Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)

IT KEEPS ON COMING BOIS!!!

So I meant to do a post on this ever since 786, but I kept getting tied up.

So if you guys recall in my Shibashou as Ousen’s vassal theory (I made need to just create a separate thread for this theory), one of the things I said there is that Shibashou seemed to be someone who wasn’t even open to the notion of speaking to Ousen right now, and that Ousen would have to “wear down” Shibashou into his services via messengers to Seika.

WELL, in 786, we get this:



And we find out that Shibashou is already open to the possibility of talking things out with his enemies, believing that people only take up weapons because they are cowards. A surprisingly pacifist philosophy from a martial 3GH, Hara is already giving my man some depth.

But anyway, I’m going to count this as a W for the theory because Shibashou doesn’t really need to be persuaded to actually speak with Ousen, he might be open to that possibility already, and may remain open to it so long as Ousen doesn’t do anything particularly heinous (he won’t).

IT JUST KEEPS COMING!!!

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚
Tbh with you I’m no longer on board with this theory, it can happen but I think it’d be a poor choice.
Sbs is too much Seika, and Ousen is a cold hearted meticulous machine, the chemistry is too far off. Shibashou needs to convince Ousen he’s someone willing to work under him and I don’t think SBS has it in his heart, even for Seika. He is the fire of Seika as they said, and joining the invader would kill Seika itself, albeit worse than actual death.
They are simply too proud
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Tbh with you I’m no longer on board with this theory, it can happen but I think it’d be a poor choice.
Sbs is too much Seika, and Ousen is a cold hearted meticulous machine, the chemistry is too far off. Shibashou needs to convince Ousen he’s someone willing to work under him and I don’t think SBS has it in his heart, even for Seika. He is the fire of Seika as they said, and joining the invader would kill Seika itself, albeit worse than actual death.
They are simply too proud
Wait what? When did I say Shibashou would join Qin lol? I think you misunderstood the theory:

The theory is that Shibashou will join Ousen as Qi’s EOS King in order to oppose the invaders, Qin lol.

Maybe I need to make that clearer in the OP. There is zero way Shibashou joins Qin lol.
 
Wait what? When did I say Shibashou would join Qin lol? I think you misunderstood the theory:

The theory is that Shibashou will join Ousen as Qi’s EOS King in order to oppose the invaders, Qin lol.

Maybe I need to make that clearer in the OP. There is zero way Shibashou joins Qin lol.
You said he joins after Zhao campaign ends no? Might be mixing things up now
Or is it only at EoS, after the Chu campaign
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
You said he joins after Zhao campaign ends no? Might be mixing things up now
Or is it only at EoS, after the Chu campaign
Yeah I will definitely need to clarify what I am saying lol.

So to be clear, there is a zero percent chance Shibashou joins Qin lol. Not a chance in hell Shibashou joins the warmongers currently threatening Seika.

The theory is that Ousen is the final villain of this manga, and that he will lead the final state that opposes the Qin Empire (Qi) as their King. This is when I believe Shibashou joins Ousen, when he is effectively the final villain lol. I do also like @Cichy ’s theory that Shibashou is a Great Heaven of Dai, but Dai falls a year before the final Qi war. So Shibashou could still theoretically join up with Ousen to oppose Qin at that time while still serving Ka in Dai.
 
Yeah I will definitely need to clarify what I am saying lol.

So to be clear, there is a zero percent chance Shibashou joins Qin lol. Not a chance in hell Shibashou joins the warmongers currently threatening Seika.

The theory is that Ousen is the final villain of this manga, and that he will lead the final state that opposes the Qin Empire (Qi) as their King. This is when I believe Shibashou joins Ousen, when he is effectively the final villain lol. I do also like @Cichy ’s theory that Shibashou is a Great Heaven of Dai, but Dai falls a year before the final Qi war. So Shibashou could still theoretically join up with Ousen to oppose Qin at that time while still serving Ka in Dai.
Aight I hear ya, this is shaping up pretty nicely now
Final villain Ousen would be absolute peak, he needs generals like this
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Aight I hear ya, this is shaping up pretty nicely now
Final villain Ousen would be absolute peak, he needs generals like this
I found an absolutely fascinating fact about Wang Jian (irl Ousen) the other day.

