Anime & Manga Admiral Lee Hung's Rare Meme Repository

Sword & Admiral Quality


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Sure. Take away Luffy’s ability to choose his fights every so often. Since Luffy’s character is all about freedom, then his ultimate antagonist(s) can only be someone who tries to rob him of that freedom.

Which is of course Akainu as Justice is the opposite of Freedom in OP
:akaman:
Hmm, Akainu isn't the opposite of freedom though. He's actually been represented as quite a funny dude in the right circumstances (trolling around with Sengoku, Fujitora etc.).

Bold prediction: He won't even be an enemy in the end and actually joins Luffy & Co. when the final battle against the real enemies of this world (Imu and the Celestial Dragons) starts.
 
Hmm, Akainu isn't the opposite of freedom though. He's actually been represented as quite a funny dude in the right circumstances (trolling around with Sengoku, Fujitora etc.).

Bold prediction: He won't even be an enemy in the end and actually joins Luffy & Co. when the final battle against the real enemies of this world (Imu and the Celestial Dragons) starts.
That would be a fun turn of events, but I don't see the person who killed his brother ever joining up with Luffy. It would make a very bitter taste.
 
H

Haoshoku

See how many likes Celestial got (32) and how many likes I got (7) in that screenshot 😂 People didnt even want to like pro-Zoro posts. It seems my buddy @Haoshoku was also pro-Sanji there 😂
:vistalaugh:
I probably was a bit pro Sanji earlier on as I was fresh off being an anime only lmao and a noob OP power scaler. Believing things like “Yonko >> Admirals” etc I eventually revamped all that.

Though yeah anyone looked pretty crazy for even suggesting Zoro would win high diff back then, that forum was swarming with them pro Sanji dudes everywhere lmao. That is when Celestial was actually a quality content creator as well. You came off as the resident Zoro wanker for making what actually was a far logical and factual take than Celestial’s take.

As a powerscalar, Bogard was really on a different level during 2015-16. I am sure many powerscalars followed his posting style later on. I used to debate in youtube before joining OJ and I remember I was really amazed when I first saw Bogard's posting style in OJ.
Word.

A lotta dudes forget how much of a quality poster @Bogard was. ZenZu was good but maaan a moment of respect for Bogard.. Dude was the MJ of the Arena back then, he really set the standard with his takes. Always going in depth, but getting straight to the point with the evidences for takes for a well grounded conclusion and a very convincing argument when it was all said and done. & unlike most other dudes, he never got flustered in debates, not once.
@bold, I shall humbly admit I was one of those dudes, I took from that style of posting for sure. I also took the Roger/WB wank out of Bogard’s playbook.

Only other way to put it, he was a baaaaaad man
 
Would you say WCI's second half was a good idea on paper but executed poorly?

Their desperate escape from Yonko territory on lock-down and Luffy fighting the "Zoro opponent" for prideful reasons appeal to me. It's a
great contrast between an Emperor's arc and normal ones.
The escape from BM was thematically and narratively consistent with what was set up throughout the arc. It's problem was the sheer number of cliffhanger endings that the Strawhats get their way out of by the next chapter exhausted Big Mom's threat as a villain. Perospero ended up the most effective of the BM forces in trying to stop the Strawhat escape. It's not coincidence that Perospero is a very well received character as a result.

Luffy vs Katakuri, imo, had all the hallmarks of Oda throwing it in later minute to give the arc a more exciting ending, and maybe as an answer to his admitted "how to beat Kaido" problem. As a fight entertaining, the mirror theme is excellent, Katakuri worked well with the theme of hiding your true face, but the biggest problem was we had Luffy escape from Katakuri but then go back purely to beat him despite him not being a threat to his crew anymore. While his crew, at half strength, were facing an army.

And the less said about Sanji and the Vinsmokes the better
 
Which of Luffy, Law, Kidd, Drake and Urouge do you think he's stronger than?

Honestly, he isn't even looking better than Apoo.
Hawkins already proved himself to be on Law's level :kayneshrug: When they clashed it was easy to see how Hawkins can counter Law, but Law did manage to get rid of his fodder. Hawkins came out on top though, because later he managed to capture Law, proving he was smarter. Law only ''defeated'' Hawkins, because of the unknown person that freed Law.

Hawkins is already above Urouge and Drake because of that, including Apoo who had a great showing against Luffy and Zoro, but that he kind of came out of nowhere and I think Law>Apoo. Kidd might be stronger than Hawkins and Law though.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Hawkins already proved himself to be on Law's level :kayneshrug: When they clashed it was easy to see how Hawkins can counter Law, but Law did manage to get rid of his fodder. Hawkins came out on top though, because later he managed to capture Law, proving he was smarter. Law only ''defeated'' Hawkins, because of the unknown person that freed Law.

Hawkins is already above Urouge and Drake because of that, including Apoo who had a great showing against Luffy and Zoro, but that he kind of came out of nowhere and I think Law>Apoo. Kidd might be stronger than Hawkins and Law though.
Wow.

I think I disagree so much with your reasoning process here that I wouldn't start a debate on it.

