Speculations Defeat order of these 5 characters
- Thread starter Definitivo
- Start date
In my honest opinion (and obviously with some bias), there are reasons why I wholeheartedly believe this is the true order:
- Kizaru + VA's
- Elbaf's villain group
- Blackbeard + Akainu
- Shanks + Mihawk
- Imu + Gorosei
Objectively, the first 2 are true. Kizaru is evidently the main aggressor in Egghead and Oda has dished out the lineup of marines assaulting the island. Elbaf is confirmed to be the next island, so if Kizaru falls here and none of the others on the list are tied to Elbaf, then it stands to assume that Elbaf has it's own problems (be it God Elbaf, Loki, Rocks, Burned Man, Underworld, Level 6 Pirates, you name it). This is objectively separate from the other groups here obviously.
Then it comes to the big controversy that is the 4 Yonko and Akainu. Note I am using Mihawk in place of Buggy here, because for all intents and purposes, Mihawk is the reason Buggy is a Yonko (we all know this). So whether or not it's all of CG that survives or just Mihawk, know that I personally consider them the same thing. So the first thing I want to bring up is relationships.
- The Marines intend to fight the RHP at some point (Ryokugyuu says this)
- Shanks and Blackbeard are fated at some point to clash
- All 4 Yonko are going after One Piece, and by virtue, the 4th RP
- Shanks and Mihawk, like Shanks and Blackbeard have unexplored history as well.
- Zoro and Mihawks obvious fated clash
- Luffy's personal beef with Akainu and Blackbeard, as well as wholehearted intent on meeting Shanks.
Assuming the 4th Poneglyph/Burned Man is the focused plot after Elbaf, then it stands to reason that Blackbeard, Akainu, Shanks and Mihawk will all be involved with Luffy here, culminating into a bigger conflict. Now, you might be asking, "why Akainu?, he's a marine". And my answer is truly Mihawk and Fujitora, because IMO, Zoro will become the WSS at the same time Luffy becomes PK (or right before).
- If Kizaru loses here, then that means there are only 2 Admirals left for Zoro and Sanji to face. Its obvious who they "should" match up with. One is calm swordsman (like 90% of Zoro fights), the other is an extreme pervert or ladies man like Mr. 2, Absalom, Queen, etc. Do the math.
- The one obviously being a Swordman, is technically rated a 3 billion berri bounty like every other Admiral (I know I know, we can't "scale" bounties, but we totally can since Oda does this anyway such as making a big deal about Katakuri's billion bounty coinciding with strength). This is in fact, lower than Mihawk's, who IS the WSS.
- If the Admirals are 3 crowns, it makes sense that Akainu (scaled in crowns) is probably 4, or 4 billion berries, so basically relative to Blackbeard's 3.996 Billion and Shanks 4.0489 Billion by being right in the middle.
- Discounting Kuzan (whom I think won't be anyone's fight save for Luffy or Koby), Shiryu IMO seems sort of relative to Admirals in portrayal, so I would expect between a 2-3 billion range for him.
- If the Zoro fanbase thinks about this logically, how would they scale Zoro facing Shiryu, Fuji and Mihawk then altogether? Shouldn't Shiryu and Fuji (in no particular order) come before Mihawk if all logic is followed in regards to the WSS here being faced last?
- Remaining pointers to Akainu and Blackbeard falling together are outlined here in my other thread: (3) Future Events - Akainu and Blackbeard are destined to lose together | Worstgen
- If you are going to use the Strawhat Fleet for any conflict, Luffy being at his biggest in terms of leading a specifically pirate army (not talking about against the WG) should be against the Marines and/or Blackbeard, since each have multiple divisions and fleets. Shanks' fleet is notoriously week, and technically wouldn't play a role.
- Finally, Luffy surpassing the Fleet Admiral does not seem to a role that should be carried "post" PK. The Pirate King is a direct effort trying to be prevented by Imu, so I feel the FA already fails their purpose as Marines. if they even allow anyone to become PK in the first place.
