Speculations How could Kaido fall.

[Gargo]

Cracker was one shot by a weaker form of Gear 4. Get real. If Luffy used KKG that fight would be over in a second.

Okay. I get the Gear 4 Luffy make Luffy one of the character with the strongest offensive in the Manga. Visually it is very impressing.
But the ceiling is Katakuri.
Katakuri without future sight was "kind of" inferior to Gear 4.
Really impressive.
But Katakuri was a Yonkou 1rst mate. No stronger than that.
And not a Coat Haki specialist. An Observation Haki specialist.

I won't be pessimist by saying than Queen could match Luffy strenght but Big Mom taken it without much difficulty and I don't need to speak about Kaidou who just didn't care.

Dofflamingo is the top of people under Yonkou 3rd Mate. So there still Yonkou 2nd mate, Yonkou 1st mate and Yonkou-> Stronger.

/ Luffy did eat, run and Fight during 11 Hours

 

[ZoroGang]

I'm not convinced.

You said :

-> Kidd magnetism controlling metal in Kaidou Body
-> Law Gama Knife
-> Zoro cutting ability.

+ Luffy doing 90% of the work and the rest of the Straw Hats alliance protecting him ?

But :

Even if Luffy, Zoro ( and Kidd ) made progress.

->Luffy has been one-shot previously
->Kidd probably too and he lost against Cracker making him Yonkou 3rd mate at best
-> Zoro can be anywhere from Dofflamingo level to Yonkou 2nd mate level ( in my opinion. Yonkou 1st mate after Pica is a gap far too wide ).
-> Law lost to Dofflamingo. Beat Hawkins and Vergo. Yes he could have make progress but I don't see him stronger than a Yonkou 3rd mate.

Those 4 ones seems too Weak for me.

Zoro has no trouble with pica did not struggle or use his pre ts powerup

 

[sanjikun]

Birds eye view of what ? Do all the trees disappear ? In fact its even worse cracker has cover and luffy can only aim one way.
Cracker was > g4. Without nami luffy loses fact.

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Luffy can fly over his head from the top down and drop his attack like a nuclear bomb. What trees are you going on about?

 

[HA001]

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Luffy can fly over his head from the top down and drop his attack like a nuclear bomb. What trees are you going on about?

Why didnt he do it then ?

 

[sanjikun]

Okay. I get the Gear 4 Luffy make Luffy one of the character with the strongest offensive in the Manga. Visually it is very impressing.
But the ceiling is Katakuri.
Katakuri without future sight was "kind of" inferior to Gear 4.
Really impressive.
But Katakuri was a Yonkou 1rst mate. No stronger than that.
And not a Coat Haki specialist. An Observation Haki specialist.

I won't be pessimist by saying than Queen could match Luffy strenght but Big Mom taken it without much difficulty and I don't need to speak about Kaidou who just didn't care.

Dofflamingo is the top of people under Yonkou 3rd Mate. So there still Yonkou 2nd mate, Yonkou 1st mate and Yonkou-> Stronger.

/ Luffy did eat, run and Fight during 11 Hours

Nope. Gear 4 > Katakuri. Before Snakeman, Luffy was in much worse shape than Katakuri. 30 mins of Snakeman, and he overtook him and KOed him.

Luffy had like 10% HP before Snakeman, and Katakuri had like 50%.

Why didnt he do it then ?

Because Oda wanted to showcase Tankman. He wanted to beat 3 dudes with 3 different forms of Gear 4 before Wano.

Doffy = Boundman
Cracker = Tankman
Katakuri = Snakeman

 

[Gargo]

Zoro has no trouble with pica did not struggle or use his pre ts powerup

Okay. Zoro is far stronger than Pica. I didn't say anything different.
But If he's that strong.

Why :

-> Why didn't he defeated Pica far faster ?
-> Why did he struggled that much against Fujitora
-> Why didn't he just go and took care of Dofflamingo who was a threat to everybody
-> Why did he struggle against the Fox and Killer

🌴🌴🌴

 

[HA001]

Okay. Zoro is far stronger than Pica. I didn't say anything different.
But If he's that strong.

Why :

-> Why didn't he defeated Pica far faster ?
-> Why did he struggled that much against Fujitora
-> Why didn't he just go and took care of Dofflamingo who was a threat to everybody
-> Why did he struggle against the Fox and Killer

🌴🌴🌴

Pica ran away when they finally fought he was 1 hit.

Fujitoras an admiral.

When he went to doffy an admiral got in the way


He never wanted to hurt the fox as kawamatsu said. Yet despite being hit because of interference he one shotted kiler without his best sword.

