General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Visa]

My point is Carrot would have been in that spread if she was going to be a Strawhat, regardless of the fact she hasn't joined yet.



Act Three has literally spelt out that the Dawn is the opening of Wano's borders. Like four chapters ago Kine'mon said the Dawn would rise over Wano because that's what the Scabbards promised Oden they would do.

Roger didn't do it because Roger was dying, knew full well it was too early and Oden said that he and his samurai were the ones who would do it.

The Dawn is related to the opening of Wano's borders, but it won't be resolved simply by that. The reason Roger had to wait was because there were other things that they needed to occur first. Opening Wano's borders is one step closer to that goal due to the information they found out on Raftel. With what the Kozuki Clan had to close off the country, it was Oden's goal on to open up the country's borders so that when the day comes, the country of Wano will be ready to welcome the next "Joy Boy" and help usher in the new Dawn.

As I said, Pedro was already aware of the "Dawn" and tried to sail with Roger as a kid before he died. Neko and Inu weren't there, they went back to Wano to take care of Toki so that Oden could focus and continue his journey without worry. They gave the Roger Pirates a letter of introduction to the Duke at the time and he showed them the Road Poneglyph, which helped Oden gather what he needed to help lead Roger to Raftel/Laugh Tale.

The exact nature of the Minks relationship with the Kozuki Clan is very vague and we don't exactly know why they harbor the Road Poneglyphs, but that is another topic for another day.

EDIT: And the point dizzy brought up was that there have been double spreads in the past with soon to be Straw Hats that haven't been featured, so this is hardly something to nag on.

 

[Garp the Fist]

The Dawn is related to the opening of Wano's borders, but it won't be resolved simply by that.

Toki's last words says otherwise. This is the night twenty years in the making, where the nine shadows- including the two Minks- bring in the Dawn.

The reason Roger had to wait was because there were other things that they needed to occur first.

And those things have occurred now. Luffy and Shirahoshi are born and grown, which they weren't in Roger's lifetime.

Opening Wano's borders is one step closer to that goal due to the information they found out on Raftel.

It's not "one step closer", it's the end goal. Centuries of waiting for the moment that the Dawn rises over Wano and it reopens its borders to the world.

With what the Kozuki Clan had to close off the country, it was Oden's goal on to open up the country's borders so that when the day comes, the country of Wano will be ready to welcome the next "Joy Boy" and help usher in the new Dawn.

You've got the order wrong. The Dawn is not the endgame for the series. It's the endgame for Wano specifically, which heralds the beginning of the endgame, the centuries closed country and ally of the Ancient Kingdom coming back into the global sphere. After which it can prepare to help Luffy in the endgame.

As I said, Pedro was already aware of the "Dawn" and tried to sail with Roger as a kid before he died.

Nope. Pedro just asks Roger if he can come along with him. No mention of the Dawn, it's only until he's an adult and he's sailing trying to find Poneglyphs for Neko that the Dawn is mentioned.

The exact nature of the Minks relationship with the Kozuki Clan is very vague and we don't exactly know why they harbor the Road Poneglyphs, but that is another topic for another day.

It is, but the way Oda has presented it thus far has the Minks are lesser partners to the Kozuki. And thus it once again comes right back to round to even if you are right about the Dawn being something that isn't accomplished here, despite all the evidence to the contrary, very little suggests Carrot would be the one to do it when Kine'mon and Oden are vastly more important to the series, and the Dawn, than her and Pedro have been.

 

[dizzy2341]

Don't think there's much point continuing over the double spread. I think it continues the pattern of Carrot being continually unimportant and not Strawhat material, you guys think it's just a sign that she isn't a Strawhat yet, fair enough. Long as you are both honest enough to admit had she been in the spread, you guys would be all over this thread claiming it was undeniable proof that she was joining. And, to be fair, I'd probably be pointing at Pappug in Fishman Island and saying "Nuh uh, means nothing."

Yeah, this is fair. And yep, I can tell you now that I would never shut up if she was in that spread, lmao. But as I also said, I don't think her absence from it spells doom either, so we can agree to leave it at that.

For Carrot vs Perospero

I don't think it will happen any time soon- you'd expect it to happen where she could use her big special trump card of Su Long. And whatever is happening with Marco needs resolved first. So Wanda (and Neko and the other Guardians) could still be involved in it, because there should still be some pieces being moved to get it started.

I'd also be very, very surprised if Carrot actually beats Perospero, because I don't think Oda brought him as the only BM Pirate and with a grudge against Marco and King just to be beaten by Carrot.

