General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Uncle Van
- Start date
- Tags #c4ng2g carrot fans are still losers carrot haters are real losers seethe at the rabbit carrot is doing nothing because she doesn't matter carrot will never join the straw hats carrot's story never even began cry about carrot everyone else in the verse neg diffs the bunny imagine thinking stussy won't join its over furry bros keep the bunny on zou nobody else needs her let it go furry bros momo is breeding yamato no character is less relevant than carrot oden larper fans can't read stussy > carrot & yamato stussy supremacy who will be the next nakama of the week? yamato always had a better chance than carrot yamato story is over
1. I do expect Lucci to slowly change his allegiances, and become anti-WG, especially if the Gorosei end up hurting (or worse, killing) Kaku. It wouldn't make sense to run from the WG, be banished from CP9, and then returning as a CP0 agent if this new status doesn't lead to some personality changes;
2. But, I don't ever expect him to become a SH, nor even a member of the Fleet, which is, from my understanding, your position: you think Lucci is the next nakama. I have zero belief in that;
3. I don't consider avy-change bets to hold any meaning.
2. But, I don't ever expect him to become a SH, nor even a member of the Fleet, which is, from my understanding, your position: you think Lucci is the next nakama. I have zero belief in that;
3. I don't consider avy-change bets to hold any meaning.
Than we could bet about Lucci becoming the last crew member of the SHPs. And avi-changes have the meaning of being a wager. We could also write a little fiction of 1000 words and use this as a wager. I like writing and would love to read something that I enjoy. The winner could tell the other what exactly they need to write (or draw - fanart is also always nice.).
Luffy can just get stomped on by Robin as much as he wants without taking damage, lucky son of a-
Wall of analysis incoming! 
A brief legend:
XXX = Things I already explained. I have written them down here for you to know the background of the things, that this chapter picks up. You need those information, to know, where the plot strands go. If you know this already or do not want to read it, just skip it.
XXX = This is text regarding Zoro’s and Lucci’s fight
____________________________________________________________________________________________
The following are the things, I told you before and you have to consider, before I go into the chapter’s details:
Lucci wanted to be seen as the enemy by the SHPs for one important reason. To understand this, you actually have to look closer at the plan of the SHPs – it is flawed. Even if they are able to flee from the island, Kizaru would be able to bridge that distant easily with his DF-power. So, someone needs to stall the admiral and Lucci knows that. This is, why he chose to make himself seem like an enemy again – because he will sacrifice himself for the SHPs/Vegapunk to be able to flee (Oda announcing a fight between “that person and that person” in his festa letter). And there is one reason, why he needed to be seen as the enemy here:
In chapter 1107 Lucci said to Zoro that they are fools, who cannot cut off a limb to save the body, which means that the SHPs would never leave a comrade behind. If one of them would choose to stay behind and sacrifice himself for the others to be able to flee, Luffy would not allow it. The SHPs would only flee, if everyone was safely on board. Lucci knows this and therefore comments on it here – he needs everyone to think that he is evil.
If Luffy and the crew see Lucci as the enemy, they would not hesitate to leave him behind.
Lucci banked on this and the result we see here now: Lucci lets Zoro and Jinbe leave, without goin after them, so he could finally separate from Zoro (Like I said here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4669556 ). He can now focus on stalling Kizaru, who will be able to use his DF-power to come after the Sunny, the moment she leaves Egghead. And this is, when we will see a clash between Kizaru and Lucci.
Lucci’s motives to help Vegapunk and the SHPs: Lucci has ties with Vegapunk as it is easily seen in Shaka, who – if he had not the helmet on – seems to be the exact mirror of Lucci in behaviour, speech and thinking. They are related to each other.
As for the question as to why Lucci attacked the Stellar although he is on the same side: Stussy is a double agent and is still working for the WG (Oda just did not tell us. I have said that ages before: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4080456 ). So, with his actions, Lucci has only hurt the enemy, and no ally until now.) It was her, who let Akainu be called in chapter 1069, when she noticed that Luffy was on the island and could have intervened in their plan to kill Vegapunk. She would not have needed to do so (she would not have blown her cover) – yet, she did. And with it, she endangered her clone-father even more. You do not do this, if you are on someone’s side.
With the attack on the Stellar, Lucci’s goal was actually to get Stussy out of the way and not to hurt the Stellar. Because Lucci knew that Stussy needed to protect the Stellar. Because if the Stellar dies, Punk Record dies with him (It is questionable, who of the WG realises this.). And one of the most important things the WG wants to save is Punk Records. Punk records is the Stellar’s brain – if he dies, Punk Records is done, too. Lucci banked on this and the plan worked. Stussy needed to shield the Stellar and Lucci got her out of the way.
Stussy putting Kaku und Lucci to sleep can be seen as helping the Stellar. But in reality, she followed the explicit order of Akainu to the letter and did take care that CP0 (especially Lucci) would not interact with the SHPs but were to wait for the marine.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Zoro and Lucci - in depth analysis of the strangeness of their fight
Oda decided to find an unusual outcome to the fight, which for most of the Zoro and Lucci fans must have felt somewhat strange (I told you before that the outcome would be not really satisfying for you and utmost strange: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/lucci-is-pica-2-0.47814/post-4760035 ). It seemed like a stalling fight and nothing more. At the end Lucci is not even going down and this has to do with a very special reason.
The one reason for this is that the agent is on the side of the SHPs and had no interest in defeating Zoro. On the other hand, Zoro does not know this and thinks of him as an enemy again.
And if you look at the fight with this knowledge, the overall strangeness of it disappears completely:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Interesting counterparts:
The best part is that Lucci and Kizaru are more and more in the same situation:
Look at the admiral closely – He has not shown what he is capable of, as of yet. He only pushed against Luffy in those little skirmishes we saw in the 1090ish chapters.
But look also at Luffy: Because, Luffy did until now not really have a reason to fight him as a boss, like he does in any other arc with the end-bosses up until now. Whenever Luffy goes against a boss-opponent, Luffy’s reason to fight the person is always the reason he pushes himself to the limit. As of now, I have not seen him having such a reason. Oda still needs to deliver this and has as of yet only focused on other things, such as the Bonney and Kuma story, first.
