Questions & Mysteries Is advanced CoC really only no touching?
- Thread starter BornInAbyss
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Good point one is defensive the other offensive.. They say the best defense is offense.. But how does that apply when you mix an offensive capability with a defensive capability?.. At this point in the story, i'd say you can not use CoA Emission when you're attacking or punching..
:zorothink:
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Like i said, if there was ID CoA in the mix it would have been bigger, not as large as Garp or Luffy's Bajrang gun but still..
AdCoC + Internal Destruction is as blowing a balloon.. Where as AdCoC is pushing on a small pillow or cushion.. Do you see the difference?..
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No no, we literally see in Hyogoro’s explanation that actually Barriers are used for attacking as well… Hyogoro literally says so… even in the little diagram that’s show we see the barrier hitting the block and cracking it
so if someone does a barrier… meaning they make extended area of effect that can damage things… And then they add CoC to it
wouldn’t this look like your supposed “No touching”?
lets take it further… Someone make a barrier, then uses Internal destruction along the barrier and then uses CoC on it… What does that look like?
you for some reason believe there is a difference between Advanced CoC and CoA with CoC in it… when there doesn’t seem to be
mainly because almost even AdvCoC user can also use AdvCoA and they intentionally mix them together at random arbitrary times
the fact that you are saying Kaido used AdvCoC on just base Luffy and then proceeded to fight and kill Luffy with “CoA with CoC techniques” yet you claim AdvCoC is stronger than the latter… but Kaido never used it outside of his one clash with base Luffy
it fucking doesn’t make any sense… There is no difference between AdvCoC and “CoA with CoC”. There is especially no difference in their power levels since multiple characters just arbitrarily do whatever and one attack looks stronger than another attack arbitrarily unless Oda specifies one is stronger than the other
so if someone does a barrier… meaning they make extended area of effect that can damage things… And then they add CoC to it
wouldn’t this look like your supposed “No touching”?
lets take it further… Someone make a barrier, then uses Internal destruction along the barrier and then uses CoC on it… What does that look like?
you for some reason believe there is a difference between Advanced CoC and CoA with CoC in it… when there doesn’t seem to be
mainly because almost even AdvCoC user can also use AdvCoA and they intentionally mix them together at random arbitrary times
the fact that you are saying Kaido used AdvCoC on just base Luffy and then proceeded to fight and kill Luffy with “CoA with CoC techniques” yet you claim AdvCoC is stronger than the latter… but Kaido never used it outside of his one clash with base Luffy
it fucking doesn’t make any sense… There is no difference between AdvCoC and “CoA with CoC”. There is especially no difference in their power levels since multiple characters just arbitrarily do whatever and one attack looks stronger than another attack arbitrarily unless Oda specifies one is stronger than the other
You might be onto something here with the CoA based CoC application. However "advCoC" as the community calls it, is the act of imbuing CoC into one's attacks.
And Kaidou is factually doing this when he makes contact with Luffy numerous times. Therefore, whatever Kaidou referenced in chapter 1010, can be done with contact. It is the same thing Zoro, Yamato, were doing. This bit is not up for debate.
Now if you're saying there is a version 2 of it (just like there are different versions to CoA and CoO) this is possible, and it's possible you are arguing semantics.
No you made that up. Luffy knew his ID was too shallow so he amp his ID with CoC[1>2>3>4] The actual context can't be any more clear
ACoC is the ability to apply your CoC into your attacks. That's how we use that terminology. Your understanding is way out of bounce to common usage of the word. You literally made up your own understanding that only you can perceive it.
ACoC is the ability to apply your CoC into your attacks. That's how we use that terminology. Your understanding is way out of bounce to common usage of the word. You literally made up your own understanding that only you can perceive it.
