Controversial General Political Discussion

[HerreraIsBack]

Oh never mind him, he's just saying things to stir shit with zero arguments.

Yes, essentially the taxes and royalties go to the government, it's on them to make a new one which will make sure that the country and its citizens will benefit from this industry.

But also the Venezuelan people directly, who will have direct, indirect, and induced employment. So connected to the industry, supply chain, supporting economy, etc. etc.

Yup, my point was just to remind that things that go to governament have 0 positive impact on population. Or at least less positive impact if there was no tax.

 

[Logiko]

Capitalism is the most successful economic system out of everything which was tried in history, but if you think of something better, make a suggestion. As long as it isn't socialism.

It's not really fair to say that one system that has been hegemonic for centuries is necessarily better than a system that was never really tried and even attacked constantly by the other system thus prevent to really come to light... and it's not even counting the number of casualty that would demonstrate Capitalism as an instant failure compared to socialist systems...

 

[Roo]

yes

After a few more revolutions, they gained real freedom. Freedom they use to purposely eat snails and frogs.

The american oil companies will set up shop in Venezuela. Use the locals as cheap labor with below minimum wages. Drain the natural resources. Then get the fuck out of there.
To let them do that, the companies will bribe the new regime and politicians. The wealthy will also get a cut.
Rich get richer. Poor stay poor or get even more poor.

That's the best case scenario. Worst case is armed uprisings against the murican invaders that end in bloodshed on both sides.

We'll see what happens.

The best case scenario is pretty much the current one lmao.

 

[Natalija]

Yup, my point was just to remind that things that go to governament have 0 positive impact on population. Or at least less positive impact if there was no tax.

Well, most mining laws in Europe demand that part of the royalties go to the local communities, which in itself is great (this is not the case for US states).

Again, it depends on how the country is governed.

 

[Roo]

You've missed the entire point. Read again.

My point is that the argument of "I was born in socialist state so I KNOW it doesn't work" is a fallacy.

Before the election in the 50s in Turkey, "democracy doesn't work with Islamic populations" was a great argument too then.

I never made that argument you snail eater. I just saw where convo was going and gave logiko a headsup about nat

 

[Mathias]

It's not an argument, it's a fact in response to Roo.

If you wanna argue about socialism, we can

I didn't read Logiko's post from two posts above the quote...
Thread literally jumped over 10pages within less than a day.


France had a socialist president in the 80s with communists in its government.
It's a fact too.

 

[Natalija]

It's not really fair to say that one system that has been hegemonic for centuries is necessarily better than a system that was never really tried and even attacked constantly by the other system thus prevent to really come to light... and it's not even counting the number of casualty that would demonstrate Capitalism as an instant failure compared to socialist systems...

Which one was never tried?

 

[Logiko]

Which one was never tried?

Socialism
Never really implemented rather*

 

[Natalija]

Socialism

 

[Roo]

I didn't read Logiko's post from two posts above the quote...
Thread literally jumped over 10pages within less than a day.


France had a socialist president in the 80s with communists in its government.
It's a fact too.

that's the neat part about liberalism

communist and socialist can exist in it

 

[Logiko]

Can you tell me what is scaring you in socialism? Maybe I can clear a few fears

 

[Mathias]

Salvador Allende's socialist Chile was doing good before the Pinochet military coup too.

that's the neat part about liberalism

communist and socialist can exist in it

What do you mean exactly in the context of your reply to me saying that France had a socialist president for over a decade ?

It seems like you're talking about something else.

 

[Roo]

Salvador Allende's socialist Chile was doing good before the Pinochet military coup too.



What do you mean exactly in the context of your reply to me saying that France had a socialist president for over a decade ?

It seems like you're talking about something else.

France is basically the heart of liberalism, and the good part of liberalism is that it allows other beliefs such as communism and socialism exist within it.

Even if France had a socialist leader, it still was largely a capitalist society. Just like Mandami is a socialist who runs a hyper capitalist city.

Those things are very different than an actual socialist country, because for the most part they don't allow capitalist to exist

 

[MonochromeYoru]

The best case scenario is pretty much the current one lmao.

he was kinda good for france. but also kinda bad.

But there were revolutions after him too.

A country does not simply fix all it's problems with one single revolution. It's a long process.

 

[Roo]

he was kinda good for france. but also kinda bad.

But there were revolutions after him too.

A country does not simply fix all it's problems with one single revolution. It's a long process.

it's just funny you used probably the most unhinged revolution that lead to a bigger empire as the example lmao

 

[Mathias]

Even if France had a socialist leader, it still was largely a capitalist society. Just like Mandami is a socialist who runs a hyper capitalist city.

France after two or three years came back to capitalism because of its pussy socialist leader.
But it had a real socialist program during the elections and was applying it in the beginning.
Socialism isn't just Yugoslavia and whatnot.
I'm not even trying to make a case for Mitterrand.
But it can very well work with democracy imo.

About Mamdani : he is MAYOR and he has been in office for literally 3 days...

 

[Natalija]

Can you tell me what is scaring you in socialism? Maybe I can clear a few fears

That would take at least two days to write

It doesn't work, it always leads to economic collapse. Companies could never sink due to losses, banks would lent to failing companies, everything depended on the state, then the state went into massive debt to maintain this somehow.

THEN you get inflation and shortages as a consequence. Then the economy collapses. And then you don't have food.

 

[Roo]

France after two or three years came back to capitalism because of its pussy socialist leader.
But it had a real socialist program during the elections and was applying it in the beginning.

Socialism isn't when the goverment does stuff. What exactly do you mean by that?

Socialism's goal is generally the abolition or reduction of commodification

And no, Mamdani will never achieve anywhere near close even as Mayor because American Identity is built upon privatization

 

[Uncle Van]

"This economic system/legislation wouldn't work!"
*uses a dictatorship/authoritarian regime to prove it*

Some things never change

 

[Roo]

"This economic system/legislation wouldn't work!"
*uses a dictatorship/authoritarian regime to prove it*

Some things never change

who's this a response too?