General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Staticshadic]

Wasn't luffy telling momo there was nothing to be afraid of after bite kaido 😕, tell momo to wise up and not to be a coward 😭😂 are you reading the story where luffy gives momo a pep talk and courage to do stuff. Yamato isn't coaching Momo is just telling him not to give up and stuff like that coaching someone is a bit far fetched, telling momo to be a man isn't coaching him

your not exactly wrong Luffy, Sanji, Zoro, Kiku, Kinemon, Ashura Doji and Raizou all did same thing by helping momo
Sanji-when comes him don't waste food
Zoro and Kiku- talking about swordsmanship
Kinemon-being father figure in his life
Luffy, Yamato, and Ashura doiji- being the voice reason trying man him up
Raizou- him and rest nine scarbeds will guide momo.

http://imgur.com/a/7VVB7dM

 

[Monkey D Al]

coming.

Robin, like every strawhat DID refused to join Luffy, but not when she joined at first, when she LEFT in water Seven. her real character arc start there, not in Alabasta ;)

And Jinbe AND Brook refused also.

You have to understand that I'm not taking about a proposition to join, I'm talking about the call to adventure which is something very specific.

In that sence EACH strawhat refused the call to adventure at one time or another. Some left and came back because of it.. some even had two arc and refused twice ! (Sanji for example)

Yamato has none of that during her actual character arc. This means that it's unlikely for Yamato to developp this refusal in the future when it's a narrative NECESSITY.

Well using this logic Yamato can join and then later reject the "call of adventure“ so your point is rendered mute.

 

[Logiko]

Wasn't luffy telling momo there was nothing to be afraid after bit kaido 😕, tell momo to wise up and not to be a coward

Hm.. You are not wrong..

I guess Luffy was also training Momo a little. Thing is.. Yamato will be the most well placed to help him fullfil his potential when Luffy will be gone.

Coming back to your litany, I believe it is impossible to determine whether someone will join as Nakama based on their reaction to Kaido's defeat and it is because everyone will react to it. So even if Carrot is shown reacting or not wont make a difference.

It is possible. (this is the writer talking) , you CAN predict the future of Carrot with that specific type of panel, I have explained the reason why in detail here:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509923343121723399

(Note that everyone won't react the way Carrot will, they will be shocked, but what I'm waiting is in fact something more from Carrot, a flashback, in fact I'm waiting for carrot AND the Mink to have that specific realization as a reaction for the mink will be the validation that there is something waiting for Carrot, in short this would be a setup)

In addition, I must say Carrot is not a narrative aberration but a classic example of support character and her relevance to the plot so far proves that.

It is. You are right that in a random context, Carrot is a simple support character. But this is not a normal context, this is the context of One Piece with an author with specific pattern with specific character and specific storylines with very few exceptions of crosswiering. In that context ALONE, Carrot is a factual narrative abnormality (but there are in fact other specificity that makes her an abnormality in term of narration in fact, you can take for example the fact that Carrot in introduced with no evident narrative purpose, in other words for no narrative good reasons as she is not a narrative necessity)

Go read my post again, you missed the point.

I believe every woke person should get themself tested for psychological problems

Look at that psychophobia...

That's precisely the reason why I think those kind of unmoderated forum are systematically problematic for the fanbase's health.

Where are the feminist here ? Where are the nice people ? All I see is a bunch of right winger confusionist thinking that they are acting like normal men when they are just toxic men acting like they own the place.

Did you still not understand that One Piece IS what you call "woke" ?

 

[Ballel]

Where are the feminist here ? Where are the nice people ? All I see is a bunch of right winger confusionist thinking that they are acting like normal men when they are just toxic men acting like they own the place.

Did you still not understand that One Piece IS what you call "woke" ?

You are not wrong in that there are some delusional, self-righteous and toxic misanthropes among the user base.
But what does this have to do with the nakama discussion?
The term "misogynist" could as well be used for anyone who dislikes Yamato.

To me it feels like you have an agenda and let this overshadow your understanding of the story.

 

[Monkey D Al]

@JoSeungHun7335 , the Evil has returned, and has brought a disciple

You mean a second account 😂

 

[Ballel]

You mean a second account 😂

Curious whose alt that is

 

[Logiko]

Well using this logic Yamato can join and then later reject the "call of adventure“ so your point is rendered mute.