We aren't entirely sure if Blackbeards bounty will move again, but lets assume nothing changes from this point forward with any of them. You have, what could be, a more direct order of how things may end:
- Blackbeard: 3.996 Billion
- Akainu: 4 Billion (assumed)
- Shanks: 4.0489 Billion
Now the only reason I put Shanks and Mihawk after Akainu and Blackbeard is because Shanks' actual relevance and importance to Luffy and the plot of this story, it's not necessarily a powerscale. The "Straw Hat" essentially signifies the journey at its end and the means to surpass Shanks officially, who essentially is the living incarnation/measurement of Roger (both in evidently Haki and Fighting Prowess). I believe Shanks and his crew will survive the events of the 4th RP, and along with Mihawk, will face Luffy and crew at Laugh Tale. Not only this, but the when consider Benn Beckman, he's another "ladies man" who's not a swordsman, though far less eccentric than Ryo or Queen, etc. And IMO, Mihawk will take the role of Zoro's fight here while Sanji ends up fighting Beckman.
Finally, I place Imu and his Gorosei last with the assumption that they reside at the pinnacle of the world, even gearing us for the idea that someone like V. Nasu has other qualities that can allow him to surpass someone like Mihawk in terms of endgame strength for Zoro. But we need to see how Saturn is used in this arc to make a better estimation on how strong he is relative an Admiral in the same arc (if we even can make that estimation).
Note that at this time I do think that Imu and the WG may end up traveling to the end of GL on their flying ancient weapon, which I think is God Valley. I actually even wonder if Fuji could just bring New Marineford to the end of GL..... After all, according to Oda, the series does in fact end when One Piece is found so maybe it is justified that everyone is far closer to LT than us going backwards.
And yes, sure, there are plenty of caveats to all of this. This is just my opinion.
tldr:
- Kizaru @ Egghead
- X Villain @ Elbaf
- Blackbeard and Akainu @ Lodestar and/or New Marineford (transported by Fuji to the end of GL lol)
- Shanks and Mihawk @ Laugh Tale
- Imu and Gorosei @ God Valley
- Kizaru + VA's
- Elbaf's villain group
- Blackbeard + Akainu
- Shanks + Mihawk
- Imu + Gorosei
Objectively, the first 2 are true. Kizaru is evidently the main aggressor in Egghead and Oda has dished out the lineup of marines assaulting the island. Elbaf is confirmed to be the next island, so if Kizaru falls here and none of the others on the list are tied to Elbaf, then it stands to assume that Elbaf has it's own problems (be it God Elbaf, Loki, Rocks, Burned Man, Underworld, Level 6 Pirates, you name it). This is objectively separate from the other groups here obviously.
Then it comes to the big controversy that is the 4 Yonko and Akainu. Note I am using Mihawk in place of Buggy here, because for all intents and purposes, Mihawk is the reason Buggy is a Yonko (we all know this). So whether or not it's all of CG that survives or just Mihawk, know that I personally consider them the same thing. So the first thing I want to bring up is relationships.
- The Marines intend to fight the RHP at some point (Ryokugyuu says this)
- Shanks and Blackbeard are fated at some point to clash
- All 4 Yonko are going after One Piece, and by virtue, the 4th RP
- Shanks and Mihawk, like Shanks and Blackbeard have unexplored history as well.
- Zoro and Mihawks obvious fated clash
- Luffy's personal beef with Akainu and Blackbeard, as well as wholehearted intent on meeting Shanks.
Assuming the 4th Poneglyph/Burned Man is the focused plot after Elbaf, then it stands to reason that Blackbeard, Akainu, Shanks and Mihawk will all be involved with Luffy here, culminating into a bigger conflict. Now, you might be asking, "why Akainu?, he's a marine". And my answer is truly Mihawk and Fujitora, because IMO, Zoro will become the WSS at the same time Luffy becomes PK (or right before).
