Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)
- Thread starter Xione
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Riboku will always remain at the top.
His portrayal is unlike anyone else's and I don’t see a single character matching it in the future.
He alone is acknowledged as a bigger obstacle to the unification than the entire state of Chu by Ouken and Sei.
Chu will have an all-star line-up of great generals but none will be on Riboku's level individually.
His portrayal is unlike anyone else's and I don’t see a single character matching it in the future.
He alone is acknowledged as a bigger obstacle to the unification than the entire state of Chu by Ouken and Sei.
Chu will have an all-star line-up of great generals but none will be on Riboku's level individually.
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An Ou Family Rebellion could occur but would have to be stated to be suppressed from the chronicles. imo it's probably the most exciting premise Kingdom could go for, but I think it's too massive of a departure from the accepted history for Hara to go for it.
I'll save the full theory for another post but: Ou Sen cannot become king unless he usurps Sei or strikes out and carves a new kingdom of his own - which would likely have to be Ou lands, i.e. within Qin's borders and therefore indefensible considering Tou and Yo Tan Wa have already declared their intentions in the event of rebellion, and Mou Bu is likely oppose him on his honour as First Great alone, if not for family interest, debt to Ou Ki, and consideration for his son position as one the king's chosen.
Ou Sen cannot hope to win against these odds with only Ou Hon at his side.
There are only two paths to secure victory here, and theoretically he could travel both. In recruiting Mou Ten he stands to gain a rare asset and the possibility to at least neutralise Mou Bu.
If he can recruit Shin, a man capable of slaying Mou Bu, and the likes of his powerful army that includes equal tier rare talent Kyou Kai and Shou Hei Kun's student Ka Ryo Ten. He also gets potential levers to manipulate with Tou and Yo Tan Wa through their relationship with Shin and trust in his judgment.
I don't see either working out for Ou Sen, so I don't see him ever actually taking up arms against the throne. I think his defeat will come through his failure to convince Sei's allies to turn against him.
I'll save the full theory for another post but: Ou Sen cannot become king unless he usurps Sei or strikes out and carves a new kingdom of his own - which would likely have to be Ou lands, i.e. within Qin's borders and therefore indefensible considering Tou and Yo Tan Wa have already declared their intentions in the event of rebellion, and Mou Bu is likely oppose him on his honour as First Great alone, if not for family interest, debt to Ou Ki, and consideration for his son position as one the king's chosen.
Ou Sen cannot hope to win against these odds with only Ou Hon at his side.
There are only two paths to secure victory here, and theoretically he could travel both. In recruiting Mou Ten he stands to gain a rare asset and the possibility to at least neutralise Mou Bu.
If he can recruit Shin, a man capable of slaying Mou Bu, and the likes of his powerful army that includes equal tier rare talent Kyou Kai and Shou Hei Kun's student Ka Ryo Ten. He also gets potential levers to manipulate with Tou and Yo Tan Wa through their relationship with Shin and trust in his judgment.
I don't see either working out for Ou Sen, so I don't see him ever actually taking up arms against the throne. I think his defeat will come through his failure to convince Sei's allies to turn against him.
The very first arc of the series had Sei's brother taking over the throne for what gotta be like months, Sei becoming a runaway chased by the Qin army, allying with the mountain tribes, attacking the capital to take back the throne, and then Sei just going "we'll keep this secret" to explain why no historical record brought it up. The precedent is there.
The very first arc of the series had Sei's brother taking over the throne for what gotta be like months, Sei becoming a runaway chased by the Qin army, allying with the mountain tribes, attacking the capital to take back the throne, and then Sei just going "we'll keep this secret" to explain why no historical record brought it up. The precedent is there.
have you heard of theories that Ousen is connected to the Qi royal family and is a direct descendant of the family who ruled Qi as a superstate?
If parts of Qi joins him and he starts a rebellion, it increases the chances of a coup happening. Plus if Sei goes crazy/evil like you predict, it could mean lots of lords/generals will flock to Ousen
tag me when do you write out the full theory btw
my personal pet theory has been that Ousen will end up recruiting generals from the 6 fallen states to support him.
I believe Mouten ends up as prime minister of Qin? I can't see him getting recruited for that reason.
that would be kind of underwhelming but it is possible
who is arguing that? lol
obviously Ouhon would play his part in a hypothetical Ousen betraying Qin storyline
Shin vs Ousen as a callback to Duke vs Gokei would be perfection
If parts of Qi joins him and he starts a rebellion, it increases the chances of a coup happening. Plus if Sei goes crazy/evil like you predict, it could mean lots of lords/generals will flock to Ousen
tag me when do you write out the full theory btw
my personal pet theory has been that Ousen will end up recruiting generals from the 6 fallen states to support him.
I believe Mouten ends up as prime minister of Qin? I can't see him getting recruited for that reason.
that would be kind of underwhelming but it is possible
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Nah man, Ouhon who's actually the real protagonist all along will secure the greatest achievement in the climax of the story 
obviously Ouhon would play his part in a hypothetical Ousen betraying Qin storyline
Shin vs Ousen as a callback to Duke vs Gokei would be perfection
Guys I think I have WAY underestimated just how big and long the Chu arc is going to be.
