Powers & Abilities Could it be that Zoro actually did go all out in dressrosa? Zoro doesn't know how to use asura
- Thread starter Monkey D Theories
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I thought this cursed sword argument was debunked the moment Law'a sword was revealed to be a cursed sword.
I mean luffy was swinging around a cursed sword with no asura just popping out. Law has a cursed sword and no asura. So... what?
I don't think you can find an actual reason for why Asura doesn't show up outside of Zoro doesn't need it to win.
@Monkey D Theories Look at it this way.
Zoro used Sanzen Sekai on Mihawk in East blue and NEVER USED IT AGAIN until thriller bark.
Sanzen Sekai is arguably stronger than every ability Zoro used from East blue up to thriller bark except Asura and yet Zoro we t into MULTIPLE deadly fights and never used Sanzen Sekai.
Seems very similar to what is happening now isn't it? Zoro's not used Asura for HUNDREDS of chapters even when he's gotten into deadly fights yet we assume he can use it, same as Sanzen Sekai being missing for 400 chapters yet we know Zoro could've used it.
Imagine we were reading water seven weekly and we see Zoro get molly wopped by Lucci and someone asks, "What happened to that one Secret technique Zoro used on Mihawk 300 chapters ago? Why hasn't Zoro uses Sanzen Sekai for 300 chapters? Did he forget how to use it? Can he not control it?"
And then ennie lobby ends and Zoro pulls out a whole other ridiculous ability called asura to beat kaku and the fandom just starts saying " zoro can't use Sanzen Sekai anymore. Did you see him pull out a whole other ability after all his three sword style abilities didn't work? Why didn't he try Sanzen Sekai if he could do it?"
See the similarity.
I don't think Zoro went all out against Pica because Zoro going all out usually results in him using a whole new technique to win. Zoro beat Pica with a technique from East blue.
The fight was harder than people give it credit for, but it was still a mid diff. Not a low diff as some people like to say.
In regards to Asura, it's simple in my eyes. Oda likes making Zoro use different abilities to win fights. That's the reason Sanzen Sekai didn't show up for 400 chapters. Oda made sure Zoro would get into tough fights and pull out something different to win.
The fights can be from mid diff like the Ohm fight in skypiea to the high diff like the Daz bones fight in Alabasta. Whatever the difficulty, Oda just likes making zoro use different abilities to win. It's a thing Oda just likes and there's no in story reason for it. Zoro had Sanzen Sekai for all those arcs but Oda didn't care. He wanted a new shiny different abilities from Zoro and that's what he wrote.
I think thats it.
The two actual possibilities are
1. Oda realised he can't explain Asura and wrote it off
2. Oda doesn't care and just wants Zoro to use different abilities to win fights instead of constantly jumping to his strongest just like with Sanzen Sekai.
I mean luffy was swinging around a cursed sword with no asura just popping out. Law has a cursed sword and no asura. So... what?
I don't think you can find an actual reason for why Asura doesn't show up outside of Zoro doesn't need it to win.
@Monkey D Theories Look at it this way.
Zoro used Sanzen Sekai on Mihawk in East blue and NEVER USED IT AGAIN until thriller bark.
Sanzen Sekai is arguably stronger than every ability Zoro used from East blue up to thriller bark except Asura and yet Zoro we t into MULTIPLE deadly fights and never used Sanzen Sekai.
Seems very similar to what is happening now isn't it? Zoro's not used Asura for HUNDREDS of chapters even when he's gotten into deadly fights yet we assume he can use it, same as Sanzen Sekai being missing for 400 chapters yet we know Zoro could've used it.
Imagine we were reading water seven weekly and we see Zoro get molly wopped by Lucci and someone asks, "What happened to that one Secret technique Zoro used on Mihawk 300 chapters ago? Why hasn't Zoro uses Sanzen Sekai for 300 chapters? Did he forget how to use it? Can he not control it?"
And then ennie lobby ends and Zoro pulls out a whole other ridiculous ability called asura to beat kaku and the fandom just starts saying " zoro can't use Sanzen Sekai anymore. Did you see him pull out a whole other ability after all his three sword style abilities didn't work? Why didn't he try Sanzen Sekai if he could do it?"
See the similarity.
I don't think Zoro went all out against Pica because Zoro going all out usually results in him using a whole new technique to win. Zoro beat Pica with a technique from East blue.
The fight was harder than people give it credit for, but it was still a mid diff. Not a low diff as some people like to say.