It's still possible until the end, the thing is.. it wouldn't make any sence with her current development. Read again that post:

To help you understand the difference between Yamato and Carrot look at how those two sentence could add conflict and predict the future of those two characters:

Yamato (to Momo): "I'm not needed on Wano, I'm the son of the monster, the Samourai will hate me"

Carrot (to Wanda): "I'm not needed on the Sunny, I'm too weak.. I'm useless"

What I just did is creating "subversion dialogues". When you read those sentances (taking the context of the story into account) what can you predict ?

---

Now.. taking that context into account again.. What sentence would be the most wrong.. and therefore the most "powerfull" in term of conflict as a "emotional inducer" ? (in other word, to what sentence could Luffy reply "SHUT UP, LET'S GO!" ?


To Yamato (to Luffy): I can't join you Luffy, Momo still needs me, rebuilding Wano will be an adventure in itself !

Or

Carrot (to Luffy): I can't join you Luffy, I'm useless on the sea, my place is on Zou not on the sea !

This is the power of subversion dialogue. With a simple sentence, you can predict (if you are clever enough) how the future of a future of a character will be:


If Yamato said "I can't join you Luffy, Momo still needs me, rebuilding Wano will be an adventure in itself !"

She would be RIGHT, not wrong! This is what happened with Vivi. Because someone needs her, it would be narratively logical for her to stay.

The same happens if you check the subversion dialogue concerning Wano and Momo: "I'm not needed on Wano, I'm the son of the monster, the Samourai will hate me"


In both instances, the conflict is REAL. It would be legitimately true to the character to be afraid of that, but she would be WRONG to be (because One Piece has a positive messagee on that subject and the people would accept her regardless).

So in BOTH cases here, the dialogues feels "TRUE" to the character because they are in sync with the context and the characterisation.

No let's see the opposite and let's see if this has the same impact:

"I can't stay with you Momo, Luffy needs me, I must go on an adventure on my own!"
"I'm not needed on the Sunny, the strawhats will hate me as I'm the son of a monster!"

Do you FEEL the difference in term of impact? The two instance are not the same. Here those two sentences feels a lot LESS TRUE to the character of Yamato. Why ?

Because in the first sentance, it feels like an egoistical choice when in the second.. it's baseless, there is no reason for Yamato to be afraid that the strawhat would not accept her...

---

In other words.. there is a legitimate MENTAL reason for Yamato to refuse the call of adventure of Wano but there are NONE to refuse the call of adventure for the strawhats. That's why Yamato wouldn't refuse the call to adventure for the Sunny..

In the other hand it's the complete opposite for Carrot : There is no factual reason for Carrot to refuse the call for adventure to go back to Zou but there are plently of reasons for her to refuse to go back on the Sunny again.

Again: The refusal of the call for adventure means that the protagonist is BOUND to take a step into that adventure. It's pure narrative logic.

 

[Ravagerblade]

It's still possible until the end, the thing is.. it wouldn't make any sence with her current development. Read again that post:






This is the power of subversion dialogue. With a simple sentence, you can predict (if you are clever enough) how the future of a future of a character will be:


If Yamato said "I can't join you Luffy, Momo still needs me, rebuilding Wano will be an adventure in itself !"

She would be RIGHT, not wrong! This is what happened with Vivi. Because someone needs her, it would be narratively logical for her to stay.

The same happens if you check the subversion dialogue concerning Wano and Momo: "I'm not needed on Wano, I'm the son of the monster, the Samourai will hate me"


In both instances, the conflict is REAL. It would be legitimately true to the character to be afraid of that, but she would be WRONG to be (because One Piece has a positive messagee on that subject and the people would accept her regardless).

So in BOTH cases here, the dialogues feels "TRUE" to the character because they are in sync with the context and the characterisation.

No let's see the opposite and let's see if this has the same impact:

"I can't stay with you Momo, Luffy needs me, I must go on an adventure on my own!"
"I'm not needed on the Sunny, the strawhats will hate me as I'm the son of a monster!"

Do you FEEL the difference in term of impact? The two instance are not the same. Here those two sentences feels a lot LESS TRUE to the character of Yamato. Why ?

Because in the first sentance, it feels like an egoistical choice when in the second.. it's baseless, there is no reason for Yamato to be afraid that the strawhat would not accept her...

---

In other words.. there is a legitimate MENTAL reason for Yamato to refuse the call of adventure of Wano but there are NONE to refuse the call of adventure for the strawhats. That's why Yamato wouldn't refuse the call to adventure for the Sunny..

In the other hand it's the complete opposite for Carrot : There is no factual reason for Carrot to refuse the call for adventure to go back to Zou but there are plently of reasons for her to refuse to go back on the Sunny again.

Again: The refusal of the call for adventure means that the protagonist is BOUND to take a step into that adventure. It's pure narrative logic.

