Elden Ring

[Lee Ba Shou]

I can't remember who said it cause I've seen like 7 different videos lol, but Messmer has snakes and uses flames, which are blasphemous to Marika and Golden Order. His flames are very similar to the dragon talisman as well.

Wouldn't be surprised if he was born frail and used dragon communion to gain strength, seeking Marika's approval. He's like Morgott but on steroids.

Yeah it’s strange because serpents are associated with blasphemy yet Messmer says he’ll kill anyone who doesn’t see the Grace of Gold. Very strange indeed, he doesn’t seem like a blasphemer with his words but he’s also a dragon communing serpent weilder known as “the Impaler” lol

Idk. Very strange. Theoretically Messmer seems like the child Radagon always wanted, a warrior son devoted to the Golden Order, except Messmer also seems like a violent blasphemer lol.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Yeah it’s strange because serpents are associated with blasphemy yet Messmer says he’ll kill anyone who doesn’t see the Grace of Gold. Very strange indeed, he doesn’t seem like a blasphemer with his words but he’s also a dragon communing serpent weilder known as “the Impaler” lol

Idk. Very strange. Theoretically Messmer seems like the child Radagon always wanted, a warrior son devoted to the Golden Order, except Messmer also seems like a violent blasphemer lol.

Man it's funny to think how hard everyone is theorizing about Messmer based on 30 seconds of footage and a few flavor texts.

I watched a 1 hour analysis on him and half expect all of it to be wrong

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Man it's funny to think how hard everyone is theorizing about Messmer based on 30 seconds of footage and a few flavor texts.

I watched a 1 hour analysis on him and half expect all of it to be wrong

This is what happens when you put GRRM and Miyazaki on a project together. Both of them are such excellent character writers, they did not need each other, but we got them both anyway. Lmfao

Hence a 30 second trailer producing thousands of hours worth of speculation.

 

[Uncle Van]

Yeah it’s strange because serpents are associated with blasphemy yet Messmer says he’ll kill anyone who doesn’t see the Grace of Gold. Very strange indeed, he doesn’t seem like a blasphemer with his words but he’s also a dragon communing serpent weilder known as “the Impaler” lol

Idk. Very strange. Theoretically Messmer seems like the child Radagon always wanted, a warrior son devoted to the Golden Order, except Messmer also seems like a violent blasphemer lol.

It's consistent with Marika's behavior. She locked away Morgott and Mohg for being omens, and have you noticed how there's nothing about Marika's relationship with Miquella and Malenia? Miquella loved Malenia(obviously) and Godwyn, had a good relationship with Radagon(rings of light and fundamentalism) but NOTHING about Marika.

We know the twins were born with defects.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

It's consistent with Marika's behavior. She locked away Morgott and Mohg for being omens, and have you noticed how there's nothing about Marila's relationship with Miquella and Malenia? Miquella loved Malenia(obviously) and Godwyn, had a good relationship with Radagon(rings of light and fundamentalism) but NOTHING about Marika.

We know the twins were born with defects.

Yeah it’s crazy how little we actually know about Marika given she is like the most important character. And now it turns out we don’t know shit about her because she didn’t want us to know shit about her. Lol

I expect Marika to really be an even more tragic figure than she already appears to be. I expect that old man, her father(?), was probably the one who forced/goaded Marika into becoming the GO Queen. He reminds me of Allfather Lloyd from Dark Souls, coasting off of the actions of Gwyn and his ilk to position himself as a god. I’m sure the old man being incapable of removing those Elden Ring-like spikes in his body is symbolic of how his own actions cursed himself. Like he wanted the godlike status and immortality but now he lives in constant pain and can’t remove those jagged runes from himself.

I’ve been thinking about this shit a lot lmfao.

 

[sanjikun]

Yeah it’s crazy how little we actually know about Marika given she is like the most important character. And now it turns out we don’t know shit about her because she didn’t want us to know shit about her. Lol

I expect Marika to really be an even more tragic figure than she already appears to be. I expect that old man, her father(?), was probably the one who forced/goaded Marika into becoming the GO Queen. He reminds me of Allfather Lloyd from Dark Souls, coasting off of the actions of Gwyn and his ilk to position himself as a god. I’m sure the old man being incapable of removing those Elden Ring-like spikes in his body is symbolic of how his own actions cursing himself. Like he wanted the godlike status and immortality but now he lives in constant pain and can’t remove those jagged runes from himself.

I’ve been thinking about this shit a lot lmfao.

Lol, GRRM just takes existing people and changes 1 letter. Church of Mary = Church of Marika

 

[Pot Goblin]

You REALLY want it lmao.



Ah Vendrick good point. Your damage was trash unless you collected Giant Souls. Needed 5 for max damage.