If Kizaru and Luffy have not gone all out this arc, then what is missing is a reason for them to do so. And the reason has to do with Kizaru on the one side as the immoral counterpart to Lucci on the other side. So, I want to compare the two sides to give you a somewhat background to what I mean:
Kizaru:
Those two – Lucci and Kizaru – mirror each other perfectly. And one will remain on the bad side, while to other has now changed sides and does everything to save his family.
And whenever the fact is revealed that Lucci wanted his family safe and chose them, then Luffy will fight tooth and nail to get him back – because this will give him a reason to fight (Lucci will sacrafice himself for everyone's escape and get captured). And this is also when Luffy will fight Kizaru in earnest with all he has and will drill into the admiral that friends are more important than missions. Saving his family and friends is the reason, why Luffy gets stronger and why he trained hard, as mentioned here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/egghead-free-for-all-battle-royale.38205/post-4116651
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Aslo, have you noticed that as Lucci is reporting to Mars, what had transpired, he is with no word mentioning Stussy’s betrayl. He could have said something along the line of “by the way, Stussy has defected.”, but he is not. However, this would be important to mention, because if Mars were to encounter Stussy, he would need to know that he can’t trust her. But, Lucci knows that Stussy is still working for the WG. It would be unwise to tell the enemy everything one knows, when there is no need to. This is why Lucci keeps quiet about Stussy. Lucci would be a target anyway with his connection to Shaka, seeing as the innocent people, who had fled the island were targeted, too.
If Lucci had not reported where everyone is, he would have blown his cover. Earlier in chapter 1090, he had reported to the WG and mentioned several numbers (who was dead and who was injured and so on…). It would be dumb, if he suddenly were to underreport those numbers and Mars came upon those people and could put 1+1 toegether. Lucci still needs them to believe that he is on the WG’s side until the SHPs and Vegapunk are able to flee.
Then right after Lucci has reported to Mars, he makes one request: For Mars to not kill Kaku – his partner. Or should I say “brother/best friend”. Because this is, who Kaku is to Lucci – his little brother. Look at them: They always are seen together (During Water7, Enies Lobby, Dressrosa, Reverie, the Wano-call). Lucci even gets angry, when Stussy lets Kaku get hurt as the latter went up and got hurt by the Dome. Kaku also does often times not really reflect on Lucci’s actions, for example when Lucci went against their orders and destroyed the Labo-Stratum. He trusts Lucci too much to lead him.
What is also interesting in this chapter is how Oda is starting to depict Lucci here. Look at the panel when Lucci sees Mars for the first time. I see fear and shock in that face. These are totally new emotions displaying in his mimic. Here Oda is showing us new emotions of Lucci and that he has a caring side for the people he loves. He is starting to flesh out Lucci as a character and makes him more likeable and relatable for the audience.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
And again, I want to mention the following:
Please, this is now slowly becoming more obvious. If not in this chapter, than surely throughout the next few. The situation around Lucci is not, what Oda wants to make us believe – you know Oda! He loves to play with the expectations of his readers. And this currently is no different. Don’t let yourself get fooled!
@Mr. Reloaded @Devilbat @Bisoromi Bear @L o g i a @CoC: Color of Clowns
Yes, thank you. I think Kaku will stay with Vegapunk. Look at the beginning of Egghead, when we saw Kaku in awe of the tech, that greeted them. He seemed like the little kid in candy land, which was quite heartwarming to see.
A brief legend:
XXX = Things I already explained. I have written them down here for you to know the background of the things, that this chapter picks up. You need those information, to know, where the plot strands go. If you know this already or do not want to read it, just skip it.
XXX = This is text regarding Zoro’s and Lucci’s fight
____________________________________________________________________________________________
The following are the things, I told you before and you have to consider, before I go into the chapter’s details:
Lucci wanted to be seen as the enemy by the SHPs for one important reason. To understand this, you actually have to look closer at the plan of the SHPs – it is flawed. Even if they are able to flee from the island, Kizaru would be able to bridge that distant easily with his DF-power. So, someone needs to stall the admiral and Lucci knows that. This is, why he chose to make himself seem like an enemy again – because he will sacrifice himself for the SHPs/Vegapunk to be able to flee (Oda announcing a fight between “that person and that person” in his festa letter). And there is one reason, why he needed to be seen as the enemy here:
In chapter 1107 Lucci said to Zoro that they are fools, who cannot cut off a limb to save the body, which means that the SHPs would never leave a comrade behind. If one of them would choose to stay behind and sacrifice himself for the others to be able to flee, Luffy would not allow it. The SHPs would only flee, if everyone was safely on board. Lucci knows this and therefore comments on it here – he needs everyone to think that he is evil.
If Luffy and the crew see Lucci as the enemy, they would not hesitate to leave him behind.
Lucci banked on this and the result we see here now: Lucci lets Zoro and Jinbe leave, without goin after them, so he could finally separate from Zoro (Like I said here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4669556 ). He can now focus on stalling Kizaru, who will be able to use his DF-power to come after the Sunny, the moment she leaves Egghead. And this is, when we will see a clash between Kizaru and Lucci.
Lucci’s motives to help Vegapunk and the SHPs: Lucci has ties with Vegapunk as it is easily seen in Shaka, who – if he had not the helmet on – seems to be the exact mirror of Lucci in behaviour, speech and thinking. They are related to each other.
As for the question as to why Lucci attacked the Stellar although he is on the same side: Stussy is a double agent and is still working for the WG (Oda just did not tell us. I have said that ages before: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4080456 ). So, with his actions, Lucci has only hurt the enemy, and no ally until now.) It was her, who let Akainu be called in chapter 1069, when she noticed that Luffy was on the island and could have intervened in their plan to kill Vegapunk. She would not have needed to do so (she would not have blown her cover) – yet, she did. And with it, she endangered her clone-father even more. You do not do this, if you are on someone’s side.
With the attack on the Stellar, Lucci’s goal was actually to get Stussy out of the way and not to hurt the Stellar. Because Lucci knew that Stussy needed to protect the Stellar. Because if the Stellar dies, Punk Record dies with him (It is questionable, who of the WG realises this.). And one of the most important things the WG wants to save is Punk Records. Punk records is the Stellar’s brain – if he dies, Punk Records is done, too. Lucci banked on this and the plan worked. Stussy needed to shield the Stellar and Lucci got her out of the way.
