Controversial General Political Discussion

[NAMELESS]

Except I'm no far right. Anarcho-capitalist is not far right wtf. And we never say that sgit because we want the best for people.

You ancap?
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You just implicitely said : "Politician are in the pocket of the rich or are rich themself and I don't like those who wants to tax the rich"

Dude,you can't tax the rich. They move their assets somewhere,use legal loopholes to avoid tax,pay politicians to create legislation that protects then and so on... Taxes only affect the poor. The rich will always have politicians in their pockets. Its just how things always have been. Taxing the rich is a fantasy. It can't be done.
Big corps can deal with 40% or more taxation,small business cannot. Taxation will always make the smaller guys in even greater advantage. You aimed for the rich,but your ideas actually harm the poor.

 

[Logiko]

Dude,you can't tax the rich.

Yes you can

They move their assets somewhere,use legal loopholes to avoid tax,pay politicians to create legislation that protects then and so on...

And we can boycott their product in order to make them understand. Or we can create law in order to make them comply. There is always a way.

Taxing the rich is a fantasy. It can't be done.

This only comes from people that don't want things to change. We can taxe the rich and we will.

Big corps can deal with 40% or more taxation,small business cannot.

Taxes are adaptatives, we won't taxe Bernard Arnaud the same way we will tax billy the backer.

You aimed for the rich,but your ideas actually harm the poor.

Taxing the rich means taxing the rich, not the poor. Don't try to find ways not to change things. You are taking the side of the rich here, not the poor.

 

[NAMELESS]

Yes you can



And we can boycott their product in order to make them understand. Or we can create law in order to make them comply. There is always a way.



This only comes from people that don't want things to change. We can taxe the rich and we will.



Taxes are adaptatives, we won't taxe Bernard Arnaud the same way we will tax billy the backer.



Taxing the rich means taxing the rich, not the poor. Don't try to find ways not to change things. You are taking the side of the rich here, not the poor.

i'm all for buying stuff with consciuss of who you are supporting,but...first you need to have options. Sometimes the rich have a monopoly on something or the cheapest product/service available so the average joe ends up giving money to them. Example:most people in Brazil ahte taurus firearms,but still end up buying their products because that is what they can afford.
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Yes you can

Taxing the rich means taxing the rich, not the poor. Don't try to find ways not to change things. You are taking the side of the rich here, not the poor.

I already told you why it doesn't work and why it will never happen. You can whine all you want,but complaining about stuff doesn't change the reality of things.
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@Herrera95 non aggression principle doesn't exist ,anarcho-capitalism is bullshit.

 

[Herrera95]

It's because taxes are unbalanced and unfairly enforced genius. A system where minimum wage workers pay more taxes than billionaires is ridiculous.

This is debatable. I got poisoned by leftist thoughts and tends to believe the perfect tax system would be income taxes as the only tax and then having a flat % on everyone. Therefore everyone would pay 20% of their income. But while trying to find somewhere to debate those ideas someone told me that is unfair to have richer people paying more taxes and I can only agree with them. Why someone has to pay more because they have more money if everyone is suppose to be equal? If governament has to treat everyone as equal them everyone should pay equal to governament (that means not a % payment but only a absolute value like any bill).
I forgot I was writing this and lost thought now.

You ancap?

Of course
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@Herrera95 non aggression principle doesn't exist ,anarcho-capitalism is bullshit.

This is dumb to the levels of Logiko

 

[NAMELESS]

This is debatable. I got poisoned by leftist thoughts and tends to believe the perfect tax system would be income taxes as the only tax and then having a flat % on everyone. Therefore everyone would pay 20% of their income. But while trying to find somewhere to debate those ideas someone told me that is unfair to have richer people paying more taxes and I can only agree with them. Why someone has to pay more because they have more money if everyone is suppose to be equal? If governament has to treat everyone as equal them everyone should pay equal to governament (that means not a % payment but only a absolute value like any bill).
I forgot I was writing this and lost thought now.


Of course

Their mindset is: "Tratamento igual para os iguais e tratamento desigual para os desiguais". O rico é privilegiado, então deve pagar mais. Mentalidade socialista.
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This is debatable. I got poisoned by leftist thoughts and tends to believe the perfect tax system would be income taxes as the only tax and then having a flat % on everyone. Therefore everyone would pay 20% of their income. But while trying to find somewhere to debate those ideas someone told me that is unfair to have richer people paying more taxes and I can only agree with them. Why someone has to pay more because they have more money if everyone is suppose to be equal? If governament has to treat everyone as equal them everyone should pay equal to governament (that means not a % payment but only a absolute value like any bill).
I forgot I was writing this and lost thought now.