I guess if you place Hawkins ~ Law, then Hawkins is obviously top 5.
:wonderland:
 
@Admiral Lee Hung thanks for the new chapter! This is current day Shishi to the spot. :milaugh:
YouTube guy's faces nearly killed me. The arm was an incredible touch ahaha. And I love the horse. He's always there with mute support.

Considering that we can get wildly differing opinions on opposite sides of the spectrum regarding the quality of Katakuri’s character then perhaps it is fair to say that Katakuri is a good character with a compelling thematic concept that was executed poorly?

I remember at the time, the three things that turned me off Katakuri were;

I) His presence completely undermined Linlin’s status as the arc antagonist.

An antagonistic character should be someone that opposes the protagonist in a meaningful way, usually through opposing or differing morals, ideologies, outlooks on life, principles etc. etc.

Katakuri clearly had a far more developed role as an antagonist than Linlin which is honestly astonishing since Linlin is a major series antagonist that was revealed all the way back in Water 7 as one of the greatest pirates of the current era and to have ever lived.

In comparison, Katakuri was practically introduced at the last possible moment, being introduced during the beginning of WCI Arc’s climax. For him to outshine Linlin is completely unprecedented and would be akin to Mr 7 and Miss Father’s Day outshining Crocodile.

It is not like Linlin had no opposing ideology to Luffy either. For starters, their views on family and loyalty are chalk and cheese. Lol.

I know one could say that Linlin could shine later in the story (fat chance, pun intended) but it is the first impression that is always the strongest when it comes to story telling and Linlin’s first impression was completely undermined by Katakuri.

II) The reasons for the fight to occur in the first place were nonsense and undermined Luffy’s previously established character.

Luffy was never someone who started conflict with any major arc antagonist. It was always an antagonist that started shit and blocked all options off to the point where Luffy had to confront them for a logical reason (e.g. Crocodile and Alabasta, Enel putting the SH crew on trial, Moriah trapping the crew, CP9 capturing Robin etc.).

Luffy was always more concerned with the safety of his crew and adventure. Deliberately picking fights for no reason was not in his nature. Just look at his interactions with Bellamy during Jaya Arc. Luffy had no interest in an ego contest with Bellamy because such things are meaningless, a lesson he learned from Shanks all the way back in Chapter 1.

Compare that to Luffy abandoning his crew (which is down to 1/2 it’s usual numbers) to a literal Yonko in order to have a fight with Katakuri for the sake of fighting and it suddenly feels less like Luffy vs Katakuri in One Piece and more like Rubber Goku vs Demon King Katakuri in Dragon Ball Sea.

The old Luffy would have prioritised the safety of his crew above all else. Luffy has the chance to either trap Katakuri in the Mirror World by dumping him in there and taking Brûlée hostage or just straight up dumped Katakuri in the ocean. Then he would have protected his crew from the rampaging Yonko Linlin.

Before I hear some objections about how Luffy is not “underhanded”, this is the same Luffy who regularly used people as meat shields since Pre-TS and who was fine with partaking in the assassination of a 68 year old granny by directly triggering a catastrophic mental breakdown.

Seeing such a core aspect of Luffy swept aside just to have a cool fight was utterly disappointing.

III) The entire fight happened during the worst portion of WCI Arc, if not the worst portion of the entire manga. To this day, I am still of the opinion that WCI should have just ended after the Tea Party finished.
I think your approach to all of this is a bit off, I will make it short.

I) Katakuri is the true arc antagonist, because Oda needed Luffy's power up without Linlin losing face. Clearly his goal was to show how far he is from facing a Yonko. But as he had to make a final battle for Luffy, Katakuri is a brilliantly executed replacement. It helps that he's an interesting character. Linlin's impression was not diminished because she is portrayed as pretty damn invincible. Don't project your potential personal opinion of her when clearly she's done nothing but rampage and scare everyone.

II) It didn't diminish Luffy's character at all. He picked all his major fights so far (bar Kuma? But that is not really a fight per se). He even accepted Kaido in a heartbeat without a single reason after Law suggested it. He threatened Big Mom and Doffy over the phone den den mushi. You say he did for a logical reason, but the fact remains that he did pick them. That is literally his trademark at this point, picking fights around the world. Did he even know why he picked a fight with Arlong? No, he just went for it because Nami was hurt. He does it all based on a whim or feeling.
Post skip Luffy is more focused on gaining power. Kuma and Ace were the lessons which taught him that he must become stronger. He didn't initially want to fight Kata, but he was cornered and he saw a challenge.

The fact that he saw an opportunity to learn from overcoming Kata was incredible character growth for Luffy, not undermining. Please don't put him in a box, it's enough that we have a simple minded MC, but it's not true that he can't change because we already saw he did in many instances.
 
Luffy vs Katakuri, imo, had all the hallmarks of Oda throwing it in later minute to give the arc a more exciting ending, and maybe as an answer to his admitted "how to beat Kaido" problem. As a fight entertaining, the mirror theme is excellent, Katakuri worked well with the theme of hiding your true face, but the biggest problem was we had Luffy escape from Katakuri but then go back purely to beat him despite him not being a threat to his crew anymore. While his crew, at half strength, were facing an army.
I think Katakuri fits as the final obstacle in Luffy's invisible test that started with Cracker, where he must pass the walls that are the Yonko's heavy hitters.
 
