inevitable" or whatever.
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Long read but I’m extremely proud of this one lol.
Alright bois. I figured since I’ve never done a full post on this, I should now explain all the reasons I believe that Shibashou will be an end-of-series vassal to Ousen. I actually first posted this theory years back, and as soon as it was revealed that Shibashou and Ousen would directly battle in Hango, the theory gained a lot more traction in my mind. So some historical spoilers but please enjoy:
@Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @MarineHQ @God Buggy @Blackbeard @SakazOuki @FutureWarrior123 @Rumble @Shanks @Extravlad @Xione @RayanOO @Yo Tan Wa @Greenbeard @Bullet @Dark Admiral @Cichy
Alright bois. I figured since I’ve never done a full post on this, I should now explain all the reasons I believe that Shibashou will be an end-of-series vassal to Ousen. I actually first posted this theory years back, and as soon as it was revealed that Shibashou and Ousen would directly battle in Hango, the theory gained a lot more traction in my mind. So some historical spoilers but please enjoy:
I will color explicit historical spoilers red so you guys know exactly when I’m spoiling and when I’m speculating.
1. The first thing to note about Shibashou is that historically, Shibashou is not killed or defeated at all in Zhao, he is simply dismissed from service. Historically we know that Shibashou was Riboku’s deputy in the final days of Zhao, and that he was ultimately dismissed when Riboku was [omitted for big spoilers], and literally nothing else. More on that later.
Now I am reminded of another character similar to Shibashou in Renpa who I think is being handled by Hara similarly to how Shibashou will be handled. Historically, after Renpa fled from Zhao, he never fought any more battles. He lived in Wei for a time, then he lived in Chu, then he died peacefully of old age in his sleep.
This is far from the Renpa Hara has written who actively fought for Wei and still fights for Chu and claims that he will die on the battlefield cough cough EOS Shin cough cough. Sorry, don’t know what came over me there. Anyway, with Renpa, Hara decided it was far more interesting to have Renpa remain an active battlefield commander after his defection from Zhao, and so he continues to write Renpa as an active battlefield commander.
So the precedent is already set for Hara to do something similar for a character who historically does not die in Zhao. This brings us to our next point:
2.The discrepancy between historical Shibashou and manga Shibashou.
Historcially Shibashou is almost the definition of a completely irrelevant commander. I have researched Sima Shang tirelessly and let me tell you, what I’ve posted on Shibashou is literally all I can find. This was certainly no general on par with your historical Renpa’s or Chousha’s or Rinshoujou’s, but manga Shibashou is the second most lengthily hyped general in the history of this manga behind Kou En himself.
So what gives? Why did Hara take such a relatively irrelevant general historically, and choose to make him the template for the enormously hyped Shibashou? Well, you could argue that Shibashou is simply meant to be an overwhelming opponent during the final days of Zhao’s life, but I suspect it’s more than that.
Hara’s Renpa was too great to simply die of old age in Chu, and I’ve long suspected that Hara plans more for his Shibashou than for him to simply ride off into the sunset and die in Seika without ever impacting the manga again after Zhao’s fall. Shibashou is a relatively young man, he could easily live another 30-40 years naturally before dying of old age, and if Shibashou were to continue to be an actively fighting commander in some capacity in that aspect, then by EOS he would be an older, more hardened warrior similar in age to current Bananji, ripe in experience and fully ready to be picked up by some sort of mega-commander at EOS. Which is a good Segway into our next point:
3. Ousen’s propensity for trying to recruit powerful commanders.
There has to be a term for this manga trope, but for now I’ll just call them the recruiter. Let’s define the recruiter as the type of manga character who is always trying to recruit powerful subordinates regardless of where their loyalties might lie. The most obvious example of this in other manga is Blackbeard from One Piece.
Blackbeard asks Ace to join his crew despite Ace hating him, and then Blackbeard asked Luffy to join his crew despite Luffy also hating him. Blackbeard was the exact type of mofo pretimeskip who simply wanted powerful subordinates under his wing that he could use for his own means, and he didn’t particularly care where he got them from.
At first Blackbeard’s attempts at recruiting people ended in hilarious failure, but eventually Oda rewarded Blackbeard with shockingly powerful subordinates like Shiryuu and Aokiji. The mangaka must eventually reward the recruiter’s propensity for recruiting with incredibly powerful subordinates of his own.
Now let’s look at Ousen. Ousen tried to recruit Kyou En which failed hilariously, then he tried to recruit Mouten which failed hilariously, then he tried to recruit f***ing Riboku himself which also of course ended hilariously.