Stussy putting Kaku und Lucci to sleep can be seen as helping the Stellar. But in reality, she followed the explicit order of Akainu to the letter and did take care that CP0 (especially Lucci) would not interact with the SHPs but were to wait for the marine.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Zoro and Lucci - in depth analysis of the strangeness of their fight
Oda decided to find an unusual outcome to the fight, which for most of the Zoro and Lucci fans must have felt somewhat strange (I told you before that the outcome would be not really satisfying for you and utmost strange: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/lucci-is-pica-2-0.47814/post-4760035 ). It seemed like a stalling fight and nothing more. At the end Lucci is not even going down and this has to do with a very special reason.
The one reason for this is that the agent is on the side of the SHPs and had no interest in defeating Zoro. On the other hand, Zoro does not know this and thinks of him as an enemy again.
And if you look at the fight with this knowledge, the overall strangeness of it disappears completely:
- It starts with Oda not even paying much attention to the fight in the first place: We had barely interesting choreography all the way through it and not even development, we usually see in the boss-fights of the SHPs. The fight does act as nothing more than a stalling for one of the fighters. And a fight is not even that interesting, if both parties are on the same side and have no reason to beat each other. Zoro only attacked because Lucci hurt Stussy – and Stussy is not on the side of the SHPs but still working for the WG – only no one has realised this, yet. (Detailed explanation down above.)
- Both parties were not even going all out: You see this for example in Zoro not even having his bandana on and changing from three swords to two within the fight. It indicates that Zoro has realised that Lucci is not going all out in the first place, so why should he answer it with unnecessary force?
- Then we have Zoro, who said in chapter 1107 that Lucci acts as if he decides on how long the battle between them will last. And indeed, Lucci decided upon this, because he was deciding, when he wanted to “lose”. The moment Jinbe arrived, Lucci stopped fighting Zoro and did not attack afterwards. The only reason why Lucci was fighting Zoro in the first place was because Zoro attacked him after his stunt with Stussy and Lucci did not try to abandon the fight between them afterwards, because it would result in leaving Zoro alone. And this brings me to the next point.
- Zoro would have surely gotten lost if Lucci had fled the fight or abandoned it. This would have resulted in the SHPs needing to search for him and losing time they do not have. So, Lucci kept Zoro in one place until Jinbe arrived. Only then did the agent stop fighting altogether, because there was no purpose anymore for him to do so. Zoro having a problem with directions is also the reason why Oda chose the samurai to fight Lucci and not Jinbe or even Sanji, who had more reason to go against Lucci, because he had stabbed Stussy (a woman). Lucci could not abandon the fight therefore.
- The moment you can clearly notice that Lucci is not interested in fighting Zoro is after Jinbe threw up that smoke-screen. Lucci is not in the least trying to follow them. In fact he is not even trying to stay up but is slowly kneeling down. He could have at least tried to chased them as intently as the reliable agent he was back in Enies Lobby, where he fought until his legs could no more. However, Lucci did not. Instead, he talked to Mars. And here you also notice that he still has energy left to talk and think and make a request. If he was really after the SHPs, he would have used this energy to chase them down – he did not do so.
- And than we have the strange line of Jinbe towards Lucci: He is apologizing to the agent for his attack. Why he does so, is not even clear. But even this small apology tells us that Jinbe still has some form of esteem for the agent and that the connection Lucci build with the SHPs during the time-skip is still resounding into the present. This alone is a hint that there is more to Lucci than everyone sees.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Interesting counterparts:
The best part is that Lucci and Kizaru are more and more in the same situation:
Look at the admiral closely – He has not shown what he is capable of, as of yet. He only pushed against Luffy in those little skirmishes we saw in the 1090ish chapters.
But look also at Luffy: Because, Luffy did until now not really have a reason to fight him as a boss, like he does in any other arc with the end-bosses up until now. Whenever Luffy goes against a boss-opponent, Luffy’s reason to fight the person is always the reason he pushes himself to the limit. As of now, I have not seen him having such a reason. Oda still needs to deliver this and has as of yet only focused on other things, such as the Bonney and Kuma story, first.
If Kizaru and Luffy have not gone all out this arc, then what is missing is a reason for them to do so. And the reason has to do with Kizaru on the one side as the immoral counterpart to Lucci on the other side. So, I want to compare the two sides to give you a somewhat background to what I mean:
Kizaru:
- Has a connection to Bonney, Kuma and Vegapunk through their shared past on Egghead
- Bonney, Kuma and Vegapunk were friends with Kizaru to that time
- Is shown to have second thought about hurting Bonney and Vegapunk, Sentomaru
- He does take the orders of the Gorosei serious and follows them even if he is really conflicted about this. So, instead of his friends – he chooses his mission
- He has a connection to Shaka as both are great strategist and have the same body language and share similar behavior
- Shaka and Lucci are brothers/twins
- Is shown to have second thoughts about his mission of killing Vegapunk (You do not see it by him openly declaring that he feels conflicted or something like this – like with Kizaru. The most we get is Lucci questioning his mission in chapter 1062. And his baseline (this is the usual character depiction, we know from Water 7 and Enies Lobby) deviates from how we did get to know him (not acting according to his mission and starting fights with an emperor). In chapter 1062 we see him questioning his mission of killing the most useful man in the world, with whom he has connections to.
- Is actievely now going against the WG to save his family and has separated himself from the SHPs/Vegapunk to stall Kizaru – he chose his family.
Those two – Lucci and Kizaru – mirror each other perfectly. And one will remain on the bad side, while to other has now changed sides and does everything to save his family.
And whenever the fact is revealed that Lucci wanted his family safe and chose them, then Luffy will fight tooth and nail to get him back – because this will give him a reason to fight (Lucci will sacrafice himself for everyone's escape and get captured). And this is also when Luffy will fight Kizaru in earnest with all he has and will drill into the admiral that friends are more important than missions. Saving his family and friends is the reason, why Luffy gets stronger and why he trained hard, as mentioned here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/egghead-free-for-all-battle-royale.38205/post-4116651
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Aslo, have you noticed that as Lucci is reporting to Mars, what had transpired, he is with no word mentioning Stussy’s betrayl. He could have said something along the line of “by the way, Stussy has defected.”, but he is not. However, this would be important to mention, because if Mars were to encounter Stussy, he would need to know that he can’t trust her. But, Lucci knows that Stussy is still working for the WG. It would be unwise to tell the enemy everything one knows, when there is no need to. This is why Lucci keeps quiet about Stussy. Lucci would be a target anyway with his connection to Shaka, seeing as the innocent people, who had fled the island were targeted, too.
