Character Discussion Kaido should have been treated like WB. Why does Oda only hype up good guys, and not the villains?
- Thread starter soupongo
- Start date
Oda just had an issue committing to Kaido’s portrayal because he did not want to diminish the other top tiers.
The best he could do was make it all hear-say and pay lip service to it…rather than having Kaido actually come out on top in a fight with another Yonko, for example.
At the end of the day, it now looks like Kaido was actually just hiding away in his fortress for decades, trying to avoid the few challenges that came his away, and having PTSD from the guy he beat unfairly so many years ago.
The reality on the ground just makes it so many don’t take any of the statements about him seriously.
The best he could do was make it all hear-say and pay lip service to it…rather than having Kaido actually come out on top in a fight with another Yonko, for example.
At the end of the day, it now looks like Kaido was actually just hiding away in his fortress for decades, trying to avoid the few challenges that came his away, and having PTSD from the guy he beat unfairly so many years ago.
The reality on the ground just makes it so many don’t take any of the statements about him seriously.
Again, don´t you see the issue that we have to hype Kaido through like, the SBS and a book Oda didn´t directly write? Oda could have easily made Kaido a rival of Roger, and showed us in the Manga he used to to fight WB, maybe even show us that he did beat some other top tiers. Leaving it to us to debate is only done with villains
His ¨rivals¨ in this context are revealed in random SBS´s years after Kaidos arc in the manga ends. Why not show us this guy years ago?
I fundamentally disagree with the perspective that characters not going to Wano means they´re not able to beat Kaido. In the case of Gaban, you are developing schizophrenia to interpret him wanting to visit a country he went to years ago to be about him being afraid of Kaido, something he never said. And again, the fact that you´re making it about admirals isn´t helpful, as they are also generally villains
Post automatically merged:
His ¨rivals¨ in this context are revealed in random SBS´s years after Kaidos arc in the manga ends. Why not show us this guy years ago?
Post automatically merged:
I fundamentally disagree with the perspective that characters not going to Wano means they´re not able to beat Kaido. In the case of Gaban, you are developing schizophrenia to interpret him wanting to visit a country he went to years ago to be about him being afraid of Kaido, something he never said. And again, the fact that you´re making it about admirals isn´t helpful, as they are also generally villains
Not just Whitebeard. Marco too
Shanks wanted him in his own crew
Portrayed as the man who stood in Admiral’s way against the “king” and couldn’t get past him
Next in line as the Yonko candidate after WB lost
Recruited by Neko as a secret powerful ally
Respected by BM and admitted she didn’t wanna spare any souls on him
2v1d 1.3 bil bounty commanders while healing the Alliance and doing other shit
Blocked one of Kaido’s signature attacks despite being gassed out
Marco might be the most respected YC1 among all top tiers so far. That’s why even on any powerscaling list you will never see him as the weakest, he’s always in the middle or above
Shanks wanted him in his own crew
Portrayed as the man who stood in Admiral’s way against the “king” and couldn’t get past him
Next in line as the Yonko candidate after WB lost
Recruited by Neko as a secret powerful ally
Respected by BM and admitted she didn’t wanna spare any souls on him
2v1d 1.3 bil bounty commanders while healing the Alliance and doing other shit
Blocked one of Kaido’s signature attacks despite being gassed out
Marco might be the most respected YC1 among all top tiers so far. That’s why even on any powerscaling list you will never see him as the weakest, he’s always in the middle or above
Kaido was hyped a lot and had a badass portrayal but sadly he alongside his crew, and even more Big Mom, were victims of a shitty arc with it being clear that the Straw Hats and the Supernovas weren't ready to take on an Emperor and his crew, hence the massive plot armor and nerf that ruined the portrayals and all sense of danger and stakes, not counting that shitty Oden thing. Oda really wrote himself in a corner with his writing of the Yonko saga, and Wano in particular.
Hello, so I just wanted to compare two different characters portrayals today and a broader issue with OP. So first we can start with their introductions/titles. So Whitebeards is simple
The Narrator keeps it pretty simple here. He is the strongest man in the world. There´s not much to debate(though some autistic fans do try starting a debate about it, for whatever reason).
Now with Kaidos intro/Title
Okay so, while this one is cool, I do have some issues with it. While with Whitebeard it´s kept simple, this time, Kaidos title is a bit more complicated. The Narrator says,¨this pirate is said to be the strongest alive¨. You can interpret this however you want, but I have to wonder, why even leave it up to interpretation? Why do the ¨said to be¨ thing? Why say creature instead of saying man? With WB dead, why cant Kaido simply be called the new strongest man in the world?