- If Kizaru loses here, then that means there are only 2 Admirals left for Zoro and Sanji to face. Its obvious who they "should" match up with. One is calm swordsman (like 90% of Zoro fights), the other is an extreme pervert or ladies man like Mr. 2, Absalom, Queen, etc. Do the math.
- The one obviously being a Swordman, is technically rated a 3 billion berri bounty like every other Admiral (I know I know, we can't "scale" bounties, but we totally can since Oda does this anyway such as making a big deal about Katakuri's billion bounty coinciding with strength). This is in fact, lower than Mihawk's, who IS the WSS.
- If the Admirals are 3 crowns, it makes sense that Akainu (scaled in crowns) is probably 4, or 4 billion berries, so basically relative to Blackbeard's 3.996 Billion and Shanks 4.0489 Billion by being right in the middle.
- Discounting Kuzan (whom I think won't be anyone's fight save for Luffy or Koby), Shiryu IMO seems sort of relative to Admirals in portrayal, so I would expect between a 2-3 billion range for him.
- If the Zoro fanbase thinks about this logically, how would they scale Zoro facing Shiryu, Fuji and Mihawk then altogether? Shouldn't Shiryu and Fuji (in no particular order) come before Mihawk if all logic is followed in regards to the WSS here being faced last?
- Remaining pointers to Akainu and Blackbeard falling together are outlined here in my other thread: (3) Future Events - Akainu and Blackbeard are destined to lose together | Worstgen
- If you are going to use the Strawhat Fleet for any conflict, Luffy being at his biggest in terms of leading a specifically pirate army (not talking about against the WG) should be against the Marines and/or Blackbeard, since each have multiple divisions and fleets. Shanks' fleet is notoriously week, and technically wouldn't play a role.
- Finally, Luffy surpassing the Fleet Admiral does not seem to a role that should be carried "post" PK. The Pirate King is a direct effort trying to be prevented by Imu, so I feel the FA already fails their purpose as Marines. if they even allow anyone to become PK in the first place.
We aren't entirely sure if Blackbeards bounty will move again, but lets assume nothing changes from this point forward with any of them. You have, what could be, a more direct order of how things may end:
- Blackbeard: 3.996 Billion
- Akainu: 4 Billion (assumed)
- Shanks: 4.0489 Billion
Now the only reason I put Shanks and Mihawk after Akainu and Blackbeard is because Shanks' actual relevance and importance to Luffy and the plot of this story, it's not necessarily a powerscale. The "Straw Hat" essentially signifies the journey at its end and the means to surpass Shanks officially, who essentially is the living incarnation/measurement of Roger (both in evidently Haki and Fighting Prowess). I believe Shanks and his crew will survive the events of the 4th RP, and along with Mihawk, will face Luffy and crew at Laugh Tale. Not only this, but the when consider Benn Beckman, he's another "ladies man" who's not a swordsman, though far less eccentric than Ryo or Queen, etc. And IMO, Mihawk will take the role of Zoro's fight here while Sanji ends up fighting Beckman.
Finally, I place Imu and his Gorosei last with the assumption that they reside at the pinnacle of the world, even gearing us for the idea that someone like V. Nasu has other qualities that can allow him to surpass someone like Mihawk in terms of endgame strength for Zoro. But we need to see how Saturn is used in this arc to make a better estimation on how strong he is relative an Admiral in the same arc (if we even can make that estimation).
Note that at this time I do think that Imu and the WG may end up traveling to the end of GL on their flying ancient weapon, which I think is God Valley. I actually even wonder if Fuji could just bring New Marineford to the end of GL..... After all, according to Oda, the series does in fact end when One Piece is found so maybe it is justified that everyone is far closer to LT than us going backwards.