In regards to Asura, it's simple in my eyes. Oda likes making Zoro use different abilities to win fights. That's the reason Sanzen Sekai didn't show up for 400 chapters. Oda made sure Zoro would get into tough fights and pull out something different to win.
The fights can be from mid diff like the Ohm fight in skypiea to the high diff like the Daz bones fight in Alabasta. Whatever the difficulty, Oda just likes making zoro use different abilities to win. It's a thing Oda just likes and there's no in story reason for it. Zoro had Sanzen Sekai for all those arcs but Oda didn't care. He wanted a new shiny different abilities from Zoro and that's what he wrote.
I think thats it.
The two actual possibilities are
1. Oda realised he can't explain Asura and wrote it off
2. Oda doesn't care and just wants Zoro to use different abilities to win fights instead of constantly jumping to his strongest just like with Sanzen Sekai.
Well, i thinks there is a reason for zoro not frequent his usage of ashura. That being how time consuming and costly it is to draw a extra set of head and arms for every frame, at least when compare to drawing a leg on fire or someone moving at extreme speed,which can be done by adding steam and shading so that it looks brighter,etc. This is possible because the same thing happen with ssj3 in the db universe. They explicitly stated that they avoid drawing it because it is costly and time consuming. Very probable if you ask me, since oda put out chapters on a weekly (ocassionally bi weekly) basis.
He also used haki in skypiea, then he used it water seven.
No real reason to assume Zoro doesn't have control over his abilities outside of the first time he uses them.
Like Zoro trains every day. Why would he use an ability. And then when he realises he didn't master it proceed to not train to master the ability.
You would literally have to say Zoro has been constantly training for two years to master asura and JUST CAN'T. For some reason, this is an ability that two years of training can't help with. Despite things like advanced haki getting mastered in hours.
@Chessaddict
That could be possible if we didn't have an example of this in one piece already.
Zoro used Sanzen Sekai on mihawk in East blue. Then Zoro went 400 chapters fighting with weaker abilities until he used Sanzen Sekai again in thriller bark.
And Sanzen Sekai isn't hard to draw.
It's the same thing. Oda gives Zoro a very strong ability for one fight. Then when the next fight starts, he realises he wants to give Zoro another ability in order to win so he does.
It doesn't matter whether the ability he gives Zoro next is stronger or weaker than the previous one, or whether the fight itself is harder or easier that the previous one. Oda just wants the other ability and so he gives it to Zoro.
Remember thriller bark with Zoro just randomly using ability one sword style attack that sets ryuma on fire. Where did that ability come from? Where did it go? What happened to Shishi sonson, Zoro seemingly strongest one sword style? Why didn't zoro use it when fighting ryuma? Is This fire cut ability stronger than Shishi sonson?
See how much Oda doesn't really care about all these questions? He wanted zoro cut Ryuma so hard that he caught on fire. So Zoro did that. End of story.
No real reason to assume Zoro doesn't have control over his abilities outside of the first time he uses them.
Like Zoro trains every day. Why would he use an ability. And then when he realises he didn't master it proceed to not train to master the ability.
You would literally have to say Zoro has been constantly training for two years to master asura and JUST CAN'T. For some reason, this is an ability that two years of training can't help with. Despite things like advanced haki getting mastered in hours.
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@Chessaddict
That could be possible if we didn't have an example of this in one piece already.
Zoro used Sanzen Sekai on mihawk in East blue. Then Zoro went 400 chapters fighting with weaker abilities until he used Sanzen Sekai again in thriller bark.
And Sanzen Sekai isn't hard to draw.
It's the same thing. Oda gives Zoro a very strong ability for one fight. Then when the next fight starts, he realises he wants to give Zoro another ability in order to win so he does.
It doesn't matter whether the ability he gives Zoro next is stronger or weaker than the previous one, or whether the fight itself is harder or easier that the previous one. Oda just wants the other ability and so he gives it to Zoro.
Remember thriller bark with Zoro just randomly using ability one sword style attack that sets ryuma on fire. Where did that ability come from? Where did it go? What happened to Shishi sonson, Zoro seemingly strongest one sword style? Why didn't zoro use it when fighting ryuma? Is This fire cut ability stronger than Shishi sonson?
See how much Oda doesn't really care about all these questions? He wanted zoro cut Ryuma so hard that he caught on fire. So Zoro did that. End of story.
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Zoro still has Asura but just hasn't needed it.
- Pica was never on Zoro’s level, throughout the entire arc Pica kept running away from Zoro and never wanted to fight him.