Anyway, my second issue can be shown in this very panel, Whitebeards dick is constantly sucked by every single character in the manga. Kaido sucks Whitebeards dick in his own intro, hyping up a dead man. We can see this from other characters too, like Garp for example
Garp makes it simple, he calls him the king of the seas.
Sengoku drops to his knees and opens his mouth to give him a blowjob, shocking everyone and says that WB can destroy the world. Doflamingo also goes as far as to say that Whitebeard was sitting in front of Rogers throne and could have claimed it if he wanted, something other characters have implied before.
We also have random civilians freaking out about Whitebeard. Oda wanted to hype up WB so much, he had a random Muslim lady(or catholic, I guess) pray that he doesn´t destroy the entire world while her kids call him the devil.
The only characters in the manga who ever say anything to disrespect WB are, Akainu and Blackbeard. Now, both of these characters famously get beat up by him. Either way, these characters critiques of him are somewhat complicated. Akainu implies that WB is a loser because he could never attain the pirate king title, and just decided to harbor pirates instead, mocking the idea that this could be a family. This ties in pretty deeply with Akainus dislike of pirates and isn´t really that personal. Blackbeard on the other hand, just implies that he could have saved Ace in the past but he declined. This is just showing Blackbeard used to suck his captains dick as much as everyone else, but lost interest. Now Kaido on the other hand, gets called, the strongest by his own crew and personal dick suckers like King or old friends like Big mom,but lacks the hype from his enemies like the Navy. We can see the navy´s opinion on Kaido pretty clearly in this one reaction from Garp to Big mom and Kaido made an alliance.
Garp sees it as just one more annoyance. He doesn´t say anything about how Kaido ruled the seas or could destroy the world. He´s just one of many problems. Also, we can´t ignore the infamous scene of Kizaru saying he will go to Wano.
You can think whatever you want about this scene, wrong or not, no one in the manga ever corrects Kizaru for saying this. Akainu just points out the Samurai are an unknown force and they can be a problem. Some fans may say Greenbull not wanting to go to Wano while Kaido ruled could be an example of the marines respecting Kaido, but this just isn´t the same. Not wanting to personally go and attack your enemies main territory is just a risk he didn´t want to take. When the marines discuss Kaido, they have a sober, rational analysis. When they discuss Whitebeard, they soyface and start talking about how he can destroy the world. There´s no random civilians freaking out about the king of the beasts destroying the world either.
There also seems to be a difference in influence. When WB dies, Oda beats it into our heads, that WB kept multiple islands safe from the great age of pirates.
We get to visit one of these islands, Fmi, where its mentioned that WB protected the island and was the only human they ever liked. The rest of his territories were taken by Blackbeard after fighting a war with the remaining WBP. Now with Kaidos, territories, well
Yeah, its shown that he had one more then Wano in a cover story. But, nothing has been shown with the beast pirates trying to keep a control of any of their other territories nor fighting any wars over it. This could be shown later on, but we see in the Yamato cover story, they are trying to currently kill eachother over a small base in Wano..... While WB feels like a pirate emperor, with countless territories and is always shown to be on the sea, Kaido feels more like a pirate dictator, who took over one country and camped there. Frankly, for a character who could have been the pirate version of Genghis Khan, I expected Kaido to have many more territories, but based on manga canon, it does seem like he was the retired pirate version of Kim Jong Un. No one ever implies it´s Kaidos era, or that he could become pirate king or anything like that aside from his own crew.
Another thing I wanted to point out is that while WB and Kaido both lose and eat shit, WB gets a million excuses in the story. Omg he was sick and had cancer, omg, he was 1000 years old, omg he got stabbed by his own ally. Meanwhile, with Kaido, people try arguing that he actually lost because he had to fight plenty of guys before Luffy, and while this isn´t entirely wrong, those injuries from previous characters aren´t shown to be that significant, and Oda actually portrays it as Luffy being the man who beat him, and therefore got his Yonko title.
Now let´s just be honest. Can you ever imagine Oda writing a panel describing Blackbeard as the man who took down WB? It just wouldn´t happen, no one could even imagine that happening.
Next, I wanted to discuss their relationship with Roger. WB and Roger are stated to be equals and good friends. Everyone loves the iconic scene of WB and Roger drinking together.