And yes, sure, there are plenty of caveats to all of this. This is just my opinion.
tldr:
- Kizaru @ Egghead
- X Villain @ Elbaf
- Blackbeard and Akainu @ Lodestar and/or New Marineford (transported by Fuji to the end of GL lol)
- Shanks and Mihawk @ Laugh Tale
- Imu and Gorosei @ God Valley
I doubt odas going to have any more minor arc only villains. As such Elbaf needs a villain connected to the rest of the series.
As such, the aftermath of this arc is likely going to trigger the main conflict in Elbaf. With the straw hats openly stating their plan and Lucci snitching to the world government they all likely know that the straw hats are going to Elbaf and with Kizaru and Sakazuki being friends, Kizarus fall May force Sakazuki to make his move.
During this I genuinely thing the Blackbeard Pirates and the Red Haired Pirates are going to face off. After the Blackbeard Pirates captured Garp, I doubt Sengoku and Tsuru will merely accept this. They would want to go out and save him. However, with the Marines currently under attack by the Straw Hats and Cross Guild there’s no way they’d approve of a war against Blackbeard. As such, we know Sengoku and Shanks have a mutual respect. These two would absolutely team up to defeat Blackbeard (they’d fail)
After this both Blackbeard and Luffy would have 3 poneglyphs, and somehow the location of the fourth. That’s when these two will square off and Blackbeard gets defeated.
TLDR: I think Sakazuki and Shanks will both fall by the end of next arc (who falls first will be interchangeable) and then Blackbeard will follow after.
As such, the aftermath of this arc is likely going to trigger the main conflict in Elbaf. With the straw hats openly stating their plan and Lucci snitching to the world government they all likely know that the straw hats are going to Elbaf and with Kizaru and Sakazuki being friends, Kizarus fall May force Sakazuki to make his move.
During this I genuinely thing the Blackbeard Pirates and the Red Haired Pirates are going to face off. After the Blackbeard Pirates captured Garp, I doubt Sengoku and Tsuru will merely accept this. They would want to go out and save him. However, with the Marines currently under attack by the Straw Hats and Cross Guild there’s no way they’d approve of a war against Blackbeard. As such, we know Sengoku and Shanks have a mutual respect. These two would absolutely team up to defeat Blackbeard (they’d fail)
After this both Blackbeard and Luffy would have 3 poneglyphs, and somehow the location of the fourth. That’s when these two will square off and Blackbeard gets defeated.
TLDR: I think Sakazuki and Shanks will both fall by the end of next arc (who falls first will be interchangeable) and then Blackbeard will follow after.
I think you guys massively underestimate Shanks' relevance on the story to place him in an event where Luffy isnt even around to witness his defeat/death, and thats assuming he loses in a practically offscreened event (you know fully well Oda wouldnt or even couldnt dedicate enough time to reliably show a Yonko fully losing to another).
While I can agree on the idea that Egghead may serve as a catalyst to involve Akainu at Elbaf and serve as the arc antagonist (I personally cannot see the WG to a capacity on them fully collapsing), its extremely evident that Oda has Shanks and Blackbeard defeat the other 3 billion rookies not as a means to say they are going to fight each other alone, but that they are "just as close" to One Piece as Luffy now in one fell swoop.
Imho, it is far more likely to see them fall together than to see one or the other handled offscreen or without Luffy. The story didnt even do that for Big Mom.
While I can agree on the idea that Egghead may serve as a catalyst to involve Akainu at Elbaf and serve as the arc antagonist (I personally cannot see the WG to a capacity on them fully collapsing), its extremely evident that Oda has Shanks and Blackbeard defeat the other 3 billion rookies not as a means to say they are going to fight each other alone, but that they are "just as close" to One Piece as Luffy now in one fell swoop.
Imho, it is far more likely to see them fall together than to see one or the other handled offscreen or without Luffy. The story didnt even do that for Big Mom.
I don’t think his death will be off screened. I think it’s going to be a major moment in the story surpassing Whitebeards death and more akin to Jariayas. Oda hasn’t don’t it yet because no yonko has ever fought one another let alone a fight between two characters as important as Blackbeard and Shanks.
