Controversial General Political Discussion

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Yeah of course, but what is the link with the subject?

It's just a big risk imo.

??

Why are you asking me this lol?

You know why.

 

[Logiko]

You know why.

I'm lost

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

I'm lost

Imagine being forced to bare a child and then you die and can't even see that child
And the child has to be raised without you ever being in it's life

 

[Logiko]

Imagine being forced to bare a child and then you die and can't even see that child
And the child has to be raised without you ever being in it's life

I'm completely lost. Why are you telling me this ?

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

I'm completely lost. Why are you telling me this ?

Shut up. Seriously man

 

[Logiko]

Shut up. Seriously man

You do understand that I'm pro abortion, right ?

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

You do understand that I'm pro abortion, right ?

Yeah I see I kind of misunderstood your comment now. I sincerely apologize for that.
I misread and thought you were saying you were against abortion or just didn't know which side to take

 

[Logiko]

Yeah I see I kind of misunderstood your comment now. I sincerely apologize for that.
I misread and thought you were saying you were against abortion or just didn't know which side to take

It's ok... I had a feeling.

But I felt disrespected in the coherency of my leftist radicality lmao.




FYI, if a leftist is anti-abortion, it's not a leftist

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

But I felt disrespected in the coherency of my leftist radicality lmao

I mean you definitely aren't the most logical person at times..

 

[Logiko]

I mean you definitely aren't the most logical person at times..

That's because I don't explain/vulgarize things well and there are biases against me. But I'm a rock in term of political logic and coherency.

If you radicalize one day and check my old post, you will see that everything is clear.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

That's because I don't explain things well and there is a biases against me. But I'm a rock in term of political logic and coherency.

If you radicalize one day and check my old post, you will see that everything is clear.

 

[Logiko]

You will see. (or not, it depends on your politicization) I'm not joking.

 

[Uncle Van]

This alongside the detachment thing makes me believe you and me simply have different outlooks on life in general. Not that that's bad of course.
I'm probably a more emotional person than you most of the time while you're probably just more logical. That isn't to say I don't like to apply logic to a lot of the things I'm thinking about though.
For example, going off a conversation we had before about Goodnight Punpun, you seem to like the writing while not being attached to the characters and not caring about how relatable they are whatsoever, while I consider it one of my favorite mangas both because it's just generally written very well and also because I can relate a lot to the characters (well, not in the extreme ways like when they commit a crime, but ykwim).

Nah not quite. I'm just pretty cynical. My life philosophy is that "human beings don't operate by what is right and wrong, but by what is convenient. They will do and say anything to reach that convenient outcome, whether it's obtaining materials, avoiding consequences, and/or validating their beliefs and actions. It is important to not let yourself be taken advantage of, so that you can reach your own convenient outcome" This mindset is mainly cause I was military and a cop, and regularly see the worst of humans. Emotional detachment is pretty much the only way to keep pushing with a smile.

As for the Punpun example, no I actually get emotionally attached to the characters and relate lol. Fiction is about escapism for a reason

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Nah not quite. I'm just pretty cynical. My life philosophy is that "human beings don't operate by what is right and wrong, but by what is convenient. They will do and say anything to reach that convenient outcome, whether it's obtaining materials, avoiding consequences, and/or validating their beliefs and actions. It is important to not let yourself be taken advantage of, so that you can reach your own convenient outcome" This mindset is mainly cause I was military and a cop, and regularly see the worst of humans. Emotional detachment is pretty much the only way to keep pushing with a smile.

As for the Punpun example, no I actually get emotionally attached to the characters and relate lol. Fiction is about escapism for a reason

I have a similar mindset, but I just try to be more hopeful about things and try my best to do good by others when I can. I believe that the world being the way it is is the exact reason I need to try and be a little less hateful. Though I obviously struggle with that a lot.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

While you people are debating left and right, my mind is pondering on how to emotionally detach myself from external factors including outcomes.

I feel like you're trying to imitate a certain someone

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

I feel like you're trying to imitate a certain someone

What's your banner from

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

What's your banner from

U mean signature or tag?

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

U mean signature or tag?

Signature, brain got fried there

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Signature, brain got fried there

It's Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls 1, in the style of Berserk

a tribute to Miura iirc

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

I see what you mean and you are right. It transformed into a pattern and I must stop that.

I have a problem tho, I cannot spend 2 more years just aknowledging the fact that other people's experience matter when their words are actually harmfull in an active way and when I know there is an active danger lumming over this place and overall fanbase.

It would be one thing to be patient and connect with someone who I can have conflictual yet constructive discussions with like Jew, Monster or Toby, it's another to take the time to connect with people who are doing actual harm like Ravager or Herrera even when they are not aware of it.

Here, while not being the only one to go against their rethoric, We are only two trying to bring popular education to the table and it feels like I'm "fighting" alone against this staff because I understand the most the danger of just allowing them to strive in such a space. Simply because I'm directly impacted by their rethoric.

I understood that it was almost impossible to influence them directly, so this only chance I got, is to make others understand the danger.

So what would you do if you were me and you wanted to protect new people or the fanbase from them?



Ow... that's an information I didn't have. Good to know. I can see now why resonning with him is complex.



Communism is basically a stateless and classless society where the means of production belong to the collective working force. It's a supposed society where domination of human over other human do not exist anymore.

Socialism is a supposed state of transition between capitalism and Communism. It can have multiple face since there are multiple ways of picturing said transition. The goal of socialism is to transfert the means of productions from the bourgoisie and private concentrated property to the collective working force and better the material conditions of existence of all, to a point where we end up in a communist society.. or not, some socialist can also be refomist that do not aim toward the end goal that is communist. But Socialism is a transmormative system that aims to pushes society toward better material conditions of existence.

Fascism is a form of ethnonationalist and authoritarian set of behaviors and system where different sets of values are promoted : For more information, you can read the essay of Umberto Eco on Ur-Fascism. The goal of this system is to push for the unity of the people toward a supposed better future.

The funny thing is > All three ideologies are transformative.

@ShinmenTakezo also these are the fourteen features of fascism outlined in Ur-fascism by Umberto Eco, that Logiko mentioned:






1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”


2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”




3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”



4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”




5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”



6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”



7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”



8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”




9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”




10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”




11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”




12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”




13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”




14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

Thanks for the answers.
Based on the definitions above, there are certainly fascist developments all around the world, though I don´t know how real and representative what you see online actually is...
Regarding socialism/communism, essentially, a communist nation was never achieved since every example was stuck in a socialist state and the centralization of power in a one party system? If that´s true, do you think communism on a nation level is actually achievable or is it just a utopian fantasy? I know that on a much smaller basis, it was actually implemented, e.g., a few villages and small towns in Germany, France and Spain but it seems like one a much bigger scale, the centralization of power becomes too great?
And regarding socialism/fascism, while the ideology is seemingly different, are the real world implications not similar in terms of government, control and the erasure of individualism?