General & Others How would you make Zoro a better character?
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Zoro's character is fine WHEN he does get the panel time...if he doen't get it Oda just keeps him 100% badass in the little spotlight he has
And that's the problem... Zoro has not been involved in any bigger plots outside of Wano...he literally only appeared to smack the enemy and that's it.
Even most of his plots were about getting him away from spotlight or facing stronger people (Wicca stealing his swords...where the fuck did that lead to...not to mention Wicca was like erased from the manga)
And biggest thing of all... Zoro's theme is hard work and overcoming obstacles... and post skip has been a breeze for him... so most of what's good about Zoro...he didnt get to show
Wano Zoro has not been bad at all...but we need to see more of him and some struggles
And that's the problem... Zoro has not been involved in any bigger plots outside of Wano...he literally only appeared to smack the enemy and that's it.
Even most of his plots were about getting him away from spotlight or facing stronger people (Wicca stealing his swords...where the fuck did that lead to...not to mention Wicca was like erased from the manga)
And biggest thing of all... Zoro's theme is hard work and overcoming obstacles... and post skip has been a breeze for him... so most of what's good about Zoro...he didnt get to show
Wano Zoro has not been bad at all...but we need to see more of him and some struggles
This kinda thread is the exact example of people not knowing what they want. People complained that Zoro did not grow, that he is a static character but in the same time, they want him to revert of what he was.
How he can revert back if he did not grow?
OT: There is little left to add to Zoro as a character. We can ask for him to have more panel time but as a character the only left to add is his dream accomplishment. How he will deal with finally accomplishing his dream? Will he continue training? Will he start teaching? How will he deal with this success?
I think people should stop wanting Zoro to be an other character than Zoro. Zoro is Zoro.
How he can revert back if he did not grow?
OT: There is little left to add to Zoro as a character. We can ask for him to have more panel time but as a character the only left to add is his dream accomplishment. How he will deal with finally accomplishing his dream? Will he continue training? Will he start teaching? How will he deal with this success?
I think people should stop wanting Zoro to be an other character than Zoro. Zoro is Zoro.
No no no. I did not mean that he should be "Amazed" by powerscaling and top tiers. You misunderstood me. I meant to be amazed by the "diverse world" and the "shapes of things" and "beautiful amazing landscapes and islands" and so on.
You see. What I'm trying to say is. Look at Zoro when the crew is going to Jaya (when they saw the BIG Turtle. And then they saw the big giant shadows with wings (Shandians). and When Luffy hit Laboon. Or when the crew landed on calm belt with Sea kings sorrounding the ship. Or then go on and look at Zoro's face when the crew was flying towards Sky island, or him thinking about th probability of its existance, or so many other things where you feel that "Zoro does have the thrill of adventure" along with the crew.
This is what is making me feel like it's lacking with him now. You see him meet Tontatta for the FIRST TIME in his life, and no iconic expression. You see the crew, the entire crew AMAZED by the Giant elephant, Zou. While, Zoro is just "meh". You see the crew going hard with Ryuunuske and cheering and crying for him, and I get that it's not Zoro's character to cry for him, but it's also NOT from his character to call him "useless drawing". That's completely NOT ZORO. Rather, his proper reaction from pre-timeskip, would be him having a "silent goodbye" and trying to act tough. And not basically disses Ryuunuske AFTER he got them above.
It's a loooot of things that honestly made me feel like, some of his "adventurous and great sense of humor, and passion" is lost. Of course, I'm not talking about his passion for swordsmanship and getting powerful. that never changed. But when it comes to other aspects. the aspect of "adventure, empathy, and passionate inner fanboysm...etc" those things are LOST. And that's why I joked about him eating a failed smile DF. Because I want to see the dude smiling more often god damn it.
There are times to be serious and badass, but there are other times, when it's more fucking fun when he joins the gang of SHs on their silliness. People talk about Jinbe that he shouldn't join the SH because he's too serious and he doesn't act silly. To me, Jinbe appears to have more silliness than Zoro (post-timeskip).
Dude, even things like when Luffy used to drag Zoro with him (like when Luffy carried Zoro and Law and jumped from Dressrosa castle). The pre-timeskip Zoro would say exactly what Law said "one day, I will cut him". Now... it's just.... NOTHING.
