Controversial General Political Discussion
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- Tags #freepalestine #votebluenomatterwhat are you having fun al? are you having van al? gaolang > your fav i refuse to pay my taxes imagine thinking trump is the good guy is not paying tax sexist is van having fun al? it's over for trump life goal sister harem loli mfw kamala harris can actually win real madrid tax is the best thing ever happened to us trans rights = human rights trans women are not interested in any of you worst thread ever
*copy n paste*
Whenever it comes to religion and politics, I just mention two people: Martin Luther King Jr. and Amy McPherson.
MLK was a Baptist Christian and due to his faith, saw Captialism incapable with Christianity, since Captialism did nothing but discriminate and create poverty. He beleived America needed a radical change in values, and a radical redistribution of economic power. He was staunchly anti-war and anti-capitalist. MLK Jr. was a Christian socialist.
Amy McPherson was a conservative Christian celebrity who rose to fame in the 1910s and is known as the person who practically created Tele-evangelism(television evangelist speaker) due to her popularity using magazines and the radio. With her massive popularity, she brought about the very first American megachurch, merging conservatism with the typically progressive Christianity. She always preached about how America was under attack by immigration, evolution, atheistism, communism(in fact, she tied athiesm and communism together) and just foreign exposure overall. She was also openly xenophobic and encouraged. She almost single handidly tied a large chunk of American nationalism to conversatism and captialism by using relgiion. Any of these sound familiar?
Two Christians with completely opposite beliefs. Only one of them was true to their religion.
Pretty much yeah. You can go to the nakama thread(the 1st one I think) and search for "sexist/racist/bigot" in that thread to see a bunch of people being called those words just for saying they don't think Carrot is a good character. Judge for yourself.
Whenever it comes to religion and politics, I just mention two people: Martin Luther King Jr. and Amy McPherson.
MLK was a Baptist Christian and due to his faith, saw Captialism incapable with Christianity, since Captialism did nothing but discriminate and create poverty. He beleived America needed a radical change in values, and a radical redistribution of economic power. He was staunchly anti-war and anti-capitalist. MLK Jr. was a Christian socialist.
Amy McPherson was a conservative Christian celebrity who rose to fame in the 1910s and is known as the person who practically created Tele-evangelism(television evangelist speaker) due to her popularity using magazines and the radio. With her massive popularity, she brought about the very first American megachurch, merging conservatism with the typically progressive Christianity. She always preached about how America was under attack by immigration, evolution, atheistism, communism(in fact, she tied athiesm and communism together) and just foreign exposure overall. She was also openly xenophobic and encouraged. She almost single handidly tied a large chunk of American nationalism to conversatism and captialism by using relgiion. Any of these sound familiar?
Two Christians with completely opposite beliefs. Only one of them was true to their religion.
Pretty much yeah. You can go to the nakama thread(the 1st one I think) and search for "sexist/racist/bigot" in that thread to see a bunch of people being called those words just for saying they don't think Carrot is a good character. Judge for yourself.
- I called out the racism of one guys because he was saying racist slur about the mink. I don't recall calling anyone else that way but of course everyone jumped on that with the claim : "it just fiction it doesn't matter".
- I called out the out the toxicity of a lot of people who were actually toxic, so toxic that this little game ended up on an harrassment phenomenon so strong that even mod had to stop it at the end.
- I called out the sexism of people who were praising Yamato for their strenght and relationship to virilistic value but were taken the first chance they add to spit on their Oden identification. In fact "sexist" was not really the good word, "masculinist" was more appropriate in those cases.
I won't judge you for not liking a character. You do you. But if you use toxic rethoric to justify this, then this is problematic.
But I'm not dreaming.. I know that nothing that I said here will stick. The first occasion you will get (all of you) you will say "you are calling me X just because I disagree with you/don't like your character. This is always the same rethoric...
You guys just can't accept your shortcomings..
It's a conservative argument because it's used by conservative/transphobe/Terf, people who understand the struggles of trans people know that they won't get on your skin just because you said that you don't like penises.