 

[Chrono]

Nerfs....
Asspulls...
Power-ups....
Plot armour.....
Deus Ex Machina....
Convinience.....
PIS....


......

Tbh I dont know Maybe Luffy will go get lvl stronger on that:eek:

 

[HA001]

Nope. Gear 4 > Katakuri. Before Snakeman, Luffy was in much worse shape than Katakuri. 30 mins of Snakeman, and he overtook him and KOed him.

Luffy had like 10% HP before Snakeman, and Katakuri had like 50%.



Because Oda wanted to showcase Tankman. He wanted to beat 3 dudes with 3 different forms of Gear 4 before Wano.

Doffy = Boundman
Cracker = Tankman
Katakuri = Snakeman

Tankmans situational because of what nami did to the biscuits.
He wasted all that time for No reason apparently
Man says what trees ffs. They were fighting in woods.

 

[ZoroGang]

Okay. Zoro is far stronger than Pica. I didn't say anything different.
But If he's that strong.

Why :

-> Why didn't he defeated Pica far faster ?
-> Why did he struggled that much against Fujitora
-> Why didn't he just go and took care of Dofflamingo who was a threat to everybody
-> Why did he struggle against the Fox and Killer

🌴🌴🌴

Struggle that much? He got out of Fuji attack with his weakest attack
He didn’t struggle against killer and the fox he low diffed both . Plot had to take its course though

 

[Gargo]

Pica ran away when they finally fought he was 1 hit.

Fujitoras an admiral.

When he went to doffy an admiral got in the way


He never wanted to hurt the fox as kawamatsu said. Yet despite being hit because of interference he one shotted kiler without his best sword.

So you are saying to me that Zoro wasn't strong enough to pass Fujitora and beat Dofflamingo. Yes.

But if he is too weak for Fujitora, how can he be strong enough to Kaido ?

 

[HA001]

So you are saying to me that Zoro wasn't strong enough to pass Fujitora and beat Dofflamingo. Yes.

But if he is too weak for Fujitora, how can he be strong enough to Kaido ?

? Hes not going to beat kaido.
But by the time the situation calls for it he will match / surpass odens feat with enma of cutting kaido.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

it wont be because luffy punches too hard.
variety of routes here
1. hawkins ability to raise people above their limits
2. scar from oden is reopened with enma or someone else capable to leaving kaido more vulnerable to damage .
regardless luffy will spearhead the attack.
wb died but he didnt die to one person/thing. it was obvious tho who was the major reason that happened (akainu). expect a similar case for luffy here or even better.

 

[Gargo]

? Hes not going to beat kaido.
But by the time the situation calls for it he will match / surpass odens feat with enma of cutting kaido.

So, at most, we still have :

-> Luffy stronger than a Yonkou 1rst mate but One Shotted by Kaidou a few Chapters ago.
-> A Zoro strong, okay, but not enough to pass an Admiral
-> Kidd probably around 3rd mate of a Yonkou
-> Law probably around the same level, at most, but with support and special abilities.

To me it is a little light to take Kaidou out even with Luffy putting much of the Work 🌴

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

w

So, at most, we still have :

-> Luffy stronger than a Yonkou 1rst mate but One Shotted by Kaidou a few Chapters ago.
-> A Zoro strong, okay, but not enough to pass an Admiral
-> Kidd probably around 3rd mate of a Yonkou
-> Law probably around the same level, at most, but with support and special abilities.

To me it is a little light to take Kaidou out even with Luffy putting much of the Work 🌴

why are you acting like this is your first op/shonen rodeo
remember this

luffy still solo'd
get ready for a nerf

 

[Gargo]

it wont be because luffy punches too hard.
variety of routes here
1. hawkins ability to raise people above their limits
2. scar from oden is reopened with enma or someone else capable to leaving kaido more vulnerable to damage .
regardless luffy will spearhead the attack.
wb died but he didnt die to one person/thing. it was obvious tho who was the major reason that happened (akainu). expect a similar case for luffy here or even better.

I didn't think about Hawkins ability to enhance strenght.
If we combine that with Moriah Shadows, the main offensive force can have a big artificial Power Up.

🏵️🏵️🏵️🍉

Post automatically merged: Jan 20, 2020

w

why are you acting like this is your first op/shonen rodeo
remember this

luffy still solo'd
get ready for a nerf

I can't deny That.



Luffy Destroyed by Lucci a few chapters prior and defeating him after.
I was troubled by the incoherence.

Crocodile is more okay.

It's like you got a Kaiminus, a superb water Pokemon.
He fight an Onix. A Rock / Ground Pokemon but Kaiminus don't have Water moves Yet.

He is defeated.

But he come back with a water move and He won.

