General & Others Anyone who uses a sword is a swordsman. Yes, including Big Mom and Kizaru.

[BossYimz]

Kaku has swords. Kizaru doesn't, nothing similar about it.

By your logic every cp9 member had swords and were swordsman because they could use rankyaku, oh wait no, only the dude who carries swords was considered a swordsman. Wonder why that is.

Oh yea having a sword is a prerequisite for being a swordsman, who would of thunk it? Even Daz wasn't considered a swordsman despite his whole body being a blade and him using it like a blade.

Until Kizaru comes out and outright says he's a swordsman, there is no reason to categorize him as one, as he doesn't even meet the absolute basic requirement of having a blade let alone a sword.

Damn, Luffy must be going around carrying guns and bazookas then. Since he named moves created by his df after guns.

Kaku has 2 physicall swords. He is a 4 sword style swordsman. 2 of the other swords are his legs. So explain to me how an individual that only has 2 physicall swords can still qualify to be a swordsman since he doesnt have 4 physicall sword.

Kizaru does have his sword. It just happens to be made of light.

Yes every cp9 member is a swordsman. Kaku just happens to bethe best out of all of them. He even stated it himself that his swordsmanship is the best out of the cp9. A person who is not a swordsman would not be trained in swordsmanship. Since all cp9 learnt swordsmanship, they are all swordsmen. Cp9 members dont needto carry physicall swords since their bodies are they weapons as alluded to in the conversation between Kaku and Zoro.

All swords are blades but not all blades are swords. A knife and a sword, bisento are all bladed weapons but only by using a sword do you become a swordsman. Daz bones' body being made of blades doesnt mean he is automatically a swordsman.

Correct me if am mistaken, but I have never see Fuji, Rayleigh, Shiki, Brooke, Kinemon, Law, Ryuma etc callthemselves swordsmen yetthey still are. You requiring Kizaruto call himself a swordsman to believe it makes no sense when through out the series only 5 people as far as I can recall have called themselves swordsmens: Mihawk, Zoro, Kuina and Vista.

I dont mean to be rude but you last point insults your own intelligence. The fact that you had to use Luffy's named attack as a means to justify you opinion shows you dont have good point to debate with. Anyway, I will entertain your argument and show you the difference. Kizaru and Luffy are completely different. Luffy only names his attacks after guns etc, he doesnt actually make a gun with his power then use that gun to fight with it. Kizaru on the other had, named an attack based on a sword then created asword with his power and fought using that sword like how a swordman would. You would have a leg to stand on if all Kizaru did was name an attack after a sword but not use his power to create a sword then fight with a sword.

 

[comrade]

It's fair to ask though, why Mihawk did not challenge the likes of Big Mom. At the time Shanks was still Mihawk's rival, I believe Big Mom was stronger than Shanks. She might be stronger than Shanks even now. But it doesn't seem like Mihawk ever sought to duel her. If he did, that surely would've been mentioned either in the Manga or Databook. He could've sought to fight Kizaru or Fujitora as well. Now that he is chased by the marines, it would be a good idea to send a swordsman admiral like Fujitora or Kizaru after him to have him prove his superiority.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

It's fair to ask though, why Mihawk did not challenge the likes of Big Mom. At the time Shanks was still Mihawk's rival, I believe Big Mom was stronger than Shanks. She might be stronger than Shanks even now. But it doesn't seem like Mihawk ever sought to duel her. If he did, that surely would've been mentioned either in the Manga or Databook. He could've sought to fight Kizaru or Fujitora as well. Now that he is chased by the marines, it would be a good idea to send a swordsman admiral like Fujitora or Kizaru after him to have him prove his superiority.

Because whatever else she might have, since she is using a sword, she is automatically under Mihawk, so why should he even try?

 

[Sentinel]

Kizaru is a swordsman but swordsmanship is not his main forte.

We saw how Kizaru pulled out attacks massively dwarfing his feats in SA when he fought against the WBP. If Kizaru can already match old Rayleigh in swordsmanship without showing his other abilities, this just simply means that Kizaru is stronger than old Rayleigh to begin with but rather used a convenient fighting style against a top tier swordsman in CQC.

Admirals shouldn't be underestimated, especially not the light man. :kizabat:

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Kizaru is a swordsman but swordsmanship is not his main forte.

We saw how Kizaru pulled out attacks massively dwarfing his feats in SA when he fought against the WBP. If Kizaru can already match old Rayleigh in swordsmanship without showing his other abilities, this just simply means that Kizaru is stronger than old Rayleigh to begin with but rather used a convenient fighting style against a top tier swordsman in CQC.

Admirals shouldn't be underestimated, especially not the light man. :kizabat:

Nah, if you use swordsmanship, it has to be your strongest fighting style, c´mon, swords are holy

 

[comrade]

We saw how Kizaru pulled out attacks massively dwarfing his feats in SA when he fought against the WBP

And that's not even his awakening. Light awakening must be some crazy shit. Buh Bye Sabaody in this case.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

And that's not even his awakening. Light awakening must be some crazy shit. Buh Bye Sabaody in this case.