Like dude. are you on an adventure??? or are you simply just... there. To be more powerful and just fight. Is that his whole purpose?
I'm not trying to belittle Zoro. I like him and I want him to BETTER and be fleshed out more. And when I say fleshed out. I mean it in terms of character. and NOT STRENGTH.
Sadly. It seems that Oda took the extreme with both Sanji and Zoro.
1- Sanji: He gets fleshed out a LOOOOT with character. BUT he doesn't get fleshed out in Strength, or Oda limits it a LOT.
2- Zoro: He gets flshed out a LOOOOT with strength. BUT he doesn't get fleshed out in character.
Total opposite. Pre-skip, both used to have balance in terms of fleshing out "character and strength".
You see. What I'm trying to say is. Look at Zoro when the crew is going to Jaya (when they saw the BIG Turtle. And then they saw the big giant shadows with wings (Shandians). and When Luffy hit Laboon. Or when the crew landed on calm belt with Sea kings sorrounding the ship. Or then go on and look at Zoro's face when the crew was flying towards Sky island, or him thinking about th probability of its existance, or so many other things where you feel that "Zoro does have the thrill of adventure" along with the crew.
This is what is making me feel like it's lacking with him now. You see him meet Tontatta for the FIRST TIME in his life, and no iconic expression. You see the crew, the entire crew AMAZED by the Giant elephant, Zou. While, Zoro is just "meh". You see the crew going hard with Ryuunuske and cheering and crying for him, and I get that it's not Zoro's character to cry for him, but it's also NOT from his character to call him "useless drawing". That's completely NOT ZORO. Rather, his proper reaction from pre-timeskip, would be him having a "silent goodbye" and trying to act tough. And not basically disses Ryuunuske AFTER he got them above.
It's a loooot of things that honestly made me feel like, some of his "adventurous and great sense of humor, and passion" is lost. Of course, I'm not talking about his passion for swordsmanship and getting powerful. that never changed. But when it comes to other aspects. the aspect of "adventure, empathy, and passionate inner fanboysm...etc" those things are LOST. And that's why I joked about him eating a failed smile DF. Because I want to see the dude smiling more often god damn it.
There are times to be serious and badass, but there are other times, when it's more fucking fun when he joins the gang of SHs on their silliness. People talk about Jinbe that he shouldn't join the SH because he's too serious and he doesn't act silly. To me, Jinbe appears to have more silliness than Zoro (post-timeskip).
Dude, even things like when Luffy used to drag Zoro with him (like when Luffy carried Zoro and Law and jumped from Dressrosa castle). The pre-timeskip Zoro would say exactly what Law said "one day, I will cut him". Now... it's just.... NOTHING.
Like dude. are you on an adventure??? or are you simply just... there. To be more powerful and just fight. Is that his whole purpose?
I'm not trying to belittle Zoro. I like him and I want him to BETTER and be fleshed out more. And when I say fleshed out. I mean it in terms of character. and NOT STRENGTH.
Sadly. It seems that Oda took the extreme with both Sanji and Zoro.
1- Sanji: He gets fleshed out a LOOOOT with character. BUT he doesn't get fleshed out in Strength, or Oda limits it a LOT.
2- Zoro: He gets flshed out a LOOOOT with strength. BUT he doesn't get fleshed out in character.
Total opposite. Pre-skip, both used to have balance in terms of fleshing out "character and strength".
To some here think I going to just bash Zoro for fun and games, but others failed to see that I do adore Zoro. Always do, just not mindless fanboy who think he is perfection in everything he does. He is flawed and needs work. One my issues is that I don't feel same struggle as I used to love in his pre-timeskip fights as to make me feel more caring about his battles and struggle he goes to prove his dream as reality. His pre-timeskip has not give him any favorable opponents much from Hody, Monet, and Pica as only ones he defeated.
While when it comes to facing more serious threats he either get stomped and embarrass or fight is cut short from how it shown with Fujitora, Hawkins, Kyoshiro, and so on. I would love to see more of his pre-timeskip character like others been saying on here and have fights like he used to have to truly push his limits. He could possible get one this arc as seeing Oda is pushing him for Orochi or Kyoshiro as his final opponents. I hope to see the same struggle and will he want to push himself the same I still feel with Luffy and Sanji in their fights while still good points to their characters at the same time.
