Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)

[Rumble]

Though I'm not too sure about both Shin and Mouten getting promoted beforehand, but Hara can just give them huge achievements in Han or Zhao. I always figured it would be Ouhon and Shin but this makes sense. Maybe we can say that Ousen influenced the court for some reason to not promote Ouhon?

I think Mou Ten will be the first name announced with Ou Hon being shocked his name isn't read after.

Mou Ten doesn't have the same martial ability, but he does have the brain and, more importantly, both the temperament and judgment. He was the first to "awaken" so I am expecting it to be him announced first and Shin second.

Ou Sen would really only benefit to have his son among the 6GGs as early as possible because it's more prestige for his family and it would make his coup easier as he knows Ou Hon would die for his approval.

I've theorized about Shoubunkun dying in the Yan assassination for awhile. It makes the most sense, and I think eventually he'll die, though it will be a big deal because he's been there since almost chapter 1. Do you recall when the Yan King ordered Prince Dan/En Tan to return to the capital? Dan is the man behind the assassination, and I think the fact he's being mentioned almost a decade before he's relevant historically is a sign of his great importance.

If Sei turns evil, it will be because of Dan. I'm very excited to see Dan and I think he'll be the closest thing the state of Yan has the "main villain"

Kou dying makes sense but I never thought of it. Makes sense considering Sei told her the Shika story.

Shou Bun Kun makes as much sense as Kou, probably even more so, because he was another adult in young Sei's life that put everything on the line for him. Losing him could mean losing his moral compass.

I've been anticipating the assassination attempt ever since we saw that scene in the Yan court.

Sei turning evil could make a lot of character decisions more impactful. Let's say that it influences Shouheikun's future actions too, and maybe it leads to the King of Qi Ouken or even Ousen somehow acting as the final villain.

I've interpreted Shou Hei Kun moving out of the capitol prior to his defection as him choosing self-imposed exile rather than risking running afoul of Sei, whose patience will undoubtedly continue to shorten commensurate with the increase in his temper and violence.

You make a good point about Ou Ken. Seems like an organic turning point. I don't think Ou Sen becomes a villain at any point though, I have a longstanding theory that he will be effectively "neutralised" by Shin after he makes an attempt to sway his loyalties. That's a another theory I'm happy to get into as I believe this wall all coincide around a significant flashback arc to the days of King Sho, Haku Ki, Ou Ki, Ko Shou and the "unrewarded path" of fools Ou Sen spoke of to Ri Boku.

I hope Hara doesn't sugar coat it. Ouhon being the man who gets the most impressive achievement against Wei has definitely been foreshadowed based off his strategic victory during the Fire Dragons arc.

I believe this page is foreshadowing:

I've cited that page many times in direct relation to this theory so I'm mad I forgot to include this time, but you're absolutely right - I think - in that particular moment being incredibly relevant to Ou Hon's decision-making.

I don't think he floods the Wei capitol because of hurt feelings so much as to prove he is absolutely committed.

I can see that happening. Shin and Ouhon have clashed many times before. Maybe Tou will interfere again?

Possibly, but I'd like to think officers on both sides will play a big role in calming things down along with Tou, Roku O Mi and Ryuu Koku rushing over to put a stop it. In particular, I think Kan Jou will be very influential and on the right side history as it were.

I recall after the Kochou vs Kanki arc, we got a scene of Sei and Ouhon talking and I noted Ouhon seemed very loyal. Sei "replacing" Shin as his sword with Ouhon is a real possibility imo.

Also it could be a moment where Ouken turns against Sei, which would be a huge blow.

I think Ou Hon didn't care much for Sei until the king ordered him, Shin and Mou Ten to survive the WZI no matter what. He showed how much he valued Ou Hon then, and it wasn't long after that he rebuked Ba Nan Ji for disrespecting his king and called himself one of the king's blades.

At Eikyuu, Sei also visited him when he was recovering and the two talked about their kids in private after he kicked out Shin, lol.

The seeds are definitely being planted and, again, it really gives Hara an organic "excuse" as to why Ou Hon got such prominent roles in history.

You think Kyoukai is dead by this point?

I think so, yeah, but I don't think it'll be on panel death. I think she dies of illness towards the end of 15 years the Qin Dynasty, possibly contracted while providing care the sick.

I've considered that the terracotta warriors that guard Sei's tomb would be based off the Hi Shin Unit,

I fucking love this idea and I'm shocked it never even occurred to me.

and i've lowkey entertained the idea of Shin letting Sei die (i.e, he refuses to get him medicine or alert his doctors after Sei has an attack from his mercury poisoning).