Admirals awakening is gonna be lit

 

[King7]

It's fair to ask though, why Mihawk did not challenge the likes of Big Mom. At the time Shanks was still Mihawk's rival, I believe Big Mom was stronger than Shanks. She might be stronger than Shanks even now. But it doesn't seem like Mihawk ever sought to duel her. If he did, that surely would've been mentioned either in the Manga or Databook. He could've sought to fight Kizaru or Fujitora as well. Now that he is chased by the marines, it would be a good idea to send a swordsman admiral like Fujitora or Kizaru after him to have him prove his superiority.

I believe Big Mom is under Mihawk , but not necessarily because of Swordsmanship , because it's ambiguous if she is a Swordswoman , she has Napoleon and Zeus who can move independently

Anyway , we know that Mihawk likely challenged Shanks pre his Emperor title . so maybe Shanks' crew wasn't complete at that time , hence Mihawk was willing to challenge him ?

Or , the first time Mihawk and Shanks met , it wasn't because Mihawk sought him out . it was because Shanks ( and crew ) happened to be at the same place with Mihawk , after this they acquainted with each other and learned that both of them are top tier Swordsmen or something like that , and they agreed to duel/spar each other for WSS title

 

[comrade]

We might say it is true that everyone is a swordsman that is competent at swordsmanship or even who uses a sword in battle.

But we might also say, that the WSS predominantly includes those whose strongest ability is swordsmanship. Imagine Shanks eats some overpowered fruit like the gravity fruit, that lets him spam meteors, lift a country above his head and crush it beneath gravity. That would suddenly elevate Shanks above Mihawk. If Shanks ate a Zoan for example, he would still fall under the WSS domain, because a zoan merely boosts your physical stats you apply to your swordsmanship. But if you gain a power that dwarfs your swordsmanship, even if you are a swordsman, it would be kinda unfair to measure him by the standards Zoro or Mihawk have. Because suddenly, Mihawk, who was nearly equal to a swordsman, would now have to face a power even greater that has nothing to do with swordsmanship, in order to still claim his WSS title.

 

[HA001]

We might say it is true that everyone is a swordsman that is competent at swordsmanship or even who uses a sword in battle.

But we might also say, that the WSS predominantly includes those whose strongest ability is swordsmanship. Imagine Shanks eats some overpowered fruit like the gravity fruit, that lets him spam meteors, lift a country above his head and crush it beneath gravity. That would suddenly elevate Shanks above Mihawk. If Shanks ate a Zoan for example, he would still fall under the WSS domain, because a zoan merely boosts your physical stats you apply to your swordsmanship. But if you gain a power that dwarfs your swordsmanship, even if you are a swordsman, it would be kinda unfair to measure him by the standards Zoro or Mihawk have. Because suddenly, Mihawk, who was nearly equal to a swordsman, would now have to face a power even greater that has nothing to do with swordsmanship, in order to still claim his WSS title.

Yawn. No fruit or not if youre a swordsman you are a swordsman doesnt matter what else you use in conjunction with it.

 

[comrade]

Yawn. No fruit or not if youre a swordsman you are a swordsman doesnt matter what else you use in conjunction with it.

So if Shanks eats and masters a fruit that allows him to beat Mihawk without the use of a sword, he is the WSS?

 

[trav]

Yes every cp9 member is a swordsman. Kaku just happens to bethe best out of all of them. He even stated it himself that his swordsmanship is the best out of the cp9. A person who is not a swordsman would not be trained in swordsmanship. Since all cp9 learnt swordsmanship, they are all swordsmen. Cp9 members dont needto carry physicall swords since their bodies are they weapons as alluded to in the conversation between Kaku and Zoro.

nailed it.

It's fair to ask though, why Mihawk did not challenge the likes of Big Mom. At the time Shanks was still Mihawk's rival, I believe Big Mom was stronger than Shanks. She might be stronger than Shanks even now. But it doesn't seem like Mihawk ever sought to duel her. If he did, that surely would've been mentioned either in the Manga or Databook. He could've sought to fight Kizaru or Fujitora as well. Now that he is chased by the marines, it would be a good idea to send a swordsman admiral like Fujitora or Kizaru after him to have him prove his superiority.

picking the OP appart. 1 step at a time.

So if Shanks eats and masters a fruit that allows him to beat Mihawk without the use of a sword, he is the WSS?

if he is still mainly using his sword to perform df attack then yes. he would be. at least in my definition of the term "swordsmen".
if he uses the df differently. then not.

 

[HA001]

So if Shanks eats and masters a fruit that allows him to beat Mihawk without the use of a sword, he is the WSS?

If hes not using a sword then hes not a swordsman is he.

 

[Finalbeta]

So if Shanks eats and masters a fruit that allows him to beat Mihawk without the use of a sword, he is the WSS?