Moral panic of that sort are usually coming from the right wings who is playing with fears more than facts.
- I called out the out the toxicity of a lot of people who were actually toxic, so toxic that this little game ended up on an harrassment phenomenon so strong that even mod had to stop it at the end.
- I called out the sexism of people who were praising Yamato for their strenght and relationship to virilistic value but were taken the first chance they add to spit on their Oden identification. In fact "sexist" was not really the good word, "masculinist" was more appropriate in those cases.
I won't judge you for not liking a character. You do you. But if you use toxic rethoric to justify this, then this is problematic.
But I'm not dreaming.. I know that nothing that I said here will stick. The first occasion you will get (all of you) you will say "you are calling me X just because I disagree with you/don't like your character. This is always the same rethoric...
You guys just can't accept your shortcomings..
Post automatically merged:
It's a conservative argument because it's used by conservative/transphobe/Terf, people who understand the struggles of trans people know that they won't get on your skin just because you said that you don't like penises.
Moral panic of that sort are usually coming from the right wings who is playing with fears more than facts.
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Because of this:
First, you need to understand that there are two things at play:
- The character (their persona)
- And the characterization (the way the character is written)
It perfectly okay for example to like a character but to dislike its characterization, (ex: Anakin in Star Wars) on the opposite it possible to dislike the character but to like its characterization (Dark Vader in Star Wars)
Therefore you need to understand that the view you have on a character are based on REAL LIFE values and the view you have of the characterization of a character are based on KNOWLEDGE.
Here we are talking about the "character" and my point is the following:
The way you apprehend a character in a story on a personnal manner is the same way you would in real life. Therefore hating a character is NEVER a trivial thing
In some case its logical: you can for example hate the character because they depicts real acts of negative action. For example hating Orochi because he delivered failed smile to the population is normal.
But hating a character because of masculinist/Racist/Sexist views is problematic. Because it shows the way you would treat those person in real life.
Again, note that in no way I'm talking about the characterization here.
The problem is that during that Nakama thread, the characterization was not the thing that was attacked, it was the characters (Yamato and Carrot) and the Fans of Carrot (which is also problematic.)
First, you need to understand that there are two things at play:
- The character (their persona)
- And the characterization (the way the character is written)
It perfectly okay for example to like a character but to dislike its characterization, (ex: Anakin in Star Wars) on the opposite it possible to dislike the character but to like its characterization (Dark Vader in Star Wars)
Therefore you need to understand that the view you have on a character are based on REAL LIFE values and the view you have of the characterization of a character are based on KNOWLEDGE.
Here we are talking about the "character" and my point is the following:
The way you apprehend a character in a story on a personnal manner is the same way you would in real life. Therefore hating a character is NEVER a trivial thing
In some case its logical: you can for example hate the character because they depicts real acts of negative action. For example hating Orochi because he delivered failed smile to the population is normal.
But hating a character because of masculinist/Racist/Sexist views is problematic. Because it shows the way you would treat those person in real life.
Again, note that in no way I'm talking about the characterization here.
The problem is that during that Nakama thread, the characterization was not the thing that was attacked, it was the characters (Yamato and Carrot) and the Fans of Carrot (which is also problematic.)
That's the question lmao. For a quick example, look at the post and C4N's comment immediately under, and tell me how that post is remotely sexist.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...w-members-and-the-grand-fleet.79/post-2566184
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...w-members-and-the-grand-fleet.79/post-2566184
Problem is that you don't take the context into account. Like usual..
The problem here was not the post in itself, it was wrong but not sexist. The problem was the constant repetition of said post and said rethoric that was undermining Carrot's feet specifically.
Me: "Carrot flew"
Them: "No carrot jump a bit far"
Me: "Carrot saved the strawhats"
Them: "No Carrot just jumped from ship to ship
Me: "Carrot hurt Zoro with Electro"
Them: "No Carrot merely touched him"
Me: "Carrot is constructed as important, here is 1001 evidences of it"
Them: "No Carrot is irrelevant, no data"
Me: "Carrot is a very interesting character"
Them: "No Carrot is annoying and has a loud voice"
Me: "Carrot is strong"
Them: "No she was clapped by a Yonko commander"
Me: "888 was meant to depict the Sulong of the mink and was a great Carrot Moment"
Them: "No it was just an introduction of the Sulong.