That is such a good idea.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Mou Ten doesn't have the same martial ability, but he does have the brain and, more importantly, both the temperament and judgment. He was the first to "awaken" so I am expecting it to be him announced first and Shin second.

hmmm makes sense. Hara could give him a huge feat while conquering Zhao like I said before. Though he currently doesn't have a single general kill(nor do any of his subordinates).

Shou Bun Kun makes as much sense as Kou, probably even more so, because he was another adult in young Sei's life that put everything on the line for him. Losing him could mean losing his moral compass.

I hope Shoubunkun narrates another flashback before he dies. He and Tou are the last major survivors of the golden age era. There's always a chance that there's an incident where SBK has to fight on the battlefield again, but I think him dying in the assassination attempt makes the most sense.

Inb4 Kyourei assassinates him for giving her captain/brother in law a wooden shack.

I don't think Ou Sen becomes a villain at any point though, I have a longstanding theory that he will be effectively "neutralised" by Shin after he makes an attempt to sway his loyalties. That's a another theory I'm happy to get into as I believe this wall all coincide around a significant flashback arc to the days of King Sho, Haku Ki, Ou Ki, Ko Shou and the "unrewarded path" of fools Ou Sen spoke of to Ri Boku.

I don't think Ousen will end up "neutralized". I really see him being a major antagonist at some point. Qin and Sei will pay dearly for giving him so much power. I think we'll see him recruit power generals from each state that has fallen and secretly imass a lot of loyalty.

I'm curious about your theory though, would like to hear it.

I actually see the final war of Kingdom being Shin vs Ousen as a callback to Duke Hyou vs Gokei.

I don't think he floods the Wei capitol because of hurt feelings so much as to prove he is absolutely committed.

Oh yeah, he'll definitely do it as a method of defeating Gouhoumei

I believe that Shin and Tou won't damage the Han capital that much beyond necessity during the Han invasion. This will make Gouhoumei believe that he won't have to worry about a strategy like flooding the capital. I expect it will turn Qi into an enemy, which will add some tension to Kingdom.

I think Kan Jou will be very influential

yeah I can see him being like Maron who saved Kanki from getting executed. if he's alive by then lol

I fucking love this idea and I'm shocked it never even occurred to me.

I can totally see the final panel of Kingdom being the Hi Shin Unit members, alive and dead being immortalized as the Terracotta Army.

I expect to see both the terracotta army and the great wall of china.

Or maybe it will be the Gyoku Hou lol.

That is such a good idea.

yeah. iirc Sei died during a carriage tour of China. Maybe he and Shin have a private conversation, and Shin leaves him to die after a coughing fit that requires medical attention.

 

[Monet]

I would like it to happen because the palace doesn't have a value now
simce ryofui gon.
@Rumble
...
but I think it will needs more than just shobunkun or his wife
his daoughter must get killed and more as well.

because sei in manga have been through alot and he overcome it , so if he changed for the reasons you mentioned it will make no sense because he overcomed worse
his mother wanted to kill him etc and there was previous assassination attempts.

So what gonna change esei view has to be something big and alot worse.

....
also maybe hara changed his mind and will not change sei at all.
we reached almost 800 if he didn't change soon
it is not gonna happen

 

[Pirao]

Yeah, I don't think Hara is gonna change Sei at all, he's gonna be a good guy right to the end most likely. I don't think the tone of the manga will chnage much, if at all, certainly nothing as big as Sei going full Genghis Khan on China lol.

According to the records he was already an asshole since the beginning, so banking on history portraying him in a bad light as justification for a later heel turn seems like a pretty flimsy hope to me.

 

[Rumble]

Yeah, I don't think Hara is gonna change Sei at all, he's gonna be a good guy right to the end most likely. I don't think the tone of the manga will chnage much, if at all, certainly nothing as big as Sei going full Genghis Khan on China lol.

According to the records he was already an asshole since the beginning, so banking on history portraying him in a bad light as justification for a later heel turn seems like a pretty flimsy hope to me.

Hara has already confirmed Sei will change in an interview like 2-3 years ago.

https://x.com/kingdom4arab/status/1202979150048505858?s=20

 

[Cichy]

Mouten being promoted before Ouhon would be an odd choice. Ouhon is the first one to lead a campaign in history plus his achievements in the manga so far are superior.

 

[MarineHQ]

I think the Qi King's words were a major red flag and foreshadowing that Sei will indeed go batshit crazy and I hope if he does Hara won't hold back.