If Lucci had not reported where everyone is, he would have blown his cover. Earlier in chapter 1090, he had reported to the WG and mentioned several numbers (who was dead and who was injured and so on…). It would be dumb, if he suddenly were to underreport those numbers and Mars came upon those people and could put 1+1 toegether. Lucci still needs them to believe that he is on the WG’s side until the SHPs and Vegapunk are able to flee.
Then right after Lucci has reported to Mars, he makes one request: For Mars to not kill Kaku – his partner. Or should I say “brother/best friend”. Because this is, who Kaku is to Lucci – his little brother. Look at them: They always are seen together (During Water7, Enies Lobby, Dressrosa, Reverie, the Wano-call). Lucci even gets angry, when Stussy lets Kaku get hurt as the latter went up and got hurt by the Dome. Kaku also does often times not really reflect on Lucci’s actions, for example when Lucci went against their orders and destroyed the Labo-Stratum. He trusts Lucci too much to lead him.
What is also interesting in this chapter is how Oda is starting to depict Lucci here. Look at the panel when Lucci sees Mars for the first time. I see fear and shock in that face. These are totally new emotions displaying in his mimic. Here Oda is showing us new emotions of Lucci and that he has a caring side for the people he loves. He is starting to flesh out Lucci as a character and makes him more likeable and relatable for the audience.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
And again, I want to mention the following:
- Lucci’s DF-name fits the remaining numbers (2,9) of Oda’s numerical play (Gorowase) with the DF-names within the SHP-crew – he is the last crew member.
- Character-wise, he is the exact opposite of Laffitte from the BBPs, which is the crew that mirrors the SHPs.
- Jinbe mentioned that the crew still needs someone, who calmly observes the battle in chapter 979 and this is exactly what Lucci does – he observes, analyses and has an overview over everything. Mars had “[…] nothing else to ask […]” of him, because of it – in this scene, Oda puts his finger on this to underline, what Lucci’s talent truely is: Calmly observing (- finding strategies and applying them to the situation – is the part of his position as the SHP’s new chief of staff/strategist)
Please, this is now slowly becoming more obvious. If not in this chapter, than surely throughout the next few. The situation around Lucci is not, what Oda wants to make us believe – you know Oda! He loves to play with the expectations of his readers. And this currently is no different. Don’t let yourself get fooled!
@Mr. Reloaded @Devilbat @Bisoromi Bear @L o g i a @CoC: Color of Clowns
Post automatically merged:
Yes, thank you. I think Kaku will stay with Vegapunk. Look at the beginning of Egghead, when we saw Kaku in awe of the tech, that greeted them. He seemed like the little kid in candy land, which was quite heartwarming to see.
Oda's made it clear this arc that the Straw Hats can handle Kizaru. Unless Mars can catch up with them using Coup de Burst, if the only enemy that follows them is Kizaru, they'll be fine, Luffy's been giving him the business ever since Luffy went Gear 5.
If Lucci didn't want the crew to worry about him, and to leave him behind, why wouldn't he go with them while pretending it's just to save Kaku, so he could actually try to escape? If Lucci actually wanted to work with the crew, he should know that stalling Zoro is only going to make it harder for them to escape. How is Lucci helping, when Nami had to send Jinbe to pick up Zoro? Outside of assumptions you have, is there any actual quote or action from the Manga that shows how Lucci fighting Zoro has helped the Straw Hats leave?
Ya'll need to stop overanalyzing the Zoro vs Lucci fight; Oda stalled Zoro for the sake of the plot. That's it. That's all that happened. I do think there's bad blood between Lucci and Zoro that goes beyond this, but, as far as the fight goes, it was delayed to introduce Saturn. That's it.
IMO Lucci just wants to save Kaku at this point, and his plotline will revolve around that until he ends up going to Wano for Pluton, the ship that kicked off his narrative.
Regarding Kizaru, I just can't see him getting a 1v1 against the Straw Hats now. He's had so many chances to fight Luffy, Luffy is heading towards the ship and running low on energy, Kizaru is still down.
I do believe that Lucci and Kizaru's plotlines are converging, though.
Lucci asked Mars to spare Kaku, his partner, who has failed in his mission and is now disposable in the eyes of the Gorosei, even for an insect. Cipher Pol Agents that fail have their lives forfeit.
Kizaru's greatest emotional connection in this arc hasn't been to Bonney, Kuma, or Vegapunk. It's Sentomaru.
Kizaru will turn once a Gorosei stomps on the "insect" Sentomaru.
Vegapunk was an old man who knew what he was doing.
Sentomaru is a kid Kizaru rescued from the woods.
When Garp saw Akainu kill Ace, he was about to throw hands, and throw his entire life away, after refusing to help Ace through all of Marineford.
Once Sentomaru gets attacked by the Gorosei, Kizaru will finally turn and fight them.
I also think Kaku is with Stussy amongst the 85 Cipher Pol agents in the bottom of the lab that Lucci told Mars about.
Wall of analysis incoming!
A brief legend:
XXX = Things I already explained. I have written them down here for you to know the background of the things, that this chapter picks up. You need those information, to know, where the plot strands go. If you know this already or do not want to read it, just skip it.
XXX = This is text regarding Zoro’s and Lucci’s fight
____________________________________________________________________________________________
The following are the things, I told you before and you have to consider, before I go into the chapter’s details:
Lucci wanted to be seen as the enemy by the SHPs for one important reason. To understand this, you actually have to look closer at the plan of the SHPs – it is flawed. Even if they are able to flee from the island, Kizaru would be able to bridge that distant easily with his DF-power. So, someone needs to stall the admiral and Lucci knows that. This is, why he chose to make himself seem like an enemy again – because he will sacrifice himself for the SHPs/Vegapunk to be able to flee (Oda announcing a fight between “that person and that person” in his festa letter). And there is one reason, why he needed to be seen as the enemy here:
In chapter 1107 Lucci said to Zoro that they are fools, who cannot cut off a limb to save the body, which means that the SHPs would never leave a comrade behind. If one of them would choose to stay behind and sacrifice himself for the others to be able to flee, Luffy would not allow it. The SHPs would only flee, if everyone was safely on board. Lucci knows this and therefore comments on it here – he needs everyone to think that he is evil.