Ousen is currently in the “hilariously failing” stage of his recruiting journey, which should naturally precede the phase where Ousen starts to gain subordinates who almost seem too powerful to actually serve him. With Blackbeard, this was Shiryu and Aokiji. With Ousen…well, who could possibly join him?
Shibashou is far from the only candidate who could potentially join up with EOS Ousen, but again look at everything we know about Shibashou so far: a seemingly irrelevant historical commander, perhaps no different from the likes of historical Enkan or Kotsuminhaku, who Hara took and made a Great Heaven level commander and has stressed the enormous power he possesses for five goddamn years, longer than any other commander in Kingdom but Kou En. A commander who does not die in Zhao, but lives on for potentially the next few decades.
I would argue that Ousen recruiting hugely powerful subordinates isn’t speculation but is almost guaranteed to happen in the future, the only question remaining is the question of who will join him. This brings us to our next point:
4. Shibashou’s loyalties.
So we have to ask ourselves, why would Shibashou even consider joining up with Ousen? And what might restrict him from joining up with Ousen? At first glance, it might appear that Shibashou cares only for Seika and nothing else but I would argue this is somewhat of a red herring. We can also gleam other aspects of Shibashou’s personality based on the details Hara has given us:
-Shibashou hates the Zhao court, probably for their incompetence, corruption, cruelty, and lack of empathy for anyone other than themselves.
-Shibashou also seems to heavily respect Riboku, undoubtedly for Riboku’s own knowledge and prowess at war.
So Shibashou hates incompetence, corruption, decadence, etc…and he really respects commanders who warrant respect through their actions and merit. There is one other thing Shibashou hates strongly enough to actually take his big gorilla ass from Seika and fight:
-Qin. Undoubtedly for their invading, innocent slaughtering, and war mongering tendencies.
So Shibashou holds no loyalty to any state in particular, only to his beloved Seika, and hates Qin enough to literally leave Seika to kill them.
So in order for Shibashou to consider joining up with someone like Ousen, Ousen would need to be someone who opposes a force like Qin. Now for those of you who actually know the trajectory Ei Sei’s story will take in the future, some giant fucking alarms should be ringing off in your mind right now about why someone like Shibashou would continue to wish to oppose Qin in the future, but I’m actually not going to spoil anything about Sei or Qin in the future. For now, let’s just continue to discuss things we know:
5. Ousen’s own loyalties
It should be clear by this point that Ousen holds no particular loyalty to Qin so I won’t discuss that in depth. What I will say is that Ousen and Shibashou already seem to ideologically agree about both Qin and Zhao:
This cannot be far from what Shibashou believes about states like Qin and Zhao. I’ve always seen Ousen as someone who wants to unify China before claiming the unified Kingdom for himself. If you’re Ousen, why start your own Kingdom from scratch and then have 7 other super Kingdoms to deal with, when instead you could high jack one of those super kingdoms and use it to eliminate the rest of them?
For Shibashou to even consider Ousen, Shibashou would need to first believe that Ousen is ideologically opposed to Qin and her war mongering tendencies…which Ousen absolutely seems to be, he is simply using Qin to ripen China for his own eventual rule. That’s the plan, anyway.
6. Ousen vs Shibashou at Hango
And now we reach Hango, where Shibashou and Ousen are currently on a crash course for one another. I think Hara will use this current battle to simply introduce each man to the other. Ousen will identify Shibashou as an enormous powerhouse, undoubtedly someone he’ll want in his own service, and Shibashou will identify Ousen as an intellect on a similar level to Riboku
himself, someone Shibashou already respects. I doubt Ousen will come within speaking proximity of Shibashou at Hango because Ousen probably won’t want none of that, but this battle will at least familiarize Shibashou and Ousen with each other the way battles familiarize enemy generals and will put Shibashou and Ousen on “speaking terms” for later when Ousen can approach Shibashou first through messages and diplomats rather than face to face meetings, eventually wearing Shibashou down into his service.
All Ousen would really need to do is slowly but surely convince Shibashou that he is actually an enemy of the evil Qin and that only by joining forces under a competent King (Ousen) can the two of them hope to succeed where Riboku and Shibashou failed. And on that subject:
7. Paralleling Ousen and Riboku
This is a more brief point but Ousen and Riboku are two characters who Hara has paralleled with each other on many occasions, and having both characters essentially have to work to obtain Shibashou as a vassal would be an extension of that Parrallel.
EDIT: It just keeps coming!
ANOTHER EDIT: THE TRAIN KEEPS ON ACOMIN!!!!
………
And that about does it for now. Obviously the Ousen as the final villain that @God Buggy just posted bleeds into this theory a bit and I think it works extremely well.