The Sei that steps onto the battlefield to raise morale will be history.

 

[Rumble]

Mouten being promoted before Ouhon would be an odd choice. Ouhon is the first one to lead a campaign in history plus his achievements in the manga so far are superior.

The historical records aren't exactly robust to begin with and Hara chose to make Mou Ten the furthest along the maturation process a long time ago. That was probably always the plan because he chose to give him less martial ability to rely on in the first place.

 

[PlasmaSnake]

Making Rishi entirely innocent on Kanpishi/Hanfei's death kinda took away hopes for him or Sei turning evil for me tbh. It's not like he was a main character, and the records are fairly clear in that he caused his death but Hara just put all the blame on Youka while the epitome of evil court schemer who'll advise Sei to burn books and bury scholars alive is entirely heroic

 

[Bullet]

Making Rishi entirely innocent on Kanpishi/Hanfei's death kinda took away hopes for him or Sei turning evil for me tbh. It's not like he was a main character, and the records are fairly clear in that he caused his death but Hara just put all the blame on Youka while the epitome of evil court schemer who'll advise Sei to burn books and bury scholars alive is entirely heroic

Wait so Rishi was an asshole irl?
Real life Qin sucks
Poor Riboku he should have been the main character

 

[PlasmaSnake]

Tbh near everyone was prob an asshole by modern standards, era of constant warfare thousands of years ago and all that, manga Kanki might be the average

 

[Monet]

real life shin should have 10 wifes
and 100 women in his Palace.

but in the manga he reached 27 and still dating

....

Tbh near everyone was prob an asshole by modern standards, era of constant warfare thousands of years ago and all that, manga Kanki might be the average

killing 100 is really the average.
but making bow is nor average at all lol.

 

[Bullet]

Tbh near everyone was prob an asshole by modern standards, era of constant warfare thousands of years ago and all that, manga Kanki might be the average

Bromance of Renpa and RSJ irl was sweet
Riboku was a loyal dude trying to protect his county
Seems like Zhao were the good guys

 

[Monet]

Bromance of Renpa and RSJ irl was sweet
Riboku was a loyal dude trying to protect his county
Seems like Zhao were the good guys

Always have been, Qin's monkeys have been destroyed land people since esisei grandfather

...

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

IT KEEPS ON COMING BOIS!!!

So I meant to do a post on this ever since 786, but I kept getting tied up.

So if you guys recall in my Shibashou as Ousen’s vassal theory (I made need to just create a separate thread for this theory), one of the things I said there is that Shibashou seemed to be someone who wasn’t even open to the notion of speaking to Ousen right now, and that Ousen would have to “wear down” Shibashou into his services via messengers to Seika.

WELL, in 786, we get this:

And we find out that Shibashou is already open to the possibility of talking things out with his enemies, believing that people only take up weapons because they are cowards. A surprisingly pacifist philosophy from a martial 3GH, Hara is already giving my man some depth.

But anyway, I’m going to count this as a W for the theory because Shibashou doesn’t really need to be persuaded to actually speak with Ousen, he might be open to that possibility already, and may remain open to it so long as Ousen doesn’t do anything particularly heinous (he won’t).

IT JUST KEEPS COMING!!!

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚

 

[Peroroncino]

IT KEEPS ON COMING BOIS!!!

So I meant to do a post on this ever since 786, but I kept getting tied up.

So if you guys recall in my Shibashou as Ousen’s vassal theory (I made need to just create a separate thread for this theory), one of the things I said there is that Shibashou seemed to be someone who wasn’t even open to the notion of speaking to Ousen right now, and that Ousen would have to “wear down” Shibashou into his services via messengers to Seika.

WELL, in 786, we get this:

And we find out that Shibashou is already open to the possibility of talking things out with his enemies, believing that people only take up weapons because they are cowards. A surprisingly pacifist philosophy from a martial 3GH, Hara is already giving my man some depth.

But anyway, I’m going to count this as a W for the theory because Shibashou doesn’t really need to be persuaded to actually speak with Ousen, he might be open to that possibility already, and may remain open to it so long as Ousen doesn’t do anything particularly heinous (he won’t).

IT JUST KEEPS COMING!!!

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚

Spoiler

considering sima shang whom he's based on kinda just disappears from the records after rbk dies hara can do whatever he wants with SBS character

 

[Monet]

well, since i think ytw will die at kantan.
sbs could serve as replacement but not as gg6 cuz this position can't be given to an enemy.
he could be replacement to all Ousen’s generals with kansaro.

but I wouldn't like that at all since it will confirm that sbs is just killing machine general as hoken.

sbs best end is being killed or go with prince K to the new zhou

IT KEEPS ON COMING BOIS!!!