Title refers to the individuals that are also swordsmen. So if Shanks eats a DF that allows him to defeat Mihawk then he becomes WSS

 

[comrade]

If hes not using a sword then hes not a swordsman is he.

You don't get the point do you, lol.
Shanks is an excellent swordsman and near equal to Mihawk powerwise. But what if Shanks consumes and masters a DF that makes him so strong, that he can beat Mihawk without using his sword? Would Shanks be able to fairly claim the WSS title?

 

[HA001]

You don't get the point do you, lol.
Shanks is an excellent swordsman and near equal to Mihawk powerwise. But what if Shanks consumes and masters a DF that makes him so strong, that he can beat Mihawk without using his sword? Would Shanks be able to fairly claim the WSS title?

If he stops fighting with the sword then no.

 

[comrade]

If he stops fighting with the sword then no.

Shanks would still be at his strongest with a sword and would use it. He would just beat Mihawk without using a sword as a proof of concept.
:smithnie:

 

[Blackbeard]

Can you even call Kizaru's light manifestation a Meito wielded by a swordmaster? it literally has no constant shape because Kizaru himself is the one who solidify it, it has no grade and it obviously can't be blackened. So Kizaru's entire usage of his devil fruit from speed boost/destructive capacity is nothing compared to one mere attack he pulled once.

Kizaru's light kicks are drastically boosted thanks to his devil fruit. their blasts can easily bust massive mangrove trees and his casual laser beams can obliterate ships, Amaterasu can emit a powerful flash of light to blind his opponents, Yata no Kagami gives him movement boost, his light transportation also gives him a massive speed boost, Yasakani no Magatama gives him a massive AoE boost (and so does most of his large scale attacks) yet we haven't even seen his awakening which should logically cause as much destruction as Akainu's/Aokiji's

But no, his deadliest move is his light-based sword.

 

[Finalbeta]

The title refers to all swordsmen and other characters are exempt.

However it's about the individuals' overall strenght and not just their swordsmanship skill.

So either Shanks improves his skill with the sword or not it does not matter. What counts is that he beats Mihawk with a DF becoming WSS.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

I believe Big Mom is under Mihawk , but not necessarily because of Swordsmanship , because it's ambiguous if she is a Swordswoman , she has Napoleon and Zeus who can move independently

Anyway , we know that Mihawk likely challenged Shanks pre his Emperor title . so maybe Shanks' crew wasn't complete at that time , hence Mihawk was willing to challenge him ?

Or , the first time Mihawk and Shanks met , it wasn't because Mihawk sought him out . it was because Shanks ( and crew ) happened to be at the same place with Mihawk , after this they acquainted with each other and learned that both of them are top tier Swordsmen or something like that , and they agreed to duel/spar each other for WSS title

Being a swordswoman is irrelevant in itself and not the decisive aspect, the relevant thing is if her swordsmanship is the peak of her might, if so, yes she is under Mihawk, if not, it´s stupid to assume so.
Guys around here are hypocritical, they blame people for putting swordsmanship on a pedestal with "true swordsman and all" (which i agree with is nonsense, there is a code that some swordsman who respect each other live by, but it was never stated as requisite for being considered a swordsman, but simply one that you can respect and fight on equal terms).
At the same time they put swordsmanship on a pedestal themselves, like it describes everything about a fighter, and once you are considered one, everything else becomes irrelevant and you are only judged based on that.

Swordsmanship is a fighting style that uses a sword, nothing else needs to be said about it, and the peak of that fighting style is Mihawk. And a swordsman is someone who can use or is using swordsmanship, also very clear.
But if you use swordsmanship but have stronger fighting styles, are you limited by your ability in your swordsmanship? Everyone with half a brain would answer no.

Whitebeard could match Roger with his bisento and his uber haki, even assuming Bisento is not a sword, that would make him a spearman, right? Using a sword makes you a swordsman, so using a spear makes you a spearman consequently (you can call it spear holder, sounds better). Is Whitebeard limited by his spear mastery? He was able to match Roger, and made Blackbeard his bitch while being half dead, how could he not considered to be one. Yet the strongest part of Whitebeard is his fruit, the most destructive fruit in the world, to claim he would be limited by only the bisento is nonsense.
Anyone would agree to this, but suddenly with swords it is a different story since swords are holy and need to have different rules, this is the hypocritical part.

There are many mixed martial artists (which boxing is a part of obviously) who also fought in boxing only matches and are listed in the federations, a lot of them can compete in boxing even on a high level but have not reached or won titles but do hold titles in the UFC and other MMA organizations, because their skill in boxing, while great, is trumped by their skill and strength in grappling and their ground game for example.
Can these people not be considered boxers anymore? The boxing world disagrees.
Are they limited by their boxing? Obviously not.
And while they might lose against the respective boxing champions of the many federations and classes, using their strongest fighting style might change things, does not have to obviously, but can.

That´s really all that needs to be said about it.