Roger and Kaido aren´t shown to have a real connection at all. Instead of anything implying Roger ever respected Kaido or hung out with him. Kaido even sucks his dick for no real reason, randomly mentioning how he conquered the world with his large cock.
Now lets think about the larger context. Roger in his prime basically had zero rivals who were bad guys. He had Whitebeard, the most wholesome chungus pirate in the world, and Garp, luffys morally pure grandpa and genocide defender.(I do realize Shiki exists, but he honestly isn´t really shown in the manga much, and no one really hypes up his rivalry with Roger like they do WB and Garp). Can you imagine, if in another manga, like Naruto for example, it is shown that the first Hokages real rival wasn´t madara, but instead two chill guys from the Cloud and Sand village, and Madara is just another guy the First Hokage low diffed, while Madara was actually rivals with a random fodder ninja Sasuke beat, or a pre time skip villain?
And this goes much beyond these two characters. When Kaido thinks of the 5 strongest people hes ever known, he thinks of 4 explicit good guys,and one potentially evil guy
The main complaint people have with this ranking is that Garp(good guy),Mihawk(generally good guy coded given that he trained a SH, but this could change, I guess) and Rayleigh(good guy) weren´t featured, lol.
We can also think of Luffys two ¨rivals¨. Trafalgar Water D Law, Luffys fascist best friend
and Eustass Captain Kidd, the man who committed the crime of being a pirate in a manga about pirates. While both of these characters end up losing to a yonko after Wano, Law(Good guy) is able to have an okay match with Blackbeard(bad guy). It lasts a couple chapters, and his crewmate helps get him out of the battle. While Law does lose, he keeps his dignity. Now compare that fight too Kidd(bad guy)vs Shanks(good guy) where Shanks negs Kidd and his right hand man in 0.5 seconds by sneezing at him or something. I really do have to wonder if Oda just likes drawing bad guys eating shit and genuinely gets mad about the crimes his own characters have done. No matter what the reason is, I think it´s kind of an issue with the manga.
The Narrator keeps it pretty simple here. He is the strongest man in the world. There´s not much to debate(though some autistic fans do try starting a debate about it, for whatever reason).
Now with Kaidos intro/Title
Okay so, while this one is cool, I do have some issues with it. While with Whitebeard it´s kept simple, this time, Kaidos title is a bit more complicated. The Narrator says,¨this pirate is said to be the strongest alive¨. You can interpret this however you want, but I have to wonder, why even leave it up to interpretation? Why do the ¨said to be¨ thing? Why say creature instead of saying man? With WB dead, why cant Kaido simply be called the new strongest man in the world?
Anyway, my second issue can be shown in this very panel, Whitebeards dick is constantly sucked by every single character in the manga. Kaido sucks Whitebeards dick in his own intro, hyping up a dead man. We can see this from other characters too, like Garp for example
Garp makes it simple, he calls him the king of the seas.
Sengoku drops to his knees and opens his mouth to give him a blowjob, shocking everyone and says that WB can destroy the world. Doflamingo also goes as far as to say that Whitebeard was sitting in front of Rogers throne and could have claimed it if he wanted, something other characters have implied before.
We also have random civilians freaking out about Whitebeard. Oda wanted to hype up WB so much, he had a random Muslim lady(or catholic, I guess) pray that he doesn´t destroy the entire world while her kids call him the devil.
The only characters in the manga who ever say anything to disrespect WB are, Akainu and Blackbeard. Now, both of these characters famously get beat up by him. Either way, these characters critiques of him are somewhat complicated. Akainu implies that WB is a loser because he could never attain the pirate king title, and just decided to harbor pirates instead, mocking the idea that this could be a family. This ties in pretty deeply with Akainus dislike of pirates and isn´t really that personal. Blackbeard on the other hand, just implies that he could have saved Ace in the past but he declined. This is just showing Blackbeard used to suck his captains dick as much as everyone else, but lost interest. Now Kaido on the other hand, gets called, the strongest by his own crew and personal dick suckers like King or old friends like Big mom,but lacks the hype from his enemies like the Navy. We can see the navy´s opinion on Kaido pretty clearly in this one reaction from Garp to Big mom and Kaido made an alliance.
Garp sees it as just one more annoyance. He doesn´t say anything about how Kaido ruled the seas or could destroy the world. He´s just one of many problems. Also, we can´t ignore the infamous scene of Kizaru saying he will go to Wano.