I know he was trained by Mihawk, so some would say 'it should be obvious' why he isn't struggle as much anymore, but honestly doubt Mihawk taught him everything he knows and he is at his same lvl. That be boring and that is like saying Luffy is Rayleigh's lvl after timeskip which he isn't at all. He still struggle for fighting his opponents and have much to learn. I want to see that with Zoro when facing serious opponents. Not scrubs like Hody, Monet, and Pica. So far his Wano Performance made him hype tool, but looks to be something Oda doing to make him more vulnerable which I like as it shows he isn't going to easily beat anyone he face each time.
Probably at war with the others he face serious opponent his lvl and push himself more like in pre-timeskip arcs, but keeping in reasonable and logical stand-point of course.
Also would like bit more character out of him at times as I agree on his personality being a bit much like Mihawk who doesn't really scream an 'exciting' personality, so it gets dull at times as you able to read Zoro easily and it get stale at points. Not saying his personality is all bad timeskip, but it needs work to branch out than just training and wanting to fight only. Just saying.
While when it comes to facing more serious threats he either get stomped and embarrass or fight is cut short from how it shown with Fujitora, Hawkins, Kyoshiro, and so on. I would love to see more of his pre-timeskip character like others been saying on here and have fights like he used to have to truly push his limits. He could possible get one this arc as seeing Oda is pushing him for Orochi or Kyoshiro as his final opponents. I hope to see the same struggle and will he want to push himself the same I still feel with Luffy and Sanji in their fights while still good points to their characters at the same time.
I know he was trained by Mihawk, so some would say 'it should be obvious' why he isn't struggle as much anymore, but honestly doubt Mihawk taught him everything he knows and he is at his same lvl. That be boring and that is like saying Luffy is Rayleigh's lvl after timeskip which he isn't at all. He still struggle for fighting his opponents and have much to learn. I want to see that with Zoro when facing serious opponents. Not scrubs like Hody, Monet, and Pica. So far his Wano Performance made him hype tool, but looks to be something Oda doing to make him more vulnerable which I like as it shows he isn't going to easily beat anyone he face each time.
Probably at war with the others he face serious opponent his lvl and push himself more like in pre-timeskip arcs, but keeping in reasonable and logical stand-point of course.
Also would like bit more character out of him at times as I agree on his personality being a bit much like Mihawk who doesn't really scream an 'exciting' personality, so it gets dull at times as you able to read Zoro easily and it get stale at points. Not saying his personality is all bad timeskip, but it needs work to branch out than just training and wanting to fight only. Just saying.
1. Don't make him superficial about being cool and strong. Go further than that. Create and expose moments of struggle and exhaustion, of him always being the one that straightens the crew back to the purpose.
Create physical challenges along the way, opponents that is too difficult to defeat. King or Kyoshiro is a good choice. Make him fairly beaten, not that ambiguous and cowardly-writing fainting moments, make him fairly beaten. live and train further and after that, finally win in other day of the war.
Then, establish the hierarchy of strength in the crew. let go of the notion that Zoro must help Luffy against the strongest boss of each arc. Beating the enemy's first mate and being too tired to fight anymore is still sufficient for the WSS candidate. Maybe let him intervene in Luffy's individual climactic fight, but just bravely let him feel and realize the vast difference in strength in the fight, honestly let Luffy protect him in the critical fight moment against someone who is only deserved, powerlevel-wise, for PK candidate. For example Kaidou or BB or Imu.
Make him admit to Luffy that he has broken his no-loss promise, the battle against Kuma and Kizaru and other major players that have beaten him being mentioned. Make him feel that those broken promises from Zoro that strive to become WSS, should be unforgivable.
Then, make Luffy lift his burden. Luffy just has to say that he himself, as the PK candidate, has broken the promise as well. The promise not to run from anyone, but he ran (let his allies drag him away) from Fujitora. But Luffy chose to be honest about it and speak great simple quotes about renewing / repairing the promise / vow, about the great things in losing or standing back after losses, and about how a loss is an even stronger reason for us to crawl back up and bite at your dreams even harder than before, the very hardest that you can. tldr its okay for Zoro to lose.