Best way to make a fresh dragon fight, have it be a second phase.





I suspect the DLC's "attack power" system will be similar but not nearly as harsh.

Aye it'll be more finely tuned I'm sure or at least I hope so lmao

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Yeah it’s crazy how little we actually know about Marika given she is like the most important character. And now it turns out we don’t know shit about her because she didn’t want us to know shit about her. Lol

I expect Marika to really be an even more tragic figure than she already appears to be. I expect that old man, her father(?), was probably the one who forced/goaded Marika into becoming the GO Queen. He reminds me of Allfather Lloyd from Dark Souls, coasting off of the actions of Gwyn and his ilk to position himself as a god. I’m sure the old man being incapable of removing those Elden Ring-like spikes in his body is symbolic of how his own actions cursing himself. Like he wanted the godlike status and immortality but now he lives in constant pain and can’t remove those jagged runes from himself.

I’ve been thinking about this shit a lot lmfao.

I expect the DLC to be to Marika what the Ringed City was for Gwyn.

Gwyn was always super ambiguous but after the Ringed City I feel like most people interpret him as a villain.

 

[Uncle Van]

Yeah it’s crazy how little we actually know about Marika given she is like the most important character. And now it turns out we don’t know shit about her because she didn’t want us to know shit about her. Lol

I expect Marika to really be an even more tragic figure than she already appears to be. I expect that old man, her father(?), was probably the one who forced/goaded Marika into becoming the GO Queen. He reminds me of Allfather Lloyd from Dark Souls, coasting off of the actions of Gwyn and his ilk to position himself as a god. I’m sure the old man being incapable of removing those Elden Ring-like spikes in his body is symbolic of how his own actions cursed himself. Like he wanted the godlike status and immortality but now he lives in constant pain and can’t remove those jagged runes from himself.

I’ve been thinking about this shit a lot lmfao.

The Shadow world was described as "the place Marika first set foot. Knowing that she's an outsider to the Lands Between and a Numen, this heavily implies Marika went there, had a war, and became a God after emerging victorious. DLC may delve into Marika's origins before the age of the erdtree.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

The Shadow world was described as "the place Marika first set foot. Knowing that she's an outsider to the Lands Between and a Numen, this heavily implies Marika went there, had a war, and became a God after emerging victorious. DLC may delve into Marika's origins before the age of the erdtree.

To be fair, "first set foot" could still fit with the idea that she was born there.

The shadow world is also described as the place the golden tree first appeared so the Golden Order was definitely not even remotely close to the power in the world that is now.

At the very least we'll definitely learn about the circumstances under which Marika became the champion/"chief god" of the Golden Order/vassal of the greater will

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

I expect the DLC to be to Marika what the Ringed City was for Gwyn.

Gwyn was always super ambiguous but after the Ringed City I feel like most people interpret him as a villain.

Well I feel like we knew a lot more about Gwyn than we knew about Marika. Even DS1 by itself gave us a shit ton of information on Gwyn. We basically knew his whole life story from just DS1 minus the Ringed City stuff (people view Gwyn as a villain from the Ringed City shit but not from DS1? Lmfao, okay I guess)

With Elden Ring, we don’t know shit about Marika. She’s the Heaven Queen. Why? She just is. She’s the Elden Lord consort. Why? She just is. The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god. Why? She just is. The Greater Will chose Marika as its Empyrean. Why? It just did. There are literally no answers to who her character is and why she is so important. With Gwyn, we knew everything we needed to know about him in order to watch his Kingdom go to shit while he desperately tries to save it and fails miserably,

But with Marika there are hints that she literally was involved with the death of her favorite child, and we have no idea how or why she would want to do this. There are also implications that her loyalists have Iji killed if you progress his questline, and…why??? And of course Gideon’s comment that Marika wants the Tarnished to struggle for eternity…why?????? We can assume answers to these questions but the game itself gives us nothing on her.

There’s just so much shit we don’t know about her, so many mysteries and unanswered questions that I’m glad this DLC is exploring her more. And I’m also glad there’s a lore reason we don’t know much about her.

Also, why is Marika viewed as the one true god when the Greater Will is a known quantity? Idfk lmfao.

 

[Uncle Van]

To be fair, "first set foot" could still fit with the idea that she was born there.

The shadow world is also described as the place the golden tree first appeared so the Golden Order was definitely not even remotely close to the power in the world that is now.

At the very least we'll definitely learn about the circumstances under which Marika became the champion/"chief god" of the Golden Order/vassal of the greater will

There's also the veil cloth thing in the skies. Looks very similar to the obscuring cloths the black knife assassins wear. Everything points to the DLC being "the point where it all began."