So I meant to do a post on this ever since 786, but I kept getting tied up.

So if you guys recall in my Shibashou as Ousen’s vassal theory (I made need to just create a separate thread for this theory), one of the things I said there is that Shibashou seemed to be someone who wasn’t even open to the notion of speaking to Ousen right now, and that Ousen would have to “wear down” Shibashou into his services via messengers to Seika.

WELL, in 786, we get this:

And we find out that Shibashou is already open to the possibility of talking things out with his enemies, believing that people only take up weapons because they are cowards. A surprisingly pacifist philosophy from a martial 3GH, Hara is already giving my man some depth.

But anyway, I’m going to count this as a W for the theory because Shibashou doesn’t really need to be persuaded to actually speak with Ousen, he might be open to that possibility already, and may remain open to it so long as Ousen doesn’t do anything particularly heinous (he won’t).

IT JUST KEEPS COMING!!!

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚

 

[Cichy]

I don't think Shibashou will join Ousen, instead he will be the main antagonist during the conquest of Dai. There are few hints for it to be the case.

1. Historically state of Dai was created by prince Ka who established a new kingdom from the remnants of Zhao and made an alliance with Yan.

2. In the manga after Kaku Kai's power grab it was mentioned that Riboku brought Ka to the city of Seika.

3. We know that in the past Shibashou refused promotion to 3GH, but now he is an official member. So the question is what changed? I believe Shibashou refused before, because he was done with Zhao's rotten politics. However, meeting Ka gave him hope that there is still future for the state if Ka can reach the position of power, so he decided to step into the sunlight and become Ka's loyal follower.

4. This also makes sense from writing perspective, since conquest of Dai needs a powerful antagonist. Instead of pulling a new character out of his ass Hara can use Shibashou for that role.

5. If you want to go further you can even imagine scenario where Shibashou is involved in Qin-Yan wars, since like I said states of Yan and Dai had an alliance.

 

[Pirao]

I don't think Shibashou will join Ousen, instead he will be the main antagonist during the conquest of Dai. There are few hints for it to be the case.

1. Historically state of Dai was created by prince Ka who established a new kingdom from the remnants of Zhao and made an alliance with Yan.

2. In the manga after Kaku Kai's power grab it was mentioned that Riboku brought Ka to the city of Seika.

3. We know that in the past Shibashou refused promotion to 3GH, but now he is an official member. So the question is what changed? I believe Shibashou refused before, because he was done with Zhao's rotten politics. However, meeting Ka gave him hope that there is still future for the state if Ka can reach the position of power, so he decided to step into the sunlight and become Ka's loyal follower.

4. This also makes sense from writing perspective, since conquest of Dai needs a powerful antagonist. Instead of pulling a new character out of his ass Hara can use Shibashou for that role.

5. If you want to go further you can even imagine scenario where Shibashou is involved in Qin-Yan wars, since like I said states of Yan and Dai had an alliance.

I agree that SBS won't join Ousen but you're wrong about Dai.

Dai's protector will be great general Futei

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I don't think Shibashou will join Ousen, instead he will be the main antagonist during the conquest of Dai. There are few hints for it to be the case.

1. Historically state of Dai was created by prince Ka who established a new kingdom from the remnants of Zhao and made an alliance with Yan.

2. In the manga after Kaku Kai's power grab it was mentioned that Riboku brought Ka to the city of Seika.

3. We know that in the past Shibashou refused promotion to 3GH, but now he is an official member. So the question is what changed? I believe Shibashou refused before, because he was done with Zhao's rotten politics. However, meeting Ka gave him hope that there is still future for the state if Ka can reach the position of power, so he decided to step into the sunlight and become Ka's loyal follower.

4. This also makes sense from writing perspective, since conquest of Dai needs a powerful antagonist. Instead of pulling a new character out of his ass Hara can use Shibashou for that role.

5. If you want to go further you can even imagine scenario where Shibashou is involved in Qin-Yan wars, since like I said states of Yan and Dai had an alliance.

This would be cool too, but if we’re being technical, Shibashou wouldn’t be needed as Ousen’s EOS vassal until 221, a year after Dai is destroyed.

So Shibashou could both lead the Dai military as well as join up with Ousen for the Qi war.

Dai may very well have its own 3GH, Shibashou, Futei, and maybe someone else. Ka’s goal with the state of Dai was not to found a whole new state but literally to resurrect Zhao itself.