This is the moment of rarity, where the Future WSS arose to stand back aside the Future PK with renewed promise. After Luffy creatively powers up and win against the strongest saga opponent, because of that impossible victory, make Zoro call Luffy "King" with true calm admiration for once. establish him as Luffy's First Mate who always support his captain and defend when Luffy makes decisive matters that Zoro himself proud of (usually at arc climaxes), but also make him correct Luffy when he feels that the captain's decision is too ridiculous (usually at arc beginnings or middle major turning points).
Make Zoro be able to laugh and prank when the situation is not crucial but sternly reminds Luffy about captain's role, only when there's a looming danger that is of the level capable of shaking the crew.
Make him honest with Sanji and argues further and more serious than just a physical superficial quarrel. Make him praise Sanji's strategy when it matters.
Make Zoro involved further with strawhats' everyday life outside of fighting. Expose him taking care of his swords, or newly discovering his favorite drink, or training Brook, sparring with Sanji or Chopper and evaluating their weak points or blind spots, gives him moment of talking about swords and how nostalgic the voice of Shusui when it sings at the battle, etc.
Create physical challenges along the way, opponents that is too difficult to defeat. King or Kyoshiro is a good choice. Make him fairly beaten, not that ambiguous and cowardly-writing fainting moments, make him fairly beaten. live and train further and after that, finally win in other day of the war.
Then, establish the hierarchy of strength in the crew. let go of the notion that Zoro must help Luffy against the strongest boss of each arc. Beating the enemy's first mate and being too tired to fight anymore is still sufficient for the WSS candidate. Maybe let him intervene in Luffy's individual climactic fight, but just bravely let him feel and realize the vast difference in strength in the fight, honestly let Luffy protect him in the critical fight moment against someone who is only deserved, powerlevel-wise, for PK candidate. For example Kaidou or BB or Imu.
Make him admit to Luffy that he has broken his no-loss promise, the battle against Kuma and Kizaru and other major players that have beaten him being mentioned. Make him feel that those broken promises from Zoro that strive to become WSS, should be unforgivable.
Then, make Luffy lift his burden. Luffy just has to say that he himself, as the PK candidate, has broken the promise as well. The promise not to run from anyone, but he ran (let his allies drag him away) from Fujitora. But Luffy chose to be honest about it and speak great simple quotes about renewing / repairing the promise / vow, about the great things in losing or standing back after losses, and about how a loss is an even stronger reason for us to crawl back up and bite at your dreams even harder than before, the very hardest that you can. tldr its okay for Zoro to lose.
This is the moment of rarity, where the Future WSS arose to stand back aside the Future PK with renewed promise. After Luffy creatively powers up and win against the strongest saga opponent, because of that impossible victory, make Zoro call Luffy "King" with true calm admiration for once. establish him as Luffy's First Mate who always support his captain and defend when Luffy makes decisive matters that Zoro himself proud of (usually at arc climaxes), but also make him correct Luffy when he feels that the captain's decision is too ridiculous (usually at arc beginnings or middle major turning points).
Make Zoro be able to laugh and prank when the situation is not crucial but sternly reminds Luffy about captain's role, only when there's a looming danger that is of the level capable of shaking the crew.
Make him honest with Sanji and argues further and more serious than just a physical superficial quarrel. Make him praise Sanji's strategy when it matters.
Make Zoro involved further with strawhats' everyday life outside of fighting. Expose him taking care of his swords, or newly discovering his favorite drink, or training Brook, sparring with Sanji or Chopper and evaluating their weak points or blind spots, gives him moment of talking about swords and how nostalgic the voice of Shusui when it sings at the battle, etc.
He means that you are Ndule's alt
[automerge]1581068759[/automerge]
Everyone who vote for no are Sanji-fans
I should make same thread and poll with Sanji, to see how much people think he's not well-written
[automerge]1581068759[/automerge]
Everyone who vote for no are Sanji-fans
I should make same thread and poll with Sanji, to see how much people think he's not well-written
Also chill on salty hate. Mods are getting stricter on no bait threads and insults with each other other. Not gonna help your case on acting out of spite cause you don't like the truth.
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where did i mention for Zoro to praise Luffy like a chosen one? I want Zoro to praise Luffy where it counts, where Luffy beats the impossible through effort and creativity, and Zoro acknowledge that Luffy had struggled harder than anyone including himself, with the victory as the result.