What oda did to big mom is much worse than this.
What oda did to big mom is much worse than this.
The 2 examples you use for major deaths are approached VERY differently by both authors, and Oda's example with Whitebeard (and Ace) had Luffy present, thats my point.
To make it this major event where Shanks loses without Luffy being around kills the entire "emotion" of the event. It worked for Naruto because there was no long standing goal of Naruto and Jiraiya meeting again after that point. Like a big part of Luffy's goals is to meet his inspiration again after so long. To not even be able to do that (i.e. witness his death if I'm accepting "that" logic), makes little sense to me
To make it this major event where Shanks loses without Luffy being around kills the entire "emotion" of the event. It worked for Naruto because there was no long standing goal of Naruto and Jiraiya meeting again after that point. Like a big part of Luffy's goals is to meet his inspiration again after so long. To not even be able to do that (i.e. witness his death if I'm accepting "that" logic), makes little sense to me
If bb doesn't fight Shanks, there is no one who can kill Shanks according to the narrative
If I'm not mistaken, the director of Red movie knows the ending of One Piece...Therefore, this movie can show us the future events
There is enough hatred between Luffy and bb, and even Garp's defeat increased it
While Imu and Luffy have not yet had a relationship of hatred...The potential death of the dragon and Shanks is necessary to create an emotional connection
Also, people always call Shanks the golden son of Oda...Therefore, Oda presents an ordinary, superficial and predictable plan for the most important character in his story
If I'm not mistaken, the director of Red movie knows the ending of One Piece...Therefore, this movie can show us the future events
There is enough hatred between Luffy and bb, and even Garp's defeat increased it
While Imu and Luffy have not yet had a relationship of hatred...The potential death of the dragon and Shanks is necessary to create an emotional connection
Also, people always call Shanks the golden son of Oda...Therefore, Oda presents an ordinary, superficial and predictable plan for the most important character in his story
Luffy was not present at Whitebeards death iirc he was already unconscious and on the other side of the bay.
And I disagree I think, the emotion would come later when Luffy avenges Shanks and reunited with him by leaving his hat on Shanks’ grave just as shanks did for Whitebeard and Ace thereby completing his promise to return the hat when he surpasses him. It would be a phenomenal bittersweet moment that’s rather fitting for the manga.
I understand why you may dislike this possibility since you’re a fan of shanks and want his impact in the story to go beyond this, and I’m possibly biased because shanks doesn’t feel like an opponent luffy can ever seriously fight. He’ll even recently we’re being told that Shanks is just the nicest guy ever to his friends.
Shanks and Luffy simultaneously fighting the man who gave them their scars just seems super fitting to me.
And I disagree I think, the emotion would come later when Luffy avenges Shanks and reunited with him by leaving his hat on Shanks’ grave just as shanks did for Whitebeard and Ace thereby completing his promise to return the hat when he surpasses him. It would be a phenomenal bittersweet moment that’s rather fitting for the manga.
I understand why you may dislike this possibility since you’re a fan of shanks and want his impact in the story to go beyond this, and I’m possibly biased because shanks doesn’t feel like an opponent luffy can ever seriously fight. He’ll even recently we’re being told that Shanks is just the nicest guy ever to his friends.
Shanks and Luffy simultaneously fighting the man who gave them their scars just seems super fitting to me.
Okay but why are we ignoring Ace lol. Also, why are we putting WB on the same emotional pedestal for the MC as Ace or Shanks? The only reason we got WBs death as emotional (to the reader) as it was, was because Luffy was there in the first place.
Ask yourself this, would Oda have given us anything in Marineford as extensive as ihe did if Luffy wasnt there?
Sorry, Im not buying the grave idea, not with how Oda consistently portrays Shanks with his enigmatic nature. Pre-timeskip Shanks? Sure. Gorosei-meeting-semi-evil-face-making Shanks? Not an offscreen character lol
Ask yourself this, would Oda have given us anything in Marineford as extensive as ihe did if Luffy wasnt there?
