Powers & Abilities Conqueror vs Non Conqueror Mentality

[kurwa]

Akainu canonically destroyed Goofy's "never doubting confidence spirit" and made him doubt his dream of becoming PK

It’s not the same at all.

Isn't this the bozo who saw Gaban standing with Rayleigh and his reading comprehension of a cartoon comic lead to believe that Gaban is a fodder character who will not matter and that he just happened to be some fodder standing next to Rayleigh for no reason?

 

[Blazing Lion]

Begji and Low fans seem real pissed

Post automatically merged: Jun 28, 2025

Why do people pretend Sanji’s character hasn’t developed since Baratie and these panels don’t exist? Using that “give up on your dream to save your life panel” as slander is pure illiteracy. Lmao

Thanks for sharing the panel of Zoro one tapping Begji
Bitchboy would have died from the first dose of Luffys pain and Zoro would still have to tank the rest, maybe after getting the Exo Begji can reach 50% of pre TS Zoro level.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Because if Sanji chose to die instead of marry pudding Zeff and them would’ve died lmao dying does nothing but living saved everything.

Maybe you should read the arc again.

You are really not getting this. I’ve already said it.

He will make decisions (that in the real world) are logical and rational, and give up. Luffy and Zoro are more idealised and don’t.

I did not say what Sanji did when he gave up in WCI was not, by real world standards, rational and logical.

I am saying that in the OP world, Oda has made it very clear that it is considered to be more impressive to choose the seemingly irrational path and put all your faith in yourself. That is the sign of people with the greatest willpower, and the greater the willpower, the stronger you are.

This is a series where Oda portrays it as a good thing to fight against seemingly unbeatable odds. Zoro fighting Mihawk, where he was certain to die, is portrayed as the unambiguous right thing to do. Zoro continuing to fight against Mihawk knowing that he was completely outmatched and about to die, unambiguous right thing to do.

What Sanji did on WCI was never portrayed as the right thing to do. It literally accomplished nothing and saved no one. Big Mom had lied to him and was going to kill the Strawhats anyway. Sanji and his family would have died anyway.

Sanji was unarguably totally in the wrong for not trusting Luffy and giving up, and he had to accept that later in the arc.

In the meantime, the admirable figure is Luffy, who refuses to give up on Sanji, and against all the odds tries to fight Big Mom’s army, tries to rip off his own arm to escape prison to save Sanji, and says if he needs to he’ll go back to East Blue and fight to protect Baratie.

That’s why Luffy’s haki is much stronger than Sanji’s. He’ll do the seemingly impossible route and try and fight, but that gets rewarded in the end. Giving up is not rewarded. It ended up with Sanji crying outside Pudding’s bedroom and planning

 

[Sir Yasheen]

You are really not getting this. I’ve already said it.



I did not say what Sanji did when he gave up in WCI was not, by real world standards, rational and logical.

I am saying that in the OP world, Oda has made it very clear that it is considered to be more impressive to choose the seemingly irrational path and put all your faith in yourself. That is the sign of people with the greatest willpower, and the greater the willpower, the stronger you are.

This is a series where Oda portrays it as a good thing to fight against seemingly unbeatable odds. Zoro fighting Mihawk, where he was certain to die, is portrayed as the unambiguous right thing to do. Zoro continuing to fight against Mihawk knowing that he was completely outmatched and about to die, unambiguous right thing to do.

What Sanji did on WCI was never portrayed as the right thing to do. It literally accomplished nothing and saved no one. Big Mom had lied to him and was going to kill the Strawhats anyway. Sanji and his family would have died anyway.

Sanji was unarguably totally in the wrong for not trusting Luffy and giving up, and he had to accept that later in the arc.

In the meantime, the admirable figure is Luffy, who refuses to give up on Sanji, and against all the odds tries to fight Big Mom’s army, tries to rip off his own arm to escape prison to save Sanji, and says if he needs to he’ll go back to East Blue and fight to protect Baratie.

That’s why Luffy’s haki is much stronger than Sanji’s. He’ll do the seemingly impossible route and try and fight, but that gets rewarded in the end. Giving up is not rewarded. It ended up with Sanji crying outside Pudding’s bedroom and planning

Luffy literally got rewarded on Drum for bowing down and surrendering against their militia. Y’all really just talking out your ass

 

[Juanpiz]

Luffy literally got rewarded on Drum for bowing down and surrendering against their militia. Y’all really just talking out your ass

We Could Count and mention contradictions all day

 

[Blazing Lion]

You are really not getting this. I’ve already said it.



I did not say what Sanji did when he gave up in WCI was not, by real world standards, rational and logical.

I am saying that in the OP world, Oda has made it very clear that it is considered to be more impressive to choose the seemingly irrational path and put all your faith in yourself. That is the sign of people with the greatest willpower, and the greater the willpower, the stronger you are.