That or forOda just make a situation where the difference in strength is clear. the way Oda treats Zoro right now is like he's don't wanna Zoro to lose so he created ambiguous and mediocre opponent and fight in order to keep the unbeatable image for Zoro, even when its unrealistic for NW to be unchallenging for Zoro if even the captain keep getting pummeled and humiliated strength-wise left and right.
Admitting Sanji as his one true rival by verbal acknowledgement imo is not as satisfying as seeing Zoro acknowledge Sanji's strong points by action or agreement to those strong points (such as strategy or whatever), since Zoro should keep his calmness for the everyday life. Being a cool guy who is just there for cool battle quotes and powerful sword names and slicing mountains didn't apply to me as decent characterization. Not that Luffy's character nowadays is much better though, but those are among my points for Zoro's character improvement.
That or forOda just make a situation where the difference in strength is clear. the way Oda treats Zoro right now is like he's don't wanna Zoro to lose so he created ambiguous and mediocre opponent and fight in order to keep the unbeatable image for Zoro, even when its unrealistic for NW to be unchallenging for Zoro if even the captain keep getting pummeled and humiliated strength-wise left and right.
Admitting Sanji as his one true rival by verbal acknowledgement imo is not as satisfying as seeing Zoro acknowledge Sanji's strong points by action or agreement to those strong points (such as strategy or whatever), since Zoro should keep his calmness for the everyday life. Being a cool guy who is just there for cool battle quotes and powerful sword names and slicing mountains didn't apply to me as decent characterization. Not that Luffy's character nowadays is much better though, but those are among my points for Zoro's character improvement.
You want Zoro act like Nami? Nami is the straight man character who is designed to get exhausted of Luffy's antics because she written with the cliché of being the buzzkill woman who just can't understand Manly things... Nami is the one who is supposed to get tired of Luffy's antics, not Zoro. .. Zoro is written to be a battle monger who is learning discipline. He is like Luffy as a guy who wants fights and challenges but he's different in that he wants discipline as well hence why he often agrees with Luffy in stuff like him wanting to fight fujitora for the sake of just testing out their strength and yet his discipline doesn't allow him to goof off like Luffy getting beaten by caeser because he wasn't taking shit seriously
Zoro is not designed to get tired of Luffy’s antics since he's the only other person on the crew who is a battle monger like Luffy so he's supposed to understand Luffy in that sense. He chastises Luffy only when Luffy is reckless but he also respects Luffy's position as captain way too much to start complaining like Nami
It seems you just want Zoro to be other characters without considering who he already is
Zoro is not designed to get tired of Luffy’s antics since he's the only other person on the crew who is a battle monger like Luffy so he's supposed to understand Luffy in that sense. He chastises Luffy only when Luffy is reckless but he also respects Luffy's position as captain way too much to start complaining like Nami
It seems you just want Zoro to be other characters without considering who he already is
Yeah, Zoro is not gonna do that with Sanji hahahahaha
But he is someone who already showed that Luffy is the chosen one. His moment with Kuma and sacrificing himself for Luffy is only a testament to what I'm saying.
And his words to Kuma "Taking the head of the future strongest swordsman isn't bad either"
Which the tone of it MEANS that it's a weaker challenge than being PK. And Even Mihawk already said that being PK is harder to achieve than being PK.
And I'm not saying Mihawk is underwhelming in strength. Not at all. It's just think of it this way. Any top tier fight can go both ways.
With that being said, Luffy has to fight for One Piece against 4 (Yonko) or MORE candidates of Top Tiers and Navy Admiral Top Tiers who are trying to stop him.
While Zoro basically has the goal of defeating ONLY ONE Top Tier. Which is basically less hard than Luffy's.
So, Zoro inside his character, he does believe in Luffy wholeheartedly. Zoro has no doubt about Luffy's reign over the crew and hwo he's the promised one.
However, Zoro inside his character, it's within his character to actually continue trash talk Sanji. And I never want that to change. I also, know for a fact that Zoro also respect Sanji's strength. And that was shown TWICE (Post-timeskip).
- First, when they first met in Saboady, and they were clashing, and even Zoro said in comedic way that Sanji got so strong on the account of neglecting his role as a chef and learning more about cooking. (Which is for Sanji considered as an insult cause his priority is to be a chef, not to be so powerful and powerscaling occupies his mind like us fanboys hahaha).