If Luffy and the crew see Lucci as the enemy, they would not hesitate to leave him behind.
Lucci banked on this and the result we see here now: Lucci lets Zoro and Jinbe leave, without goin after them, so he could finally separate from Zoro (Like I said here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4669556 ). He can now focus on stalling Kizaru, who will be able to use his DF-power to come after the Sunny, the moment she leaves Egghead. And this is, when we will see a clash between Kizaru and Lucci.
Lucci’s motives to help Vegapunk and the SHPs: Lucci has ties with Vegapunk as it is easily seen in Shaka, who – if he had not the helmet on – seems to be the exact mirror of Lucci in behaviour, speech and thinking. They are related to each other.
As for the question as to why Lucci attacked the Stellar although he is on the same side: Stussy is a double agent and is still working for the WG (Oda just did not tell us. I have said that ages before: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4080456 ). So, with his actions, Lucci has only hurt the enemy, and no ally until now.) It was her, who let Akainu be called in chapter 1069, when she noticed that Luffy was on the island and could have intervened in their plan to kill Vegapunk. She would not have needed to do so (she would not have blown her cover) – yet, she did. And with it, she endangered her clone-father even more. You do not do this, if you are on someone’s side.
With the attack on the Stellar, Lucci’s goal was actually to get Stussy out of the way and not to hurt the Stellar. Because Lucci knew that Stussy needed to protect the Stellar. Because if the Stellar dies, Punk Record dies with him (It is questionable, who of the WG realises this.). And one of the most important things the WG wants to save is Punk Records. Punk records is the Stellar’s brain – if he dies, Punk Records is done, too. Lucci banked on this and the plan worked. Stussy needed to shield the Stellar and Lucci got her out of the way.
Stussy putting Kaku und Lucci to sleep can be seen as helping the Stellar. But in reality, she followed the explicit order of Akainu to the letter and did take care that CP0 (especially Lucci) would not interact with the SHPs but were to wait for the marine.
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Zoro and Lucci - in depth analysis of the strangeness of their fight
Oda decided to find an unusual outcome to the fight, which for most of the Zoro and Lucci fans must have felt somewhat strange (I told you before that the outcome would be not really satisfying for you and utmost strange: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/lucci-is-pica-2-0.47814/post-4760035 ). It seemed like a stalling fight and nothing more. At the end Lucci is not even going down and this has to do with a very special reason.
The one reason for this is that the agent is on the side of the SHPs and had no interest in defeating Zoro. On the other hand, Zoro does not know this and thinks of him as an enemy again.
And if you look at the fight with this knowledge, the overall strangeness of it disappears completely:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Interesting counterparts:
The best part is that Lucci and Kizaru are more and more in the same situation:
Look at the admiral closely – He has not shown what he is capable of, as of yet. He only pushed against Luffy in those little skirmishes we saw in the 1090ish chapters.
But look also at Luffy: Because, Luffy did until now not really have a reason to fight him as a boss, like he does in any other arc with the end-bosses up until now. Whenever Luffy goes against a boss-opponent, Luffy’s reason to fight the person is always the reason he pushes himself to the limit. As of now, I have not seen him having such a reason. Oda still needs to deliver this and has as of yet only focused on other things, such as the Bonney and Kuma story, first.
If Kizaru and Luffy have not gone all out this arc, then what is missing is a reason for them to do so. And the reason has to do with Kizaru on the one side as the immoral counterpart to Lucci on the other side. So, I want to compare the two sides to give you a somewhat background to what I mean:
Kizaru:
Those two – Lucci and Kizaru – mirror each other perfectly. And one will remain on the bad side, while to other has now changed sides and does everything to save his family.
And whenever the fact is revealed that Lucci wanted his family safe and chose them, then Luffy will fight tooth and nail to get him back – because this will give him a reason to fight (Lucci will sacrafice himself for everyone's escape and get captured). And this is also when Luffy will fight Kizaru in earnest with all he has and will drill into the admiral that friends are more important than missions. Saving his family and friends is the reason, why Luffy gets stronger and why he trained hard, as mentioned here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/egghead-free-for-all-battle-royale.38205/post-4116651
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Aslo, have you noticed that as Lucci is reporting to Mars, what had transpired, he is with no word mentioning Stussy’s betrayl. He could have said something along the line of “by the way, Stussy has defected.”, but he is not. However, this would be important to mention, because if Mars were to encounter Stussy, he would need to know that he can’t trust her. But, Lucci knows that Stussy is still working for the WG. It would be unwise to tell the enemy everything one knows, when there is no need to. This is why Lucci keeps quiet about Stussy. Lucci would be a target anyway with his connection to Shaka, seeing as the innocent people, who had fled the island were targeted, too.
If Lucci had not reported where everyone is, he would have blown his cover. Earlier in chapter 1090, he had reported to the WG and mentioned several numbers (who was dead and who was injured and so on…). It would be dumb, if he suddenly were to underreport those numbers and Mars came upon those people and could put 1+1 toegether. Lucci still needs them to believe that he is on the WG’s side until the SHPs and Vegapunk are able to flee.
Then right after Lucci has reported to Mars, he makes one request: For Mars to not kill Kaku – his partner. Or should I say “brother/best friend”. Because this is, who Kaku is to Lucci – his little brother. Look at them: They always are seen together (During Water7, Enies Lobby, Dressrosa, Reverie, the Wano-call). Lucci even gets angry, when Stussy lets Kaku get hurt as the latter went up and got hurt by the Dome. Kaku also does often times not really reflect on Lucci’s actions, for example when Lucci went against their orders and destroyed the Labo-Stratum. He trusts Lucci too much to lead him.
What is also interesting in this chapter is how Oda is starting to depict Lucci here. Look at the panel when Lucci sees Mars for the first time. I see fear and shock in that face. These are totally new emotions displaying in his mimic. Here Oda is showing us new emotions of Lucci and that he has a caring side for the people he loves. He is starting to flesh out Lucci as a character and makes him more likeable and relatable for the audience.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
And again, I want to mention the following:
Please, this is now slowly becoming more obvious. If not in this chapter, than surely throughout the next few. The situation around Lucci is not, what Oda wants to make us believe – you know Oda! He loves to play with the expectations of his readers. And this currently is no different. Don’t let yourself get fooled!
