Controversial General Political Discussion
- Thread starter AL sama
- Start date
- Tags #freepalestine are you having fun al? are you having van al? dei has never hurt anyone you jackass dei must go gaolang > your fav hi rej hi rejj hi rejjj is not paying tax sexist is van having fun al? life goal sister harem real madrid reloaded is innocent tax is the best thing ever happened to us trans rights = human rights trans women are not interested in any of you watch for haters weebs discussing politics lmao worst thread ever
I'm talking about the inherence of violence that is false. Killing stuff to survive doesn't make one inherently violent, it's a simple material necessity. You should be careful using evo-psy and pre-neolithical societies to justify bad political takes. Primitive human societies were actually a lot less violent and pushed toward less domination systems than today.
If anything, what prehistoric groups can teach us, it's the value of shared ressources/task and group management through needs.
Which is exactly what I'm telling you. Violence is not a question of intelligence, it's a question of domination.
As such, people with empathy and intelligence can be violent, rape or murder because they can.
The point is : The problem of violence is not our nature, it's our systems.
No. You took anthropology and twisted it to make a point about human nature. Yes the brain most likely developped because of the accesibilities to more calories and a change of diet, but it didn't make us violent. Simply more conscious and intelligent.
The first step to understand horrible action in order to stop them is to stop dehumanizing ourselves or the people who commit these actions.
Human who do horrible stuff are human like me and you, not less intelligent and not less wired. While they might dehumanize their victims, they will empathize with their own group just as well as you or me.
So the first step to stop these behavior is to stop treating people who do horrible stuff like monsters that appear out of nowhere and understand that they are every day humans that act based on a combinaison of material interests and behaviors related to domination systems..
If anything, what prehistoric groups can teach us, it's the value of shared ressources/task and group management through needs.
Which is exactly what I'm telling you. Violence is not a question of intelligence, it's a question of domination.
As such, people with empathy and intelligence can be violent, rape or murder because they can.
The point is : The problem of violence is not our nature, it's our systems.
No. You took anthropology and twisted it to make a point about human nature. Yes the brain most likely developped because of the accesibilities to more calories and a change of diet, but it didn't make us violent. Simply more conscious and intelligent.
The first step to understand horrible action in order to stop them is to stop dehumanizing ourselves or the people who commit these actions.
Human who do horrible stuff are human like me and you, not less intelligent and not less wired. While they might dehumanize their victims, they will empathize with their own group just as well as you or me.
So the first step to stop these behavior is to stop treating people who do horrible stuff like monsters that appear out of nowhere and understand that they are every day humans that act based on a combinaison of material interests and behaviors related to domination systems..
You do what you want personnally. I'm telling you what not to do if you want to stop the problem.
Treating systemic problems as individual problems is the step in the misunderstanding of the world. People who do horrible things are human. Which means that if dehumanize them, you will miss the entire reason why they act the way they do.
Remember when I told you that your vision of systemic racism was flawed? This is the same issue. Your vision individualize problems that are related to oppressive systemic structures, material interests and structures of domination. This can only make you miss the bigger picture.
You must look outside of the individuals toward systems a nd understand the material interests that play in the domination relationships. If you do that, yes, you will be angry at rapist or racists, but your focus will shift and target the domination systems that push these behaviors.
Treating systemic problems as individual problems is the step in the misunderstanding of the world. People who do horrible things are human. Which means that if dehumanize them, you will miss the entire reason why they act the way they do.
Remember when I told you that your vision of systemic racism was flawed? This is the same issue. Your vision individualize problems that are related to oppressive systemic structures, material interests and structures of domination. This can only make you miss the bigger picture.
You must look outside of the individuals toward systems a nd understand the material interests that play in the domination relationships. If you do that, yes, you will be angry at rapist or racists, but your focus will shift and target the domination systems that push these behaviors.
Anger and the urge to seek justice is one thing. But blindly falling into the dehumanization of an individual based on an event is completely different.
That's the difference between a radical leftist and everyone else, as dehumanization is what lead people to stop seeing others as human, even when they have done nothing.
Politicization is not just a tool that make you understand politics. It's a tool that makes you understand the social world to a deep level. So no matter what a person will do to me, I'll never be able to dehumanize them in my mind.
Politicizing allows us to trade dehumanization for solutions.
That's the difference between a radical leftist and everyone else, as dehumanization is what lead people to stop seeing others as human, even when they have done nothing.