Makes sense.

The other big memes have a grudge against Marco and King too. But Perospero's the only one with a personal connection to Carrot since he's responsible for her mentor's death. Makes sense for him to be specifically brought for that purpose. Otherwise he could've brought the rest of them too.
---------------
And yeah, as @Visa said, it's unlikely that the dawn plot will be 100% resolved in Wano. This is what Pedro said in WCI:

When he was speaking about the dawn, he was thinking about things that the straw hats would do after they defeated Kaido and Wano was liberated. What Pedro envisions to be the dawn still involves something to be done after Kaido's all done and out of the way. The Kozuki and scabbards are going to be the ones to open the borders of Wano, but as we all know, the straw hats are the dawn bringers, so there is something else. Something bigger. There's no way that this prophecy that's stretched over centuries can be something as underwhelming as defeating Kaido,

My guess is that Wano will end on a shocking realisation. Carrot, just as Pedro said she would, will finally understand the true importance of the straw hats' journey, and what they must do. Wano's dawn will represent the beginning of the dawn of the whole world. It will be a trigger for the final phase of the story.

Wano was closed to protect it from a "great external power". Most likely the WG. And then there's this:

It seems the purpose of opening Wano's borders is to facilitate working with Luffy and the straw hats in order to achieve something huge. There's no way that huge thing can be something as simple as defeating Kaido. Something that's already happened 7 times. Most likely they're referring to aiding in the war against the WG.

In that sense, dawn can be recognised as freedom and liberation from darkness. Dawn comes to Wano as they are free from Kaido, and that then leads to the dawn of the entire world as Wano with its borders open, greatly aids the straw hats in world liberation and actively deciding to fight back against the WG.

 

[Prochief]

As soon as I understand Pedro, the straw hats must change the world in order to guide it into a new dawn. Pedro himself said that the straw hats will change the world and will lead it in a new dawn, which is why I doubt that the dawn that comes to wano will change the world. At most it will change wano but certainly not bring the world into a new age. That's why I don't think the dawn of the world and opening the borders of wano are the same.

Somehow Carrot has to understand why the straw hats are the ones that will bring dawn of the world. After all, there has to be a moment and since the opening of the borders of wano has to do with the dawn coming to wano, I think it will be the moment for her when she understands why the straw hats are so important to be convinced that they are who will bring dawn of the world.

 

[Garp the Fist]

There's no way that this prophecy that's stretched over centuries can be something as underwhelming as defeating Kaido,

Underwhelming? Beating Kaido is the biggest thing that has happened in the series thus far and is the sign that Luffy is a great pirate and can meet Shanks, what we've been waiting for since chapter 1. It changes something that has been in place eight hundred years and brings Wano back into the world. It heralds the beginning of the end for the series. It is the opening blow in the final war- hence Dawn, a beginning. Also some Land of the Rising Sun imagery- Dawn is sunrise, Wano is OP Japan. It's also notable this fight is happening at night- expect the final blow on Kaido to be struck... at dawn.

I really don't see any argument against this. Kin'emon said "we are going to bring the Dawn like we promised our lord" (paraphrasing). "We" including Inu and Neko, the ones whom Pedro was talking about. The only thing they've promised their lord is to open their borders. Which ties in to Toki's last words. All these plot threads, the Kozuki, the Scabbards, the Minks, the people they've fought against, are getting tied up here.

Yes, we need to find out why the Dawn (opening Wano) is so important, but there's nothing to suggest that the Dawn isn't opening the borders.

 

[bennbeckman]

Luffy's gonna have a massive grandfleet after Wano... it's guranteed

 

[Visa]

Toki's last words says otherwise. This is the night twenty years in the making, where the nine shadows- including the two Minks- bring in the Dawn.


And those things have occurred now. Luffy and Shirahoshi are born and grown, which they weren't in Roger's lifetime.


It's not "one step closer", it's the end goal. Centuries of waiting for the moment that the Dawn rises over Wano and it reopens its borders to the world.


You've got the order wrong. The Dawn is not the endgame for the series. It's the endgame for Wano specifically, which heralds the beginning of the endgame, the centuries closed country and ally of the Ancient Kingdom coming back into the global sphere. After which it can prepare to help Luffy in the endgame.


Nope. Pedro just asks Roger if he can come along with him. No mention of the Dawn, it's only until he's an adult and he's sailing trying to find Poneglyphs for Neko that the Dawn is mentioned.