You can think whatever you want about this scene, wrong or not, no one in the manga ever corrects Kizaru for saying this. Akainu just points out the Samurai are an unknown force and they can be a problem. Some fans may say Greenbull not wanting to go to Wano while Kaido ruled could be an example of the marines respecting Kaido, but this just isn´t the same. Not wanting to personally go and attack your enemies main territory is just a risk he didn´t want to take. When the marines discuss Kaido, they have a sober, rational analysis. When they discuss Whitebeard, they soyface and start talking about how he can destroy the world. There´s no random civilians freaking out about the king of the beasts destroying the world either.
There also seems to be a difference in influence. When WB dies, Oda beats it into our heads, that WB kept multiple islands safe from the great age of pirates.
We get to visit one of these islands, Fmi, where its mentioned that WB protected the island and was the only human they ever liked. The rest of his territories were taken by Blackbeard after fighting a war with the remaining WBP. Now with Kaidos, territories, well
Yeah, its shown that he had one more then Wano in a cover story. But, nothing has been shown with the beast pirates trying to keep a control of any of their other territories nor fighting any wars over it. This could be shown later on, but we see in the Yamato cover story, they are trying to currently kill eachother over a small base in Wano..... While WB feels like a pirate emperor, with countless territories and is always shown to be on the sea, Kaido feels more like a pirate dictator, who took over one country and camped there. Frankly, for a character who could have been the pirate version of Genghis Khan, I expected Kaido to have many more territories, but based on manga canon, it does seem like he was the retired pirate version of Kim Jong Un. No one ever implies it´s Kaidos era, or that he could become pirate king or anything like that aside from his own crew.
Another thing I wanted to point out is that while WB and Kaido both lose and eat shit, WB gets a million excuses in the story. Omg he was sick and had cancer, omg, he was 1000 years old, omg he got stabbed by his own ally. Meanwhile, with Kaido, people try arguing that he actually lost because he had to fight plenty of guys before Luffy, and while this isn´t entirely wrong, those injuries from previous characters aren´t shown to be that significant, and Oda actually portrays it as Luffy being the man who beat him, and therefore got his Yonko title.
Now let´s just be honest. Can you ever imagine Oda writing a panel describing Blackbeard as the man who took down WB? It just wouldn´t happen, no one could even imagine that happening.
Next, I wanted to discuss their relationship with Roger. WB and Roger are stated to be equals and good friends. Everyone loves the iconic scene of WB and Roger drinking together.
Roger and Kaido aren´t shown to have a real connection at all. Instead of anything implying Roger ever respected Kaido or hung out with him. Kaido even sucks his dick for no real reason, randomly mentioning how he conquered the world with his large cock.
Now lets think about the larger context. Roger in his prime basically had zero rivals who were bad guys. He had Whitebeard, the most wholesome chungus pirate in the world, and Garp, luffys morally pure grandpa and genocide defender.(I do realize Shiki exists, but he honestly isn´t really shown in the manga much, and no one really hypes up his rivalry with Roger like they do WB and Garp). Can you imagine, if in another manga, like Naruto for example, it is shown that the first Hokages real rival wasn´t madara, but instead two chill guys from the Cloud and Sand village, and Madara is just another guy the First Hokage low diffed, while Madara was actually rivals with a random fodder ninja Sasuke beat, or a pre time skip villain?
And this goes much beyond these two characters. When Kaido thinks of the 5 strongest people hes ever known, he thinks of 4 explicit good guys,and one potentially evil guy
The main complaint people have with this ranking is that Garp(good guy),Mihawk(generally good guy coded given that he trained a SH, but this could change, I guess) and Rayleigh(good guy) weren´t featured, lol.
We can also think of Luffys two ¨rivals¨. Trafalgar Water D Law, Luffys fascist best friend
and Eustass Captain Kidd, the man who committed the crime of being a pirate in a manga about pirates. While both of these characters end up losing to a yonko after Wano, Law(Good guy) is able to have an okay match with Blackbeard(bad guy). It lasts a couple chapters, and his crewmate helps get him out of the battle. While Law does lose, he keeps his dignity. Now compare that fight too Kidd(bad guy)vs Shanks(good guy) where Shanks negs Kidd and his right hand man in 0.5 seconds by sneezing at him or something. I really do have to wonder if Oda just likes drawing bad guys eating shit and genuinely gets mad about the crimes his own characters have done. No matter what the reason is, I think it´s kind of an issue with the manga.