Politicization is not just a tool that make you understand politics. It's a tool that makes you understand the social world to a deep level. So no matter what a person will do to me, I'll never be able to dehumanize them in my mind.
Politicizing allows us to trade dehumanization for solutions.
Primitive humans societies were less violent? Brother we have proof of actual cannibalism amongst primtivie humans lmao
This is a simple case of selective bias. We have 0 idea what kind of warfare they engaged with each other because we don’t have any historical records of it. All we can do is look at bones and a lot of them have proof of human to human violence
This is a simple case of selective bias. We have 0 idea what kind of warfare they engaged with each other because we don’t have any historical records of it. All we can do is look at bones and a lot of them have proof of human to human violence
Members of the Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) party on the Knesset National Security Committee wore noose-shaped pins during a discussion on a bill to execute Palestinian detainees.
Indeed. And we have proof of actual out group cooperation also and deep shared and organized in-groups. This is not a case for the inherent violence of humans.
And if you think cannibalism is bad, wait until I teach you a things or two about the horror that can be done under capitalism..
Humans are social sponges. Meaning that they will act through material interests based on their material condition of existence and will picked on the behavior related to the social domination system they live in.
Nothing more, nothing less. We are not violent or bad by nature. We are not good either. We are a potential of both.
Don't worry, the world can clearly make the difference between zionist and jews now. (and I think.. frankly, that we collectively learned something from history, and this makes me happy)
As for them.. yeah.. crazy how they repeat everything..
And if you think cannibalism is bad, wait until I teach you a things or two about the horror that can be done under capitalism..
Humans are social sponges. Meaning that they will act through material interests based on their material condition of existence and will picked on the behavior related to the social domination system they live in.
Nothing more, nothing less. We are not violent or bad by nature. We are not good either. We are a potential of both.
Don't worry, the world can clearly make the difference between zionist and jews now. (and I think.. frankly, that we collectively learned something from history, and this makes me happy)
As for them.. yeah.. crazy how they repeat everything..
Here we go again with “capitalism bad”. It’s impressive how hard you try to push the same trite argument in unrelated conversations 
we should make a bingo card @AverageBuggyEnjoyer
we should make a bingo card @AverageBuggyEnjoyer
Here we go again with “capitalism bad”. It’s impressive how hard you try to push the same trite argument in unrelated conversations
we should make a bingo card @AverageBuggyEnjoyer
we should make a bingo card @AverageBuggyEnjoyer
One thing I absolutely do NOT trust the world to do is make the distinction between Jews and Zionists, that’s kinda what’s gotten us into this whole fucking mess in the first place…it’s especially hard to tell when the oppressed suddenly become the oppressors, most people I’ve seen think it’s great that Jews are the ones committing war crimes for a change after centuries of being the victims of same :risicheck:
Here we go again with “capitalism bad”. It’s impressive how hard you try to push the same trite argument in unrelated conversations
we should make a bingo card @AverageBuggyEnjoyer
we should make a bingo card @AverageBuggyEnjoyer
- You think people do bad because they bad by nature.
- I think people do bad because of domination systems, material interests and material conditions
EVEN in the case where you would not understand what I say or not believe me, you should understand that you would gain a lot by listening to me here as my vision is filled with the optimism and complexity that yours is completely lacking.
Or you could simply say "I don't understand, please explain more".
I don't know, maybe we look at different things, but in the big protest and manifestations of political understanding and actions or empathy, I see a real understanding of what zionism is.
I'm obviously talking about the left here. Most rightists are not even on the "there is a genocide happening" step yet.
I don’t think people are bad, I think morality is subjective and violence isn’t always morally bad,
We are predispose to do bad things because we have hundreds of thousands of years of doing so in our genetic code. It’s why an enraged gorilla can’t even kill an old lady, yet a 10 year old boy is easily capable of murder
We are predispose to do bad things because we have hundreds of thousands of years of doing so in our genetic code. It’s why an enraged gorilla can’t even kill an old lady, yet a 10 year old boy is easily capable of murder
No. I was saying how you need to understand the world through systems rather than the result of individual behavior first. The humanization will come as a result of this switch. It's up to you to understand what your vision of others means for your vision of the world and how this vision can impact our society.