Infusing conquerors with your armament is an advanced application of it but calling all of it all acoc just makes it confusing in arguments
Like yamato and luffy both can infuse their attacks with it but luffy is able to do stuff yamato can't because his armament is more advanced armament. Yamato not having barrier or penetration armament
Zoro just like with his armament infuses it with his slashes. With conquerors he can infuse both
They can all infuse their attacks with it but its obviously not all all the same level
Like yamato and luffy both can infuse their attacks with it but luffy is able to do stuff yamato can't because his armament is more advanced armament. Yamato not having barrier or penetration armament
Zoro just like with his armament infuses it with his slashes. With conquerors he can infuse both
They can all infuse their attacks with it but its obviously not all all the same level
Firstly, I'll say Haki is incredibly inconsistent and a terribly explained power so these are our attempts at interpreting Oda's awful writing. Now that the disclaimer is out of the way: ACoC is not just no-touching. ACoC is an amplifier that can either touch or not touch, it depends on whether the user has barrier haki and wants to apply their CoC to it. ACoC can also act as a steroid to barriers - take a CoA barrier and add CoC, now that barrier grows even larger because you added more Haki to it.
ACoC users can 'not-touch' with both level 2 and level 3 CoA. E.g - Zoro can create barriers if he wants to but that's counter-productive for a swordsman whose goal is to cut you. Shanks' Kamusari's blunt force effect leads me to believe he used a CoA barrier with it.
Furthermore, you can also use level 3 CoA + ACoC and still touch. E.g - Kaido confirmed G5 Luffy is using CoA + ACoC yet Luffy isn't creating any barriers (I don't see why Luffy wouldn't be using ID CoA here). Luffy then decides to create a barrier for Bajrang Gun.
Kaido and Yamato don't have level 3 CoA, that's why Yamato couldn't break her chains. But they could apply ACoC to their barrier haki if they wanted. Through Law, Oda likened Luffy to Rogerbeard so the confirmed users of level 3 CoA thus far are Roger, Luffy, Whitebeard, Big Mom and Rayleigh. Garp and Shanks are likely users too.
What Garp did with Galaxy Fist is make a huge CoC-imbued barrier. So it could be but may not necessarily be level 3 CoA. It could be level 2 CoA with a shit ton of CoC, who knows. What Zoro did vs King is apply CoC to his already CoA coated swords - this injection created an instantaneous barrier that pushed King back. Zoro is the perfect example of characters who can create barriers but choose not to.
Kaido never made a significant barrier without clashing with Luffy which leads me to believe he doesn't bother 99% of the time. Hell, he might've just been clashing with Luffy's barrier, making it look like there were two barriers for some of them. So without the visual indication nor indication from other characters, I can't claim Kaido is an ID CoA user. He had enough chances to prove as much.
Point is, this whole touching/no-touching thing is largely insignificant and not something to look so hard into. If a character is using level 3 CoA and we need to know, Oda will make it clear somehow. All that's important is the sum total of your AP. A barrier-less ACoC attack can be levels above an ID CoA barrier + ACoC attack, it just depends on the sum total of Haki + strength you put into the attack. See Luffy's base ACoC punches vs Paradise Totsuka.
ACoC users can 'not-touch' with both level 2 and level 3 CoA. E.g - Zoro can create barriers if he wants to but that's counter-productive for a swordsman whose goal is to cut you. Shanks' Kamusari's blunt force effect leads me to believe he used a CoA barrier with it.
Furthermore, you can also use level 3 CoA + ACoC and still touch. E.g - Kaido confirmed G5 Luffy is using CoA + ACoC yet Luffy isn't creating any barriers (I don't see why Luffy wouldn't be using ID CoA here). Luffy then decides to create a barrier for Bajrang Gun.
Kaido and Yamato don't have level 3 CoA, that's why Yamato couldn't break her chains. But they could apply ACoC to their barrier haki if they wanted. Through Law, Oda likened Luffy to Rogerbeard so the confirmed users of level 3 CoA thus far are Roger, Luffy, Whitebeard, Big Mom and Rayleigh. Garp and Shanks are likely users too.