This is a series where Oda portrays it as a good thing to fight against seemingly unbeatable odds. Zoro fighting Mihawk, where he was certain to die, is portrayed as the unambiguous right thing to do. Zoro continuing to fight against Mihawk knowing that he was completely outmatched and about to die, unambiguous right thing to do.

What Sanji did on WCI was never portrayed as the right thing to do. It literally accomplished nothing and saved no one. Big Mom had lied to him and was going to kill the Strawhats anyway. Sanji and his family would have died anyway.

Sanji was unarguably totally in the wrong for not trusting Luffy and giving up, and he had to accept that later in the arc.

In the meantime, the admirable figure is Luffy, who refuses to give up on Sanji, and against all the odds tries to fight Big Mom’s army, tries to rip off his own arm to escape prison to save Sanji, and says if he needs to he’ll go back to East Blue and fight to protect Baratie.

That’s why Luffy’s haki is much stronger than Sanji’s. He’ll do the seemingly impossible route and try and fight, but that gets rewarded in the end. Giving up is not rewarded. It ended up with Sanji crying outside Pudding’s bedroom and planning

Cant blame Begji, he spent two years on the Okama island. He was the princess to be saved for the arc like Vivi in Alabasta, Robin in EL, Nami in AP, Shirahoshi in FMI, Rebecca in DR

 

[Garp the Fist]

Luffy literally got rewarded on Drum for bowing down and surrendering against their militia. Y’all really just talking out your ass

Jesus christ.

Did Luffy give up on his dream in Drum?

No?

Then it’s comparing apples to oranges to Sanji giving up on his dream in WCI.

 

[kurwa]

Did Luffy give up on his dream in Drum?

He gave up after Akainu fisted event

 

[Juanpiz]

He gave up after Akainu fisted event

Anybody would

 

[Garp the Fist]

Cant blame Begji, he spent two years on the Okama island. He was the princess to be saved for the arc like Vivi in Alabasta, Robin in EL, Nami in AP, Shirahoshi in FMI, Rebecca in DR

It astounds me that after 1153 chapters I am having to explain to people that in One Piece, no, it’s not a good thing to give up on your dream and it is actually better to fight overwhelming odds where you are likely to die.

 

[grey matter]

He literally says “my adventure ends here.”

I don’t know what you could call that but giving up on your dream.

Zoro’s always been content to die in the knowledge that if he lived he would achieve his dream.

That’s why Mihawk was impressed by him, that’s why he could offer his head to Kuma’s as an exchange. Sanji is willing to live having given up on his dream, Zoro is not.

If anyone thinks Zoro would ever say what Sanji said on Baratie, or what planned to do on WCI, they are living in delusion. There is a clear difference between the two, no matter how much Sanji fanboys want to deny it.

Post automatically merged: Jun 28, 2025

See the above



Don’t even know your own fave lol?

This is same as Zoro willing to forsake his dream and life, for Luffy's life.
Luffy was willing to put his dream on hold to go save Ace as well.

Tons of characters, conquerors and non conquerors alike are shown willing to die for those they care about.

The only real difference in mentality is at Baratie. Luffy and Zoro would be willing to die for their dream, Sanji wouldn't.
Though there are other conquerors who wouldn't be willing to die for their dreams either, so it's what it is.

 

[Welkin]

Jesus christ.

Did Luffy give up on his dream in Drum?

No?

Then it’s comparing apples to oranges to Sanji giving up on his dream in WCI.

Did you not say yourself that Luffy was essentially giving up on his dream by attempting to take his own life?

Without Jinbei’s influence his journey would’ve ended right there. Thats not “dying in the process” that’s dying because someone (in this case Akainu) broke your will

When Kuina died Zoro used it as motivation to fulfill their promise of becoming the World’s Greatest Swordsman

Ace died and in a moment of weakness Luffy almost killed himself

You’re using context for Luffy but foregoing context for Sanji

 

[kekaro]

Gem worthy thread by blazing lion again, laughed alot

 

[grey matter]

Did you not say yourself that Luffy was essentially giving up on his dream by attempting to take his own life?

Without Jinbei’s influence his journey would’ve ended right there. Thats not “dying in the process” that’s dying because someone (in this case Akainu) broke your will

When Kuina died Zoro used it as motivation to fulfill their promise of becoming the World’s Greatest Swordsman

Ace died and in a moment of weakness Luffy almost killed himself

You’re using context for Luffy but foregoing context for Sanji

Context is different.

Kuina just died randomly and Zoro got to know of it later.

Luffy sacrificed decades of his lifespan and went through hell to save Ace. Freed him and almost saved him (false hope). And then Ace died by taking the killshot intended for Luffy, right in his arms.
That's absolutely brutal. Guess what happens if Zoro tried his hardest to save Luffy, only for Luffy to die in his arms to a killshot intended for him.
That's the kind of shit that would break anyone in verse without support (like Jinbe in this case).

 

[Doggo]

You can’t read.