Because what can be said for "bad" people, can also be switch to talk about "good" people. Allowing your vision to see the systems instead of individuals first will make you understand how to create systems to perpetuate the good and make a real change
.. Instead of simply being surprised when someone do something horrible and doing nothing more than calling them monsters.
Being able to do bad thing if necessary because of biases or evolutionnary urge to survive is completely different as being inherently violent or bad.
We are neither. We can do bad, we can do good. Basing a political discussion based on the notion that we are necessarily or inherently violent is a dangerous slip that can lead toward horrible systems. Our focus should be on systems. It's important.
The only way I know how to simplify this concept to the maximum is this:
As individual, the rotation influence our individual path. We can break out of the circle only partly but the circle (the system) will continue. If you want to talk about violence it's this way : Violence, in our societies, CAN be the momentum and the rotating direction of this group.
It's a social phenomenon conditioned by the material condition of the group (the system, the number of individuals, the rotation, the momentum, the strenght of each bonds etc.)
Understanding this is fundamental to understand politics.
Because what can be said for "bad" people, can also be switch to talk about "good" people. Allowing your vision to see the systems instead of individuals first will make you understand how to create systems to perpetuate the good and make a real change
.. Instead of simply being surprised when someone do something horrible and doing nothing more than calling them monsters.
Being able to do bad thing if necessary because of biases or evolutionnary urge to survive is completely different as being inherently violent or bad.
We are neither. We can do bad, we can do good. Basing a political discussion based on the notion that we are necessarily or inherently violent is a dangerous slip that can lead toward horrible systems. Our focus should be on systems. It's important.
The only way I know how to simplify this concept to the maximum is this:
As individual, the rotation influence our individual path. We can break out of the circle only partly but the circle (the system) will continue. If you want to talk about violence it's this way : Violence, in our societies, CAN be the momentum and the rotating direction of this group.
It's a social phenomenon conditioned by the material condition of the group (the system, the number of individuals, the rotation, the momentum, the strenght of each bonds etc.)
Understanding this is fundamental to understand politics.
https://x.com/susanabulhawa/status/1998018616336265467
WELL this explains a lot of crap in this thread/on Shwitter
WELL this explains a lot of crap in this thread/on Shwitter
No. I was saying how you need to understand the world through systems rather than the result of individual behavior first. The humanization will come as a result of this switch. It's up to you to understand what your vision of others means for your vision of the world and how this vision can impact our society.
Because what can be said for "bad" people, can also be switch to talk about "good" people. Allowing your vision to see the systems instead of individuals first will make you understand how to create systems to perpetuate the good and make a real change
.. Instead of simply being surprised when someone do something horrible and doing nothing more than calling them monsters.
Being able to do bad thing if necessary because of biases or evolutionnary urge to survive is completely different as being inherently violent or bad.
We are neither. We can do bad, we can do good. Basing a political discussion based on the notion that we are necessarily or inherently violent is a dangerous slip that can lead toward horrible systems. Our focus should be on systems. It's important.
The only way I know how to simplify this concept to the maximum is this:
As individual, the rotation influence our individual path. We can break out of the circle only partly but the circle (the system) will continue. If you want to talk about violence it's this way : Violence, in our societies, CAN be the momentum and the rotating direction of this group.
It's a social phenomenon conditioned by the material condition of the group (the system, the number of individuals, the rotation, the momentum, the strenght of each bonds etc.)
Understanding this is fundamental to understand politics.
Because what can be said for "bad" people, can also be switch to talk about "good" people. Allowing your vision to see the systems instead of individuals first will make you understand how to create systems to perpetuate the good and make a real change
.. Instead of simply being surprised when someone do something horrible and doing nothing more than calling them monsters.
Being able to do bad thing if necessary because of biases or evolutionnary urge to survive is completely different as being inherently violent or bad.
We are neither. We can do bad, we can do good. Basing a political discussion based on the notion that we are necessarily or inherently violent is a dangerous slip that can lead toward horrible systems. Our focus should be on systems. It's important.
The only way I know how to simplify this concept to the maximum is this:
As individual, the rotation influence our individual path. We can break out of the circle only partly but the circle (the system) will continue. If you want to talk about violence it's this way : Violence, in our societies, CAN be the momentum and the rotating direction of this group.
It's a social phenomenon conditioned by the material condition of the group (the system, the number of individuals, the rotation, the momentum, the strenght of each bonds etc.)
Understanding this is fundamental to understand politics.