J
DC and Marvel at this point are just gag universes
This is beyond logic and ridiculousness
Another overpowered universe
Damn
This is beyond logic and ridiculousness
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Umineko is probably the most broken verse I'm reasonably familiar with.
Umineko mid tiers (at best) can neg Jojo and most verses most people here can think of.
Destroying infinitely nested multiverses is cool and all (I will get to that later), but first let's talk about some real hax.
Dlanor A. Knox, Head Inquisitor of Heresy of the Eiserne Jungfrau.
She has a weapon called the Red Key. Well, I'll just let Vs Battles explain it.
The Red Key is a weapon that destroys on the conceptual level and for which defense is an impossibility. It may be considered a weaponised of the Red Truth (which Dlanor can also use):
Dlanor is herself a conceptual being and the manifestation of Knox's 3 Laws.
Well, now for some stats:
Speed, durability, lifting strength, striking strength, etc. most of these stats are not relevant when you're playing in the same league as beings like Dlanor; Umineko witches are beyond such mundane concepts.
I chose Dlanor because she's at best a mid tier in the grand scheme of things in Umineko. Umineko high tiers like Lambdadelta (Witch of Certainty) and Bernkastel (Witch of Miracles) are even more formidable.
Lambdadelta:
This is Lambdadelta's true Voyager form:
In her true form, she exists beyond time, space, cause and effect, fate, existence and non existence, possibility and impossibility. She's a concept that permeates all the infinite possibilities, worlds and realms.
These are some abilities Lamdadelta has (I left out the more mundane ones):
Like of the people on this forum, maybe only @Admiral Lee Hung (The One Above All from Marvel and the Presence from DC Comics), @Midnight Delight (Suggsverse probably has other Outerversal+ beings), and maybe @Sentinel could name a character that can compare to Lambdadelta.
A Umineko top tier like Featherine Augustus Aurora has a strong argument for being the most powerful character in all fiction ("The Creator" is a greater existence, but it is not meaningfully a character). I'm not even going to bother listing her stats here.
Anyway, to answer @Dragomir's question Golden Experience Requiem does not even compare to a standard witch ability like the Red Truths (absolute irrefutable truths, a Red Truth that says Giorno is dead just kills him instantly, GER be damned. It's an absolute irrefutable truth), or a mid tier's ability like the Red Key (completely destroys on a conceptual level, transcending causality, rendering evasion, defence, buying time, etc. all impossible).
It has nothing on beings for whom the concepts "striking strength", "lifting strength", "range", etc. are irrelevant.
It has nothing on beings that are casually beyond such mundane concepts like distance, time and space or even more esoteric concepts like fate, cause and effect, existence and non existence, possibility and impossibility.
Nothing on beings that "exist as a purely abstract universal law that permeates and influences all realms".
@Akai2, @Cao Cao, @playa4321, @Owl Ki, @uyuu, @RayanOO.
Umineko mid tiers (at best) can neg Jojo and most verses most people here can think of.
Destroying infinitely nested multiverses is cool and all (I will get to that later), but first let's talk about some real hax.
Dlanor A. Knox, Head Inquisitor of Heresy of the Eiserne Jungfrau.
She has a weapon called the Red Key. Well, I'll just let Vs Battles explain it.
The Red Key is a weapon that destroys on the conceptual level and for which defense is an impossibility. It may be considered a weaponised of the Red Truth (which Dlanor can also use):
Dlanor is herself a conceptual being and the manifestation of Knox's 3 Laws.
Well, now for some stats:
Speed, durability, lifting strength, striking strength, etc. most of these stats are not relevant when you're playing in the same league as beings like Dlanor; Umineko witches are beyond such mundane concepts.
I chose Dlanor because she's at best a mid tier in the grand scheme of things in Umineko. Umineko high tiers like Lambdadelta (Witch of Certainty) and Bernkastel (Witch of Miracles) are even more formidable.
Lambdadelta:
This is Lambdadelta's true Voyager form:
In her true form, she exists beyond time, space, cause and effect, fate, existence and non existence, possibility and impossibility. She's a concept that permeates all the infinite possibilities, worlds and realms.
These are some abilities Lamdadelta has (I left out the more mundane ones):
- True Godly (Voyager Witch abilities)
- Omnipresence
- Abstract Existence
- Type 1. Voyager Witches embody concepts that extend through the entire Witch's Domain, like how Lambdadelta embodies the concept of Hard Workers)
- Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
- Reactive Evolution and Adaptation
- All of the higher layers exist on the background of the Sea of Nothingness, and the beings of the higher layers may exists directly within this sea, and they adapt to the pressure due to mental and spiritual evolution),
- Acausality
- (Type 5. Exists outside the concept of Fate, Possibilities, Space-Time and Causality),
- Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.
- Regeneration
- (High-Godly. Even if the entirety of her existence is completely erased and lost to the Sea of Nothingness beyond all layers and stories, she can regain her form just by thinking),
- High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying concept(s) or information needed for them to exist.
- Absorption
- (Voyager Witches can absorb each other)
- The other Voyager witches are as ridiculous as her
- Nonexistent Physiology
- (Type 2. Exists as an entity of nothingness at the core of her being, with her physical form being constructed and defined solely by her thoughts),
- 2: Idealistic Nonexistence: The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level. Such a state defies even the most basic logical principles and is unknowable in the truest form, as it is not a state at all. Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence.
- Immortality
- Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 and 9.
- The death of her manifestation is meaningless to her in True Form and is reliant on a concept as a Voyager Witch
- 9: Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed.
- Large Size (Type 10)
- Type 10 (Higher-Order): Characters larger than a conventional multiverse, having size equivalent to higher infinities.
- Transduality (Type 1)
- Beyond existence and nonexistence
- Beyond possibility (and impossibility?)
- Mere Godly:
- Higher-Dimensional Existence
- Higher-Dimensional Manipulation
- Can manipulate Kakera, which contain infinite possibilities and higher dimensions
- Plot Manipulation
- Probability Manipulation
- Kakeras are like books and works of fiction to beings of the Higher Worlds, and by using them to create worlds, the world's events and fate is set in stone.
- Much stronger than beings who can manipulate the fate, plots, possibilities and space-time of Kakera. An expert at finding incredibly improbable Kakera.
- BFR
- Would have sealed Beatrice in the worst Kakera possible and, jut like Bernkastel, should have enough power to knock said Kakera into the depths of Oblivion, beyond all stories and layers
- Incorporeality
- Conceptual Manipulation
- Can manipulate the voids of nothingness of Kakera, as well as it's conceptual, mental and spiritual realms.
- Lives in the Higher World, were the concepts of fate and possibilities are vizualized in the form of Kakera, which she can manipulate.
- Can think concepts into existence
- Time Stop
- Of such a scale that even beings that exist outside of the concepts of space and time are still bound due to her higher dimensional powers
- Power Nullification
- Can revoke the titles of other witches
- Power Bestowal
- By turning others into witches.
- Turned Battler into the Endless Sorcerer
- Witches are generally conceptual beings and have absolute dominion over a concept, so being able to revoke and grant the title of a witch is pretty impressive. Think of her being able to make someone an outerversal level deity or take away that power from someone.
- Witches exist above an infinite hierarchy.
- True Broken
- Red and Blue Truths
- Fate Manipulation
- Causality Manipulation
- Subjective Reality
- Could have rewritten the tale of the Rokkenjima Serial Murders so that it was all just a dream
- Mathematics Manipulation
- Nani the fuck?
- Reality Warping
- Existence Erasure
- Cosmic Awareness
- Power Bestowal
- Can allow opponents to use Truths, as well as remove their access to them
- Power Nullification
- Law Manipulation
- Permission to attack the Game Master is needed for it to even happen
- Beings of Higher Worlds can impose rules within their Gameboards
- Mere Broken
- Time Manipulation
- Spatial Manipulation
- Void Manipulation
- Resurrection
- Non-Physical Interaction
- Durability Negation
- Quantum Manipulation
- Can manipulate the quantum mechanics of the Human Domain),
- Notable Mundane
Like of the people on this forum, maybe only @Admiral Lee Hung (The One Above All from Marvel and the Presence from DC Comics), @Midnight Delight (Suggsverse probably has other Outerversal+ beings), and maybe @Sentinel could name a character that can compare to Lambdadelta.
A Umineko top tier like Featherine Augustus Aurora has a strong argument for being the most powerful character in all fiction ("The Creator" is a greater existence, but it is not meaningfully a character). I'm not even going to bother listing her stats here.