- Zoro’s strongest attack isnt Three thousand worlds, yes he used it against Mihawk but that was only his strongest attack when he was in the east blue. As Zoro progressed he got stronger attacks especially when he unlocked Asura.
- People saying Zoro went all out against Pica is laughable as well. Read Zoro vs Mr 1 and Zoro vs Kaku. That’s all-out Zoro. All-out Zoro isn't him chasing someone catching them then beating them with low dif.
- Pica was never on Zoro’s level, throughout the entire arc Pica kept running away from Zoro and never wanted to fight him.
- Zoro’s strongest attack isnt Three thousand worlds, yes he used it against Mihawk but that was only his strongest attack when he was in the east blue. As Zoro progressed he got stronger attacks especially when he unlocked Asura.
- People saying Zoro went all out against Pica is laughable as well. Read Zoro vs Mr 1 and Zoro vs Kaku. That’s all-out Zoro. All-out Zoro isn't him chasing someone catching them then beating them with low dif.
Reararare..
Reaching.
Do some stretches before you do this level of reaching. Because you're just going to be hurting yourself come the end of this arc lmao.
I understand the last 2 chapters got all of you boys shook but no, Zoro mid diffed Pica at best. It was a hide and seek match, with no injuries on Zoro's part.
Watch at the end of Wano when Zoro pops tf off but for now, I would just like to say
I wish you all good fortune in the wars to come.
Reaching.
Do some stretches before you do this level of reaching. Because you're just going to be hurting yourself come the end of this arc lmao.
I understand the last 2 chapters got all of you boys shook but no, Zoro mid diffed Pica at best. It was a hide and seek match, with no injuries on Zoro's part.
Watch at the end of Wano when Zoro pops tf off but for now, I would just like to say
I wish you all good fortune in the wars to come.
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J
Current G4 >pre FS/adcoa G4~Enma Zoro>g2/g3 with adcoa+fs >~ Shuishui Zoro >= DR g2 and g3
Zoro went all out at DR and Wano pre enms,
If he didn't go all out and shown everything he mastered or created, Oda wouldn't give him Enma and 2 weeks training to grow much stronger.
Both Sanji and Zoro showed everything the learnt during TS... That's why they got PUs now
Zoro went all out at DR and Wano pre enms,
If he didn't go all out and shown everything he mastered or created, Oda wouldn't give him Enma and 2 weeks training to grow much stronger.
Both Sanji and Zoro showed everything the learnt during TS... That's why they got PUs now
Well i'm not totally against what you say but we've seen that
1) Luffy had 1 flash-back in Dressrossa and then pulled out G4 After being unable to take out Doffy with G2&3
2)In Wci,we learnt Luffy had 2 more forms up his sleeve as well as a set up for a future possible powerup in Observation haki which lead him to learn Fs.
Zoro trained two full years under Mihawk the WSS,and all high tier attacks he can use postskip is stronger versions of his preskip techniques ? I very much doubt that.
Zoro had a small flashback in Dressrossa which showed him needing to train to achieve Coa but i think it is reasonable to assume Mihawk showed him some New techniques which would help him fight high tiers in the New world,similar to what Rayleigh did with Luffy.
Zoro needs to be first pushed very hard to the point he can't do anything before having a Luffy type flashback where he recalls Mihawk's teachings and decides to use some hidden power who may have restrictions on it,explaining why he can't often use it.
For the Ashura part,i'm probably the only Zoro fan who doesn't expect anything special from it,instead i bet on some strong technique he hasn't yet used and which was taught by Mihawk.
Zoro's closed eye for example hasn't yet been adressed in the manga and is probably setup for an observation haki boost so i don't think Zoro has gone all out at all.
Well the Zoro who fought Mihawk was East blue Zoro who is much weaker than
1)Alabasta Zoro who finished Mr 1 with Shishi son son which was a breath of all things technique (haki)
2)Ennies lobby Zoro who finished Kaku with Ashura.
My point is do you want to argue that Zoro's 3000 world's attack against Mihawk in East blue is stronger than the 2 mentionned above ?
If not,then you can't Say Zoro Using it against Mihawk back in East blue means it was still his ultimate during paradise or at the end of it.
Zoro obviously became stronger over the course of his journey and developed stronger ultimate techniques.
1) Luffy had 1 flash-back in Dressrossa and then pulled out G4 After being unable to take out Doffy with G2&3
2)In Wci,we learnt Luffy had 2 more forms up his sleeve as well as a set up for a future possible powerup in Observation haki which lead him to learn Fs.