What do you guys think?
1. The first thing to note about Shibashou is that historically, Shibashou is not killed or defeated at all in Zhao, he is simply dismissed from service. Historically we know that Shibashou was Riboku’s deputy in the final days of Zhao, and that he was ultimately dismissed when Riboku was [omitted for big spoilers], and literally nothing else. More on that later.
Now I am reminded of another character similar to Shibashou in Renpa who I think is being handled by Hara similarly to how Shibashou will be handled. Historically, after Renpa fled from Zhao, he never fought any more battles. He lived in Wei for a time, then he lived in Chu, then he died peacefully of old age in his sleep.
This is far from the Renpa Hara has written who actively fought for Wei and still fights for Chu and claims that he will die on the battlefield cough cough EOS Shin cough cough. Sorry, don’t know what came over me there. Anyway, with Renpa, Hara decided it was far more interesting to have Renpa remain an active battlefield commander after his defection from Zhao, and so he continues to write Renpa as an active battlefield commander.
So the precedent is already set for Hara to do something similar for a character who historically does not die in Zhao. This brings us to our next point:
2.The discrepancy between historical Shibashou and manga Shibashou.
Historcially Shibashou is almost the definition of a completely irrelevant commander. I have researched Sima Shang tirelessly and let me tell you, what I’ve posted on Shibashou is literally all I can find. This was certainly no general on par with your historical Renpa’s or Chousha’s or Rinshoujou’s, but manga Shibashou is the second most lengthily hyped general in the history of this manga behind Kou En himself.
So what gives? Why did Hara take such a relatively irrelevant general historically, and choose to make him the template for the enormously hyped Shibashou? Well, you could argue that Shibashou is simply meant to be an overwhelming opponent during the final days of Zhao’s life, but I suspect it’s more than that.
Hara’s Renpa was too great to simply die of old age in Chu, and I’ve long suspected that Hara plans more for his Shibashou than for him to simply ride off into the sunset and die in Seika without ever impacting the manga again after Zhao’s fall. Shibashou is a relatively young man, he could easily live another 30-40 years naturally before dying of old age, and if Shibashou were to continue to be an actively fighting commander in some capacity in that aspect, then by EOS he would be an older, more hardened warrior similar in age to current Bananji, ripe in experience and fully ready to be picked up by some sort of mega-commander at EOS. Which is a good Segway into our next point:
3. Ousen’s propensity for trying to recruit powerful commanders.
There has to be a term for this manga trope, but for now I’ll just call them the recruiter. Let’s define the recruiter as the type of manga character who is always trying to recruit powerful subordinates regardless of where their loyalties might lie. The most obvious example of this in other manga is Blackbeard from One Piece.
Blackbeard asks Ace to join his crew despite Ace hating him, and then Blackbeard asked Luffy to join his crew despite Luffy also hating him. Blackbeard was the exact type of mofo pretimeskip who simply wanted powerful subordinates under his wing that he could use for his own means, and he didn’t particularly care where he got them from.
At first Blackbeard’s attempts at recruiting people ended in hilarious failure, but eventually Oda rewarded Blackbeard with shockingly powerful subordinates like Shiryuu and Aokiji. The mangaka must eventually reward the recruiter’s propensity for recruiting with incredibly powerful subordinates of his own.
Now let’s look at Ousen. Ousen tried to recruit Kyou En which failed hilariously, then he tried to recruit Mouten which failed hilariously, then he tried to recruit f***ing Riboku himself which also of course ended hilariously.
Ousen is currently in the “hilariously failing” stage of his recruiting journey, which should naturally precede the phase where Ousen starts to gain subordinates who almost seem too powerful to actually serve him. With Blackbeard, this was Shiryu and Aokiji. With Ousen…well, who could possibly join him?
Shibashou is far from the only candidate who could potentially join up with EOS Ousen, but again look at everything we know about Shibashou so far: a seemingly irrelevant historical commander, perhaps no different from the likes of historical Enkan or Kotsuminhaku, who Hara took and made a Great Heaven level commander and has stressed the enormous power he possesses for five goddamn years, longer than any other commander in Kingdom but Kou En. A commander who does not die in Zhao, but lives on for potentially the next few decades.
I would argue that Ousen recruiting hugely powerful subordinates isn’t speculation but is almost guaranteed to happen in the future, the only question remaining is the question of who will join him. This brings us to our next point:
4. Shibashou’s loyalties.
So we have to ask ourselves, why would Shibashou even consider joining up with Ousen? And what might restrict him from joining up with Ousen? At first glance, it might appear that Shibashou cares only for Seika and nothing else but I would argue this is somewhat of a red herring. We can also gleam other aspects of Shibashou’s personality based on the details Hara has given us:
-Shibashou hates the Zhao court, probably for their incompetence, corruption, cruelty, and lack of empathy for anyone other than themselves.