@Mr. Reloaded @Devilbat @Bisoromi Bear @L o g i a @CoC: Color of Clowns
Yes, thank you. I think Kaku will stay with Vegapunk. Look at the beginning of Egghead, when we saw Kaku in awe of the tech, that greeted them. He seemed like the little kid in candy land, which was quite heartwarming to see.
A brief legend:
XXX = Things I already explained. I have written them down here for you to know the background of the things, that this chapter picks up. You need those information, to know, where the plot strands go. If you know this already or do not want to read it, just skip it.
XXX = This is text regarding Zoro’s and Lucci’s fight
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The following are the things, I told you before and you have to consider, before I go into the chapter’s details:
Lucci wanted to be seen as the enemy by the SHPs for one important reason. To understand this, you actually have to look closer at the plan of the SHPs – it is flawed. Even if they are able to flee from the island, Kizaru would be able to bridge that distant easily with his DF-power. So, someone needs to stall the admiral and Lucci knows that. This is, why he chose to make himself seem like an enemy again – because he will sacrifice himself for the SHPs/Vegapunk to be able to flee (Oda announcing a fight between “that person and that person” in his festa letter). And there is one reason, why he needed to be seen as the enemy here:
In chapter 1107 Lucci said to Zoro that they are fools, who cannot cut off a limb to save the body, which means that the SHPs would never leave a comrade behind. If one of them would choose to stay behind and sacrifice himself for the others to be able to flee, Luffy would not allow it. The SHPs would only flee, if everyone was safely on board. Lucci knows this and therefore comments on it here – he needs everyone to think that he is evil.
If Luffy and the crew see Lucci as the enemy, they would not hesitate to leave him behind.
Lucci banked on this and the result we see here now: Lucci lets Zoro and Jinbe leave, without goin after them, so he could finally separate from Zoro (Like I said here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4669556 ). He can now focus on stalling Kizaru, who will be able to use his DF-power to come after the Sunny, the moment she leaves Egghead. And this is, when we will see a clash between Kizaru and Lucci.
Lucci’s motives to help Vegapunk and the SHPs: Lucci has ties with Vegapunk as it is easily seen in Shaka, who – if he had not the helmet on – seems to be the exact mirror of Lucci in behaviour, speech and thinking. They are related to each other.
As for the question as to why Lucci attacked the Stellar although he is on the same side: Stussy is a double agent and is still working for the WG (Oda just did not tell us. I have said that ages before: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...embers-and-the-grand-fleet.31999/post-4080456 ). So, with his actions, Lucci has only hurt the enemy, and no ally until now.) It was her, who let Akainu be called in chapter 1069, when she noticed that Luffy was on the island and could have intervened in their plan to kill Vegapunk. She would not have needed to do so (she would not have blown her cover) – yet, she did. And with it, she endangered her clone-father even more. You do not do this, if you are on someone’s side.
With the attack on the Stellar, Lucci’s goal was actually to get Stussy out of the way and not to hurt the Stellar. Because Lucci knew that Stussy needed to protect the Stellar. Because if the Stellar dies, Punk Record dies with him (It is questionable, who of the WG realises this.). And one of the most important things the WG wants to save is Punk Records. Punk records is the Stellar’s brain – if he dies, Punk Records is done, too. Lucci banked on this and the plan worked. Stussy needed to shield the Stellar and Lucci got her out of the way.
Stussy putting Kaku und Lucci to sleep can be seen as helping the Stellar. But in reality, she followed the explicit order of Akainu to the letter and did take care that CP0 (especially Lucci) would not interact with the SHPs but were to wait for the marine.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Zoro and Lucci - in depth analysis of the strangeness of their fight
Oda decided to find an unusual outcome to the fight, which for most of the Zoro and Lucci fans must have felt somewhat strange (I told you before that the outcome would be not really satisfying for you and utmost strange: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/lucci-is-pica-2-0.47814/post-4760035 ). It seemed like a stalling fight and nothing more. At the end Lucci is not even going down and this has to do with a very special reason.
The one reason for this is that the agent is on the side of the SHPs and had no interest in defeating Zoro. On the other hand, Zoro does not know this and thinks of him as an enemy again.
And if you look at the fight with this knowledge, the overall strangeness of it disappears completely:
- It starts with Oda not even paying much attention to the fight in the first place: We had barely interesting choreography all the way through it and not even development, we usually see in the boss-fights of the SHPs. The fight does act as nothing more than a stalling for one of the fighters. And a fight is not even that interesting, if both parties are on the same side and have no reason to beat each other. Zoro only attacked because Lucci hurt Stussy – and Stussy is not on the side of the SHPs but still working for the WG – only no one has realised this, yet. (Detailed explanation down above.)
- Both parties were not even going all out: You see this for example in Zoro not even having his bandana on and changing from three swords to two within the fight. It indicates that Zoro has realised that Lucci is not going all out in the first place, so why should he answer it with unnecessary force?
- Then we have Zoro, who said in chapter 1107 that Lucci acts as if he decides on how long the battle between them will last. And indeed, Lucci decided upon this, because he was deciding, when he wanted to “lose”. The moment Jinbe arrived, Lucci stopped fighting Zoro and did not attack afterwards. The only reason why Lucci was fighting Zoro in the first place was because Zoro attacked him after his stunt with Stussy and Lucci did not try to abandon the fight between them afterwards, because it would result in leaving Zoro alone. And this brings me to the next point.
- Zoro would have surely gotten lost if Lucci had fled the fight or abandoned it. This would have resulted in the SHPs needing to search for him and losing time they do not have. So, Lucci kept Zoro in one place until Jinbe arrived. Only then did the agent stop fighting altogether, because there was no purpose anymore for him to do so. Zoro having a problem with directions is also the reason why Oda chose the samurai to fight Lucci and not Jinbe or even Sanji, who had more reason to go against Lucci, because he had stabbed Stussy (a woman). Lucci could not abandon the fight therefore.
- The moment you can clearly notice that Lucci is not interested in fighting Zoro is after Jinbe threw up that smoke-screen. Lucci is not in the least trying to follow them. In fact he is not even trying to stay up but is slowly kneeling down. He could have at least tried to chased them as intently as the reliable agent he was back in Enies Lobby, where he fought until his legs could no more. However, Lucci did not. Instead, he talked to Mars. And here you also notice that he still has energy left to talk and think and make a request. If he was really after the SHPs, he would have used this energy to chase them down – he did not do so.
