General & Others How would you make Zoro a better character?

[Red Admiral]

At the beginning of the manga, Zoro was selfish, lonely and his only drive was his dream. He entered the crew because Luffy blackmailed him but he stated to Luffy that if he ever stop him to reach his goal, he will cut him down. At this point, Zoro laughs, troll and was more lighthearted but his dream was the center of his universe.

Then he loses badly to Mihawk. The realization of how weak he was, made him be more serious even more adamant to train at any given time. Because he acknowledged his weakness. He understood that he has to give more. To be more powerful. To be a different animal but the same beast. Why? Because his dream was everything to him. It was the center of his universe. That’s way, in tears, he promised his friend to never lose again. Because defeat means death in the swordsman world (I.e what he said to Mihawk) and dying means not realizing his dream.

At Thriller bark and then in front of Mihawk, Zoro put his life and his pride aside. First for Luffy’s sake and then for the crew sake. Because at this point, he was not putting his dream above everything anymore. Remember that for Zoro dying is not accomplishing his dream but without a second thought he offered his life to Kuma and face an ordeal of blood putting his life on the line.
And he done that because he first priority now is to be able to protect his nakamas.
He continued to seek strength but not only to achieve his dream but also for his friends.

He was trained by Mihawk and lived with him for two years. Which allows some of Mihawk’s traits to affect him. He is also more grim as if the place where he trained also affects him. He is striving to greatness, still loyal to Luffy and still want to protect his crewmates bit now he is more reflective. Furthermore, he is has shown more leadership after the timeskip.

Saying that Zoro had no character development is factually false. The fact that you did not seen it is pretty sad.

- he wasn't really selfish as we saw him being really kind and willing to take blame on himself for crimes he didn't commit

- he wasn't really lonely and his old friends form school was still on good terms with him , he just wanted to be on his own and yet he joined Luffy CAUSE OF HIS OWN PERSONALITY MADE HIM and joining Luffy didn't really stood in way of his dream

- training more is not about personality .... and honestly as far as we know he was train as much as he could ever since he was a child anyway

- and in Thriller bark in fact he didn't put Luffy's Dream above himself but he knew if he can't save Luffy he is not good enough to reach his own dream any way ...

- and I really don't get it why 2 years of training should effect his personality cause it didn't


Zoro is still the same person as he was


but even let's assume all the points you are making are true ... good?

still all of the points are you mentioning are really minor if be true
in a 970 chapter long manga ... this amount of minor changes are REALLY low


and tbh I don't even understand what is you that try to defend ... as if Zoro is perfect and no one could do him better


Zoro is a type not a characters
Zoro story arc is only about getting more powerful and stay loyal to his nakama with every low development if any
Zoro usage for the story is under the shadow of Luffy and straw hats


Zoro is far from being a real iconic "character" let alone perfect one ... and if he (or any person on one piece) want to be better character they need to be improved in all 3 bases

 

[Rivaille]

- he wasn't really selfish as we saw him being really kind and willing to take blame on himself for crimes he didn't commit

- he wasn't really lonely and his old friends form school was still on good terms with him , he just wanted to be on his own and yet he joined Luffy CAUSE OF HIS OWN PERSONALITY MADE HIM and joining Luffy didn't really stood in way of his dream

- training more is not about personality .... and honestly as far as we know he was train as much as he could ever since he was a child anyway

- and in Thriller bark in fact he didn't put Luffy's Dream above himself but he knew if he can't save Luffy he is not good enough to reach his own dream any way ...

- and I really don't get it why 2 years of training should effect his personality cause it didn't


Zoro is still the same person as he was


but even let's assume all the points you are making are true ... good?

still all of the points are you mentioning are really minor if be true
in a 970 chapter long manga ... this amount of minor changes are REALLY low


and tbh I don't even understand what is you that try to defend ... as if Zoro is perfect and no one could do him better


Zoro is a type not a characters
Zoro story arc is only about getting more powerful and stay loyal to his nakama with every low development if any
Zoro usage for the story is under the shadow of Luffy and straw hats


Zoro is far from being a real iconic "character" let alone perfect one ... and if he (or any person on one piece) want to be better character they need to be improved in all 3 bases

What I’m trying to defend is that Zoro from chapter 3 and Zoro from chapter 970 is not the same guy. But you seems to be oblivious to it so so be it.