Sorry, Im not buying the grave idea, not with how Oda consistently portrays Shanks with his enigmatic nature. Pre-timeskip Shanks? Sure. Gorosei-meeting-semi-evil-face-making Shanks? Not an offscreen character lol
Because Whitebeards death was the single most impactful moment of the manga. Aces was big but it was not as big as whitebeards.
Luffy was a pretty minor character in Marineford. It was about whitebeard. And cmon, If shanks wasn’t supposed to be this super nice guy, why is his entire character connected to him protecting people who can’t protect themselves. No one is saying shanks will be off screened, it’s not like oda didn’t just show us Cobys entire fight with the Blackbeard Pirates.
Luffy was a pretty minor character in Marineford. It was about whitebeard. And cmon, If shanks wasn’t supposed to be this super nice guy, why is his entire character connected to him protecting people who can’t protect themselves. No one is saying shanks will be off screened, it’s not like oda didn’t just show us Cobys entire fight with the Blackbeard Pirates.
I dont agree with the Ace vs WB thing, but Im going to rephrase the question as several so you arent misunderstanding my point:
- Would Oda been able to give Whitebeard an emotional death to readers if Luffy were not present?
- We spent 30 chapters with WB, Luffy meeting him and leaving an impact. Would this have been achieved if Luffy was not there? How many chapters do you think Oda would have given to it in that case?
- Considering the above, one would have to assume that if Blackbeard and Shanks fight without Luffy present, how would he feasilbly show an entire Yonko crew as powerful as Shanks, losing to Blackbeard on page in scenes that dont involve Luffy?
I think its pretty unfair to compare Garp and sprouts escaping in 4 chapters to 2 Yonko crews that essentially would have to have a full on war were someone, magically, Blackbeard and his entire crew come out unscathed enough to full fight Luffy's crew later.
That last sentence is why I just dont buy it. There is no feasible way Oda can justify showing 2 Yonko fight, one losing, and anyone being remotely satisfied by it in either direction. We also just watched the man singlehandedly take out Kid's crew, while Blackbeard virtually needed half his captains to ambush Law. Im just not seeing the amy reason for justifying this at all right now.
And its not "fanboyism", these are objective facts in the manga
- Would Oda been able to give Whitebeard an emotional death to readers if Luffy were not present?
- We spent 30 chapters with WB, Luffy meeting him and leaving an impact. Would this have been achieved if Luffy was not there? How many chapters do you think Oda would have given to it in that case?
- Considering the above, one would have to assume that if Blackbeard and Shanks fight without Luffy present, how would he feasilbly show an entire Yonko crew as powerful as Shanks, losing to Blackbeard on page in scenes that dont involve Luffy?
I think its pretty unfair to compare Garp and sprouts escaping in 4 chapters to 2 Yonko crews that essentially would have to have a full on war were someone, magically, Blackbeard and his entire crew come out unscathed enough to full fight Luffy's crew later.
That last sentence is why I just dont buy it. There is no feasible way Oda can justify showing 2 Yonko fight, one losing, and anyone being remotely satisfied by it in either direction. We also just watched the man singlehandedly take out Kid's crew, while Blackbeard virtually needed half his captains to ambush Law. Im just not seeing the amy reason for justifying this at all right now.
And its not "fanboyism", these are objective facts in the manga
Bro Shanks absolutely destroyed Kidd and his crew.
Like he had no fucking sympathy for him.
Even Kaidou offered to let him serve him instead of just killing the mf for not obeying him immediately.
I mean Kidd definitely deserved it, because he murdered innocent people and what not, but Shanks doesn't even know about that.
Like he had no fucking sympathy for him.
Even Kaidou offered to let him serve him instead of just killing the mf for not obeying him immediately.