It is, but the way Oda has presented it thus far has the Minks are lesser partners to the Kozuki. And thus it once again comes right back to round to even if you are right about the Dawn being something that isn't accomplished here, despite all the evidence to the contrary, very little suggests Carrot would be the one to do it when Kine'mon and Oden are vastly more important to the series, and the Dawn, than her and Pedro have been.

This is Toki's prophecy:

Spoiler

What you are interpreting from what both Toki reflects prior to her death and what Denjiro says is that opening Wano's borders IS the Dawn when really, its just something that is more something that initiates it into action. The Dawn of the World is something that has since been mentioned to have global implications. Why the Kozuki Clan felt the need 800 years ago to shut their country off till the return of Joy Boy to aid him is something that is a process in action rather than a result.

Reinforced by Oden while in the pot.

Spoiler

The external power that Oden is referring to is probably the World Government, since they didn't exist prior to the Void Century. It wasn't till AFTER whatever happened in the 100 year gap that the WG came to be. And Wano shut itself from the world till the return of Joy Boy. Whatever Luffy does, opening Wano is just phase 1 of actually leading credence to the Dawn being blown into fruition, not the end result of actually opening its borders.


EDIT: The Dawn is just very vague in general, which is why I said we'll get more substance out of it once the arc concludes. It won't be resolved by the arc's conclusion, but it will be one step closer since opening Wano's borders means apparently something huge since there is a reason the country decided to not be bothered by the World Government. My speculation is once that becomes more tangible, a clearer goal will be in sight for a certain someone. Which is why I stressed the importance of why the Minks relationship with the Kozuki Clan needs to be addressed at some point, since even Oden was surprised that they were "brothers" with the race.

 

[dizzy2341]

Watch this vid in full if you've got time. After seeing the points raised I don't see how anyone could argue that the dawn plot will get completely resolved in Wano. Morj explains it better than I ever could.

Underwhelming? Beating Kaido is the biggest thing that has happened in the series thus far and is the sign that Luffy is a great pirate and can meet Shanks, what we've been waiting for since chapter 1.

I say underwhelming in the context of the 800 year prophecy. Obviously it's something huge for the straw hats and the readers. But for something the entire world has been waiting centuries for, to be primarily be just to defeat Kaido? Yes, that is underwhelming. And Kaido's already been defeated 7 times. Defeating him an 8th isn't fit to be a world breaking payoff that centuries of people have been waiting for in itself. However, it is going to lead to an event that is.

It is the opening blow in the final war- hence Dawn, a beginning. Also some Land of the Rising Sun imagery- Dawn is sunrise, Wano is OP Japan. It's also notable this fight is happening at night- expect the final blow on Kaido to be struck... at dawn.

I agree the dawn of Wano will be achieved this arc, but not the dawn of the entire world. The reason I think the overarching theme of the series is being so heavily focused on now is because this will be the moment in which their mission will finally be explicitly understood, which was foreshadowed by Pedro's final words to Carrot.

I really don't see any argument against this. Kin'emon said "we are going to bring the Dawn like we promised our lord" (paraphrasing). "We" including Inu and Neko, the ones whom Pedro was talking about. The only thing they've promised their lord is to open their borders. Which ties in to Toki's last words. All these plot threads, the Kozuki, the Scabbards, the Minks, the people they've fought against, are getting tied up here.

Kin emon specifically says that they'll bring dawn to WANO. Not the world. And I agree with that. They will bring dawn to Wano. But that is not the same as the entire world.

If the whole plot is getting tied up here, then why does Pedro ask about what the crew will do AFTER Wano?

Yes, we need to find out why the Dawn (opening Wano) is so important, but there's nothing to suggest that the Dawn isn't opening the borders.

Oden just before his execution stated that he still had to open Wano's borders. Why would he say that if he knew that dawn wouldn't be brought by him, but that it would be brought 20 years in the future?

 

[Kurodiamondo]

Dawn in toki prophecy is luffy

Dawn is the new beginning
I guess dawn for wano and for world is something different

Wano need a new beginning by opening wano
The world also need a new beginning too by changing it

 

[San Te]

Garp the fist's avatar reminds me of when Tama fed Luffy rice.

 

[Walreyn]

I think Carrot stocks rose a little. She was there the whole time next to Nami. The only non-strawhat character. I suspect Oda didn't want to show her in the last page because she's not official. She'll definitely be part of the fight next chapter.