 

[Red Admiral]

Rivaille just mentioned all the times that Zoro wasn't on his worth behavior

Zoro biggest claim for change was the moment he was willing to die for Luffy

and even on that moment ... there are character development

1st ... Zoro did that not cause he respected Luffy dream more but cause he know if he fail now he can never be WSS ... this is on the manga go and read it

2nd ... still there are not haracter development in there ... Zoro is a loyal man .... at best case his loyalty changed from himself to others
but still this is the same behavior, nothing changed but merely shifted


The definition of character development refers to the process of creating a believable character in fiction by giving the character depth and personality.


so we didn't get any new depth to Zoro or saw a diffrent shape of personality as he had

and even while I'm willy to say OK ... we got a better depth ... that moment was JUST A MOMENT ... after words Zoro still was who he is and nothing about him changed


this is character development on it's lowest level ...
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What I’m trying to defend is that Zoro from chapter 3 and Zoro from chapter 970 is not the same guy. But you seems to be oblivious to it so so be it.

OK ... let me ask you this

in terms of character development ... how much Zoro changed after 970 chapters and 20 arcs? ...

when I'm saying he is the same person it means his personality didn't change ... I'm willing to admit we got more depth to it ... but he is still the same overall person ....


you are fghting over mini amount while I'm saying Oda could give him MUCH MORE

how's that wrong ....


I'm saying no one but Garp and Teach are even a real character as of now ... it's not like I'm being biased

 

[Homelander]

Luffy himself didn't got a good character development

sure he shout " I NEVER RUN"

but he run away from both Fujitora and Big Mom in reality

Well he was living between death and life . Luffy is not completely dumb he knows big mom is on another level.

 

[MD Zolo]

Oh sure! Let's close the Luffy Roast thread and open up Zoro Roast thread.

Real mature from everybody involved in both threads!! Trying to prove how 'bad' the two most important characters of OP are!!

 

[Red Admiral]

Well he was living between death and life . Luffy is not completely dumb he knows big mom is on another level.

I know ... I'm just saying the war of the best and death of his brother in his arms

still didn't changed him much ...

" I NEVER RUN" was spouse to be the outcome of his character development after the war ... but even that fail ...


One piece while is the BEST story ever in terms of creating massive TYPES of likable people
it's not a story with good character development

it's not a harsh or untrue statement
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Oh sure! Let's close the Luffy Roast thread and open up Zoro Roast thread.

Real mature from everybody involved in both threads!! Trying to prove how 'bad' the two most important characters of OP are!!

honestly .... while I don't even care for Zoro as a character (seen much better in other stories)
Luffy is not even likable for me as a character (not talking about the person)

i understand why Oda failed ...

but facing the reality and accepting that is not a bad thing ...


one of the reason people in fandom care so much about power level
and we don't talk about personality and upcoming developments is cause Oda fail in them so bad
pointing that out might be helpful and Oda might do better in this term
not saying anything? .... not much

 

[Shura]

L

I know ... I'm just saying the war of the best and death of his brother in his arms

still didn't changed him much ...

" I NEVER RUN" was spouse to be the outcome of his character development after the war ... but even that fail ...


One piece while is the BEST story ever in terms of creating massive TYPES of likable people
it's not a story with good character development

it's not a harsh or untrue statement
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honestly .... while I don't even care for Zoro as a character (seen much better in other stories)
Luffy is not even likable for him

i understand why Oda failed ...

but facing the reality and accepting that is not a bad thing ...

I mean these things shouldn't bother you much at this point.....

Even WB and Roger ran away from marines during their peak time....

Luffy is not dumb enough to fight BigMom head on when he knows he is not at her level.....the fight with Fujitora got interrupted

 

[Red Admiral]

L

I mean these things shouldn't bother you much at this point.....

Even WB and Roger ran away from marines during their peak time....