I mean Kidd definitely deserved it, because he murdered innocent people and what not, but Shanks doesn't even know about that.
1. Would whitebeards death be emotional without luffy? Yes. Whitebeards death would’ve been impactful with luffy there or not. Especially since whitebeard was the main character with the most amount of panels in Marineford.
2. Modern day one piece oda spent 15 chapters on just a background for Oden leading to his death. Shanks would absolutely get his own background where he voyages with roger, forms his own crew, hears luffys dream, gives him his hat all from Shanks pov. Which would still make the death impactful.
3. I don’t know what you mean by this. Most of the fights can be offscreened. Only ones that need to be shown is Shanks and the rest can be short clips of the RHP being defeated.
And why would Blackbeard need to be unscathed? That’s why I said it’ll happen concurrently with Elbaf where Luffy and Blackbeard will both be too weak to immediately continue their journey and need to stop and recuperate before their inevitable fight.
And the last paragraph is the reason. We all know Blackbeard is a more important pirate crew than Shanks’. However, Blackbeards crew has zero hype for a fight that’s supposed to be a major moment with hundreds of chapters of buildup. The Blackbeard pirates need to beat an emperor crew before they fight the Straw Hats just as the Straw Hats beat their own emperor crew. Luffys not going into this fight with more hype than the BB Pirates.
[automerge]1692300984[/automerge]
Shanks acted like that for two reasons:
1. He first had Yasopp double check that kid pirates were fully healed from wano.
2. Kid attacked the people under his protection first.
If kid had been injured Shanks would’ve held back, and if Kid hadn’t attacked shanks wouldn’t have attacked at all.
That’s not the actions of a man we’re supposed to want to lose like Kaido.
2. Modern day one piece oda spent 15 chapters on just a background for Oden leading to his death. Shanks would absolutely get his own background where he voyages with roger, forms his own crew, hears luffys dream, gives him his hat all from Shanks pov. Which would still make the death impactful.
3. I don’t know what you mean by this. Most of the fights can be offscreened. Only ones that need to be shown is Shanks and the rest can be short clips of the RHP being defeated.
And why would Blackbeard need to be unscathed? That’s why I said it’ll happen concurrently with Elbaf where Luffy and Blackbeard will both be too weak to immediately continue their journey and need to stop and recuperate before their inevitable fight.
And the last paragraph is the reason. We all know Blackbeard is a more important pirate crew than Shanks’. However, Blackbeards crew has zero hype for a fight that’s supposed to be a major moment with hundreds of chapters of buildup. The Blackbeard pirates need to beat an emperor crew before they fight the Straw Hats just as the Straw Hats beat their own emperor crew. Luffys not going into this fight with more hype than the BB Pirates.
[automerge]1692300984[/automerge]
Shanks acted like that for two reasons:
1. He first had Yasopp double check that kid pirates were fully healed from wano.
2. Kid attacked the people under his protection first.
If kid had been injured Shanks would’ve held back, and if Kid hadn’t attacked shanks wouldn’t have attacked at all.
That’s not the actions of a man we’re supposed to want to lose like Kaido.
The only reason Whitebeard got as much as he got was BECAUSE Luffy was there on the first place. Thats my point.....
This is not a discussion on flashbacks, this is about present time content. We've consistently had longer flashbacks in the story, Oden's is no difference really on that factor. What we havent had, save for the sole exception on arc structure in Egghead (updating us on 10+ characters, not just 2 mind you), is a full war between major, Yonko characters happening outside of Luffy's perspective.
But can we justify them? Shanks was deemed the Yonko with the strongest average crew, but Im supposed to believe as the reader that Oda can justify Blackbeard's crew just individually wiping the floor with his own?
Yeah I dont agree with this. We just waited 20 years to get Gorosei names and to be highlighted so I dont believe for a second that Shanks' crew is any less important than Blackbeard's, nor require justification to lose at the expense of another Yonko crew just because this fanbase thinks Blackbeards crew "needs" to be hyped in the end.