And you are basing this all on your emotions and not any logical facts.

 

[Peenix]

Carrot existed as a necessity.

- She filled a lot of action, fanservice and comic relief supporting roles in Whole Cake Island to fill the vacuum of missing straw hats.
- She was used to showcase the Sulong transformation, and to keep the minks relevant throughout WCI so the audience would give a shit about them in the raid.
- Pedro was specifically designed to die so if his will was going to be passed on to Neko and the rest of the tribe a second mink was required for an emotional throughline.
- The arc was Alice themed and Oda likes to design characters that fit into the arcs motif to fill out the world a little more. She's a white rabbit. He didn't have to do this but after 1000 chapters you should know how his brain works.

Reread WCI and you'd be shocked at how Carrot doesn't really do anything and never gets any sort of spotlight beyond that single scene revealing her Sulong form. She has no character development, weak motivations, and spends the majority of the arc bumming around with Chopper in a C plot. Being part of the online discourse surrounding her made her feel a lot more present than she actually was.

Carrot's not a bad character, she's one of the most memorable supporting characters in the series. Compare her to the likes of Aisa, Dalton, Kokoro or Camie and it's obvious why she has fans and merchandise. But the fact of the matter is that WCI was the first large scale naval arc in the series, a good half of it was on the open sea, and people read way too much into her "time on the Sunny" when that just happened to be the setting of the arc.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Carrot existed as a necessity.

- She filled a lot of action, fanservice and comic relief supporting roles in Whole Cake Island to fill the vacuum of missing straw hats.
- She was used to showcase the Sulong transformation, and to keep the minks relevant throughout WCI so the audience would give a shit about them in the raid.
- Pedro was specifically designed to die so if his will was going to be passed on to Neko and the rest of the tribe a second mink was required for an emotional throughline.
- The arc was Alice themed and Oda likes to design characters that fit into the arcs motif to fill out the world a little more. She's a white rabbit. He didn't have to do this but after 1000 chapters you should know how his brain works.

Reread WCI and you'd be shocked at how Carrot doesn't really do anything and never gets any sort of spotlight beyond that single scene revealing her Sulong form. She has no character development, weak motivations, and spends the majority of the arc bumming around with Chopper in a C plot. Being part of the online discourse surrounding her made her feel a lot more present than she actually was.

Carrot's not a bad character, she's one of the most memorable supporting characters in the series. Compare her to the likes of Aisa, Dalton, Kokoro or Camie and it's obvious why she has fans and merchandise. But the fact of the matter is that WCI was the first large scale naval arc in the series, a good half of it was on the open sea, and people read way too much into her "time on the Sunny" when that just happened to be the setting of the arc.

Carrot is nothing more than a plot device she has no actual character depth. It is all shallow.
If I was teaching a writing class, Carrot would be a case study on how not to write a main or even secondary character. A tertiary character if you will.

 

[Logiko]

You are not wrong in that there are some delusional, self-righteous and toxic misanthropes among the user base.
But what does this have to do with the nakama discussion?
The term "misogynist" could as well be used for anyone who dislikes Yamato.

To me it feels like you have an agenda and let this overshadow your understanding of the story.

The problem is not the disliking in itself. The problem comes with the way that disliking was portrayed in the past (i've seen anything problematic on the mysogynistic front today) It comes with the way people treats others people and those disliked characters both in term of action and language.

I do have an agenda: To make this forum a better place for Carrot fan and to make toxic people understand that random sluring is not okay.. because it leads toward mysoginy, racism, biggotery, transphobia etc.

In short, I don't want our fandom to become like the star wars 's fandom. Such a toxic thread, is the perfect place to explain that.

My understanding of the story is linked to all of that. The way the opposition works against my thoughts is a reflexion of that problem.

My reasonning concerning Carrot is cold as ice. It feels like something out of a fan mind because it's dense. But the reasonning (when you really try to understand it) is base only on pure narrative logic. The logic might lead to false results, but the reasonning in itself can't be more objective.

 

[Ravagerblade]

The problem is not the disliking in itself. The problem comes with the way that disliking was portrayed in the past (i've seen anything problematic on the mysogynistic front today) It comes with the way people treats others people and those disliked characters both in term of action and language.

I do have an agenda: To make this forum a better place for Carrot fan and to make toxic people understand that random sluring is not okay.. because it leads toward mysoginy, racism, biggotery, transphobia etc.

In short, I don't want our fandom to become like the star wars 's fandom. Such a toxic thread, is the perfect place to explain that.