I’m saying that Sanji has the weakest CoC of the M3, because Sanji is the weakest of the M3.

Which should not be controversial to anyone with half a brain.

But Luffy > Zoro > Sanji has a tangential at best relationship to Sanji’s CoC compared to other characters.

To put some very quick numbers on it, if Luffy‘s 100, Zoro’s 90 and Sanji’s 80, Sanji’s still more impressive than everyone below 80, and that’s quite a lot.



Acting like the two minute breakdown in the immediate aftermath of Ace’s murder is the sum total of his reaction?

Luffy’s actual reaction to his defeat was to go away and train for two years to make sure that it never happened again. He didn’t just give up and say “ah well, not strong enough, guess that’s it.”

That’s why I’m saying what Kid and Law do now they have had defeats will probably give them both CoC gains. Unless they give up totally - and they won’t- overcoming it should give them a little boost.



What do you mean, “true reflection of his character?”

It is a facet of his character, that is there throughout the series. He has a lot of admirable qualities that he shares with Luffy and Zoro like grit, determination, etc.

But he does not quite have Luffy’s and Zoro’s total self belief, which is why he explicitly needed Luffy, Zoro and Zeff to kick him up the ass to get out into the world and stop him wasting his life. Which he would have done. That does separate him from Luffy and Zoro.

There’s quite a difference between Luffy having a very brief mental breakdown after the worst moment of his life, and Sanji for literal years stomping down on his ambition and dreams. Luffy’s is a brief moment of passion and grief, Sanji’s is a far more long term and deep seated. It reared its ugly head again on WCI, where he explicitly gave up on his adventure because he just couldn’t see any way out of the situation.

And again for the Sanji fanboys who will be foaming at the mouth, not having self belief equal to Luffy and Zoro =/=l having no self belief at all, or even poor self belief. Luffy and Zoro are explicitly extraordinary even among other CoC users, which is why they could impress guys like Shanks and Mihawk even back in East Blue even when they were fodder.

Nice try, If Luffy is a 100 and Zoro is a 90, Sanji will be, at worst, a 89.

Can't escape the 51/49 reality anymore, lad.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Did you not say yourself that Luffy was essentially giving up on his dream by attempting to take his own life?

Without Jinbei’s influence his journey would’ve ended right there. Thats not “dying in the process” that’s dying because someone (in this case Akainu) broke your will

When Kuina died Zoro used it as motivation to fulfill their promise of becoming the World’s Greatest Swordsman

Ace died and in a moment of weakness Luffy almost killed himself

You’re using context for Luffy but foregoing context for Sanji

No, because I think there is a huge difference between what Luffy did and what Sanji did.

Luffy was not thinking. He was lashing out wildly at everything around him, because he’d just been through a horrendously traumatic event. He wasn’t deliberately setting out to kill himself, but it was the likely result of his thoughtless rage, which is why Jinbei had to step in.

Sanji was carefully thinking about everything he was doing. He was not lashing out wildly. I am not saying he was not in tough circumstances, but he was making conscious decisions because he thought it was the best thing to do. He was totally wrong about that, and things would have went horrendously wrong for him if he had went through with giving up on his dream.

 

[Royal Kick]

Sanji was supposed to trust that Luffy could magically teleport to Baratie/Momoiro to prevent Sanji's old crew/the okamas from getting beheaded?

 

[Welkin]

Context is different.

Kuina just died randomly and Zoro got to know of it later.

Luffy sacrificed decades of his lifespan and went through hell to save Ace. Freed him and almost saved him (false hope). And then Ace died by taking the killshot intended for Luffy, right in his arms.
That's absolutely brutal. Guess what happens if Zoro tried his hardest to save Luffy, only for Luffy to die in his arms to a killshot intended for him.
That's the kind of shit that would break anyone in verse without support (like Jinbe in this case).

But that’s the point I’m making

No one has a truly unbreakable will. It isn’t even humanly possible

The whole point of characters like Moriah (who parallels Luffy) is to show the readers that no character is infallible regardless of how indomitable their will may seem

Luffy had his will broken by Akainu and was saved by Jinbei who reminded him that he still had people left behind

What if the whole crew died in the process of their journey with only Luffy left behind? What could Jinbei say to pull Luffy out of the pits of despair? Nothing

There isn’t a single character in the series with a truly unbreakable will

So claiming Sanji’s weak for “giving up” on his dream in order to save the Strawhats as well as his father figure and the cooks he grew up with is silly

Do people think Luffy wouldn’t sacrifice himself for his crew?

 

[Garp the Fist]

Sanji was supposed to trust that Luffy could magically teleport to Baratie/Momoiro to prevent Sanji's old crew/the okamas from getting beheaded?

Literally, yes, that is exactly what Oda said was the right thing to do

 

[Shyneseru]

Giving up is pretty much not in the vocabulary of the Conqueror.

Didn't Gaban give up twice now