Luffy is not dumb enough to fight BigMom head on when he knows he is not at her level.....the fight with Fujitora got interrupted

running away is logical

promising us that Luffy personality got a development and than say : "nah ... we need him alive so fuck that" is a problem

it won't BOTHER ME

but this is an actual mistake in Oda book and pointing that out is not bad


it's only normal if we see how the journey change a person step by step to the point the person in the end of the story might not even be like the version of himself in the beginning

in that way readers can feel satisfaction even more and that can effect the readers normal life


this are the duties of a story which make a story worth reading .... sure I ignore this now .... but if Oda do it right I would like it even more



One piece should be more about " who can beat who in the fight"

 

[Rivaille]

OK ... let me ask you this

in terms of character development ... how much Zoro changed after 970 chapters and 20 arcs? ...

when I'm saying he is the same person it means his personality didn't change ... I'm willing to admit we got more depth to it ... but he is still the same overall person ....


you are fghting over mini amount while I'm saying Oda could give him MUCH MORE

how's that wrong ....


I'm saying no one but Garp and Teach are even a real character as of now ... it's not like I'm being biased

A lot. He gone from putting his dream first to put his nakamas first. Saying that it is not a development because « he just switched his loyalty », is like saying that Robin knew no character development after EL and that she just switch a confidence to herself from others.

His personality changed : he gone from being jovial and lighthearted to serious and grim. Which is exactly why, in this very thread, you have people asking for him to revert to his trolling and less serious self.

You said Zoro did not change (which I disagree with) not that « he changed but Oda could have done more ».

And I also disagree with this but it is not the point of the thread.

 

[Shura]

promising us that Luffy personality got a development and than say : "nah ... we need him alive so fuck that" is a problem

I mean he got a development alright....like 2 years time skip made him stronger than his former self.....even though he fights reckless he still understands the situations like taking help from others and alliances, going with the plan of poisoning the bigmom etc. ....sure he still makes rookie mistakes once in a while fitting for a 19 year old but yeah....I agree with you...the development went dumb when Oda made him face Kaido ...it was stupid move of Oda to keep him restricted to one place

 

[Red Admiral]

A lot. He gone from putting his dream first to put his nakamas first. Saying that it is not a development because « he just switched his loyalty », is like saying that Robin knew no character development after EL and that she just switch a confidence to herself from others.

His personality changed : he gone from being jovial and lighthearted to serious and grim. Which is exactly why, in this very thread, you have people asking for him to revert to his trolling and less serious self.

You said Zoro did not change (which I disagree with) not that « he changed but Oda could have done more ».

And I also disagree with this but it is not the point of the thread.

again ... I explained ... doing that still was based on his loyalty and his original sense of loyalty

and Zoro was always a serious and grim person ... he paid for his drink by beating pirates in the start of manga!!

yes ... I did say he didn't changed much ... he just shifted his personality qualities in different ways ... this is not a massive thing after 970 cahpters


and this thread is about ways Zoro could be better characters

where I said

- giving him better development and reasons for that development
- giving him a better story arc as a person not just as some one right hand man
- giving him a story arc not only about being powerful but more useful for the world of one piece

all 3 can make Zoro even better if not far better ...
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I mean he got a development alright....like 2 years time skip made him stronger than his former self.....even though he fights reckless he still understands the situations like taking help from others and alliances, going with the plan of poisoning the bigmom etc. ....sure he still makes rookie mistakes once in a while fitting for a 19 year old but yeah....I agree with you...the development went dumb when Oda made him face Kaido ...it was stupid move of Oda to keep him restricted to one place

power level is not really related to character development
his personalty is really still the same ...

after 970 Luffy getting more adult and be different is not something major to ask .... but truth is ... Oda didn't take the chance

and I fully understand WHY he didn't .... cause there is no truing back point in doing a manga .... but this is a mistake none the less

 

[Shura]

970 Luffy getting more adult and be diffrent is not a something major to ask .

I agree....until wano udon prison...Luffy is literally looking regressed physically.....no growth in body....I think Oda realised this mistake and slowly showing (atleast I felt from act 2) a bit matured version of Luffy...

 

[Haoshoku]

Please keep the thread on topic, if I see any posts deviating from the topic at hand you’ll be banned from the thread without further warning.

 

[Red Admiral]

I agree....until wano udon prison...Luffy is literally looking regressed physically.....no growth in body....I think Oda realised this mistake and slowly showing (atleast I felt from act 2) a bit matured version of Luffy...

I really really hope so ...

cause his future seem promising ...

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Rivalry:
"competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field"

Ever since the Dinosaur Hunt, Zoro and Sanji's developed a rivalry. Their rivalry is on the basis of who is superior/inferior to the other. In which they regularly compete. This then causes an antagonistic relationship with the two of them. In which they inslut each other to hold the superiority above the other. However those remarks lead to fights which both end equally.