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Well I feel like we knew a lot more about Gwyn than we knew about Marika. Even DS1 by itself gave us a shit ton of information on Gwyn. We basically knew his whole life story from just DS1 minus the Ringed City stuff (people view Gwyn as a villain from the Ringed City shit but not from DS1? Lmfao, okay I guess)

With Elden Ring, we don’t know shit about Marika. She’s the Heaven Queen. Why? She just is. She’s the Elden Lord consort. Why? She just is. The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god. Why? She just is. The Greater Will chose Marika as its Empyrean. Why? It just did. There are literally no answers to who her character is and why she is so important. With Gwyn, we knew everything we needed to know about him in order to watch his Kingdom go to shit while he desperately tries to save it and fails miserably,

But with Marika there are hints that she literally was involved with the death of her favorite child, and we have no idea how or why she would want to do this. There are also implications that her loyalist have Iji killed if you progress his questline, and…why??? And of course Gideon’s comment that Marika wants the Tarnished to struggle for eternity…why?????? We can assume answers to these questions but the game itself gives us nothing on her.

There’s just so much shit we don’t know about her, so many mysteries and unanswered questions that I’m glad this DLC is exploring her more. And I’m also glad there’s a lore reason we don’t know much about her.

Also, why is Marika viewed as the one true god when the Greater Will is a known quantity? Idfk lmfao.

Well, we know some things about Marika with a pretty high degree of confidence.

1) Melina tells us that at some point she began to doubt the Golden Order

2) It's implied Godwyn's death was the thing that fully made her snap which resulted in (there is some speculation that Marika directed the death of Godwyn but I am extremely skeptical of these takes)

3) her breaking the Elden Ring

So we can pretty safely say that at some point she most likely lost faith in the Golden Order/Greater Will and most likely shattered the Elden Ring as an act of defiance/revolt.

To me the biggest questions are related to her origins and what exactly her connection to Radagon is as a dual identity, but we'll probably only get answers to the first question in the DLC.

 

[Uncle Van]

Well I feel like we knew a lot more about Gwyn than we knew about Marika. Even DS1 by itself gave us a shit ton of information on Gwyn. We basically knew his whole life story from just DS1 minus the Ringed City stuff (people view Gwyn as a villain from the Ringed City shit but not from DS1? Lmfao, okay I guess)

With Elden Ring, we don’t know shit about Marika. She’s the Heaven Queen. Why? She just is. She’s the Elden Lord consort. Why? She just is. The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god. Why? She just is. The Greater Will chose Marika as its Empyrean. Why? It just did. There are literally no answers to who her character is and why she is so important. With Gwyn, we knew everything we needed to know about him in order to watch his Kingdom go to shit while he desperately tries to save it and fails miserably,

But with Marika there are hints that she literally was involved with the death of her favorite child, and we have no idea how or why she would want to do this. There are also implications that her loyalists have Iji killed if you progress his questline, and…why??? And of course Gideon’s comment that Marika wants the Tarnished to struggle for eternity…why?????? We can assume answers to these questions but the game itself gives us nothing on her.

There’s just so much shit we don’t know about her, so many mysteries and unanswered questions that I’m glad this DLC is exploring her more. And I’m also glad there’s a lore reason we don’t know much about her.

Also, why is Marika viewed as the one true god when the Greater Will is a known quantity? Idfk lmfao.

Lmao your post puts in perspective just how mysterious Marika is. Just ridiculous. Gideon though, I think he's just throwing a tantrum cause he didn't like the conclusion he came to. Little bitch.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Man, it's gonna be so confusing if the DLC fleshes out Marika a ton but then we hear nothing about Radagon which will just make the dual identity shit even more confusing

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Well, we know some things about Marika with a pretty high degree of confidence.

1) Melina tells us that at some point she began to doubt the Golden Order

2) It's implied Godwyn's death was the thing that fully made her snap which resulted in (there is some speculation that Marika directed the death of Godwyn but I am extremely skeptical of these takes)

3) her breaking the Elden Ring

So we can pretty safely say that at some point she most likely lost faith in the Golden Order/Greater Will and most likely shattered the Elden Ring as an act of defiance/revolt.

To me the biggest questions are related to her origins and what exactly her connection to Radagon is as a dual identity, but we'll probably only get answers to the first question in the DLC.

Yeah but I just don’t understand why Marika even needs to be involved in this equation and never have. The Elden Lord seems like the position that really matters.

When the Greater Will needed to expand the Golden Order by force, it chose the warrior Godfrey to conquer the lands.

When the subjects of the Greater Will started to lose faith, it chose the dogmatic Radagon to revitalize and articulate the faith so the subjects would have a more concrete belief system.