My understanding of the story is linked to all of that. The way the opposition works against my thoughts is a reflexion of that problem.

My reasonning concerning Carrot is cold as ice. It feels like something out of a fan mind because it's dense. But the reasonning (when you really try to understand it) is base only on pure narrative logic. The logic might lead to false results, but the reasonning in itself can't be more objective.

Why do you crusade? It's not your Job. You are creating toxicity just by doing so.
Good job buttercup.

 

[Logiko]

And you are basing this all on your emotions and not any logical facts.

Those ARE logical facts. It's Narrative Logic. Pure and cold.

The power of one sentence over another is not a matter of taste, it's a matter of coherence with the specificities of the story.

Carrot is nothing more than a plot device she has no actual character depth. It is all shallow.
If I was teaching a writing class, Carrot would be a case study on how not to write a main or even secondary character.

There is no such thing as "plot device". Everything is a plot device in a story. That term was invented by those who does not understand how a story is crafted to diminish the impact of a scene they don't like.

Carrot do have cahracter depth. That's factual. But like everything in One Piece, it's not obvious. Oda makes you look for it. It('s not just a children's book.

She filled a lot of action, fanservice and comic relief supporting roles in Whole Cake Island to fill the vacuum of missing straw hats.

It was not a narrative necessity.

- She was used to showcase the Sulong transformation, and to keep the minks relevant throughout WCI so the audience would give a shit about them in the raid.

It was not a narrative necessity to bring Carrot for that. The sulong could ve easily be written for Pekom or Pedro.

- Pedro was specifically designed to die so if his will was going to be passed on to Neko and the rest of the tribe a second mink was required for an emotional throughline.

No, it was not necessary. The will could ve been passed on without a second mink (just with the strawhat and a little dialogue)

- The arc was Alice themed and Oda likes to design characters that fit into the arcs motif to fill out the world a little more. She's a white rabbit. He didn't have to do this but after 1000 chapters you should know how his brain works.

There is already Randolph to fit that role. Thinking that an author like Oda would lose hours of drawing just to help a theme when he already has it underway with another cahracter is laughable. In fact, Oda couldve EASILY use Nami to play the role of Alice. Luffy or even Chopper in that instance (in a cool way it would be possible) He choosed to design an entire character with a complete lore and personnality for something that what (at first glance) non necessary.

Reread WCI and you'd be shocked at how Carrot doesn't really do anything and never gets any sort of spotlight beyond that single scene revealing her Sulong form. She has no character development, weak motivations, and spends the majority of the arc bumming around with Chopper in a C plot. Being part of the online discourse surrounding her made her feel a lot more present than she actually was.

1. You might not knows that, but Carrot comes in 7th place in term of panel in whole cake with 465+ panels.
2. Carrot DO have a character development during whole cake (reread the arc for Oda's sake)
3. Carrot DO have a strong motication to be present

Her presence in the online discourse does not come out of nowhere. here presence in the 8th place of the poll does not come out of nowhere. Her fanbase doesn't come from nowhere. Her place is perfectly LOGICAL.

Everything here is the result of choices Oda made during whole cake. ODD choices that made Carrot looks like a strawhat WHILE being a support arc character.

 

[Outlaw]

Y'all still think Yamato joins?
Imo possibility is dwindling with err chapter.
*Fact that she seems to be paired with Momo throughout this arc is not really a good sign as most of development she is getting is with Momo.
*Then there's the DF theory which also got proven recently with "Nika"

• 1 10 - Hito Hito
  43 = Yomi Yomi
• 56 = Gomu Gomu
• 87 = Hana Hana
• 29 = Nika

*There's also the fact that she has the "Okuchi no Makami" which is the Guardian Diety of Wano. In addition to the fact that she's still yet to do anything to justify that title.
*Then there was that one panel a few chaps ago, where Yamato had this worried/concerned look on her face when Momo said he was scared of opening up Wano's borders as he didn't wanna expose the Wano people to danger which does make sense as if Wano do open their borders right now, are the Samurai by themselves strong enough to fend them off? Whole reason why Wano was taken over by Kaido and Orochi was bcoz Oden wasn't around. So what's stopping someone else from taking it over after Kaido is defeated and Wano open up their borders? Imo they'd once again be in need of someone powerful enough to fend off outside forces and Yamato I think will take up that role at the end of the arc.

Fyi, I'm a carrot-fan and would love her to join the crew but her chances are not really looking great either
*Basically this isn't a Yamato diss, don't really care if she joins at this point. Just saying how tings look to me atm.

Nika wouldn't be under 29.