- And than we have the strange line of Jinbe towards Lucci: He is apologizing to the agent for his attack. Why he does so, is not even clear. But even this small apology tells us that Jinbe still has some form of esteem for the agent and that the connection Lucci build with the SHPs during the time-skip is still resounding into the present. This alone is a hint that there is more to Lucci than everyone sees.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Interesting counterparts:
The best part is that Lucci and Kizaru are more and more in the same situation:
Look at the admiral closely – He has not shown what he is capable of, as of yet. He only pushed against Luffy in those little skirmishes we saw in the 1090ish chapters.
But look also at Luffy: Because, Luffy did until now not really have a reason to fight him as a boss, like he does in any other arc with the end-bosses up until now. Whenever Luffy goes against a boss-opponent, Luffy’s reason to fight the person is always the reason he pushes himself to the limit. As of now, I have not seen him having such a reason. Oda still needs to deliver this and has as of yet only focused on other things, such as the Bonney and Kuma story, first.
If Kizaru and Luffy have not gone all out this arc, then what is missing is a reason for them to do so. And the reason has to do with Kizaru on the one side as the immoral counterpart to Lucci on the other side. So, I want to compare the two sides to give you a somewhat background to what I mean:
Kizaru:
- Has a connection to Bonney, Kuma and Vegapunk through their shared past on Egghead
- Bonney, Kuma and Vegapunk were friends with Kizaru to that time
- Is shown to have second thought about hurting Bonney and Vegapunk, Sentomaru
- He does take the orders of the Gorosei serious and follows them even if he is really conflicted about this. So, instead of his friends – he chooses his mission
- He has a connection to Shaka as both are great strategist and have the same body language and share similar behavior
- Shaka and Lucci are brothers/twins
- Is shown to have second thoughts about his mission of killing Vegapunk (You do not see it by him openly declaring that he feels conflicted or something like this – like with Kizaru. The most we get is Lucci questioning his mission in chapter 1062. And his baseline (this is the usual character depiction, we know from Water 7 and Enies Lobby) deviates from how we did get to know him (not acting according to his mission and starting fights with an emperor). In chapter 1062 we see him questioning his mission of killing the most useful man in the world, with whom he has connections to.
- Is actievely now going against the WG to save his family and has separated himself from the SHPs/Vegapunk to stall Kizaru – he chose his family.
Those two – Lucci and Kizaru – mirror each other perfectly. And one will remain on the bad side, while to other has now changed sides and does everything to save his family.
And whenever the fact is revealed that Lucci wanted his family safe and chose them, then Luffy will fight tooth and nail to get him back – because this will give him a reason to fight (Lucci will sacrafice himself for everyone's escape and get captured). And this is also when Luffy will fight Kizaru in earnest with all he has and will drill into the admiral that friends are more important than missions. Saving his family and friends is the reason, why Luffy gets stronger and why he trained hard, as mentioned here: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/egghead-free-for-all-battle-royale.38205/post-4116651
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Aslo, have you noticed that as Lucci is reporting to Mars, what had transpired, he is with no word mentioning Stussy’s betrayl. He could have said something along the line of “by the way, Stussy has defected.”, but he is not. However, this would be important to mention, because if Mars were to encounter Stussy, he would need to know that he can’t trust her. But, Lucci knows that Stussy is still working for the WG. It would be unwise to tell the enemy everything one knows, when there is no need to. This is why Lucci keeps quiet about Stussy. Lucci would be a target anyway with his connection to Shaka, seeing as the innocent people, who had fled the island were targeted, too.
If Lucci had not reported where everyone is, he would have blown his cover. Earlier in chapter 1090, he had reported to the WG and mentioned several numbers (who was dead and who was injured and so on…). It would be dumb, if he suddenly were to underreport those numbers and Mars came upon those people and could put 1+1 toegether. Lucci still needs them to believe that he is on the WG’s side until the SHPs and Vegapunk are able to flee.
Then right after Lucci has reported to Mars, he makes one request: For Mars to not kill Kaku – his partner. Or should I say “brother/best friend”. Because this is, who Kaku is to Lucci – his little brother. Look at them: They always are seen together (During Water7, Enies Lobby, Dressrosa, Reverie, the Wano-call). Lucci even gets angry, when Stussy lets Kaku get hurt as the latter went up and got hurt by the Dome. Kaku also does often times not really reflect on Lucci’s actions, for example when Lucci went against their orders and destroyed the Labo-Stratum. He trusts Lucci too much to lead him.
What is also interesting in this chapter is how Oda is starting to depict Lucci here. Look at the panel when Lucci sees Mars for the first time. I see fear and shock in that face. These are totally new emotions displaying in his mimic. Here Oda is showing us new emotions of Lucci and that he has a caring side for the people he loves. He is starting to flesh out Lucci as a character and makes him more likeable and relatable for the audience.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
And again, I want to mention the following:
- Lucci’s DF-name fits the remaining numbers (2,9) of Oda’s numerical play (Gorowase) with the DF-names within the SHP-crew – he is the last crew member.
- Character-wise, he is the exact opposite of Laffitte from the BBPs, which is the crew that mirrors the SHPs.
- Jinbe mentioned that the crew still needs someone, who calmly observes the battle in chapter 979 and this is exactly what Lucci does – he observes, analyses and has an overview over everything. Mars had “[…] nothing else to ask […]” of him, because of it – in this scene, Oda puts his finger on this to underline, what Lucci’s talent truely is: Calmly observing (- finding strategies and applying them to the situation – is the part of his position as the SHP’s new chief of staff/strategist)
Please, this is now slowly becoming more obvious. If not in this chapter, than surely throughout the next few. The situation around Lucci is not, what Oda wants to make us believe – you know Oda! He loves to play with the expectations of his readers. And this currently is no different. Don’t let yourself get fooled!
@Mr. Reloaded @Devilbat @Bisoromi Bear @L o g i a @CoC: Color of Clowns
Post automatically merged:
Yes, thank you. I think Kaku will stay with Vegapunk. Look at the beginning of Egghead, when we saw Kaku in awe of the tech, that greeted them. He seemed like the little kid in candy land, which was quite heartwarming to see.
Luffy can just get stomped on by Robin as much as he wants without taking damage, lucky son of a-
My issue with your analysis is that it involves assumptions I can't really justify within Oda's writing.