-Shibashou also seems to heavily respect Riboku, undoubtedly for Riboku’s own knowledge and prowess at war.
So Shibashou hates incompetence, corruption, decadence, etc…and he really respects commanders who warrant respect through their actions and merit. There is one other thing Shibashou hates strongly enough to actually take his big gorilla ass from Seika and fight:
-Qin. Undoubtedly for their invading, innocent slaughtering, and war mongering tendencies.
So Shibashou holds no loyalty to any state in particular, only to his beloved Seika, and hates Qin enough to literally leave Seika to kill them.
So in order for Shibashou to consider joining up with someone like Ousen, Ousen would need to be someone who opposes a force like Qin. Now for those of you who actually know the trajectory Ei Sei’s story will take in the future, some giant fucking alarms should be ringing off in your mind right now about why someone like Shibashou would continue to wish to oppose Qin in the future, but I’m actually not going to spoil anything about Sei or Qin in the future. For now, let’s just continue to discuss things we know:
5. Ousen’s own loyalties
It should be clear by this point that Ousen holds no particular loyalty to Qin so I won’t discuss that in depth. What I will say is that Ousen and Shibashou already seem to ideologically agree about both Qin and Zhao:
This cannot be far from what Shibashou believes about states like Qin and Zhao. I’ve always seen Ousen as someone who wants to unify China before claiming the unified Kingdom for himself. If you’re Ousen, why start your own Kingdom from scratch and then have 7 other super Kingdoms to deal with, when instead you could high jack one of those super kingdoms and use it to eliminate the rest of them?
For Shibashou to even consider Ousen, Shibashou would need to first believe that Ousen is ideologically opposed to Qin and her war mongering tendencies…which Ousen absolutely seems to be, he is simply using Qin to ripen China for his own eventual rule. That’s the plan, anyway.
6. Ousen vs Shibashou at Hango
And now we reach Hango, where Shibashou and Ousen are currently on a crash course for one another. I think Hara will use this current battle to simply introduce each man to the other. Ousen will identify Shibashou as an enormous powerhouse, undoubtedly someone he’ll want in his own service, and Shibashou will identify Ousen as an intellect on a similar level to Riboku
himself, someone Shibashou already respects. I doubt Ousen will come within speaking proximity of Shibashou at Hango because Ousen probably won’t want none of that, but this battle will at least familiarize Shibashou and Ousen with each other the way battles familiarize enemy generals and will put Shibashou and Ousen on “speaking terms” for later when Ousen can approach Shibashou first through messages and diplomats rather than face to face meetings, eventually wearing Shibashou down into his service.
All Ousen would really need to do is slowly but surely convince Shibashou that he is actually an enemy of the evil Qin and that only by joining forces under a competent King (Ousen) can the two of them hope to succeed where Riboku and Shibashou failed. And on that subject:
7. Paralleling Ousen and Riboku
This is a more brief point but Ousen and Riboku are two characters who Hara has paralleled with each other on many occasions, and having both characters essentially have to work to obtain Shibashou as a vassal would be an extension of that Parrallel.
EDIT: It just keeps coming!
ANOTHER EDIT: THE TRAIN KEEPS ON ACOMIN!!!!
………
And that about does it for now. Obviously the Ousen as the final villain that @God Buggy just posted bleeds into this theory a bit and I think it works extremely well.
What do you guys think?
@Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @MarineHQ @God Buggy @Blackbeard @SakazOuki @FutureWarrior123 @Rumble @Shanks @Extravlad @Xione @RayanOO @Yo Tan Wa @Greenbeard @Bullet @Dark Admiral @Cichy
It was a great read.
Btw. what do you guys think about theory that Ousen will recruit Yan Ju / Kan Shu as a replacement for Akou?
-Kan Shu is from Qi, but at some point switches sides to Zhao. That alone tells us he doesn't have a lot of patriotism and thus is easy target for recruitment.
-He briefly replaces Riboku and Shibashou alongside Zhao Cong, but is then defeated and flees. As far as I know it's unclear what happened to him after. Him loosing to Ousen doesn't nececairly mean he's weak, he might still put up a fight.
-Kan Shu is from Qi, but at some point switches sides to Zhao. That alone tells us he doesn't have a lot of patriotism and thus is easy target for recruitment.
-He briefly replaces Riboku and Shibashou alongside Zhao Cong, but is then defeated and flees. As far as I know it's unclear what happened to him after. Him loosing to Ousen doesn't nececairly mean he's weak, he might still put up a fight.