So to answer your question. They often do compete, however their rivalry comes from needing superiorty in the same field. And that field is literally their relationship. They wanna prove to be stronger than the other...They wanna prove that they are betrer than the other. And thats where their are rivalry comes from.

What does "Superiority in their relationship" mean? You do realise you need to actually define the things you say when you answer.

That statement is the most vague and somewhat sexual thing I've ever seen

If you mean "superiority in strength" then say that. Say something as concrete and measurable as strength since that's a thing that can be competed over. The fuck does "Superiority in relationship" mean. Like one guy "out relationships" another

Even their strength competitions are a gag since they never affect the plot. At no point does their relative strength or competition in strength lead to anything, they don't even et stronger. THAT'S THE EASIEST THING. The easiest thing when competing in strength is just one character getting stronger because of the competition, EVEN THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED. its just a gag

 

[Red Admiral]

Please keep the thread on topic, if I see any posts deviating from the topic at hand you’ll be banned from the thread without further warning.

the thread is about "
How would you make Zoro a better character?

so talking about where he did wrong and how he can do better is like the meaning of staying of topic

 

[Aknolagon]

Maybe more interaction with the crew but it's not zoro's fault but oda actually! It's been a long time we didn't see the crew together ...
Also Zoro was always serious, even his Tarzan scream is not funny for him, he was serious lol!
But anyway zoro is calm, wise, hardworker and never showed his emotions since the beginning so you can't ask him to show emotion now or change his attitude.
Kaido, shanks, mihawk, Rayleigh, Wb, katakuri, king, ben Beckman, Aka inu have two common things : they are monsters but also calm/serious so if you accept them as good character, so you need to accept zoro is in this category too.

SH is a comedy crew actually, everyone are making jokes and most of the times they are never serious even robin now.
But we have at least one who bring what SH doesn't have : strong, calm, badass character.
That's Zoro, like him or not.

And could someone tell me when zoro disappointed them by his attitude, loyalty or even fights ? He has at least some uniques and many fights while it's a Luffy's show since the TS!

Zoro is for me the only character that Oda tries to not fuck with! So he is doing a good job by handling zoro until now.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

I’m glad you specified “by OP standards” in the poll...there’s no way Zoro is one of the greatest characters in all of fiction, but for this series, I think he’s pretty close.

• He has a clear set of morals, ideals, and goals, all of which he adheres to as strongly as possible
• In a story that focuses so much on pride, he has shown more of it AND a higher willingness to put it aside for his friends than most people outside of the crew
• Despite his natural inclination towards being a serious curmudgeon, he’s still able to relax and genuinely loves his crew mates, even that damn chef
• There’s no question (for most of us) that he’s gonna be one of the most powerful people in the story by the time it ends

If I had to pick some actual changes to his character, I think the “getting lost all the time” shtick is wearing perilously thin even when it leads him to people like Hiyori...the trope is dumb, and it just serves to continue the Straw Hats’ endless separation. Moreover, I’d like a little more of his personality to come through after the time skip - I know every main character has been largely shunted from the spotlight since then, but I feel like even in Wano, we’ve just seen him wandering around and slicing people. Again, I think the dynamic between him and Hiyori is fresh enough that we could see him grow quite a bit from getting involved with her.

Zoro is a solid character overall, which I would say about all of Luffy’s nakama; the problem isn’t so much him as a person as it is that his creator seemingly doesn’t know what he’s doing anymore. Oda’s tale became so popular because guys like the marimo used to get spectacular battles as well as a lot to do with the overarching story...now, it’s Luffy, the villains of any given arc, the new secondary characters we don’t really need, and that’s about it. I don’t want Zoro’s character to change much, I just wanna go back to the days when we got to see him do more.

 

[Haoshoku]

the thread is about "
How would you make Zoro a better character?

so talking about where he did wrong and how he can do better is like the meaning of staying of topic

I’m fully aware, the posts containing off topic material have already been done away with.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Their eventual goal is superiority above the other. Whether it be Bounty/Strength/ Or winning something

All this is encompassed in a gag because Zoro's end of arc or end of series Bounty/Strength/achievements have never and will never be affected by Sanji so this "rivalry" will never actually affect Zoro's actual story progression