That is when Celestial was actually a quality content creator as well. You came off as the resident Zoro wanker for making what actually was a far logical and factual take than Celestial’s take.
Celestial had an army of mods and Sanji fans as a backup during 2015-16. He was the knight of the OJ forums those days, "You need an opinion over something, ask Celestial" kind of deal. By the end of 2017, things changed. We took over the arena. Recoilation became admin and Blaze became senior mod, who were less biased. Things got reversed, and it was Celestial who was outnumbered as his backup army ran away. Thats when I stopped debating against Celestial, I hate to gang up on someone.

lotta dudes forget how much of a quality poster @Bogard was. ZenZu was good but maaan a moment of respect for Bogard.. Dude was the MJ of the Arena back then, he really set the standard with his takes. Always going in depth, but getting straight to the point with the evidences for takes for a well grounded conclusion and a very convincing argument when it was all said and done. & unlike most other dudes, he never got flustered in debates, not once.
@bold, I shall humbly admit I was one of those dudes, I took from that style of posting for sure. I also took the Roger/WB wank out of Bogard’s playbook.
Yeah, Bogard was definitely the MVP during the ZvsS debates of 2015-17. @Cinera probably havent seen much as he kept getting banned :D

Zenzu was not a fodder, but more like a side character those days:

Zenzu became more popular with his admiral=yonko later on. His takes on Sanji's character and Oda's inconsistencies with Sanji's kindness during WCI was also very popular.
 
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I mean, only sort of? It's clear Oda entertains these levels too. The fandom just makes it more rigid. It's like pretending YC 1 thru 3 doesn't exist despite Oda using bounties (and a naming scheme for some) to rank them.

I agree, with his existing feats, he's minimum YC4 and max. YC3. But putting Marineford Crocodile below YC4 is silly. It's like imagining that Daifuku or WCI Sanji are going to block Mihawk's path and force him to back off from hunting Luffy.
Could you maybe move these posts to the Croc pl thread? I guess it’ll scare @Cinera away from replying but I’m happy to debate.
 
H

Haoshoku

Celestial had an army of mods and Sanji fans as a backup during 2015-16. He was the knight of the OJ forums those days, "You need an opinion over something, ask Celestial" kind of deal. By the end of 2017, things changed. We took over the arena. Recoilation became admin and Blaze became senior mod, who were less biased. Things got reversed, and it was Celestial who was outnumbered as his backup army ran away. Thats when I stopped debating against Celestial, I hate to gang up on someone.


Yeah, Bogard was definitely the MVP during the ZvsS debates of 2015-17. @Cinera probably havent seen much as he kept getting banned :D

Zenzu was not a fodder, but more like a side character those days:

Zenzu became more popular with his admiral=yonko later on. His takes on Sanji's character and Oda's inconsistencies with Sanji's kindness during WCI was also very popular.
Nidai whenever ZenZu’s powerscaling expertise is brought up lmao:
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
Celestial had an army of mods and Sanji fans as a backup during 2015-16. He was the knight of the OJ forums those days, "You need an opinion over something, ask Celestial" kind of deal. By the end of 2017, things changed. We took over the arena. Recoilation became admin and Blaze became senior mod, who were less biased. Things got reversed, and it was Celestial who was outnumbered as his backup army ran away. Thats when I stopped debating against Celestial, I hate to gang up on someone.
This is a bit overblown imo, your experience may be a bit different but I never got this feeling of an unfair advantage concerning Celestial, he was an easy target from the jump. I found it extremely easy to break his posts down. And that's all that was needed, you want to expose someones weak arguments, you feed their points back at them for everyone to see. Whenever it becomes solely an ad hominem deal its hard for anyone to take your points seriously. It's like wearing a big sign saying I lost the debate.

This was around late 2015, I hadn't even cracked 1000 posts


He was already losing his cool in debates my first few interactions with him on the forum. He received infractions in like my 3rd interaction with him, and I got a message from Divvens reassuring me that they treat new and old users alike. Never paid attention to user interactions like that, only what they post in threads I was interested in, and Celestial happened to be posting a whole lot of nonsense in the arena.

Only noticed his "downfall" when people were shocked at how he was acting, when that was the only version of him I ever knew since nearly all our interactions would end up that way. I'm assuming this was because of posting styles, you, Bogard and Roger were probably too passive with your approach, I went right at him, making sure he can't weasel out of things that he had said. When I joined OJ it was the softest battle section I had ever seen. No one held anyone accountable for horrible takes. Which could be a good thing in ways, if I'm being honest, I definitely brought some negative energy to the place, but it was bound to happen as the forum grew I was just lucky enough to find the place first.

Also his ban was years later, you're mixing it up. I was involved in that ofcourse, but it was HeroesNZ who put the final nail in the coffin.






Nidai whenever ZenZu’s powerscaling expertise is brought up lmao:
lmfao
 
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