This is not a discussion on flashbacks, this is about present time content. We've consistently had longer flashbacks in the story, Oden's is no difference really on that factor. What we havent had, save for the sole exception on arc structure in Egghead (updating us on 10+ characters, not just 2 mind you), is a full war between major, Yonko characters happening outside of Luffy's perspective.
But can we justify them? Shanks was deemed the Yonko with the strongest average crew, but Im supposed to believe as the reader that Oda can justify Blackbeard's crew just individually wiping the floor with his own?
Yeah I dont agree with this. We just waited 20 years to get Gorosei names and to be highlighted so I dont believe for a second that Shanks' crew is any less important than Blackbeard's, nor require justification to lose at the expense of another Yonko crew just because this fanbase thinks Blackbeards crew "needs" to be hyped in the end.
IDK, does Kizaru truly lol? We are at the stage where "treating" the crew like underdogs doesn't work justifiably anymore.
I don't think Shanks is the excuse needed for that to be the case, not with how he's been portrayed at all in this story.
I gotta be honest with you, Blackbeards crew felt menacing pre-TS, now they just feel like Big Mom replacements. They even raided WCI lol. But we also have to be honest with ourselves, they were all sleezy and shat on even pre-TS. Magellan 0KO'ed them, Whitebeard destroyed Blackbeard and he needed his entire crew to load a dying Yonko with bullets. Sengoku hit them all with a huge shockwave pretty effortlessly.
They are supposed to "feel" like anti-Strawhats, i.e. underdogs in their own sleezy way.
I don't think Shanks is the excuse needed for that to be the case, not with how he's been portrayed at all in this story.
I gotta be honest with you, Blackbeards crew felt menacing pre-TS, now they just feel like Big Mom replacements. They even raided WCI lol. But we also have to be honest with ourselves, they were all sleezy and shat on even pre-TS. Magellan 0KO'ed them, Whitebeard destroyed Blackbeard and he needed his entire crew to load a dying Yonko with bullets. Sengoku hit them all with a huge shockwave pretty effortlessly.
They are supposed to "feel" like anti-Strawhats, i.e. underdogs in their own sleezy way.
Yeah. Kizarus an admiral and the admirals have insane amount of hype around them. The titanic captains really don’t which they’re supposed to. The straw hats and the BB pirates can’t both enter this fight as underdogs, so one needs to feel more intimidating than the other. And that will be the BB pirates because shonen formula.
There’s really no other way to hype them than by fighting the red haired pirates.
There’s really no other way to hype them than by fighting the red haired pirates.
As I said, they don't "need" hype lol. Their sleezy antics are going to be the shit that gives the crew trouble.
You know what has been the most common excuse I've seen for them fighting and winning? Is that they cheat to win.
How does that actually hype them in any case lol.
All I'm saying is that if Sabo, Law and Garp can make them look silly (even if the latter two lost by essentially being ganged up on), I'm not sure how we can justify Shanks, the literal godfather of broken haki, not make Blackbeard also look silly without him "cheating".
This is half the reason I expect a battle royale type clash between the Yonko in the least, because there's really no justifying their crews fighting in a way that logically states Blackbeard's crew can defeat Shanks'
Edit: Let it be known that fucking Aokiji by himself wrecked half his crew too lol.
You know what has been the most common excuse I've seen for them fighting and winning? Is that they cheat to win.
How does that actually hype them in any case lol.
All I'm saying is that if Sabo, Law and Garp can make them look silly (even if the latter two lost by essentially being ganged up on), I'm not sure how we can justify Shanks, the literal godfather of broken haki, not make Blackbeard also look silly without him "cheating".
This is half the reason I expect a battle royale type clash between the Yonko in the least, because there's really no justifying their crews fighting in a way that logically states Blackbeard's crew can defeat Shanks'
Edit: Let it be known that fucking Aokiji by himself wrecked half his crew too lol.
Last edited: