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Well, I remember quite some, for example
- The Quran speaking of pulsating stars, which is seen as evidence for the Quran talking about Pulsars
- The Quran talking about the development of the Embryo
- The Quran supposedly talking about the shape of the earth
- The Quran talking about the separation of saltwater and freshwater
There should be a few more which I do not remember right away, you may name the miracles you deem most convincing.
When it comes to those miracles, my issues with it are,
1) they are formulated very vaguely, 2) sometimes they contradict other verses, 3) they are partially flawed, like the description of the embryo's development and 4) The knowledge the Quran supposedly holds, was more or less formulated by people before the Quran being established, 5) the Quran has, according to my interpretation at least, many other errors. Logically, no matter how many "miracles" the Quran has, if you can find even one error, it would debunk the entirety of the Quran, since how could the message of god itself contain erroneous statements about the world. And if you claim he made those errors on purprose to deceive, how could you objectively judge that this book comes from god itself, what would you base this on.
That is my personal interpretation of course. Ironically, there are quite some Muslims who left Islam saying that the things in the Quran don't add up, and that's even though they were biased towards the Quran.
- The Quran speaking of pulsating stars, which is seen as evidence for the Quran talking about Pulsars
- The Quran talking about the development of the Embryo
- The Quran supposedly talking about the shape of the earth
- The Quran talking about the separation of saltwater and freshwater
There should be a few more which I do not remember right away, you may name the miracles you deem most convincing.
When it comes to those miracles, my issues with it are,
1) they are formulated very vaguely, 2) sometimes they contradict other verses, 3) they are partially flawed, like the description of the embryo's development and 4) The knowledge the Quran supposedly holds, was more or less formulated by people before the Quran being established, 5) the Quran has, according to my interpretation at least, many other errors. Logically, no matter how many "miracles" the Quran has, if you can find even one error, it would debunk the entirety of the Quran, since how could the message of god itself contain erroneous statements about the world. And if you claim he made those errors on purprose to deceive, how could you objectively judge that this book comes from god itself, what would you base this on.
That is my personal interpretation of course. Ironically, there are quite some Muslims who left Islam saying that the things in the Quran don't add up, and that's even though they were biased towards the Quran.
I'll start of with one example that has, very recently, blown my mind and then I will continue with other examples. Of course, if you claim contradictions to any of these proposed examples, feel free to quote the contradicting verses:
- Abu Laheb - While the revalation was still in it's infancy, the following verse was revealed to Muhammed, concerning Abu Lahab and his wife (staunch enemies of Muhammed at the time):
"The power of Abu Lahab will perish, and he will perish. His wealth and gains will not exempt him. He will be plunged in flaming Fire, and his wife, the wood carrier, will have upon her neck a halter of palm-fibre" (111:1-5)
In this verse, both Lahab and his wife are condemned to hellfire, in other words Allah confirms that they will never accept Islam. And while this prophecy was made, Muhammed was still living in Makkah, just as Abu Lahab did. Abu Lahab used to torment him daily, trying to dissuade others from joining Muhammed and Islam in any way possible. I say this to make the following point - Abu Lahab was aware of most things that were revealed to Muhammed since these revalations were becoming public.
The only thing he had to do to prove Muhammed wrong, to prove the Quran fake, was to accept Islam. And I do not mean with his heart. But just with words. A loud nad public declaration of faith would have proved the Quran a falsehood before it was even revealed in its entirety.
Alas he did not do that. And he and his wife both died as unbelievers.
- Mountains as stakes (pegs) - Nowadays it is a widely known fact that the uppermost layer of the Earth's crust floats upon a fluid-like layer of magma. Basically, our earth’s second layer which is molten and fluid-like is spinning over the inner core which is solid (because of Pressure) and then the crust where we live, it actually floating on the mantle as it is also like a thick viscous fluid. The first and uppermost layer Crust in oceans is 5-10 Km thick and in continents 25-50 Km thick. But continental surfaces are almost 80 km thick below great mountain ranges. The depths of the mountain strata go as far down as 200 km. These are the strong foundations on which mountains stand.
This is what the Quran has to say about that, 1400 years ago:
in 1912, the American astronomer, Vesto Slipher, made a discovery that would soon change astronomers’ beliefs about the universe. Slipher, noticed that the galaxies were moving away from earth at huge velocities. These observations provided the first evidence supporting the expanding-universe theory.
In 1916, Albert Einstein formulated his General Theory of Relativity that indicated that the universe must be either expanding or contracting. Confirmation of the expanding-universe theory finally came in 1929 in the hands of the well known American astronomer Edwin Hubble.
By observing redshifts in the light wavelengths emitted by galaxies, Hubble found that galaxies were not fixed in their position; instead, they were actually moving away from us with speeds proportional to their distance from earth (Hubble's Law). The only explanation for this observation was that the universe had to be expanding.
As for the expansion of the universe, the Quran says this:
The Big Bang theory states that around 12-15 billion years ago the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point, and that something triggered the explosion of this point that brought about the beginning of the universe. The universe, since then, has been expanding from this single point.
Later, in 1965, radio astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson made a Noble Prize winning discovery that confirmed the Big Bang theory. Prior to their discovery, the theory implied that if the single point from which the universe came into existence was initially extremely hot, then remnants of this heat should be found. This remnant heat is exactly what Penzias and Wilson found. In 1965, Penzias and Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMB) that spreads through the universe. Thus, it was understood that the radiation found was a remnant of the initial stages of the Big Bang. Presently, the Big Bang theory is accepted by the vast majority of scientists and astronomers.
The Quran says the following regarding this phenomenon:
- "Arabic words ratq and fataq are used. The word ratq can be translated into “entity” “sewn to” “joined together” or “closed up”. The meaning of these translations all circulate around something that is mixed and that has a separate and distinct existence. The verb fataq is translated into “We unstitched” “We clove them asunder” “We separated” or “We have opened them”. These meanings imply that something comes into being by an action of splitting or tearing apart. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is a good example of a similar illustration of the meaning of the verb fataq."
I will later continue with those ones you brought up in your original response. I have to water my garden now
I'll continue on now:
- Embryology and the journey of the sperm -
I'll be honest, my own knowledge of embryology is quite limited to high school biology classes. So, I'll refer to this video which goes through the process, described both in modern scientific terms as well as in the Quran:
- Pulsars -
I had to look up what they are in detail and found a cool video where you can HEAR a pulsar. Pretty neat:
Anyway, Pulsars emit a knocking sound that can be picked up by strong radiotelescopes (such as in the linked video).
This is the Holy Quran's description of them:
Tarek الطَّارِقُ" means the one who knocks. The Arabic word "Thukb ثقب" means a hole; "Thakeb ثَّاقِبُ" means the one who makes a hole. The Quran is describing a knocking star that makes a hole.
Pulsars are rotating neutron stars. As more matter falls into a neutron star its mass increases, and as its mass increases its gravity increases. But gravity is curvature of spacetime. A neutron star distorts spacetime. The more matter falls into a neutron star the more distortion it makes. A point will be reached where distortion would have grown so much that it makes a hole in spacetime.
In my next response I'll tackle the last two points you made and make one other important point in regards to these revalations and their timing
- Abu Laheb - While the revalation was still in it's infancy, the following verse was revealed to Muhammed, concerning Abu Lahab and his wife (staunch enemies of Muhammed at the time):
"The power of Abu Lahab will perish, and he will perish. His wealth and gains will not exempt him. He will be plunged in flaming Fire, and his wife, the wood carrier, will have upon her neck a halter of palm-fibre" (111:1-5)
In this verse, both Lahab and his wife are condemned to hellfire, in other words Allah confirms that they will never accept Islam. And while this prophecy was made, Muhammed was still living in Makkah, just as Abu Lahab did. Abu Lahab used to torment him daily, trying to dissuade others from joining Muhammed and Islam in any way possible. I say this to make the following point - Abu Lahab was aware of most things that were revealed to Muhammed since these revalations were becoming public.
The only thing he had to do to prove Muhammed wrong, to prove the Quran fake, was to accept Islam. And I do not mean with his heart. But just with words. A loud nad public declaration of faith would have proved the Quran a falsehood before it was even revealed in its entirety.
Alas he did not do that. And he and his wife both died as unbelievers.
- Mountains as stakes (pegs) - Nowadays it is a widely known fact that the uppermost layer of the Earth's crust floats upon a fluid-like layer of magma. Basically, our earth’s second layer which is molten and fluid-like is spinning over the inner core which is solid (because of Pressure) and then the crust where we live, it actually floating on the mantle as it is also like a thick viscous fluid. The first and uppermost layer Crust in oceans is 5-10 Km thick and in continents 25-50 Km thick. But continental surfaces are almost 80 km thick below great mountain ranges. The depths of the mountain strata go as far down as 200 km. These are the strong foundations on which mountains stand.
This is what the Quran has to say about that, 1400 years ago:
"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse (Resting Place)
And the mountains as pegs?"Surah Naba 78: 6-7
- The Big Bang and the expansion of the universe - And the mountains as pegs?"Surah Naba 78: 6-7
in 1912, the American astronomer, Vesto Slipher, made a discovery that would soon change astronomers’ beliefs about the universe. Slipher, noticed that the galaxies were moving away from earth at huge velocities. These observations provided the first evidence supporting the expanding-universe theory.
In 1916, Albert Einstein formulated his General Theory of Relativity that indicated that the universe must be either expanding or contracting. Confirmation of the expanding-universe theory finally came in 1929 in the hands of the well known American astronomer Edwin Hubble.
By observing redshifts in the light wavelengths emitted by galaxies, Hubble found that galaxies were not fixed in their position; instead, they were actually moving away from us with speeds proportional to their distance from earth (Hubble's Law). The only explanation for this observation was that the universe had to be expanding.
As for the expansion of the universe, the Quran says this:
“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.” (51:47)
Soon after Hubble published his theory, he went on to discover that not only were galaxies moving away from the Earth, but were also moving away from one another. This meant that the universe happened to be expanding in every direction, in the same way a balloon expands when filled with air. Hubble’s new findings placed the foundations for the Big Bang theory.
The Big Bang theory states that around 12-15 billion years ago the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point, and that something triggered the explosion of this point that brought about the beginning of the universe. The universe, since then, has been expanding from this single point.
Later, in 1965, radio astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson made a Noble Prize winning discovery that confirmed the Big Bang theory. Prior to their discovery, the theory implied that if the single point from which the universe came into existence was initially extremely hot, then remnants of this heat should be found. This remnant heat is exactly what Penzias and Wilson found. In 1965, Penzias and Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMB) that spreads through the universe. Thus, it was understood that the radiation found was a remnant of the initial stages of the Big Bang. Presently, the Big Bang theory is accepted by the vast majority of scientists and astronomers.
The Quran says the following regarding this phenomenon:
“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” ( 21:30)
A commentary on that verse says the following:
- "Arabic words ratq and fataq are used. The word ratq can be translated into “entity” “sewn to” “joined together” or “closed up”. The meaning of these translations all circulate around something that is mixed and that has a separate and distinct existence. The verb fataq is translated into “We unstitched” “We clove them asunder” “We separated” or “We have opened them”. These meanings imply that something comes into being by an action of splitting or tearing apart. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is a good example of a similar illustration of the meaning of the verb fataq."
I will later continue with those ones you brought up in your original response. I have to water my garden now
[automerge]1660847667[/automerge]I'll continue on now:
- Embryology and the journey of the sperm -
I'll be honest, my own knowledge of embryology is quite limited to high school biology classes. So, I'll refer to this video which goes through the process, described both in modern scientific terms as well as in the Quran:
- Pulsars -
I had to look up what they are in detail and found a cool video where you can HEAR a pulsar. Pretty neat:
This is the Holy Quran's description of them:
And the heaven and the "Knocker" How could you know about the "Knocker"? The piercing star. 86: 1-3
١ وَالسَّمَاءِ وَالطَّارِقِ
٢ وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا الطَّارِقُ
٣ النَّجْمُ الثَّاقِبُ
١ وَالسَّمَاءِ وَالطَّارِقِ
٢ وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا الطَّارِقُ
٣ النَّجْمُ الثَّاقِبُ
Tarek الطَّارِقُ" means the one who knocks. The Arabic word "Thukb ثقب" means a hole; "Thakeb ثَّاقِبُ" means the one who makes a hole. The Quran is describing a knocking star that makes a hole.
Pulsars are rotating neutron stars. As more matter falls into a neutron star its mass increases, and as its mass increases its gravity increases. But gravity is curvature of spacetime. A neutron star distorts spacetime. The more matter falls into a neutron star the more distortion it makes. A point will be reached where distortion would have grown so much that it makes a hole in spacetime.
In my next response I'll tackle the last two points you made and make one other important point in regards to these revalations and their timing
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jazakallah bro.. its actually being petty for details when you get a general concept but you criticize that its not elaborate enough or it already exists..
thats is nit the point.. the point is how does an illiterate farmer in Saudia of all place barely known for any educational hubs at that time was able to know this..
but ofc people turn a blind eye and make excuses and try to fit their requirements...
like get off the high horse bruh.
thats is nit the point.. the point is how does an illiterate farmer in Saudia of all place barely known for any educational hubs at that time was able to know this..
but ofc people turn a blind eye and make excuses and try to fit their requirements...
like get off the high horse bruh.
- As for the shape of the earth, do you mean the fact that it's spherical? That has been known since Euclides afaik.
- Freshwater and salwater separation -
An answer from someone who already did tge research:
Consider the following Quranic verses: "He has let free the two bodies Of flowing water, Meeting together: Between them is a Barrier Which they do not transgress." [55:19-20]
In the Arabic text the word barzakh means a barrier or a partition. This barrier is not a physical partition. The Arabic word maraja literally means 'they both meet and mix with each other'. Early commentators of the Quran were unable to explain the two opposite meanings for the two bodies of water, i.e. they meet and mix, and at the same time, there is a barrier between them. Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity and density. [Principles of Oceanography, Davis, pp. 92-93] Oceanologists are now in a better position to explain this verse. There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the two seas through which water from one sea passes to the other.
But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters. This scientific phenomenon mentioned in the Quran was also confirmed by Dr. William Hay who is a well-known marine scientist and Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, U.S.A. The Quran mentions this phenomenon also in the following verse: "And made a separating bar between the two bodies Of flowing water?" [27:61]
This phenomenon occurs in several places, including the divider between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean at Gibralter. But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of "a forbidding partition" with the barrier. "It is He Who has Let free the two bodies Of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, And the other salty and bitter; Yet has He Made a barrier between them, And a partition that is forbidden To be passed." [ 25:53]
Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt-water meet, the situation is somewhat different from that found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers." [Oceanography, Gross, p. 242. Also see Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.] This partition (zone of separation) has salinity different from both the fresh water and the salt water. [Oceanography, Gross, p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.]
This phenomenon occurs in several places, including Egypt, where the river Nile flows into the Mediterranean Sea.
Now, for what I wanted to mention. And in case I misinterpreted something, I would like some of my brothers or sisters to correct me:
Looking for 1:1 modern scientific definitions, mathematical equations, etc in the Quran is in itself a wrong stand point to have.
Why?
Consider the time and place it was revealed - the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century CE. A time and place of extremely limited scientific knowledge. So much so that the state of the peninsula before Islam is descrived as Jahiliyyah or The Age of Ignorance (so, not only religiously).
Due to that, consider the people who were the firat to hear it? Virtually all illiterate, with highly limited knowledge on anything outside of their immediate backyard. Once again, ignorant.