Its the Hito Hito no Mi Model Nika

Luffys Fruit is 110, same as chopper.

The numbers theory was always dumb along with the fact Greg has already said Oda isn't doing Numbers Theory

The rest of the post is dumb nonsense.

Who the hell? A younger bro?

Pretty sure there another one of the twitter followers right here:
https://twitter.com/CarrotMugi

 

[Logiko]

Why do you crusade? It's not your Job. You are creating toxicity just by doing so.
Good job buttercup.

Basically saying thatI'm creating toxicity because I call out toxicity..
Quite a twisting way to see things.. strangely this was the reason the mods used to ban me lol

 

[Animangaboy]

guess Luffy was also training Momo a little. Thing is.. Yamato will be the most well placed to help him fullfil his potential when Luffy will be gone

She won't be placed because kinemon and the scabbards are alive and well so try again 😭

 

[Logiko]

She won't be placed because kinemon and the scabbards are alive and well so try again 😭

Try again what ? The logic is simple, even for you:

The scabbard didn't train against Kaido
Yamato trained against Kaido

Therefore > Yamato has the most knowledge about the capacities of a Dragon

Yamato is therefore the best placed to help Momo control his powers. Period.

 

[Animangaboy]

There's also the fact that she has the "Okuchi no Makami" which is the Guardian Diety of Wano. In addition to the fact that she's still yet to do anything to justify that title.

Idk why y'all kept bringing up her devil fruit as she knows what it was before ate it 😩, Momo has one of the strongest mythical zoan devil fruit but y'all worry about Yamato's little ice devil fruit 😂😂 also the same Yamato with the devil fruit say that she will leave Wano 🙃.

 

[Peenix]

It was not a narrative necessity.

It wasn't NECESSARY, but WCI would've felt a lot more stale if the crew didn't have anyone to bounce off of. That's why Carrot was there

It was not a narrative necessity to bring Carrot for that. The sulong could ve easily be written for Pekom or Pedro.

It had to be A mink and she was the best option to choose from. Pedro was dead and Pekoms wasn't with the crew.

No, it was not necessary. The will could ve been passed on without a second mink (just with the strawhat and a little dialogue)

Then Pedro's death would have lacked impact

There is already Randolph to fit that role. Thinking that an author like Oda would lose hours of drawing just to help a theme when he already has it underway with another cahracter is laughable. In fact, Oda couldve EASILY use Nami to play the role of Alice. Luffy or even Chopper in that instance (in a cool way it would be possible) He choosed to design an entire character with a complete lore and personnality for something that what (at first glance) non necessary.

1. Randolph was a one-and-done baddie who wouldn't have stayed with the crew
2. Nami's dress was arguably pretty akin to Alice

Hell, Big Mom's whole aesthetic was "Queen of Hearts"

1. You might not knows that, but Carrot comes in 7th place in term of panel in whole cake with 465+ panels.
2. Carrot DO have a character development during whole cake (reread the arc for Oda's sake)
3. Carrot DO have a strong motication to be present

1. Yes and the 49th place in Wano
2. There was Pedro's death and all, but there really wasn't anywhere for her to grow from there. Compare that to any of the Strawhats in their arcs before they joined.
3. She was there mainly cause she thought it was fun.

Her presence in the online discourse does not come out of nowhere. here presence in the 8th place of the poll does not come out of nowhere. Her fanbase doesn't come from nowhere. Her place is perfectly LOGICAL.

There were a lot of people during Dressrosa who thought that Monet was actually alive and would join the crew. There are still blogs floating around the internet dedicated to this btw
Did Monet turn out to be important?

 

[Ballel]

The problem is not the disliking in itself. The problem comes with the way that disliking was portrayed in the past (i've seen anything problematic on the mysogynistic front today) It comes with the way people treats others people and those disliked characters both in term of action and language.

I do have an agenda: To make this forum a better place for Carrot fan and to make toxic people understand that random sluring is not okay.. because it leads toward mysoginy, racism, biggotery, transphobia etc.

In short, I don't want our fandom to become like the star wars 's fandom. Such a toxic thread, is the perfect place to explain that.

My understanding of the story is linked to all of that. The way the opposition works against my thoughts is a reflexion of that problem.

My reasonning concerning Carrot is cold as ice. It feels like something out of a fan mind because it's dense. But the reasonning (when you really try to understand it) is base only on pure narrative logic. The logic might lead to false results, but the reasonning in itself can't be more objective.

I'm neither a misogynist nor a transphobe and the reason Carrot won't join is that she has lost any relevance in the story. Thos talk about subversive writing make no sense.