Zoro trained two full years under Mihawk the WSS,and all high tier attacks he can use postskip is stronger versions of his preskip techniques ? I very much doubt that.
Zoro had a small flashback in Dressrossa which showed him needing to train to achieve Coa but i think it is reasonable to assume Mihawk showed him some New techniques which would help him fight high tiers in the New world,similar to what Rayleigh did with Luffy.
Zoro needs to be first pushed very hard to the point he can't do anything before having a Luffy type flashback where he recalls Mihawk's teachings and decides to use some hidden power who may have restrictions on it,explaining why he can't often use it.
For the Ashura part,i'm probably the only Zoro fan who doesn't expect anything special from it,instead i bet on some strong technique he hasn't yet used and which was taught by Mihawk.
Zoro's closed eye for example hasn't yet been adressed in the manga and is probably setup for an observation haki boost so i don't think Zoro has gone all out at all.
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Well the Zoro who fought Mihawk was East blue Zoro who is much weaker than
1)Alabasta Zoro who finished Mr 1 with Shishi son son which was a breath of all things technique (haki)
2)Ennies lobby Zoro who finished Kaku with Ashura.
My point is do you want to argue that Zoro's 3000 world's attack against Mihawk in East blue is stronger than the 2 mentionned above ?
If not,then you can't Say Zoro Using it against Mihawk back in East blue means it was still his ultimate during paradise or at the end of it.
Zoro obviously became stronger over the course of his journey and developed stronger ultimate techniques.
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When you just can't accept Zoro is just too strong, you have to invent such ridiculous notions.
You are too stuck in your ways @Monkey D Theories , there's no need to go to these extents of headcanon and mental gymnastics to downplay Zoro. Just accept what is the simple fact staring at you in the face.
You are too stuck in your ways @Monkey D Theories , there's no need to go to these extents of headcanon and mental gymnastics to downplay Zoro. Just accept what is the simple fact staring at you in the face.
IMHO
Doffy underling is so weak because oda intend to show us that SHC level is above sichibukai now, look at doffy vs luffy, when luffy use g4 doffy cant touch him, this is the way oda shows 2 years training for SHC, this is forshadow that SHC is ready for yonko crew level but not on par, still have so much to do,
Even brook one shotted giolla (i forget her name)
Luffy is already on another level
While monster trio ZSJ is sichibukai/YC level
As long as he meet strong opponents ashura will show up again
Doffy underling is so weak because oda intend to show us that SHC level is above sichibukai now, look at doffy vs luffy, when luffy use g4 doffy cant touch him, this is the way oda shows 2 years training for SHC, this is forshadow that SHC is ready for yonko crew level but not on par, still have so much to do,
Even brook one shotted giolla (i forget her name)
Luffy is already on another level
While monster trio ZSJ is sichibukai/YC level
As long as he meet strong opponents ashura will show up again
It's literally not that.
I just don't think it makes sense from a writing perspective to make Zoro the only straw hat who hasn't gone all out. Its been about a decade since sabaody.
it would have cost Oda zero dollars to make Pica a worthy opponent for Zoro. So from my perspective there are two options:
Zoro fans say that Zoro hasn't used more than 10% of his power or whatever, but I don't see why Oda would do that to us.
The sheer fact that Zoro's non asura attacks are so powerful indicates that instead of spending time developing asura to the point to where he could use it casually(Like sanji and luffy with their power ups), he just focused on improving santoryu. Why would he do that? I suspect its because Zoro cannot master asura with only the sandai kitetsu.
I think at the very least, I would have had Zoro use asura before the final war of wano. But here we ware, 10 years past sabaody and no asura.
I just don't think it makes sense from a writing perspective to make Zoro the only straw hat who hasn't gone all out. Its been about a decade since sabaody.
it would have cost Oda zero dollars to make Pica a worthy opponent for Zoro. So from my perspective there are two options:
- Zoro did actually go all out in dressrosa, similar to how Sanji and jinbe went all out in fishman island
- Oda is unecessarily prolonging zoro showing his full strength
Zoro fans say that Zoro hasn't used more than 10% of his power or whatever, but I don't see why Oda would do that to us.
The sheer fact that Zoro's non asura attacks are so powerful indicates that instead of spending time developing asura to the point to where he could use it casually(Like sanji and luffy with their power ups), he just focused on improving santoryu. Why would he do that? I suspect its because Zoro cannot master asura with only the sandai kitetsu.
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I think at the very least, I would have had Zoro use asura before the final war of wano. But here we ware, 10 years past sabaody and no asura.
