General & Others How would you make Zoro a better character?

[Garp the Fist]

I got to Zoro vs BW on Whiskey Peak on my reread yesterday.

Zoro is an absolutely hilarious troll in it, but he still shows off his more typical "badass" side. And he has great interactions with Luffy and Nami in it. It's all round peak Zoro.

I'd like to see more of that Zoro. But i have to question- does it actually make sense for us to see that, or would that actually be a regression of Zoro's character?

Sure, early Zoro is more carefree and lighthearted. But that came with a caveat. Early Zoro was also stronger than anyone in East Blue apart from Luffy and Smoker (and Buggy, but that's a matchup situation). That's a big theme for Zoro that starts with the Mihawk fight- the frog in the well who doesn't know how big the world is. Zoro takes that very much on board. He'll goof off against fodder, but throughout the series we then get Zoro as the one who, more than anyone on the crew, knows the challenge of what the Strawhats are attempting to do. That's the point of
-his stance on Ussop and the Merry
-his actions on Thriller Bark
-begging Mihawk
-why he gets so angry with himself and Luffy on PH
-why he questions whether it's the right thing to go after Sanji

With all this in mind, for Wano at least, we can't really have a less serious Zoro. The stakes have never been higher for the Strawhats, and the arc is also now unique in that Zoro has a personal stake. It doesn't really make sense for him not to be utterly serious in this situation, given what the Strawhats are up against in Kaido, and his own vendetta against Orochi.

And then the problem for Oda and Zoro after Wano is... it's the end of the series. The escalation of "greatest threat the Strawhats face" just keeps happening. Hopefully there's an adventure arc in Elbaf or whatever, where the Strawhats hunt the last Road Poneglyph, the threat isn't that high and we can see Zoro relax a bit.

One place that Oda can improve for definite though- more Strawhat interactions. For all of them, really. Okay, it makes sense that there's a focus on Zoro and the people of Wano for this arc, but he can still talk to other Strawhats than Luffy and Sanji.

 

[Chrono]

What does "Superiority in their relationship" mean? You do realise you need to actually define the things you say when you answer.

That statement is the most vague and somewhat sexual thing I've ever seen

If you mean "superiority in strength" then say that. Say something as concrete and measurable as strength since that's a thing that can be competed over. The fuck does "Superiority in relationship" mean. Like one guy "out relationships" another

Even their strength competitions are a gag since they never affect the plot. At no point does their relative strength or competition in strength lead to anything, they don't even et stronger. THAT'S THE EASIEST THING. The easiest thing when competing in strength is just one character getting stronger because of the competition, EVEN THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED. its just a gag

Whos more superior in everything bascially. And that is what makes them rivals. By always tryingt outshine and be better than the other.

Does it matter if it is a gag. Sanji's perversion is a gag....does that make him any less of a pervert. It is their relstionship and they may not see each other as rivals....however they have a huge rivalry going on.

 

[Lion of Olympus]

Give him an actual personallity besides getting lost and being "badass"

Also, Oda needs to realize that in not making Zoro struggle since the timeskip, instead of making Zoro look more cool, it has damaged his character

 

[Chrono]

All this is encompassed in a gag because Zoro's end of arc or end of series Bounty/Strength/achievements have never and will never be affected by Sanji so this "rivalry" will never actually affect Zoro's actual story progression

Again this doesnt matter. They still have a rivalry. Point blank period. Like why is so hard to admit. When we think of Sanji's infatuation with Nami....do we straight think of gag. Or just how Sanji is and how he views Nami in general. So I dont understand why you have to keep bringing gag up for ZoSan

 

[stealthblack]

Give him Something else besides fetish for swords. Idk, a hobby or something.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Whos more superior in everything bascially. And that is what makes them rivals. By always tryingt outshine and be better than the other.

Does it matter if it is a gag. Sanji's perversion is a gag....does that make him any less of a pervert. It is their relstionship and they may not see each other as rivals....however they have a huge rivalry going on.

So you admit it's a gag and yet you always bring it up in serious discussions?

If we are discussing how much Nami respects Luffy as a serious discussion, you don't bring up the gags of her constantly hitting him do you? Since that's a sign of disrespect if you take it out of the gag context. This is what separates Nami slapping Sanji in WCI for beating up Luffy and Nami beating up Sanji every other time. The context of things happening in gags is definitively different from things happening outside of gags.

Sanji's pervertedness is his gag and whats is written into his actual character is his ridiculous levels of chivalry. They are separate things. Chivalry is not the same as perversion, it's just that Sanji is almost always in Perverted gag mode that you can't tell when the gag begins and ends and since his chivalry is so ridiculous it turns into sexism and that also spills into perversion. Basically he's a mess of a character and that's why majority of people prefer Zoro.

Anyway, point is that gags are characterisations but they only matter in comedic situations , not dramatic situations... Zoro's getting lost gag is used for comedy, if it was to be used for drama we would get into fan theories about the cursed sword possessing him and messing with his direction or some dumb shit like that

That rivalry is like that, it only exists in gags and will never carry dramatic weight
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Again this doesnt matter

It does not matter because if Gags started replacing drama, one piece would be called a gag manga.

Do you think one piece is a gag manga?

 

[nik87]

Whos more superior in everything bascially. And that is what makes them rivals. By always tryingt outshine and be better than the other.