Spoiler: Kaiminus, Super Pokemon

☀️☀️☕

 

[uyuu]

I see a grander version of the fight against Doflamingo.

- Alternating fight of Kaidou vs Law, Kidd, Luffy, Zoro, Minks, Jimbei, whatever.

- In the alternating fight, no one can make Kaidou serious as he swats all of them.

- Big Mom vs Kaidou.

- Kaidou is weakened. The alliance makes their move.

- Law pulls of his strongest hax (Gamma Knife or Mes or Soul Switch, but the strongest version) to put Kaidou's soul inside a frog or chicken, Kidd also pulls magnetic pull inside Kaidou's brain, Zoro use Ashura with Enma to put a scar, Jimbei used strongest water manipulation to create tsunami and control the water inside Kaidou's brain to make it explode, etc.

- the haxes are working, but then Kaidou finally used Hybrid Awakening. All incapacitated.

- Big Mom (after facing King, Queen, Jack) vs Kaidou part 2. BM is killed.

- All Wano protagonists vs Kaidou's version of Raigou. Fujitora and Kuzan, Marco Vista Jozu, Hancock and Sabo, Zuunisha, all big shots which allied to Luffy arrive at Wano and use each's ultimate move to hold Kaidou's Raigou at bay alongside all protagonists.

- Luffy wakes up, powers up and unleashed something like in Bullet movie, King King King Kong Gun and penetrating haki to finally destroy Kaidou's Raigou from the inside.

- Luffy power-ups even more, accumulating all his temporary-power-up-with-future-debilitation into a single attack, beats Kaidou's strongest attack, by that move kills Kaidou, and dies a few moments after that.

- Law revive him using hax move like Operation Perennial.

 

[King7]

I feel like current Luffy can push Base Kaido further than Water Luffy did Crocodile

when Kaido blitzed Luffy , Luffy wasn't calm so he couldn't use FS or maybe even basic Observation ( Katakuri said you have to be calm for Observation to work )

if he was , it would have been a higher end of Mid Diff for Base Kaido imo . but now Luffy also has 2 levels of Armament , one which is the same type as Admirals used to block a Whitebeard's Quake , the other one can damage Kaido's insides

now i can see Luffy pushing Base Kaido further than Water Luffy did Croco easily , but the problem is Hybrid Kaido . i think Oda will assist Luffy with Enma + Asura Zoro , Law , who knows Kid as well maybe

 

[PuckTheGreat]

What set Kaidou & Lilin to a degree apart from the other top tiers is their insane durability which Luffy has found a way to bypass so Luffy beating Kaidou I think is reasonable at this point as he now possesses the means to hurt him. Kaidou himself isn’t in a completely different league from the other top tiers, he just has durability hax which makes him next to impossible to kill. Find someway around that, and he’s beatable like any other top tier.

Oda said sumin along the lines of ‘the readers won’t be satisfied if Luffy beats Kaidou coz his punch is stronger, so both he and Luffy have to find someway around it’ as a result, most people think it’s gonna be a team effort but I want y’all to think back to Luffy’s training with Ray & the reason why Luffy came up with G4 in the first place. He needed something powerful enough to take down the bigger monsters & felt that more power was the answer, which Rayleigh questioned and this logic has worked for Luffy so far till Kaidou but now, Luffy’s completely changed the way he thinks and is now prioritizing technique over power, which is what mastery over the application of armament he is learning now gives him. So in a sense, Oda has already found a way for Luffy to beat Kaidou without Luffy’s punch necessarily being stronger than Kaidou’s.

Luffy would of course get some sort of help from his crew & maybe even the Wano Samurai at some point in that fight but more likely than not it’d be them stalling Kaidou whilst Luffy’s temporarily down as opposed to anything else kinda like the Doffy fight only tho that this time, their combined effort could potentially be a threat to Kaidou as opposed to Doffy’s case on DR.

Way I see the fight going is Luffy fights Kaidou most likely with Law (Round 2) and ultimately loses but is able to hurt Kaidou, whilst all the other SHs fight their respective battles before converging at the point Luffy’s fight is happening just before Kaidou is about to kill him. Then the SHs & whoever else stalls Kaidou whilst Law tries to save Luffy (potentially with his immortal surgery). Luffy recovers & then Luffy & Kaidou have their final bout (Round 3) in which Luffy comes out victorious, turning the saying ‘In a 1 v 1 always bet on Kaidou’ on it’s head.

 

[Finalbeta]

Cracker was one shot by a weaker form of Gear 4. Get real. If Luffy used KKG that fight would be over in a second.

Not sure, Cracker is probably YC2 level whereas Luffy was 1.5