Yep she'll be a member of nami pirates lol hehe

 

[vikas]

Watch this vid in full if you've got time. After seeing the points raised I don't see how anyone could argue that the dawn plot will get completely resolved in Wano. Morj explains it better than I ever could.

I don't thinkk it has anything much to do with carrot though. The dawn is something...which WB predicts too which would happen when one piece is found etc... it has connection with wano too...i.e. wano's dark times will end and a new dawn will rise(open borders etc) so yeah wano probably is a necessaoty with the "world's dawn" being achieved something which is EOS stuff. SHs are the main characters who will be involved in it. Which is what Pedro beieves too.

 

[dizzy2341]

I don't thinkk it has anything much to do with carrot though. The dawn is something...which WB predicts too which would happen when one piece is found etc... it has connection with wano too...i.e. wano's dark times will end and a new dawn will rise(open borders etc) so yeah wano probably is a necessaoty with the "world's dawn" being achieved something which is EOS stuff. SHs are the main characters who will be involved in it. Which is what Pedro beieves too.

That's another reference I forgot about. Whilst WB doesn't explicitly call it the dawn, it's very clear that they're all talking about the same thing.

Spoiler

With that in mind, the true meaning of the dawn is practically spelt out. After challenging and beating the world government, the dawn of a new age will appear. In other words, 100% EoS stuff we're talking about.

And about what this has to do with Carrot, it's simple. In current time, Pedro's the character that's had the most focus relating to the dawn. It's what his entire character was about. Whilst it's relevant to other character's too, Pedro was the one truly driving the plot.

And with Pedro now dead, and him being Carrot's mentor, with his final words telling Carrot that one day she too will understand the true importance of Luffy and the SHP's journey, then the setup is there for Carrot to strive for the same thing her mentor did. She doesn't fully understand at the moment, but we know that one day she will. And when she does, she'll likely want to help even more. The straw hats being her close friends, but also to see out the will of her mentor and his desire for dawn to come.

Pedro laid the foundation for the dawn. Now it's the turn of his student to inherit his will and see that the dawn is realised. And people often forget that Pedro wanted to join Roger's crew but was too young at the time.

Inherited will is about picking up where others left off. Taking their desires and fulfilling them, or even furthering their will by taking it to the next step. In this sense, Carrot joining the future PK's ship and helping bring in the dawn that her mentor helped setup and longed for would make a lot of sense.

 

[KenshiraSonata]

That's another reference I forgot about. Whilst WB doesn't explicitly call it the dawn, it's very clear that they're all talking about the same thing.

Spoiler

With that in mind, the true meaning of the dawn is practically spelt out. After challenging and beating the world government, the dawn of a new age will appear. In other words, 100% EoS stuff we're talking about.

And about what this has to do with Carrot, it's simple. In current time, Pedro's the character that's had the most focus relating to the dawn. It's what his entire character was about. Whilst it's relevant to other character's too, Pedro was the one truly driving the plot.

And with Pedro now dead, and him being Carrot's mentor, with his final words telling Carrot that one day she too will understand the true importance of Luffy and the SHP's journey, then the setup is there for Carrot to strive for the same thing her mentor did. She doesn't fully understand at the moment, but we know that one day she will. And when she does, she'll likely want to help even more. The straw hats being her close friends, but also to see out the will of her mentor and his desire for dawn to come.

Pedro laid the foundation for the dawn. Now it's the turn of his student to inherit his will and see that the dawn is realised. And people often forget that Pedro wanted to join Roger's crew but was too young at the time.

Inherited will is about picking up where others left off. Taking their desires and fulfilling them, or even furthering their will by taking it to the next step. In this sense, Carrot joining the future PK's ship and helping bring in the dawn that her mentor helped setup and longed for would make a lot of sense.

Dude, you and the whole carrotardic bunny lover, should realize one thing. your entire argument is dependent on an assumption that Pedro is dead, which many wont agree in the forum. Lastly, every SH has their own dream and an inherited will. Carrot has neither and you carrotards are arguing that she WILL one day inherit his will and WILL start dreaming about a dream., which ain't gonna happen.

 

[Nibel]

Dude, you and the whole carrotardic bunny lover, should realize one thing. your entire argument is dependent on an assumption that Pedro is dead, which many wont agree in the forum. Lastly, every SH has their own dream and an inherited will. Carrot has neither and you carrotards are arguing that she WILL one day inherit his will and WILL start dreaming about a dream., which ain't gonna happen.

That's called character development. Stop calling'em "carrotards" they think what they want. Don't need to be that disrespectful.