Of course
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This is dumb to the levels of Logiko

We already have that system going on in Brazil. it actually stimulates people to not seek more money because at the end of the day they will end up paying more taxes and depending how much they earn and how much their taxes will increase,its not worth the effort.

 

[Herrera95]

Their mindset is: "Tratamento igual para os iguais e tratamento desigual para os desiguais". O rico é privilegiado, então deve pagar mais. Mentalidade socialista.

Decide if you gonna keep English or Portuguese. Supla

 

[NAMELESS]

Decide if you gonna keep English or Portuguese. Supla

lol i didn't notice i did that. feeling lazy to translate

 

[Herrera95]

We already have that system going on in Brazil. it actually stimulates people to not seek more money because at the end of the day they will end up paying more taxes and depending how much they earn and how much their taxes will increase,its not worth the effort.

Yup North-east have more people aided by social programs than working for their money.

 

[NAMELESS]

Of course
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This is dumb to the levels of Logiko

care to elaborate?

 

[Herrera95]

care to elaborate?

The principle of non aggression is the foundation of society. We all and always worked around that. Governaments only were created to defend that principle.

 

[NAMELESS]

The principle of non aggression is the foundation of society. We all and always worked around that. Governaments only were created to defend that principle.

Yes,govs are created for that. Wihtout the gov chaos will arise. The nation will turn into a bazillion tribes that have their own laws and this will breed conflict. We need an unified law system and a police/military force to enforce it. Back in the old days,tribal like nations used to be swallowed by organized states. Study the history of the Roman Empire. If non aggression was a thing, states wouldn't go to war with each other over futile shit.

 

[Herrera95]

Yes,govs are created for that. Wihtout the gov chaos will arise. The nation will turn into a bazillion tribes that have their own laws and this will breed conflict. We need an unified law system and a police/military force to enforce it. Back in the old days,tribal like nations used to be swallowed by organized states. Study the history of the Roman Empire. If non aggression was a thing, states wouldn't go to war with each other over futile shit.

Chaos will rise without governaments? So all the wars we had so far aren't considered chaos? Sorry dude history doesn't support you.

 

[NAMELESS]

Chaos will rise without governaments? So all the wars we had so far aren't considered chaos? Sorry dude history doesn't support you.

Wars are inevitable. By chaos i mean actual safety on the streets. In places without rule of law,you can't even trust your neighboor. Look up how life in places that were War ravaged are nowadays.

 

[Herrera95]

Wars are inevitable. By chaos i mean actual safety on the streets. In places without rule of law,you can't even trust your neighboor. Look up how life in places that were War ravaged are nowadays.

You still continued your argument after saying wars are inevitable. Wow!

So do we have safety at streets? Or people are getting robbed all the time? Assaulted and stuff?

And it gets funnier because the ones defending state aka leftists are the ones who complain the most about police and army. It's so absurd.

And despite all that we still see at the south of Brazil where it gets flooded how people HELP each other DESPITE the absence or the very few presence of the state.

Humans can be as both bad or good. Is not a state that will change a thing.

 

[NAMELESS]

You still continued your argument after saying wars are inevitable. Wow!

So do we have safety at streets? Or people are getting robbed all the time? Assaulted and stuff?

And it gets funnier because the ones defending state aka leftists are the ones who complain the most about police and army. It's so absurd.

And despite all that we still see at the south of Brazil where it gets flooded how people HELP each other DESPITE the absence or the very few presence of the state.

Humans can be as both bad or good. Is not a state that will change a thing.

You are day dreaming now. War will always happen. Without states or not. Even Chimps go to war with each other. Safety on the streets=armed citizes+police forces. The biggest problem with ancap is law. How are people going to dish out punishment? For example: Are you in favor or against death penalty? Some people might believe some kids playing in their yard unauthorized is enough of a reason to shoot them.The kids family will probably think otherwise. In anarchism,people do whatever the fuck they feel like doing. This is a recipe for disaster. Anarchism is just as utopian as Communism.

 

[Logiko]

first you need to have options.

We don't have options anymore. If we keep this pace, poverty will start to become the norm, insecurity will rise and people who don't understand the problem will turn toward the far right to solve all of those problems. And this will only end very badly.

We need to tax the rich and publically shame those who prefer to sneak out if we need to. This is not an option anymore, this is one of the only solutions.

If necessary, laws needs to be created to force them to stay on territory.

Sometimes the rich have a monopoly on something or the cheapest product/service available so the average joe ends up giving money to them.