What Garp did with Galaxy Fist is make a huge CoC-imbued barrier. So it could be but may not necessarily be level 3 CoA. It could be level 2 CoA with a shit ton of CoC, who knows. What Zoro did vs King is apply CoC to his already CoA coated swords - this injection created an instantaneous barrier that pushed King back. Zoro is the perfect example of characters who can create barriers but choose not to.
Kaido never made a significant barrier without clashing with Luffy which leads me to believe he doesn't bother 99% of the time. Hell, he might've just been clashing with Luffy's barrier, making it look like there were two barriers for some of them. So without the visual indication nor indication from other characters, I can't claim Kaido is an ID CoA user. He had enough chances to prove as much.
Point is, this whole touching/no-touching thing is largely insignificant and not something to look so hard into. If a character is using level 3 CoA and we need to know, Oda will make it clear somehow. All that's important is the sum total of your AP. A barrier-less ACoC attack can be levels above an ID CoA barrier + ACoC attack, it just depends on the sum total of Haki + strength you put into the attack. See Luffy's base ACoC punches vs Paradise Totsuka.
Attacking as repelling the attack that was thrown at them.. It still a defense mode..
You most likely can not use CoA emission with AdCoC because one is Defensive the other is Offensive ability..
It's as using hardening on your fist while using AdCoC not touching.. It's pointless..
AdCoc + ID CoA Looks like this..
I never said Kaido used CoA based CoC attacks from his club.. But if he did one it's the Vajra Arrow..
If AdCoC is imbuing as Hardening on a Sword then the community is incorrect..
Why would Luffy use Gear 2 + Gear 3 the first time he used Gear 2 against Blueno.. That's just not how he rolls
AdCoC + ID CoA looks like a Blown Balloon, AdCoC looks like a Pushed Cushion.. Big Difference..
AdCoC is not into an attack like lets say Hardening on a Sword..
You most likely can not use CoA emission with AdCoC because one is Defensive the other is Offensive ability..
It's as using hardening on your fist while using AdCoC not touching.. It's pointless..
AdCoc + ID CoA Looks like this..
I never said Kaido used CoA based CoC attacks from his club.. But if he did one it's the Vajra Arrow..
If AdCoC is imbuing as Hardening on a Sword then the community is incorrect..
Why would Luffy use Gear 2 + Gear 3 the first time he used Gear 2 against Blueno.. That's just not how he rolls
AdCoC + ID CoA looks like a Blown Balloon, AdCoC looks like a Pushed Cushion.. Big Difference..
AdCoC is not into an attack like lets say Hardening on a Sword..
Hyougoro taught Luffy barrier haki, so its quite strange for a stronger samurai from Wano aka Oden not to know anything about it
Regarding Law's panel, Luffy just figured out how to coat CoC in that moment, but Oda, for some strange reason, immediately draws a panel where Law gets shockingly impressed by AdCoA?! 😂
Hyougoro taught Luffy barrier haki, so its quite strange for a stronger samurai from Wano aka Oden not to know anything about it
Regarding Law's panel, Luffy just figured out how to coat CoC in that moment, but Oda, for some strange reason, immediately draws a panel where Law gets shockingly impressed by AdCoA?! 😂
Law and Oden's reaction is strictly for AdCoC not touching..
:cheers:
Hyougoro taught Luffy barrier haki, so its quite strange for a stronger samurai from Wano aka Oden not to know anything about it
Internal penetration on it's own is never drawn with a barrier IIRC. It's only when used with CoC do you see a barrier.
Kaidou does not do non contact. So if Kaidou was using advCoC, Law nor Oden would be in awe. So that point is moot anyway (actually Law himself witnessed Kaidou attacking multiple times, he was never in awe, since contact was made, only when Luffy someone who confirmed possesses highest level of advCoA uses advCoC do you get that result).