Both Radagon and Godfrey served a specific purpose in serving the Greater Will. So why is Marika even necessary other than to pop out godly children for Godfrey and Radagon? Why is the Golden Order faith centered around her when the Elden Lord position is the ruling position, and when the Greater Will is the source of Marika’s power? Literally why does she even need to be in this equation at all if the Elden Lord is really the one serving the GO agenda and the Greater Will is ultimately the true God of the GO?

I will literally die on the fucking hill that Radagon and Marika were NOT always the same entity, I don’t care if the DLC proves me wrong later, I will currently die on that hill. So to that end, the Greater Will loved Radagon so much, that it literally attempted to fuse Marika and Radagon into one being so that Radagon could be its ultimate avatar. This is just how I see the story.

So if this is the case, again, why. Why is Marika needed, why can’t the GW just make Radagon its champion if it likes him so much, why does it literally need to have Marika and Radagon fuse together (which further made Marika dislike the GW as she was never a fan of Radagon).

This is the stuff the DLC needs to answer for me. This would all fit perfectly if my theory about Marika summoning the Greater Will and selling her soul to it in exchange for power theory is correct. Or rather if Marika’s father summoned this Eldritch horror and bound it to his own daughter somehow.

Lmao your post puts in perspective just how mysterious Marika is. Just ridiculous. Gideon though, I think he's just throwing a tantrum cause he didn't like the conclusion he came to. Little bitch.

Gotta give Gideon credit, he is probably the most explicitly evil character in any FROM game lol. Even the Dungeater has a humorous charm to him, and you can kind of sympathize with him because the GO itself has its evils, but not Gideon. Gideon is a true piece of shit through and through.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Yeah but I just don’t understand why Marika even needs to be involved in this equation and never have. The Elden Lord seems like the position that really matters.

When the Greater Will needed to expand the Golden Order by force, it chose the warrior Godfrey to conquer the lands.

When the subjects of the Greater Will started to lose faith, it chose the dogmatic Radagon to revitalize and articulate the faith so the subjects would have a more concrete belief system.

Both Radagon and Godfrey served a specific purpose in serving the Greater Will. So why is Marika even necessary other than to pop out godly children for Godfrey and Radagon? Why is the Golden Order faith centered around her when the Elden Lord position is the ruling position, and when the Greater Will is the source of Marika’s power? Literally why does she even need to be in this equation at all if the Elden Lord is really the one serving the GO agenda and the Greater Will is ultimately the true God of the GO?

I will literally die on the fucking hill that Radagon and Marika were NOT always the same entity, I don’t care if the DLC proves me wrong later, I will currently die on that hill. So to that end, the Greater Will loved Radagon so much, that it literally attempted to fuse Marika and Radagon into one being so that Radagon could be its ultimate avatar. This is just how I see the story.

So if this is the case, again, why. Why is Marika needed, why can’t the GW just make Radagon its champion if it likes him so much, why does it literally need to have Marika and Radagon fuse together (which further made Marika dislike the GW as she was never a fan of Radagon).

This is the stuff the DLC needs to answer for me. This would all fit perfectly if my theory about Marika summoning the Greater Will and selling her soul to it in exchange for power theory is correct. Or rather if Marika’s father summoned this Eldritch horror and bound it to his own daughter somehow.



Gotta give Gideon credit, he is probably the most explicitly evil character in any FROM game lol. Even the Dungeater has a humorous charm to him, and you can kind of sympathize with him because the GO itself has its evils, but not Gideon. Gideon is a true piece of shit through and through.

Personally, the “why Marika” question never really bothered me.

Marika is an empyrean, given that the only other empyreans are her children we can safely say they are extremely rare.

It’s not like the Greater Will can directly communicate with entities outside of the fingers, and even in the case of the fingers it’s stated to take A LONG time (thousands of moons according to Enia) to communicate with the Greater Will.

Marika’s role to the greater will is probably as a speed dial lol

 

[Uncle Van]

Gotta give Gideon credit, he is probably the most explicitly evil character in any FROM game lol. Even the Dungeater has a humorous charm to him, and you can kind of sympathize with him because the GO itself has its evils, but not Gideon. Gideon is a true piece of shit through and through.

Oh for real? Odin wannabe is a prick but the most evil? His dialog during the boss fight paints him as more pitiful than pure evil. Dont see it.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Oh for real? Odin wannabe is a prick but the most evil? His dialog during the boss fight paints him as more pitiful than pure evil. Dont see it.

He ordered the Albinauric genocide lol. He also encourages the tarnished to murder his own daughter via Selluvis’s potion.

 

[DarkestKnightofSpoilers]

He ordered the Albinauric genocide lol. He also encourages the tarnished to murder his own daughter via Selluvis’s potion.

The Albinaurics brought this upon themselves ,over 5k runes per Albinauric with golden scarab what did they expect