Then, from a religious standpoint, since the Quran is a Holy book, it is a message for eternity. From the time it was revealed to the time that time will cease to be. Therefore, it's verbiage needs to be all encompasing and it is for the people of different eras to read the Quran (preferably in Arabic, since that is the original language and if you're familiar with translation, things can not always be translated 1:1) and look at it through the technological and scientific advancements of that time period.
None of the things both of us mentioned would have been relevant to an Arab in the 7th century. Or anyone at that time.
But in the 20th century the Knocking star starts to make sense, the way tge earth and the stars were together but were thrown asunder makes sense.
Why? Because we have science to help us make sense of it.
Lastly, and most importantly. Science and the seeking of knowledge are inseparable from the Holy Quran.
The very first words that were revealed to Prophet Muhammed were "Read, read in the name of your Lord".
It is not my goal to convince you to believe. That is your own path. And besides, for debates of that level, a real life talk is the best with a scholar knowledgable in the Quran, hadith, and science. But we can still have these mock arguments on an anime forum
- Freshwater and salwater separation -
An answer from someone who already did tge research:
Consider the following Quranic verses: "He has let free the two bodies Of flowing water, Meeting together: Between them is a Barrier Which they do not transgress." [55:19-20]
In the Arabic text the word barzakh means a barrier or a partition. This barrier is not a physical partition. The Arabic word maraja literally means 'they both meet and mix with each other'. Early commentators of the Quran were unable to explain the two opposite meanings for the two bodies of water, i.e. they meet and mix, and at the same time, there is a barrier between them. Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity and density. [Principles of Oceanography, Davis, pp. 92-93] Oceanologists are now in a better position to explain this verse. There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the two seas through which water from one sea passes to the other.
But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters. This scientific phenomenon mentioned in the Quran was also confirmed by Dr. William Hay who is a well-known marine scientist and Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, U.S.A. The Quran mentions this phenomenon also in the following verse: "And made a separating bar between the two bodies Of flowing water?" [27:61]
This phenomenon occurs in several places, including the divider between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean at Gibralter. But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of "a forbidding partition" with the barrier. "It is He Who has Let free the two bodies Of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, And the other salty and bitter; Yet has He Made a barrier between them, And a partition that is forbidden To be passed." [ 25:53]
Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt-water meet, the situation is somewhat different from that found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers." [Oceanography, Gross, p. 242. Also see Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.] This partition (zone of separation) has salinity different from both the fresh water and the salt water. [Oceanography, Gross, p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.]
This phenomenon occurs in several places, including Egypt, where the river Nile flows into the Mediterranean Sea.
Now, for what I wanted to mention. And in case I misinterpreted something, I would like some of my brothers or sisters to correct me:
Looking for 1:1 modern scientific definitions, mathematical equations, etc in the Quran is in itself a wrong stand point to have.
Why?
Consider the time and place it was revealed - the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century CE. A time and place of extremely limited scientific knowledge. So much so that the state of the peninsula before Islam is descrived as Jahiliyyah or The Age of Ignorance (so, not only religiously).
Due to that, consider the people who were the firat to hear it? Virtually all illiterate, with highly limited knowledge on anything outside of their immediate backyard. Once again, ignorant.
Then, from a religious standpoint, since the Quran is a Holy book, it is a message for eternity. From the time it was revealed to the time that time will cease to be. Therefore, it's verbiage needs to be all encompasing and it is for the people of different eras to read the Quran (preferably in Arabic, since that is the original language and if you're familiar with translation, things can not always be translated 1:1) and look at it through the technological and scientific advancements of that time period.
None of the things both of us mentioned would have been relevant to an Arab in the 7th century. Or anyone at that time.
But in the 20th century the Knocking star starts to make sense, the way tge earth and the stars were together but were thrown asunder makes sense.
Why? Because we have science to help us make sense of it.
Lastly, and most importantly. Science and the seeking of knowledge are inseparable from the Holy Quran.
The very first words that were revealed to Prophet Muhammed were "Read, read in the name of your Lord".