Apparently, when Wang Jian lead the 600k Qin army into Chu, Ei Sei was actually shitting himself constantly because he was scared Wang Jian was going to use those 600k men to rebel from Qin. Irl Wang Jian constantly sent messengers back to Qin so Ei Sei would feel comfortable that he wasn’t going to rebel, but I thought this was an incredible detail.

And it further reinforces why Hara is portraying Ousen as someone who wants his own Kingdom and who Shobunkun felt it necessary to say “no rebelling” directly to Ousen when they made the 6GG system, lol

And it further reinforces that manga Ousen will someday indeed betray Qin outright. Lol
 
I found an absolutely fascinating fact about Wang Jian (irl Ousen) the other day.

Apparently, when Wang Jian lead the 600k Qin army into Chu, Ei Sei was actually shitting himself constantly because he was scared Wang Jian was going to use those 600k men to rebel from Qin. Irl Wang Jian constantly sent messengers back to Qin so Ei Sei would feel comfortable that he wasn’t going to rebel, but I thought this was an incredible detail.

And it further reinforces why Hara is portraying Ousen as someone who wants his own Kingdom and who Shobunkun felt it necessary to say “no rebelling” directly to Ousen when they made the 6GG system, lol

And it further reinforces that manga Ousen will someday indeed betray Qin outright. Lol
“Wang Jian was a descendant of a royal family member of the Zhou Dynasty; however, when he was born, his family had already moved to State Qin and lived as ordinary civilians.“

“At that time, these 600,000 soldiers were almost the entire army of the State Qin.

This would be huge gambling for the King of Qin.

An invincible marshal leading a country's all soldiers marching toward another kingdom probably for years could be suspicious and worrisome for a king.

Hence, before Wang Jian set off to the Chu, he had pleaded several times to make the king promise him lots of farmlands and money.

He did this to show the king that he was only interested in being wealthy and having a happy life with his family instead of any political or military power.”

Off topic but this is interesting
”Wang Jian also forbade his descendants from joining the military anymore because he believed that he and his son had already taken away many people’s lives on the battlefields. This should not become a family tradition.”
Manga Ousen seems to be very different from Wang Jian
 
Off topic but this is interesting
”Wang Jian also forbade his descendants from joining the military anymore because he believed that he and his son had already taken away many people’s lives on the battlefields. This should not become a family tradition.”
Manga Ousen seems to be very different from Wang Jian
Manga Ousen be like "If I kill everybody then who am I going to rule over? :pepehands:"
 

TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'𝖘 𝕾𝖕𝖆𝖜𝖓
Friendly reminder that Hara has drawn Sei’s mother having sex with multiple men for political gain on panel, lol

Hara has also drawn innocent women, children, and babies being slaughtered

Hell Toujou had a pedo club.
i don't see Hara ever drawing Sei do that, even if he turns evil lol.

maybe if he gets super paranoid over Ousen after being forced to give him 600k men
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
i don't see Hara ever drawing Sei do that, even if he turns evil lol.

maybe if he gets super paranoid over Ousen after being forced to give him 600k men
Giving away his daughter for political marriage doesn’t have to be drawn as evil or malicious, it was a very common practice back then to marry your daughters off for alliances

Hara doesn’t have to draw anything actually sexual, he could just keep it mostly vague or off panel
 

TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'𝖘 𝕾𝖕𝖆𝖜𝖓
Giving away his daughter for political marriage doesn’t have to be drawn as evil or malicious, it was a very common practice back then to marry your daughters off for alliances

Hara doesn’t have to draw anything actually sexual, he could just keep it mostly vague or off panel
historically yeah, but this is Kingdom.

Sei marrying his daughter to a man who's probably 50 years her age who also is very untrustworthy would definitely be portrayed in a bad light.

maybe if Kou died in the assassination attempt Sei will do it though
 
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