Oda's made it clear this arc that the Straw Hats can handle Kizaru. Unless Mars can catch up with them using Coup de Burst, if the only enemy that follows them is Kizaru, they'll be fine, Luffy's been giving him the business ever since Luffy went Gear 5.
If Lucci didn't want the crew to worry about him, and to leave him behind, why wouldn't he go with them while pretending it's just to save Kaku, so he could actually try to escape? If Lucci actually wanted to work with the crew, he should know that stalling Zoro is only going to make it harder for them to escape. How is Lucci helping, when Nami had to send Jinbe to pick up Zoro? Outside of assumptions you have, is there any actual quote or action from the Manga that shows how Lucci fighting Zoro has helped the Straw Hats leave?
Ya'll need to stop overanalyzing the Zoro vs Lucci fight; Oda stalled Zoro for the sake of the plot. That's it. That's all that happened. I do think there's bad blood between Lucci and Zoro that goes beyond this, but, as far as the fight goes, it was delayed to introduce Saturn. That's it.
IMO Lucci just wants to save Kaku at this point, and his plotline will revolve around that until he ends up going to Wano for Pluton, the ship that kicked off his narrative.
Regarding Kizaru, I just can't see him getting a 1v1 against the Straw Hats now. He's had so many chances to fight Luffy, Luffy is heading towards the ship and running low on energy, Kizaru is still down.
I do believe that Lucci and Kizaru's plotlines are converging, though.
Lucci asked Mars to spare Kaku, his partner, who has failed in his mission and is now disposable in the eyes of the Gorosei, even for an insect. Cipher Pol Agents that fail have their lives forfeit.
Kizaru's greatest emotional connection in this arc hasn't been to Bonney, Kuma, or Vegapunk. It's Sentomaru.
Kizaru will turn once a Gorosei stomps on the "insect" Sentomaru.
Vegapunk was an old man who knew what he was doing.
Sentomaru is a kid Kizaru rescued from the woods.
When Garp saw Akainu kill Ace, he was about to throw hands, and throw his entire life away, after refusing to help Ace through all of Marineford.
Once Sentomaru gets attacked by the Gorosei, Kizaru will finally turn and fight them.
I also think Kaku is with Stussy amongst the 85 Cipher Pol agents in the bottom of the lab that Lucci told Mars about.
I do not think that Kizaru has been gone all out and really showed us what he can do with his DF-power. I think we have to wait for the next chapters to be dropped.
Nah, I'm good.
Sure. I bet you Lucci will never become a SH or Grand Fleet member. He could (more likely will) help the SHs against Imu's evil version of the WG, but Lucci will never become one of the "good guys" through and through.
If Lucci becomes a nakama, I can sport his avy for 1 month.
If he doesn't, I need nothing from you, because, like I said, I view the avy-change wagers as entirely meaningless.
Sure. I bet you Lucci will never become a SH or Grand Fleet member. He could (more likely will) help the SHs against Imu's evil version of the WG, but Lucci will never become one of the "good guys" through and through.
If Lucci becomes a nakama, I can sport his avy for 1 month.
If he doesn't, I need nothing from you, because, like I said, I view the avy-change wagers as entirely meaningless.
But what does Lucci becoming their enemy really accomplish, when they were just trying to leave?
As far as I can see, the best way Lucci could have helped the crew escape was... just, help them escape.
I don't think Lucci could BEAT Kizaru, but he's fast and strong enough to stall him.
Lucci didn't know Saturn would be here, so, if he thought the strongest force was Kizaru, and wanted the Straw Hats to escape...
I love your theories, but I feel like you spend more time justifying things about them that kind of don't make sense, when to me a good theory is one you're trying to poke holes in. Most of my theories that were wrong were either me writing fanfiction or me having a giant agend-block that kept my from viewing things neutrally (this is almost always Wano Act 4/Pluton for me, lol).
When you want something to happen in the story, I tend to ignore or attack anything that makes that agenda seem wrong.
I was invested in Zombie Kaido for like two years before Eten told me how stupid it was and I was just like "fuck she's totally right, this theory just doesn't work."
If it's not Sentomaru based, I have no idea what Kizaru is going to do here. At the least, man needs some rest.
As far as I can see, the best way Lucci could have helped the crew escape was... just, help them escape.
I don't think Lucci could BEAT Kizaru, but he's fast and strong enough to stall him.
Lucci didn't know Saturn would be here, so, if he thought the strongest force was Kizaru, and wanted the Straw Hats to escape...
I love your theories, but I feel like you spend more time justifying things about them that kind of don't make sense, when to me a good theory is one you're trying to poke holes in. Most of my theories that were wrong were either me writing fanfiction or me having a giant agend-block that kept my from viewing things neutrally (this is almost always Wano Act 4/Pluton for me, lol).
When you want something to happen in the story, I tend to ignore or attack anything that makes that agenda seem wrong.
I was invested in Zombie Kaido for like two years before Eten told me how stupid it was and I was just like "fuck she's totally right, this theory just doesn't work."
If it's not Sentomaru based, I have no idea what Kizaru is going to do here. At the least, man needs some rest.
@Borasey79 : Is there maybe a headcanon-scene from One Piece, you would like to read as a fanfiction? I love writing and would love to write it down, in case you win.
Lucci needs to stall Kizaru from reaching the Sunny(SHPs) when they flee. He knows that Kizaru can bridge the distance between Egghead and the Sunny quite easily, even if the Sunny is already kms away. He does not need to beat Kizaru - he will loose. But he needs to stall him. This will lead to the WG wanting to either kill or imprison him. So, Lucci would sacrafice himself for the flight
Luffy on the other hand would never allow any of his friends to stay back and sacrafice themsleves for him. If Lucci would propose any of this openly to the crew, Luffy would exterminate even the slightest talk about it - he is not leaving anyone behind.
Yes, I can sometimes also be kind of a block-head. 😂 But Zombie Kaido is a great idea. At least someone could draw him for us. 😊
Luffy on the other hand would never allow any of his friends to stay back and sacrafice themsleves for him. If Lucci would propose any of this openly to the crew, Luffy would exterminate even the slightest talk about it - he is not leaving anyone behind.
Yes, I can sometimes also be kind of a block-head. 😂 But Zombie Kaido is a great idea. At least someone could draw him for us. 😊