It is not my goal to convince you to believe. That is your own path. And besides, for debates of that level, a real life talk is the best with a scholar knowledgable in the Quran, hadith, and science. But we can still have these mock arguments on an anime forum
Please don’t argue with those guys and try to prove to them anything especially those who are arguing for the sake of arguing,
it’s a place for Muslims to chat and chill in an anime forum
Islam is a very clear, straightforward and very logical and contains many proofs in any area
If anyone wants the Truth and seek it genuinely, they will find Islam resonating deeply with their minds and souls
Other than that it’s a waste of time
it’s a place for Muslims to chat and chill in an anime forum
Islam is a very clear, straightforward and very logical and contains many proofs in any area
If anyone wants the Truth and seek it genuinely, they will find Islam resonating deeply with their minds and souls
Other than that it’s a waste of time
As for some of the things being "vague" would it make sense for god to go into complete detail for the minority of people trying to disprove the quran's validity just to prove that his message is in fact the truth? It wouldn't make sense for god almighty to have to explain himself to his own creation.
Jesus came hundreds of years before muhammed(pbuh) meaning the gospel and torah also did. I dont know the content inside the gospel or torah so I wouldn't be able to say if any of this knowledge was mentioned in these text's but then again, that brings problems. Even though there are 4 main gospels, there are countless other versions (some of which have been banned iirc). Each and every one of them tells the same stories from different points of view. If there are disputes over which is most correct how could you depend on any of them. If anyone was able to change it up back then and make their own version, how could you know which one is man-made. Although I don't know shit about christianity and the gospels there is a chance it's in there but we'll never know who it's from. Your 5th point is from your own interpretation/views so I can't say your incorrect. Could you give some examples of the verses that contradict others. Have you read thru or is this from something like a website. A lot can be taken out of context and misunderstood even for muslims. That's why there is a such thing as tafsir. heres the definition "Although Muslims read the Quran and pursue it with interpretation regularly, the reading of Tafsir has its significance. The goal of a Tafsir is to discover the genuine implications of the sections/chapters of the Quran. Quran Tafsir utilizes a compilation of other sciences such as linguistics, fiqh, hadith, and theology to provide a detailed explanation, translation, and clear understanding of Allah’s (SWT) words and message."
lol at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own belief. Whether or not you believe in god, we'll see for ourselves when we die. tbh i got nothing to lose if my religion tells me that following it will grant me heaven and god being pleased with what I did. It's not like I would be able to feel regret/dissapointment if I was dead and there was no afterlife. But just know its not like science has an explanation for everything.This was a short discussion but it was nice talking to you. I got tired of typing all this.
( And they say: "When we are bones and fragments (destroyed), should we really be resurrected (to be) a new creation?" Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) "Be you stones or iron," "Or some created thing that is yet greater (or harder) in your breasts (thoughts to be resurrected, even then you shall be resurrected)." Then, they will say: "Who shall bring us back (to life)?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then, they will shake their heads at you and say: "When will that be?" Say: "Perhaps it is near!" On the Day when He will call you, and you will answer (His Call) with (words of) His Praise and Obedience, and you will think that you have stayed (in this world) but a little while!) Surah Isra 49-52
Jesus came hundreds of years before muhammed(pbuh) meaning the gospel and torah also did. I dont know the content inside the gospel or torah so I wouldn't be able to say if any of this knowledge was mentioned in these text's but then again, that brings problems. Even though there are 4 main gospels, there are countless other versions (some of which have been banned iirc). Each and every one of them tells the same stories from different points of view. If there are disputes over which is most correct how could you depend on any of them. If anyone was able to change it up back then and make their own version, how could you know which one is man-made. Although I don't know shit about christianity and the gospels there is a chance it's in there but we'll never know who it's from. Your 5th point is from your own interpretation/views so I can't say your incorrect. Could you give some examples of the verses that contradict others. Have you read thru or is this from something like a website. A lot can be taken out of context and misunderstood even for muslims. That's why there is a such thing as tafsir. heres the definition "Although Muslims read the Quran and pursue it with interpretation regularly, the reading of Tafsir has its significance. The goal of a Tafsir is to discover the genuine implications of the sections/chapters of the Quran. Quran Tafsir utilizes a compilation of other sciences such as linguistics, fiqh, hadith, and theology to provide a detailed explanation, translation, and clear understanding of Allah’s (SWT) words and message."
lol at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own belief. Whether or not you believe in god, we'll see for ourselves when we die. tbh i got nothing to lose if my religion tells me that following it will grant me heaven and god being pleased with what I did. It's not like I would be able to feel regret/dissapointment if I was dead and there was no afterlife. But just know its not like science has an explanation for everything.This was a short discussion but it was nice talking to you. I got tired of typing all this.