There will likely be three major battles just like against Zhao and besides the big players mentioned in historical records such as Kouen, SHK, Ousen, Moubu, Shin, Mouten there will also be Karin, Rien, Renpa, Man'U etc
Also both sides will pull up with numbers that even greatly surpass Zhao at Gi'an.
OP will end way before Kingdom
There will likely be three major battles just like against Zhao and besides the big players mentioned in historical records such as Kouen, SHK, Ousen, Moubu, Shin, Mouten there will also be Karin, Rien, Renpa, Man'U etc
Also both sides will pull up with numbers that even greatly surpass Zhao at Gi'an.
OP will end way before Kingdom
It would be nonsense to claim that Ouhon takes no part in defeating his father especially when the plot point that Ousen refuses to acknowledge him is brought up several times.
Didn't Ousen die of old age years after China was unified ?
I believe Renpa died peacefully too. You think Hara is changing that to give them heroic cool deaths in battle ?
Shin gotta slay Renpa during the Chu arc and Ouhon defeating Ousen in a strategic battle would be fitting too.
Didn't Ousen die of old age years after China was unified ?
I believe Renpa died peacefully too. You think Hara is changing that to give them heroic cool deaths in battle ?
Shin gotta slay Renpa during the Chu arc and Ouhon defeating Ousen in a strategic battle would be fitting too.
You were talking about history first, so that's what I responded to. If you want to make predictions about the manga, that's no longer history. Shin and Ouhon invaded Qi together BTW.
Everything else is just wild speculation, and thinking that Hara is going to suddenly make Ouhon more important than the main character is just wishful thinking.
These predictions about Ousen being final boss in Qi are just really iffy. Ousen continued to command troops for Sei after unification, he led 500k against the Yue tribes to expand Qin territory in the far south. Why would Sei continue giving large troop commands to a known traitor? These supposedly "based on history" predictions have no consistency whatsoever.
Everything else is just wild speculation, and thinking that Hara is going to suddenly make Ouhon more important than the main character is just wishful thinking.
These predictions about Ousen being final boss in Qi are just really iffy. Ousen continued to command troops for Sei after unification, he led 500k against the Yue tribes to expand Qin territory in the far south. Why would Sei continue giving large troop commands to a known traitor? These supposedly "based on history" predictions have no consistency whatsoever.
Why make the greatest part about Ousen’s character the fact that he wishes to create his own Kingdom and that he doesn't have an ounce of loyalty to Qin ?
He even tried recruiting Qin's biggest enemy 2 campaigns ago.
I believe in History records it was made undeniably clear that Sei had concerns regarding Ousen’s loyalty and hesitated to provide him with the requested numbers for the Chu campaign at first.
Yes Ousen remained Loyal in history but isn't that all the author freedom that Hara needs ?
Who wants the last arc of Kingdom to be a mid battle where Qin just rolls over Qi?
He even tried recruiting Qin's biggest enemy 2 campaigns ago.
I believe in History records it was made undeniably clear that Sei had concerns regarding Ousen’s loyalty and hesitated to provide him with the requested numbers for the Chu campaign at first.
Yes Ousen remained Loyal in history but isn't that all the author freedom that Hara needs ?
Who wants the last arc of Kingdom to be a mid battle where Qin just rolls over Qi?
Who wants the last arc of Kingdom to be about how Ouhon is the greatest thing since sliced bread and Shin is left in the dust by him? Am I to believe that Hara is going to humiliate his MC in the last arc like that? Yeah, I don't think so.
Sei would have concerns about any general with a super large army, as every chinese emperor in history would about an overmighty subject, like Liu Bang with Han Xin, Huan Wen in the Jin dynasty and others.
Ousen doesn't need to be in Qi at all. He can rebel after unification is completed to try to take the whole country away from Sei but be defeated by Shin, thus Shin becomes the Greatest under the heavens. Then the rebellion gets hushed uplike Seikyou's first rebellion or whatever. Though that would still leave the problem later of why would Sei continue using Ousen against the Yue if the guy was a known traitor.
But one thing's for sure, if Ousen ever rebels it will be Shin who will defeat him, not fucking Ouhon.
Sei would have concerns about any general with a super large army, as every chinese emperor in history would about an overmighty subject, like Liu Bang with Han Xin, Huan Wen in the Jin dynasty and others.
Ousen doesn't need to be in Qi at all. He can rebel after unification is completed to try to take the whole country away from Sei but be defeated by Shin, thus Shin becomes the Greatest under the heavens. Then the rebellion gets hushed uplike Seikyou's first rebellion or whatever. Though that would still leave the problem later of why would Sei continue using Ousen against the Yue if the guy was a known traitor.
But one thing's for sure, if Ousen ever rebels it will be Shin who will defeat him, not fucking Ouhon.