Anyway, to answer @Dragomir's question Golden Experience Requiem does not even compare to a standard witch ability like the Red Truths (absolute irrefutable truths, a Red Truth that says Giorno is dead just kills him instantly, GER be damned. It's an absolute irrefutable truth), or a mid tier's ability like the Red Key (completely destroys on a conceptual level, transcending causality, rendering evasion, defence, buying time, etc. all impossible).
It has nothing on beings for whom the concepts "striking strength", "lifting strength", "range", etc. are irrelevant.
It has nothing on beings that are casually beyond such mundane concepts like distance, time and space or even more esoteric concepts like fate, cause and effect, existence and non existence, possibility and impossibility.
Nothing on beings that "exist as a purely abstract universal law that permeates and influences all realms".
@Akai2, @Cao Cao, @playa4321, @Owl Ki, @uyuu, @RayanOO.
Damn
What's wrong with overpowered verses? As long as it is good, who cares?
I also remembered some overpowered verses. Cthulhu Mythos anyone? With two omnipotents in there and a few 1A+ Tier gods (hello Nyarlatothep and Shub-Niggurath). The Dark Tower with The Crimson King and Gan. SCP Foundation (i won't even bother naming all those multiversal - outerversal characters
). Transformers (yeah, those transformers) with Infinite Multiversal Unicron and Primus. I can remember some.
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I also remembered some overpowered verses. Cthulhu Mythos anyone? With two omnipotents in there and a few 1A+ Tier gods (hello Nyarlatothep and Shub-Niggurath). The Dark Tower with The Crimson King and Gan. SCP Foundation (i won't even bother naming all those multiversal - outerversal characters
). Transformers (yeah, those transformers) with Infinite Multiversal Unicron and Primus. I can remember some.
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What's wrong with overpowered verses? As long as it is good, who cares?
I also remembered some overpowered verses. Cthulhu Mythos anyone? With two omnipotents in there and a few 1A+ Tier gods (hello Nyarlatothep and Shub-Niggurath). The Dark Tower with The Crimson King and Gan. SCP Foundation (i won't even bother naming all those multiversal - outerversal characters). Transformers (yeah, those transformers) with Infinite Multiversal Unicron and Primus. I can remember some.
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I also remembered some overpowered verses. Cthulhu Mythos anyone? With two omnipotents in there and a few 1A+ Tier gods (hello Nyarlatothep and Shub-Niggurath). The Dark Tower with The Crimson King and Gan. SCP Foundation (i won't even bother naming all those multiversal - outerversal characters
). Transformers (yeah, those transformers) with Infinite Multiversal Unicron and Primus. I can remember some.
They cannot overcome GER, the mere thought of harming the dude in any way gets negated.
GER Requiem is stronger than it though, heck he wrote off Giorno from part 6 and the story entirely because of that broken ass ability .
He survived a universal reality warping attack and was sipping coffee just fine.
@Dragomir
Basically, the only thing that can affect Giorno are multiversal reality warpers and even that could perhaps lead to a stalemate.
It’s seems people don’t understand that the action or thought of thinking about doing anything to Giorno gets negated.
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GER Requiem is stronger than it though, heck he wrote off Giorno from part 6 and the story entirely because of that broken ass ability .
He survived a universal reality warping attack and was sipping coffee just fine.
@Dragomir
Basically, the only thing that can affect Giorno are multiversal reality warpers and even that could perhaps lead to a stalemate.
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It’s seems people don’t understand that the action or thought of thinking about doing anything to Giorno gets negated.
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Yeah i mean however you try to make a solid plot for this kind of character, his or her powerlevel will dominate over the story quality so much i guess. I mean how can you make a quality character arc for someone who can treat an omnipotent god like an ant? What kind of dilemma or character progression can the story even begin to make? Since all the problems is solved by powerlevel.
The Red Truth is superior.
Red Truths are absolute irrefutable truths.
A Red Truth that says Giorno is dead guarantees it.
I mean the Red Truth has been overcome before, but the only characters that I know who resisted the Red Truth/Red Key are Outerversal Voyagers who exist purely as an embodiment of a concept that permeates and influences all realms and possibilities. They are beyond the duality of life and death, existence and nonexistence and truly abstract entities.
So the abilities that could be required to resist the Red Truth/Red Key are some combination of: Abstract Existence (Type 5), Transduality (at least Type 1), Immortalilty (Type 9), Regeneration (High Godly)
The Red Truth is pretty interesting, because it's been used by everyone from weak humans to Featherine Augustus Aurora (who's a transcendent entity even to the Voyagers).