No one is untouchable.

I already told you why it doesn't work and why it will never happen.

And I told you how we can prevent that phenomenon. Yes, some might flee. That's why we need to make them stay, and it will not be by giving them gift.

This is debatable.

The fact that taxing more the poor than the rich is ridiculous is debatable ? What The actual F*ck ??

Why someone has to pay more because they have more money if everyone is suppose to be equal?

Because we live in a society where every one participate and its F. just that people who get money on the back of other people share said wealth?

You are inhuman dude if you believe that equality is supposed to let rich people get richer and poor people get poorer without creating a balance.

If you don't want to give to people, don't live with other people and create a town in the sahara desert.

In anarchism,people do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.

anarchism =/ lack of order

 

[Herrera95]

You are day dreaming now. War will always happen. Without states or not. Even Chimps go to war with each other. Safety on the streets=armed citizes+police forces. The biggest problem with ancap is law. How are people going to dish out punishment? For example: Are you in favor or against death penalty? Some people might believe some kids playing in their yard unauthorized is enough of a reason to shoot them.The kids family will probably think otherwise. In anarchism,people do whatever the fuck they feel like doing. This is a recipe for disaster. Anarchism is just as Utopian as Communism.

The absence of a state is not absence of a law or order. There will be laws that the society living in that region will dictate and whoever wants to go there will be under those laws. If you don't wanna follow those laws you just don't go there. Not much different from what it is today. The big thing is not obligate anyone to pay for a governament they doesn't want and specially not having a state to provide services they can't provide. Private initiative for everything.
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The fact that taxing more the poor than the rich is ridiculous is debatable ? What The actual F*ck ??

Who the fucking is saying that? What is debatable is how you measure the taxing. If it is absolute values or percentage values. And if it is based on income like I did or based on another measure.

Because we live in a society where every one participate and its F. just that people who get money on the back of other people share said wealth?

You are inhuman dude if you believe that equality is supposed to let rich people get richer and poor people get poorer without creating a balance.

If you don't want to give to people, don't live with other people and create a town in the sahara desert.

Ok everyone participates but why someone has to pay more than the other if that said one usually is getting less from the governament? You want rich to pay more taxes so governament can provide services for the poor while the rich barely gets one? This is far from fair.

You are the one defending systems that DOES make the richer getting richer and the poor getting poorer. I"m the revolutionary here trying to make something else.

You the one who has to live in Sahara Desert because there is no property there for you to stole so you can create your delusional society there and then comeback saying that is was a mistake.

 

[NAMELESS]

The absence of a state is not absence of a law or order. There will be laws that the society living in that region will dictate and whoever wants to go there will be under those laws. If you don't wanna follow those laws you just don't go there. Not much different from what it is today. The big thing is not obligate anyone to pay for a governament they doesn't want and specially not having a state to provide services they can't provide. Private initiative for everything.

You fail to see the problem in that. That lack of unified law will breed conflict. Read history and learn how the world worked before the creation of nation states.
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The absence of a state is not absence of a law or order. There will be laws that the society living in that region will dictate and whoever wants to go there will be under those laws. If you don't wanna follow those laws you just don't go there. Not much different from what it is today. The big thing is not obligate anyone to pay for a governament they doesn't want and specially not having a state to provide services they can't provide. Private initiative for everything.
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Who the fucking is saying that? What is debatable is how you measure the taxing. If it is absolute values or percentage values. And if it is based on income like I did or based on another measure.


Ok everyone participates but why someone has to pay more than the other if that said one usually is getting less from the governament? You want rich to pay more taxes so governament can provide services for the poor while the rich barely gets one? This is far from fair.

You are the one defending systems that DOES make the richer getting richer and the poor getting poorer. I"m the revolutionary here trying to make something else.

You the one who has to live in Sahara Desert because there is no property there for you to stole so you can create your delusional society there and then comeback saying that is was a mistake.

State=constitution,tribunals,army and police. Anything else isn't need and will create more problems.

 

[Herrera95]

You fail to see the problem in that. That lack of unified law will breed conflict. Read history and learn how the world worked before the creation of nation states.
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State=constitution,tribunals,army and police. Anything else isn't need and will create more problems.

The world was no different after creation of states if not worse. You can have everything that state has without having a state itself. It is just an intermediate making the services you want to cost more and opening an opportunity to corruption.

 

[NAMELESS]

The world was no different after creation of states if not worse. You can have everything that state has without having a state itself. It is just an intermediate making the services you want to cost more and opening an opportunity to corruption.

No way,professional armies require a level of organization and funding that small communities will never be able to have.