It is a gag lol, that's not a rivalry. It all comes from them being fundamentally different characters who cant stand each other.
They compete regularly? In what?
Did he ever say to Zoro, lets see if my kicks are better than your swords in a serious fight? The way Luffy and Zoro had it in WP.
When it comes to contest of strength, only Luffy and Zoro are the participants.

 

[Beerbottle]

My own thoughts:

Apart from Luffy, I can't remember Zoro interacting much with anyone after the time skip. He seems to always get shoved off to the side plots so other characters can grab the attention. We don't get to see Zoro having fun with the crew, drinking around with Nami or buddying up with Chopper (Zoro is his idol). I'd make it so that Zoro shows more open interest (not just concern) for his crew and engages them / goes about showing them what he's learned over the time skip, not just swordsmanship but things he's picked up from Mihawk and Perona. Likewise, I would've had more conversations between Momo and Zoro, with Zoro on-screen showing him a bit of what he's learned / hint at his obvious Wano origins.

I'm laughing a little, cause after reading your post, I don't think I have anything more to add xD
I pretty much agree with all of it

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I'm laughing a little, cause after reading your post, I don't think I have anything more to add xD
I pretty much agree with all of it

Because Oda decided things like Robin jot mentioning that Sabo was alive to Luffy for weeks until Dressrosa?

Like When do any of the straw hats actually talk to each other anymore about anything? You guys are just picking out Zoro for reasons apparently

 

[trav]

by deleting Luffy and making him MC, duh...
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instead of Luffys boring talk no jiitsu and pirate king screaming we would have Zoro drop one trite 1 liner after another.

 

[Kishido]

He is awesome as he is

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Because Oda decided things like Robin jot mentioning that Sabo was alive to Luffy for weeks until Dressrosa?

Like When do any of the straw hats actually talk to each other anymore about anything? You guys are just picking out Zoro for reasons apparently

Off topic, but that’s bothered me for the longest...Robin spent two full years with the Revolutionaries after Sabo had regained his memories, so why in the FUCK did neither of them acknowledge his existence/connection to Luffy until he actually showed up??

 

[nik87]

Off topic, but that’s bothered me for the longest...Robin spent two full years with the Revolutionaries after Sabo had regained his memories, so why in the FUCK did neither of them acknowledge his existence/connection to Luffy until he actually showed up??

Plot convenience. We wouldnt have that SABO?! moment in Coliseum had he known that he is alive...

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Plot convenience. We wouldnt have that SABO?! moment in Coliseum had he known that he is alive...

That’s literally the only explanation that makes sense narratively, but it’s also total bullshit in the context of the story. Robin reunites with her captain after spending two full years with the brother he thought was dead, and instead of filling him so he might move on from the brother he WATCHED die in front of him, she played dumb until Sabo literally swooped in to help Luffy out...that’s an incredibly fucked up thing to do to the man who saved your life multiple times.

 

[nik87]

That’s literally the only explanation that makes sense narratively, but it’s also total bullshit in the context of the story. Robin reunites with her captain after spending two full years with the brother he thought was dead, and instead of filling him so he might move on from the brother he WATCHED die in front of him, she played dumb until Sabo literally swooped in to help Luffy out...that’s an incredibly fucked up thing to do to the man who saved your life multiple times.

I agree but Oda simply goes along with such things as it benefits the moments he wants to hype. Plot induced stupidity...

 

[Jew D. Boy]

I agree but Oda simply goes along with such things as it benefits the moments he wants to hype. Plot induced stupidity...

PIS is a POS, that’s all I have to say. All right, back to Zoro talk, everyone.

 

[Dark Hound]

Make him the mc and the manga a seinen.

:cheers:
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Make him snarkier and funnier. Better one liners, more killer instincts, more savage, more life enjoying and not just unemotional dude that is just there to swing a sword.

More interactions with sh and the other people.

Otherwise he's good

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Off topic, but that’s bothered me for the longest...Robin spent two full years with the Revolutionaries after Sabo had regained his memories, so why in the FUCK did neither of them acknowledge his existence/connection to Luffy until he actually showed up??

Because Oda chose not to have the strawjats talk about the time skips... and yet the guy making this thread is saying Zoro SPECIFICALLY is lacking in character because he doesn't talk about the time skip...
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not just unemotional dude that is just there to swing a sword.

He's unemotional? Really? You've not seen Zoro show any emotion post time skip? Or do you mean you've not seen Zoro show the emotions YOU WANT him to show for some reason

 

[Beerbottle]

Because Oda decided things like Robin jot mentioning that Sabo was alive to Luffy for weeks until Dressrosa?

Like When do any of the straw hats actually talk to each other anymore about anything? You guys are just picking out Zoro for reasons apparently

Uhuh... I'll tell you right now that I've made similar complaints about several of the characters, not just Zoro. Alas, this is a Zoro thread so you bet your ass I'm going to talk about him.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Uhuh... I'll tell you right now that I've made similar complaints about several of the characters, not just Zoro. Alas, this is a Zoro thread so you bet your ass I'm going to talk about him.

This thread is titled "Zoro as a character (BY OP STANDARDS)" right? Isn't that in the title?

So when Oda decides to write his main cast as people who literally never ask anything about each other's personal lives unless the plot demands it, ISN'T THAT A STANDARD OF ONE PIECE CHARACTERS?

Geez what's lame is that the person who made the thread is the one who immediately lost the point of the thread he made.