I don't think Ou Sen will recruit/add anyone that isn't already of Qin.
The Ou Family is supposed to be a large and influential family that has produced 1/3 of all 6GGs. As odd as it is we haven't seen more of them, I don't put it past Hara to introduce new members to join Ou Sen.
Perhaps he'll add relatives from his late wife's clan too (I suspect Kan Jou might be branch member).
I think expecting foreign assets to join him is setting yourself up for disappointment.
The Ou Family is supposed to be a large and influential family that has produced 1/3 of all 6GGs. As odd as it is we haven't seen more of them, I don't put it past Hara to introduce new members to join Ou Sen.
Perhaps he'll add relatives from his late wife's clan too (I suspect Kan Jou might be branch member).
I think expecting foreign assets to join him is setting yourself up for disappointment.
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After what happened i think it's more likely they kill SBS
Ousen army has to be more focused on revenge than becoming Seika's ally
Ousen destroys Shi Bum Shou's kingdom as a stepping stone to create his own.
Ouhon will act as his father's right hand man in the rematch and makes a hole in the gorilla's chest.
Next invasion will be an Ousen army revenge arc.
Ousen army has to be more focused on revenge than becoming Seika's ally
Ousen destroys Shi Bum Shou's kingdom as a stepping stone to create his own.
Ouhon will act as his father's right hand man in the rematch and makes a hole in the gorilla's chest.
Next invasion will be an Ousen army revenge arc.
If I remember correctly, Ouhon (Wang Ben) was the one who leads the campaign to take down the state of Dai right? If so then Ouhon will finally have his Great Heavens opponent, Ouhon vs Shibashou.
After the fall of Zhao and Riboku getting executed, I'm pretty sure Riboku's remnants like Futei and Kaine will join up with Ka to the new state of Dai. This is if Bananji and Shunsuiju dies during the final battle of Zhao.
Shibashou will probably become Ka's followers in exchange for the safety of the people of Seika in the new state of Dai. Then we will have Ka as the king of Dai and the Three Great Heavens of Dai, Shibashou, Futei and MY MAN:
I think Kisui will also join up with Ka for the reason as Shibashou, the safety of his people. I'm not sure if I want Ouhon to kill Shibashou in the war of Da though. Cuz I also like the theory of Shibashou joining Ousen. But who knows?
After the fall of Zhao and Riboku getting executed, I'm pretty sure Riboku's remnants like Futei and Kaine will join up with Ka to the new state of Dai. This is if Bananji and Shunsuiju dies during the final battle of Zhao.
Shibashou will probably become Ka's followers in exchange for the safety of the people of Seika in the new state of Dai. Then we will have Ka as the king of Dai and the Three Great Heavens of Dai, Shibashou, Futei and MY MAN:
I think Kisui will also join up with Ka for the reason as Shibashou, the safety of his people. I'm not sure if I want Ouhon to kill Shibashou in the war of Da though. Cuz I also like the theory of Shibashou joining Ousen. But who knows?
If I remember correctly, Ouhon (Wang Ben) was the one who leads the campaign to take down the state of Dai right? If so then Ouhon will finally have his Great Heavens opponent, Ouhon vs Shibashou.
After the fall of Zhao and Riboku getting executed, I'm pretty sure Riboku's remnants like Futei and Kaine will join up with Ka to the new state of Dai. This is if Bananji and Shunsuiju dies during the final battle of Zhao.
Shibashou will probably become Ka's followers in exchange for the safety of the people of Seika in the new state of Dai. Then we will have Ka as the king of Dai and the Three Great Heavens of Dai, Shibashou, Futei and MY MAN:
I think Kisui will also join up with Ka for the reason as Shibashou, the safety of his people. I'm not sure if I want Ouhon to kill Shibashou in the war of Da though. Cuz I also like the theory of Shibashou joining Ousen. But who knows?
After the fall of Zhao and Riboku getting executed, I'm pretty sure Riboku's remnants like Futei and Kaine will join up with Ka to the new state of Dai. This is if Bananji and Shunsuiju dies during the final battle of Zhao.
Shibashou will probably become Ka's followers in exchange for the safety of the people of Seika in the new state of Dai. Then we will have Ka as the king of Dai and the Three Great Heavens of Dai, Shibashou, Futei and MY MAN:
I think Kisui will also join up with Ka for the reason as Shibashou, the safety of his people. I'm not sure if I want Ouhon to kill Shibashou in the war of Da though. Cuz I also like the theory of Shibashou joining Ousen. But who knows?