( And they say: "When we are bones and fragments (destroyed), should we really be resurrected (to be) a new creation?" Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) "Be you stones or iron," "Or some created thing that is yet greater (or harder) in your breasts (thoughts to be resurrected, even then you shall be resurrected)." Then, they will say: "Who shall bring us back (to life)?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then, they will shake their heads at you and say: "When will that be?" Say: "Perhaps it is near!" On the Day when He will call you, and you will answer (His Call) with (words of) His Praise and Obedience, and you will think that you have stayed (in this world) but a little while!) Surah Isra 49-52
Salam bro
[automerge]1665324047[/automerge]
Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) said:
“I wish I could see my brothers.”
The Companions said:”aren’t we your brothers 0 Prophet of Allah?” He replied: “No, you are my companions. My brothers are those who come after me and believe in me without seeing me.”
On his day of birth may Allah send his peace and
blessings upon his pure beloved soul <3
[automerge]1665324047[/automerge]
Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) said:
“I wish I could see my brothers.”
The Companions said:”aren’t we your brothers 0 Prophet of Allah?” He replied: “No, you are my companions. My brothers are those who come after me and believe in me without seeing me.”
On his day of birth may Allah send his peace and
blessings upon his pure beloved soul <3
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30ish days till Ramadan
Any personal goals for this year? Something you would like to improve on, learn about more, or apply more in your life during and after these 30 days?
My personal goal:
- I've been trying to learn the Arabic script (sufara as we call it) and my goal is to read the Qur'an in Arabic this year, as much as I can accomplish.
-And since I won't read it perfectly, being an amateur at the script, I'll reap double the rewards
Any personal goals for this year? Something you would like to improve on, learn about more, or apply more in your life during and after these 30 days?
My personal goal:
- I've been trying to learn the Arabic script (sufara as we call it) and my goal is to read the Qur'an in Arabic this year, as much as I can accomplish.
-And since I won't read it perfectly, being an amateur at the script, I'll reap double the rewards
30ish days till Ramadan
Any personal goals for this year? Something you would like to improve on, learn about more, or apply more in your life during and after these 30 days?
My personal goal:
- I've been trying to learn the Arabic script (sufara as we call it) and my goal is to read the Qur'an in Arabic this year, as much as I can accomplish.
-And since I won't read it perfectly, being an amateur at the script, I'll reap double the rewards
Any personal goals for this year? Something you would like to improve on, learn about more, or apply more in your life during and after these 30 days?
My personal goal:
- I've been trying to learn the Arabic script (sufara as we call it) and my goal is to read the Qur'an in Arabic this year, as much as I can accomplish.
-And since I won't read it perfectly, being an amateur at the script, I'll reap double the rewards
Oh ok. So you gotta learn the alif baa taa. Tbf its really not that hard.
You gotta:-
- Learn the alphabets and their sounds
- Learn the harakah (vowels), what sounds they make with the letters. Their 3 main ones (upper, lower, and another one idk how to explain)
- You also gotta know how the letters look when they are joined
But yh its pretty nice and easy to learn. Also you need to learn tongue placements.
You gotta:-
- Learn the alphabets and their sounds
- Learn the harakah (vowels), what sounds they make with the letters. Their 3 main ones (upper, lower, and another one idk how to explain)
- You also gotta know how the letters look when they are joined
But yh its pretty nice and easy to learn. Also you need to learn tongue placements.
@Chrono @NikaInParis where are you guys from? Seems pretty hard to learn Surahs in Latin first.