- Second time, is when the crew thought Nami and others were killed in Zou island. And Zoro immediately replied "Do not get nervous, Curlybrows is with them, he will not allow them to get them killed"
So, Zoro as a character, he DOES RESPECT SANJI and his strength. But he simply is too prideful to show it.. and he's always gave Sanji's credit (inside his heart) without showing it. And the same is for Sanji towards him. This is part of the funny dynamic those two have.
It was like this pre-timeskip. and it stayed like this post-timeskip, and it will never change. Those two will always stay having deep respect to one another, but they both will hide it, and they both will actually continue to trash talk each other, and not get along on the silliest of things.
But he is someone who already showed that Luffy is the chosen one. His moment with Kuma and sacrificing himself for Luffy is only a testament to what I'm saying.
And his words to Kuma "Taking the head of the future strongest swordsman isn't bad either"
Which the tone of it MEANS that it's a weaker challenge than being PK. And Even Mihawk already said that being PK is harder to achieve than being PK.
And I'm not saying Mihawk is underwhelming in strength. Not at all. It's just think of it this way. Any top tier fight can go both ways.
With that being said, Luffy has to fight for One Piece against 4 (Yonko) or MORE candidates of Top Tiers and Navy Admiral Top Tiers who are trying to stop him.
While Zoro basically has the goal of defeating ONLY ONE Top Tier. Which is basically less hard than Luffy's.
So, Zoro inside his character, he does believe in Luffy wholeheartedly. Zoro has no doubt about Luffy's reign over the crew and hwo he's the promised one.
However, Zoro inside his character, it's within his character to actually continue trash talk Sanji. And I never want that to change. I also, know for a fact that Zoro also respect Sanji's strength. And that was shown TWICE (Post-timeskip).
- First, when they first met in Saboady, and they were clashing, and even Zoro said in comedic way that Sanji got so strong on the account of neglecting his role as a chef and learning more about cooking. (Which is for Sanji considered as an insult cause his priority is to be a chef, not to be so powerful and powerscaling occupies his mind like us fanboys hahaha).
- Second time, is when the crew thought Nami and others were killed in Zou island. And Zoro immediately replied "Do not get nervous, Curlybrows is with them, he will not allow them to get them killed"
So, Zoro as a character, he DOES RESPECT SANJI and his strength. But he simply is too prideful to show it.. and he's always gave Sanji's credit (inside his heart) without showing it. And the same is for Sanji towards him. This is part of the funny dynamic those two have.
It was like this pre-timeskip. and it stayed like this post-timeskip, and it will never change. Those two will always stay having deep respect to one another, but they both will hide it, and they both will actually continue to trash talk each other, and not get along on the silliest of things.
Zoro is a " stereotypes"
a loyal bas ass guy who can be funny some times and get lost (while having CoO ? somehow)
I've see 100s of this people in 100s of story ....
sure they are likable but there are merely stereotypes and nothing more ...
one piece don't have many "characters" ... as of now only Garp and Teach and Shanks (depend on his story arc) are "characters"
how to make him a character?
give him a better story arc where he can have a character development
Zoro from chapter one and Zoro from chapter 970 are same person
and also let him be useful for story
as of now Zoro can die in next chapter and WORLD of one piece gonna be the same
even Luffy story arc most likely can meet it's end without him
a loyal bas ass guy who can be funny some times and get lost (while having CoO ? somehow)
I've see 100s of this people in 100s of story ....
sure they are likable but there are merely stereotypes and nothing more ...
one piece don't have many "characters" ... as of now only Garp and Teach and Shanks (depend on his story arc) are "characters"
how to make him a character?
give him a better story arc where he can have a character development
Zoro from chapter one and Zoro from chapter 970 are same person
and also let him be useful for story
as of now Zoro can die in next chapter and WORLD of one piece gonna be the same
even Luffy story arc most likely can meet it's end without him
Nami is tired by gags. Not that. You know when a battle commander is strict everyday and even stricter at times of war? A commander's rare moments of exhaustion, where only his most trusted friend can see or feel from his expression or words after or in the middle of great wars against Admirals or Yonkous, that's what imo will develop Zoro's character more.