I said it in the other thread, but it would have been extremely easy for Oda to establish Kaido as having beaten an Admiral or a Yonko or someone to explain his fake rumor title, but Oda never did that. Because Kaido’s rumor is empty bullshit based on nothing.
And what’s even worse is Oda gave him Big Mom and Ace’s victim as rivals. The portrayal is pathetic. With Whitebeard, Oda gave him Roger and Garp as rivals. With Kaido….this.
Kaido is probably the biggest fraud in any manga I’ve ever read. I’ve never seen any other manga character falsely heralded as the strongest by the low IQ members of its fandom this hard like I have for Kaido.
What does this even mean lol? Do you think Oda has a specific grudge against Kaido or something?
To me, it seems much more likely that Oda simply enjoys wanking characters like Roger/WB and used Kaido to do so. Even though Kaido should be above Oden, he decided to make the weird flashback situation where Kaidos actions make zero sense and have Kaido cuck to Oden(the good guy).
Post automatically merged:
To me, it seems much more likely that Oda simply enjoys wanking characters like Roger/WB and used Kaido to do so. Even though Kaido should be above Oden, he decided to make the weird flashback situation where Kaidos actions make zero sense and have Kaido cuck to Oden(the good guy).
You are finally starting to understand. None of these shits were the strongest either lmfao. Not one of them was ever man enough to face an Admiral, not one of them ever actually beat another top tier.
At least with Whitebeard though Oda made him a rival of the chicken king and Larp, with Kaido Oda gave him Big Mom and Ace’s victim. Lol
At least with Whitebeard though Oda made him a rival of the chicken king and Larp, with Kaido Oda gave him Big Mom and Ace’s victim. Lol
~admirals doesn’t touch wano in centuries
~Admiral gb wouldn’t have came wano if kaido was there.
~Prime wb didn’t go to help oden
~Shanks only comes to wano after kaido and big mom gone
~Gabban says he can go to wano now that luffy beat kaido
~Bb attacks law to take the road map they got from wano but never goes to get it hi self.
All of these guys are considered strong independent top tiers smart tacticians yadda yadda
But kaido not leaving wano his own territory and taking over invading fighting anything that moves is somehow him being dehyped trash and fodder but the logic doesn’t apply to the ppl who avoid wano because of kaido?or just avoided wano for years before kaido?
WB is just him.
He’s also a good guy not necessarily a villain unlike the admirals who we seen attack ppl behind their backs turn wb own ppl against him to nerf him kill marines who wanted to leave a pointless war which is the same shit yall accuse kaido of doing.
WB was the hero and good guy of marineford
Kaido was supposed to be an unlikable villain not a relatable character,again WB was just him
~Admiral gb wouldn’t have came wano if kaido was there.
~Prime wb didn’t go to help oden
~Shanks only comes to wano after kaido and big mom gone
~Gabban says he can go to wano now that luffy beat kaido
~Bb attacks law to take the road map they got from wano but never goes to get it hi self.
All of these guys are considered strong independent top tiers smart tacticians yadda yadda
But kaido not leaving wano his own territory and taking over invading fighting anything that moves is somehow him being dehyped trash and fodder but the logic doesn’t apply to the ppl who avoid wano because of kaido?or just avoided wano for years before kaido?
WB is just him.
He’s also a good guy not necessarily a villain unlike the admirals who we seen attack ppl behind their backs turn wb own ppl against him to nerf him kill marines who wanted to leave a pointless war which is the same shit yall accuse kaido of doing.
WB was the hero and good guy of marineford
Kaido was supposed to be an unlikable villain not a relatable character,again WB was just him
So do you think when the likes of Crocodile at Marineford and stated he could’ve never lost to such a pathetic man, we should just disregard that because the narrator told us that Whitebeard was called the strongest man in the world? Lol
Whitebeard’s title was also inherently just a rumor, there is no “World’s Strongest” committee running around evaluating the power levels of these pirates with objectivity.
What facts did I deny? Which Admiral did Roger defeat? Which Pirate did he defeat? Which 1v1s did Roger win? Please educate me with all of the top tier opponents Roger factually defeated, I would love to hear about them for the first time.
Whitebeard’s title was also inherently just a rumor, there is no “World’s Strongest” committee running around evaluating the power levels of these pirates with objectivity.
What facts did I deny? Which Admiral did Roger defeat? Which Pirate did he defeat? Which 1v1s did Roger win? Please educate me with all of the top tier opponents Roger factually defeated, I would love to hear about them for the first time.