The Red Key on the other hand completely erases on a conceptual level, rendering defence, evasion and buying time impossible. However, the power of the Red Key is guaranteed by the Witch Senate (Outerversal Voyagers), and it's only been used by Dlanor A. Knox, who's complex multiversal to hyperversal.
The Red Truth on the other hand has been used by weak characters. I doubt you'll find any other reality warping ability used on smaller scales that has only been resisted by Outerversals. So in terms of sheer brokenness, the Red Truth is probably the most hax ability. It can punch so far above the weight class of the person using it.
@Dragomir, @Sentinel, @Steven.
Red Truths are absolute irrefutable truths.
A Red Truth that says Giorno is dead guarantees it.
I mean the Red Truth has been overcome before, but the only characters that I know who resisted the Red Truth/Red Key are Outerversal Voyagers who exist purely as an embodiment of a concept that permeates and influences all realms and possibilities. They are beyond the duality of life and death, existence and nonexistence and truly abstract entities.
So the abilities that could be required to resist the Red Truth/Red Key are some combination of: Abstract Existence (Type 5), Transduality (at least Type 1), Immortalilty (Type 9), Regeneration (High Godly)
The Red Truth is pretty interesting, because it's been used by everyone from weak humans to Featherine Augustus Aurora (who's a transcendent entity even to the Voyagers).
The Red Key on the other hand completely erases on a conceptual level, rendering defence, evasion and buying time impossible. However, the power of the Red Key is guaranteed by the Witch Senate (Outerversal Voyagers), and it's only been used by Dlanor A. Knox, who's complex multiversal to hyperversal.
The Red Truth on the other hand has been used by weak characters. I doubt you'll find any other reality warping ability used on smaller scales that has only been resisted by Outerversals. So in terms of sheer brokenness, the Red Truth is probably the most hax ability. It can punch so far above the weight class of the person using it.
@Dragomir, @Sentinel, @Steven.
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It's very simple actually, you make the story not fundamentally about combat.
Umineko is about solving mysteries at it's core.
The Outerversal Voyagers can only "die" of boredom (they can't really die because of the nature of their existence, and they'll return to existence if they start thinking again), but if they get bored, they can temporarily die). Boredom is the illness which afflicts them. To combat this "fatal" illness, they create stories and game boards, often creating or collecting complex multiversal or hyperversal structures for their own pleasure.
They create avatars to descend into the lower worlds where they play their games.
Some of them are capricious, and their interactions with the humans or other Witches on the battlefield of their choice forms the core of the story.
Umineko initially centres around the game board of a limited territorial Witch who was made into a Witch by one of the Voyagers (her patron). Later said patron, and another Voyager she has a love - hate relationship shows up, and the conflict between them also progresses the story.
The protagonists of Umineko are a human family that are caught up in the game of one of these territorial Witches.
Insane power level stories can be handled very well if they are:
Insane power level stories would only be really problematic if you centered on the OP characters and made it a typical Shounen (think One Punch Man but without the humour).
Umineko is about solving mysteries at it's core.
The Outerversal Voyagers can only "die" of boredom (they can't really die because of the nature of their existence, and they'll return to existence if they start thinking again), but if they get bored, they can temporarily die). Boredom is the illness which afflicts them. To combat this "fatal" illness, they create stories and game boards, often creating or collecting complex multiversal or hyperversal structures for their own pleasure.
They create avatars to descend into the lower worlds where they play their games.
Some of them are capricious, and their interactions with the humans or other Witches on the battlefield of their choice forms the core of the story.
Umineko initially centres around the game board of a limited territorial Witch who was made into a Witch by one of the Voyagers (her patron). Later said patron, and another Voyager she has a love - hate relationship shows up, and the conflict between them also progresses the story.
The protagonists of Umineko are a human family that are caught up in the game of one of these territorial Witches.
Insane power level stories can be handled very well if they are:
- Character Driven
- The interactions and conflicts between characters drive the story, and combat progression is not core to enjoying the story
- The protagonists are not the broken powerscale characters
- Umineko is initially centered on a family that are mere pieces on the game board of one such witch
Insane power level stories would only be really problematic if you centered on the OP characters and made it a typical Shounen (think One Punch Man but without the humour).