Me: "Carrot saved the strawhats multiple time on Whole cake"
Them: "No Carrot is useless"
Me: "Here are all the reason was carrot is such a well constructed character: Lore/characterization/Story/symbolism"
Them: "No Carrot is cringe"
Me: "Carrot is one of the most important Mink character"
Them: "No Carrot is just an animal, eat grass B***h*"
Etc. I could get on and on...
The problem is not one single occurence of one single post. The problem is the repetition of a clear dehumanizing, deligitimizing and reductionnistic pattern of Carrot's self, personnality, story and fits.
This dehumanization toward women and women character has a name : Sexism. (And in the case of the race being the target of that deshumanization : Racism)
The problem here was not the post in itself, it was wrong but not sexist. The problem was the constant repetition of said post and said rethoric that was undermining Carrot's feet specifically.
Me: "Carrot flew"
Them: "No carrot jump a bit far"
Me: "Carrot saved the strawhats"
Them: "No Carrot just jumped from ship to ship
Me: "Carrot hurt Zoro with Electro"
Them: "No Carrot merely touched him"
Me: "Carrot is constructed as important, here is 1001 evidences of it"
Them: "No Carrot is irrelevant, no data"
Me: "Carrot is a very interesting character"
Them: "No Carrot is annoying and has a loud voice"
Me: "Carrot is strong"
Them: "No she was clapped by a Yonko commander"
Me: "888 was meant to depict the Sulong of the mink and was a great Carrot Moment"
Them: "No it was just an introduction of the Sulong.
Me: "Carrot saved the strawhats multiple time on Whole cake"
Them: "No Carrot is useless"
Me: "Here are all the reason was carrot is such a well constructed character: Lore/characterization/Story/symbolism"
Them: "No Carrot is cringe"
Me: "Carrot is one of the most important Mink character"
Them: "No Carrot is just an animal, eat grass B***h*"
Etc. I could get on and on...
The problem is not one single occurence of one single post. The problem is the repetition of a clear dehumanizing, deligitimizing and reductionnistic pattern of Carrot's self, personnality, story and fits.
This dehumanization toward women and women character has a name : Sexism. (And in the case of the race being the target of that deshumanization : Racism)
Again, don't forget the notions of power and domination. In our society using that rethoric on men has no real effects, men are not shamed all day long under the rule of patriarchy. Women are. So even if some of those toxic element exist for men (even tho I've never seen such a dehumanization for Zoro and Sanji fans for the opposite side) those are not empoyering an already existing oppression but it does when its aimed at women.
Hence why the term "sexism". A dehumanization process on a category of the population that is already dehumanized.
Hence why the term "sexism". A dehumanization process on a category of the population that is already dehumanized.
Spoiler threads are full of trolling zoro and sanji in every means possible. Just check this week spoiler lol
My point is it's agenda piece(related to wank or de-hype feats). People interpret things based on that.
If someone doesn't want carrot to join then they will interpret manga based on that.
Same extends to people who don't want yamato to join.
I have seen many females mocking or trolling sanji or zoro in derogatory ways or other female characters.
I have seen many men doing the same to a female fictional character and other male characters.
Tbh, I don't think you should look into such discussions from political perspective because they aren't making arguments with that in mind.
My point is it's agenda piece(related to wank or de-hype feats). People interpret things based on that.
If someone doesn't want carrot to join then they will interpret manga based on that.
Same extends to people who don't want yamato to join.
I have seen many females mocking or trolling sanji or zoro in derogatory ways or other female characters.
I have seen many men doing the same to a female fictional character and other male characters.
Tbh, I don't think you should look into such discussions from political perspective because they aren't making arguments with that in mind.