 

[KenshiraSonata]

That's called character development. Stop calling'em "carrotards" they think what they want. Don't need to be that disrespectful.

Sorry but I am not seeing any such development

 

[KenshiraSonata]

Imagine getting this riled up over a comic aimed at children?? I hope for your sake that you're just a kid that's only recently discovered the "thrill" of the internet, otherwise I'd be very concerned that this is how you're spending your time. Your Sunday afternoon hurling insults at strangers on the internet because they were engaging in a peaceful debate and someone made an argument that you didn't agree with. Pretty sad existence don't you think?

Sorry if I offended u but didn't mean to

 

[Kurodiamondo]

Here's my opinion about several candidates

Carrot
I admit she is good fighter and has some time with crew. She is not exist in official SH panel, but only when jinbe comeback. It's understandable because she's not SH at the moment but she was there when jinbe left. Right now at the wano mainland she did not get so many panel with SHs but shinobu did. As if carrot and shinobu share some panel time. It's make her character only a bit better from shinobu

Carrot dream is only sailing to the sea. Not good enough for the near end story. She did not inherit pedro dream about dawn, only make sure SHs crew leave Tottoland territory. About her FB, she only remembering pedro and stop there. She has not mentioned the dawn thing

Yamato
she is a fighter, son of kaido who obsessively adore oden. Hard to judge her when she only has a little chapter. Not exist in official SHs spread. Only close with luffy and has no interaction with other SHs

judging her oden cosplaying thing, she wants to open wano but her dad handcuff her so that she don't leave onigashima. She has oden journal. I don't think luffy will need that but could be useful for momo. who knows?

Years later she met ace. She wanted to go to the sea with ace. Intepretation : she really want to go out with ace OR she just wanted to leave onigashima. I think the latter because she want to open wano. Even if she go with ace as his crew and become stronger, she will comeback to open wano

Now, after wano opened, it's a different thing. Who knows what she want after that. She could sail with luffy or she will protect what dearest to oden. Last chapter, she blushingly wants to protect momo

Momo
he is good enough to become a shogun, because he is already accepted by citizen (retainer and udon prisoner) and got a lot of character development. Wano need a shogun, good option is momo. Yamato won't be shogun. Hiyori is momo younger sister so she wont take the position if momo is still alive unless momo is okay with that. Moreover, momo got no business to join luffy



Carrot and yamato are not good enough to be crew member at the moment. They only have weak point to make them join the crew. But I will reconsider them if they get some progression

 

[Visa]

Dude, you and the whole carrotardic bunny lover, should realize one thing. your entire argument is dependent on an assumption that Pedro is dead, which many wont agree in the forum. Lastly, every SH has their own dream and an inherited will. Carrot has neither and you carrotards are arguing that she WILL one day inherit his will and WILL start dreaming about a dream., which ain't gonna happen.

I mean, if that's the case, what would "narratively" be the point of telling Carrot she would understand if Oda would bring Pedro back into the story and making her understanding unnecessary if he was going to survive? As I said, he didn't need to tell her anything at all and having an internal monologue would have had a similar effect.

So yeah, bringing back Pedro, especially now this far into Wano, is not even possible. You could have made a few cases a few chapters after he exploded, near the end of WCI, near the beginning of Wano, or even when Neko arrived with the rest of the Guardians. At this point however, it's not possible to see him return since he had served his role in the narrative and his posthumous chapter explored his motivations and closed his story. I know that sucks for you as a Pedro fan, but I don't think Oda is playing the long game with a guy that had years of his life stripped and knew he would die soon and wouldn't have too much time left.

Carrot one day understanding the importance of the Straw Hat crew and the Dawn is not made-up, its literally written in the story at the conclusion of chapter 877. What we say what she'll do with it is speculation, but its founded on logic that will inevitably occur.

 

[Kurodiamondo]

I mean, if that's the case, what would "narratively" be the point of telling Carrot she would understand if Oda would bring Pedro back into the story and making her understanding unnecessary if he was going to survive? As I said, he didn't need to tell her anything at all and having an internal monologue would have had a similar effect.

So yeah, bringing back Pedro, especially now this far into Wano, is not even possible. You could have made a few cases a few chapters after he exploded, near the end of WCI, near the beginning of Wano, or even when Neko arrived with the rest of the Guardians. At this point however, it's not possible to see him return since he had served his role in the narrative and his posthumous chapter explored his motivations and closed his story.

Pedro didn't have to comeback right away when he can't
He may comeback anytime, even if it's mean the last moment

Spoiler